A German military rank question.

[FIREWALL]

To all my knowledgeable members.

Does a Colonel in the S.S. rank higher than a Colonel in the regular German army ?

How about Gestapo ?

Depending on answer I may have another question.:yep:

[Morts]

great, my book about SS is at another house:damn:
it has a comparison of SS and regular german ranks

[Skybird]

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waffen-SS#Dienstgrade

At the bottom. Look for "Oberst", that usually equals a Colonel. As you see, they had no "Colonels" in the Waffen-SS, nor did the SS use the same ranks like the Wehrmacht. A Wehrmacht-Colonel would be an Oberst, his SS-pendant would be an SS-Standartenführer.

note the article says that different to the Wehrmacht, where higher ranks had to be earned by accoprding service, promotions and ranks in the SS not nessecarily were expression of proven competence based on past performance.

BTW, functionaries of the Nsdap appearing in their typical light-brown opera uniforms with their many toy medals in public, often were derogatorily nicknamed "Goldfasan" by the ordinary people, that means "golden pheasant".

[FIREWALL]

Thx Morts and Skybird :salute:

Skybird I edited my post if you could look at it and give me a fast answer it would be appreciated.

Which of the two would make a regular army colonal shake in his boots ?

[Skybird]

Don't get your question. What do you mean?

[FIREWALL]

Who of the three is the most powerful at the rank of Colonel ?

AND the other two would fear.

[Kongo Otto]

Who of the three is the most powerful at the rank of Colonel ?

AND the other two would fear.

Nobody would fear the Gestapo Guy because the Gestapo, couldnt do anything against active Service Personal.
Those Gestapo Crooks, weren´t feared by the Army Members,but by the German Civilians.
There is also no Difference in Power between a Waffen-SS and a Wehrmacht Officer.
There were Wehrmacht Officers commanding Units including Waffen-SS and vice versa.
As an Example:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Hausser

[A Very Super Market]

Unless you were wearing a kippah, the gestapo can't touch active personnel

[FIREWALL]

Who was head of the Gestapo ?

And thx to all that have responded so far. :salute:

[breadcatcher101]

Heinrich Muller was the boss, kinda a German version of J. Edgar Hoover--but much worse! Many thought Himmler was, but no.

[Chad]

If your trying to throw me out of power, I'll have you shot..

Just kidding, now i know where i stand :ping:

[FIREWALL]

If your trying to throw me out of power, I'll have you shot..

Just kidding, now i know where i stand :ping:


No, :nope: I know where I stand :yep:

[A Very Super Market]

YOU MEAN YOU KNOW YOU'RE A WEREWOLF WITH THIS ATTEMPT TO BE NONCHALANT :stare:

[FIREWALL]

YOU MEAN YOU KNOW YOU'RE A WEREWOLF WITH THIS ATTEMPT TO BE NONCHALANT :stare:

No , In the GAME I may be more DEADLY as a human if my real identity is revealed.

As Neal said ... Surprises and Twists in the game.:shifty:

[AntEater]

No regular army officer had anything to fear from SS people until 20th July of 1944.
As a reaction to the coup attempt, Hitler pretty much copied stalin's system.

US Nazi films often mix a lot of things. The SS was no KGB.
The Gestapo was, weird as it sounds, Police. It had no jurisdiction over the military.
Back then, the military had its own jurisdiction with its own criminal code.
Gestapo was responsible for prosecuting political dissenters among the civilian population.
Its a safe bet that before 1944, no military officer was ever arrested by Gestapo.
After that, a lot were.
The Police was subordinate to SS, this resulted in a lot of mixing like police officers taking part in attrocities and serving in Waffen-SS field divisions.
An old police officer I know had his police basic training in the 1950s and it was basically an antipartisan course by former Waffen-SS people.
To add to the confusion, the military police was not military, but normal police, but NOT subordinate to the SS.
Unlike today's Feldjäger (which are officially soldiers) Feldgendarmerie officers were seconded to the military, but remained police. The SS couldn't give them any orders.

The Waffen-SS itself was a mixed lot. You basically had three roots.
The pre-war Verfügungstruppe, which was basically a military experiment to raise a model force, done by former military officers scorned for their radical ideas (Hausser and Steiner). They wanted to create a ideal military force by a radical break from traditional prussian military traditions, instead drawing on trench comradeship, revolutionary fervor and freikorps spirit, using small unit infiltration tactics.
A sign of that was that in the Waffen-SS, it was not "Herr Scharführer" (or other rank) but simply "Scharführer" without the Herr. There was to be no class distinction between officers and enlisted.
This does not mean the Verfügungstruppe people were not ardent nazis, they just took the revolutionary side of the nazi party more seriously than the rest.
The second root was Hitler's personal bodyguard.
The third were the "Totenkopf" standards, the base units for the concentration camp guards.
These three existed as seperate entities before the war, but blurred together as the war progressed.

Generally, the SS was relatively unimportant in military matters until about 1942.
Before that, the SS was the police, so it had importance for civilians, and it also ran its parallel empire in Czechoslovakia, but the first place in the state was still occupied by the military.

[OneToughHerring]

A related question, who were those folks who in the film Untergang and probably in real life too went around during the Battle of Berlin shouting "Ordnung!" and hanging people? Like a quasi-military police or something? Was that the Volkssturm?

[UnderseaLcpl]

No regular army officer had anything to fear from SS people until 20th July of 1944.
As a reaction to the coup attempt, Hitler pretty much copied stalin's system.

