Fire Problem

[baggygreen]

Not a good couple of days for my southern neighbours in the state of victoria

Just north of melbourne has seen more than 700 homes destroyed, and whats worse, more than 65 people killed.

You northerners hear anything about it?

[FIREWALL]

Sorry to hear this. What happened ? How did it start ?

[August]

Sorry to hear this. What happened ? How did it start ?

Very dry and windy conditions from what i've been reading. Are you in any danger Baggy?

[Reece]

Yeh what a mess, poor bastards, seeing the news certainly brought tears to my eyes.:cry:

[TarJak]

A mate of mine and his family have lost their home last night in the fires around Marysville. Luckily they are all OK but I can't imagine the rebuilding process they are about to start.:o

I'm still trying to get hold of another good friend who lives near Bendigo who I've not been able to contact. I hope he and his family are all safe.

[Penelope_Grey]

I saw this on the news yesterday and thought to myself that it was a drastic state of affairs.... I am keeping my fingers crossed for the people down under.

[Reece]

I'm still trying to get hold of another good friend who lives near Bendigo who I've not been able to contact. I hope he and his family are all safe.My thoughts and prayers mate!:oops::yep:

[baggygreen]

Very dry and windy conditions from what i've been reading.
Not wrong... we had a thread a week or so about how there was a few days of temps over 100. Melbourne way ended up with a few of about 110+, as well as hot dry winds coming straight in off of the desert... Bound to happen somewhere. But thats the way this country is.. there've been massive bushfires every year for nearly a hundred thousand years if not more...

Are you in any danger Baggy?Not this time round mate, cheers for the concern. lived through the fire in Canberra in 2003, took out more than 500 homes in the capital city. This one's worse although not as large in terms of area, 700+ homes... lives....

I tell you, if it was an arsonist they oughta bring back burning at the stake when they catch him

[baggygreen]

I'm still trying to get hold of another good friend who lives near Bendigo who I've not been able to contact. I hope he and his family are all safe.Fingers crossed for ya mate. Dont worry too much, most mobile towers and phonelines have been, well from images i saw earlier, vapourised.

[TarJak]

I'm still trying to get hold of another good friend who lives near Bendigo who I've not been able to contact. I hope he and his family are all safe.My thoughts and prayers mate!:oops::yep:Cheers mate. It's been a terrible day down there with 76 now confirmed dead and the toll likely to rise as rescue and fire crews move into areas they have not been able to get to yet, making this disaster worse than Ash Wednesday in 1983.

[Schroeder]

Sorry to hear about all that. I think this is the highest death toll to bushfires that I can remember.:cry::nope:

[UnderseaLcpl]

I offer my hopes and prayers for the victims of this disaster. I feel a bit useless just doing that, though. I really wish that I had something else to contribute.

[JScones]

One of my employees (also a volunteer firey) is ready to board his truck and head down there now. Indeed, five of his colleagues have just left for Beechworth (as part of the 90 that the ACT have so far sent).

Hope they catch the b@stard(s) that lit some of the fires. :nope:

84 deaths now and still climbing.

Still waiting to hear back from friends in Doreen (near Hurstbridge); not sure if they're in the fire line.

[Kapt Z]

Wow, our TV has been out of action for a few days so this is the first I've even heard of it.

:nope:

[Konovalov]

Terrible news. Having experienced bush fires for myself back around Christmas/New Years 2002 at our property at Colo Heights (2 hours NW of Sydney centre) I know what it is like. However I do not know what it is like to loose your house or loved ones. Really depressing stuff. :cry:

Looking from afar over here in the UK I have seen many of the scenes and footage on BBC and Sky News. And from what I have seen I am not surprised by the high number of fatalities.

It looks like many people either weren't prepared or panicked and tried to escape the fires when it was too late. People need to make a clear decision. Either stay to protect your property or get out at least 24 hours before the fire comes through your area.