US Nazi films often mix a lot of things. The SS was no KGB.
The Gestapo was, weird as it sounds, Police. It had no jurisdiction over the military.
Back then, the military had its own jurisdiction with its own criminal code.
Gestapo was responsible for prosecuting political dissenters among the civilian population.
Its a safe bet that before 1944, no military officer was ever arrested by Gestapo.
After that, a lot were.
The Police was subordinate to SS, this resulted in a lot of mixing like police officers taking part in attrocities and serving in Waffen-SS field divisions.
An old police officer I know had his police basic training in the 1950s and it was basically an antipartisan course by former Waffen-SS people.
To add to the confusion, the military police was not military, but normal police, but NOT subordinate to the SS.
Unlike today's Feldjäger (which are officially soldiers) Feldgendarmerie officers were seconded to the military, but remained police. The SS couldn't give them any orders.

The Waffen-SS itself was a mixed lot. You basically had three roots.
The pre-war Verfügungstruppe, which was basically a military experiment to raise a model force, done by former military officers scorned for their radical ideas (Hausser and Steiner). They wanted to create a ideal military force by a radical break from traditional prussian military traditions, instead drawing on trench comradeship, revolutionary fervor and freikorps spirit, using small unit infiltration tactics.
A sign of that was that in the Waffen-SS, it was not "Herr Scharführer" (or other rank) but simply "Scharführer" without the Herr. There was to be no class distinction between officers and enlisted.
This does not mean the Verfügungstruppe people were not ardent nazis, they just took the revolutionary side of the nazi party more seriously than the rest.
The second root was Hitler's personal bodyguard.
The third were the "Totenkopf" standards, the base units for the concentration camp guards.
These three existed as seperate entities before the war, but blurred together as the war progressed.

Generally, the SS was relatively unimportant in military matters until about 1942.
Before that, the SS was the police, so it had importance for civilians, and it also ran its parallel empire in Czechoslovakia, but the first place in the state was still occupied by the military.

You just taught me something. Be proud:salute:

[kranz]

A related question, who were those folks who in the film Untergang and probably in real life too went around during the Battle of Berlin shouting "Ordnung!" and hanging people? Like a quasi-military police or something? Was that the Volkssturm?

they were the Greifkommando-and I guess it could be heard in the movie.
sth for start: http://www.panzergrenadier.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=965

Volkssturm appears only when Mohnke approaches MG and ask: Who are they?They are on our "schoss linien"(my german sux)

[AntEater]

Volkssturm was, as commonly known, a last resort army, made up mainly of men too old or otherwise unfit for military service.

Keeping in line with the third Reich's confusing "institutions", the Volkssturm was the responsibility of the respective Gauleiter.
So it was not a military, not even a SS, but rather a Nazi party "army", the very thing the regular army had fought to prevent for so long.
Even in late 1944 and with such bottom of the barrel recruits, there were severe restrictions on Volkssturm formations.
They could only be used in their respective Gau (administrative unit) and no unit above company size was allowed. Command was to be exercised by Army of Waffen-SS, but not by the Gauleiter.
There were exception to these rules and in east Prussia and Silesia (especially Breslau) there were battalion sized units, many of them quite equivalent to regular infantry units.
When order was breaking down in 1945, some Gauleiter raised quasi-private armies and basically did what they wanted with them.
Usually Volkssturm was abmysally equipped. The Panzerfaust, a rifle for every second man (mostly nonstandard or very old rifles), and no regular uniform, just a "Deutscher Volkssturm -Wehrmacht" badge to signify their combatant status.
Some also used the uniforms they had, mostly railway uniforms or WW1 leftovers.
There were some attempts to build cheap weapons for Volkssturm, but nothing came of it.
However, in the final days there were Volkssturm units with Flecktarn uniforms and MP44s, taken from army depots in the area.
In combat, these old and unfit men usually performed not very well and took high losses, but there were exceptions. The Panzerfaust was maybe one of the few true "wonder weapons" ever build as it enabled a raw recruit to take on a tank.
Many regular commanders, no matter if Waffen-SS or Wehrmacht used Volkssturm units as labour units or other secondary roles.
Combat usually occured when party officers had their say in it.
In the last days, many "fortress" cities were under nominal command of their party chiefs (like Berlin with Goebbels), and the "Goldfasane" usually sent the Volkssturm into fire no matter what.

[FIREWALL]

Thank You Anteater and all for a wealth of info. :salute:

As we all know " Hogans Heros " was a comedy spoof but,

from Generals on down everybody, was afraid of Gestapo Major Hockstieter. :haha:

[Schroeder]

I always thought he was with the SS. I mean he was dressed in a black uniform.:hmmm:

[Rhodes]

Thank You Anteater and all for a wealth of info. :salute:

As we all know " Hogans Heros " was a comedy spoof but,

from Generals on down everybody, was afraid of Gestapo Major Hockstieter. :haha:

Like Herr Flick, of the Gestapo! (sorry, couldn't find a decent photo)

[antikristuseke]

Lets not forger Von Smallhausen, he was feared too!:rotfl:

[Rhodes]

Lets not forger Von Smallhausen, he was feared too!:rotfl:


:haha: :haha: :haha:

[FIREWALL]

I always thought he was with the SS. I mean he was dressed in a black uniform.:hmmm:

I think he played both.:rotfl: Or he had a twin :har:

[OneToughHerring]

Thanks for the info Kranz, Anteater & co. I really hated those Greifkommando-types in that movie.