Secondly I have to question the bushfire preparedness of many of the residents in the areas effected. My father lives in Lancefield which is near to many of the areas in country Victoria that have been devastated by the bushfires. The last time I was home downunder we spent much time out on the golfcourses around these areas. I was amazed just how many of the houses and properties that were closely surrounded by lush gardens, dense vegetation, and overhanging gum trees. :damn: I remember Dad commenting that these peoples homes were ticking time bombs if we had a hot summer with those nasty strong northerly winds.

On the tv I have seen scenes of residents and homeowners fighting fires wearing synthetic clothing, in thongs (flip flops), shorts, and t-shirt. This is just plain crazy stuff. :nope: I would hasten to bet that many of these people are city slickers who have moved to these country areas as has been the trend in both Melbourne and Sydney. Perhaps the Country Fire Authority (CFA) should have been more proactive in providing advise to such newcomer residents.

The terrible fires that we experienced at Colo Heights, NSW in late 2002 were intense. I remember standing in the middle of one of the paddocks watching as the fire raged along our property fence line. Our property borders the Parr State Conservation Area which is rough and hilly Aussie bush coutry. That moment standing in the middle of the paddock was both awe inspiring and terrifying. The fire was racing through the canopy and at ground level consuming everything. And the heat radiated from it was immense. I was at least 75 to 100 metres away yet my eyebrowse were starting to singe from the intense heat. If only I could of told of my experience to the clowns wearing shorts, t-shirt and thongs. Back to our experience we were as best prepared as we could be and because of that all we lost was the perimeter property and some paddock fencing being about 6 kilometres in length which was a little costly to replace. But then again this was nothing compared to loosing ones house or worse ones life.

In short I am extremely saddened and also very angry. Too many people lost their lives and in my view many of these deaths were avoidable if both homeowners and local authorities had of been more proactive and responsible. Such a terrible tragedy and waste. :down:

P.S. Sorry for my rant but I just had to get it off my chest.

[OneToughHerring]

If it's generally known that those areas are prone to have such fires it makes me wonder why they build there in the first place?

[August]

If it's generally known that those areas are prone to have such fires it makes me wonder why they build there in the first place?

Your area is prone to snow and cold weather, why do you build there?

[OneToughHerring]

Snow and cold weather doesn't kill people. Or well, the occasional person who is under the influence of alcohol and happens to doze off in the snow may perish, not really a reason not to build houses here. On the whole our houses can resist the weather quite well, I'd invite for example Brits to take a look at how proper houses are built instead of the drafty and dank things they have.

[kiwi_2005]

:nope: Not good. I was reading about this on a kiwi forum aussie bush fires never get mentioned but when aussies die from them then the topics start.

"On warm days vaporised eucalyptus oil rises above the bush to create the characteristic distant blue haze of the Australian landscape. Eucalyptus oil is highly flammable and bush fires can travel through the oil-rich air of the tree crowns with an explosive power that firefighters can do little about. " Very tough enviroment, a bit like living beside drums of petrol stacked 30 metres high"

[baggygreen]

If it's generally known that those areas are prone to have such fires it makes me wonder why they build there in the first place?OTH, the answer is simple.

We have 3 types of country out here - bush, which is what burns, tropics, which flood, or desert, which gets a bit too hot.

You gotta live somewhere..

[Kapitan_Phillips]

Saw this on the news, there were tattlings that it was started deliberately. Or am I imagining things?

[darius359au]

@onetoughherring , take a look at a map of Australia you'll notice there's a thin band of green mainly along the east coast then the rest of the place is yellow for desert, there's not alot of choice's for places to live here - were I live is actually classed as being in a desert and its a major city with a population of over 1 million (Adelaide).

My inlaws got a phone call from my sister in law yesterday ,where she live's in Victoria has fires all around , they can't see the fires themselves (But they could be seen from the local town),and their getting ash falls - Churchill's about 1/2 an hours drive from where she live's .

[OneToughHerring]

Yea ok I guess you have thought about it then. Seems like a pretty big risk though, although from what I hear it's an even bigger risk in some parts of the US. Condolences for all the victims.

[Falkirion]

KP aparantly it was a deliberately lit fire. We've got a problem with firebugs throughout the summer months. Seems some idiots feel the need to light fires during one of the toughest days (47-48 degrees, hottest since records began and similar to temp during Black Friday during the 30s) ever.

I'm completely shocked by the death toll, never exepcted to see a bushfire claim over 100 people.

Luckily though I'm safe, 20 mins outside the Melbourne CBD. I've been considering joining the SES to help out during the summer months. This might speed it up a bit though.

[Reece]

Anyone deliberately lighting fires that cause death should be treated as a murderer, and in this case a fitting execution like burning at the stake would be appropriate, we have to live in fear of these idiots!:stare::x:nope:

[August]

I've been considering joining the SES to help out during the summer months. This might speed it up a bit though.

Do it, you'll always regret it if you don't.

[baggygreen]

up to 130 dead now, with expectations of another hundred or so to be found.... not good.

[nikimcbee]

A mate of mine and his family have lost their home last night in the fires around Marysville. Luckily they are all OK but I can't imagine the rebuilding process they are about to start.:o

I'm still trying to get hold of another good friend who lives near Bendigo who I've not been able to contact. I hope he and his family are all safe.

Hey Grant, I trust you're safe from all the fires and floods.:-? Just stay outta the flood water so the crocs don't getcha!:o

[bookworm_020]

up to 130 dead now, with expectations of another hundred or so to be found.... not good.

Three towns pretty much wiped off the map shows the intensity of the fire in the area. May of the dead came from leaving it too late to get out in time. IF there had been some better pre planning by people in these areas, many of them would have survived.

I'm just praying that the toll doesn't rise much futher, and that the @#$%&*! who lit the fires get caught. IF the judge is begged to let them get a slap on the wrist, I hope they say to them it's a choice of staying in the cells or facing the next of kin outside!:stare:

[TarJak]

A mate of mine and his family have lost their home last night in the fires around Marysville. Luckily they are all OK but I can't imagine the rebuilding process they are about to start.:o

I'm still trying to get hold of another good friend who lives near Bendigo who I've not been able to contact. I hope he and his family are all safe.

Hey Grant, I trust you're safe from all the fires and floods.:-? Just stay outta the flood water so the crocs don't getcha!:o
LOL I'm well out of it mate. The devastation is in aother state, nearly 1000km (over 440 miles) from where I live. That said, there are more than 40 fires burning in my state but none anywhere I'm likely to get singed.

Still no contact from my mate in Bendigo, but I'm classing no news as good news so far.

[August]

What would it take to survive a firestorm like that? Some kind of fallout type shelter? I'd guess that one could build a bunker that could protect a family from the heat and flame easily enough but how to provide air to breathe?

[Konovalov]

That said, there are more than 40 fires burning in my state but none anywhere I'm likely to get singed.

Spoke with my Mum this morning up at Colo Heights (NW of Sydney, NSW) who said that after some searing hot days temps have dropped to the mid 20's with some precipitation. However she sounded almost in a state of shock at just how devastating the fires had been down in Victoria and she said that my grandpa, who resides in Geelong (Victoria) had to turn the TV off having been brought to tears. :cry: Gotta phone Pa tonight to cheer him up and email him some nice pics that I took of a Mossie like he flew back in WW2.

I am a little worried about my mother because while the property is well prepared and we dealt really well with the Christmas 2002/New Years 2003 fire back then there were four of us on the property undertaking fire prevention and protection measures. This time it is just mum by herself along with our dogs, Zack the aussie Blue Heeler and Ali the Dalmation.

This is now by far the worst natural disaster to ever befall upon our nation. Only the tyrany of distance across the other side of the world makes it easier for me to deal with but even now I don't want to read the online papers such as the Age or ther Australian. This event is a national tragedy of the which we have never experience before. My thoughts and prayers are with those who have lost loved ones, those who are fighting for their lives in hospital or have suffered physical and emotional injury, those who lost their homes, and those who continue to face the threat of loosing life and property. Last but not least my thoughts and prayers go out to the brave men and women firefighters, who for the most part are volunteers. May you stay safe while helping to prevent further tragedy.

Advance Australia Fair.

[Konovalov]

What would it take to survive a firestorm like that? Some kind of fallout type shelter? I'd guess that one could build a bunker that could protect a family from the heat and flame easily enough but how to provide air to breathe?
Funny that you mention this August. When I was still living back home in 2002 I helped my mum up at her property at Colo Heights (2 hrs NW of Sydney) fight the fires of that Christmas. It was massive but we were well prepared with our defenses. Anyway we were obviously talking about the national tragedy that has happened down in country Victoria where the winds and general conditions are worse than what we had to deal with. We both came to the conclusion that if we were faced with what has happened in Victoria we may have not been able to withstand it. And then mum said what about jumping in one of her 2 massive concrete water tanks (each measures over 15m in diameter and 2.5m deep)if we were in the worst case scenario where it was helpless fighting the fires any longer. I said that I am not sure if you would survive even in there. I then wondered out aloud to her if there were any companies that specialize in making in effect a fire proof bomb shelter. Mum then said that she would seriously begin to look into. I said that this would be a good idea.

The long accepted policy that we have always adhered to is to either evacuate at least 24 hours before the fire comes through or to stay and defend our property. From what I have read in the papers back home many people tried to stay and defend but realized at the last moment that it was an impossible task. Hence they tried to flee when it was far to late, got caught in the bushfires in their cars, and sadly perished. People don't realize that it isn't the flames that kill. It is the immense radiant heat that reaches out 20,30, or 50 plus metres away that kills. Just shocking and so sad as I keep saying. :cry:

[August]

Well there is this, which would be something I'd certainly consider keeping in the car or house if I lived in a fire prone area:

http://www.nwcg.gov/pms/pubs/newshelt72.pdf

But I was thinking more along the lines of a cellar or bunker.

[Konovalov]

Well there is this, which would be something I'd certainly consider keeping in the car or house if I lived in a fire prone area:

http://www.nwcg.gov/pms/pubs/newshelt72.pdf

But I was thinking more along the lines of a cellar or bunker.
Yeah, we were also thinking along the lines of a bomb shelter type structure against fires. I'll post this link to mum anyway as it may provide some ideas. Thanks. :up:

[AVGWarhawk]

http://www.theage.com.au/national/islam-group-urges-forest-fire-jihad-20080906-4b53.html?page=-1

[Konovalov]

More desperate propoganda from Al Qaeda and it's affiliates. These nuts really crack me up. If they burn down all our bushland then how are they going to go on their terrorist training camps.

Unfortunately we have had a long history of our bushfires being lit on purpose by firebugs. And they tend to be white Aussie men in their late teens, 20's and 30's as I recall having been a near victim of intentionally lit bushfires back in 2002.

[Pioneer]

Hey Grant, I trust you're safe from all the fires and floods.:-? Just stay outta the flood water so the crocs don't getcha!:o

Fires are in the south, floods are north of my daughters, and there are no croc's (that I know of) in SoCal. :haha:

[SteamWake]

The death toll is shocking !

Dosent anyone get warning out? No evacuations?

Hope they get this under control soon.

Wishing them all the best.

Ill even say a prayer for them... if thats allowed.

[GoldenRivet]

My prayers go out to Australia and those affected by the fires.

I had thought upon first glance that this was going to be a difficult battle against some tough brush fires... i never imagined in my wildest dreams that it would be as bad as the news indicates.

tragic

if these fires were in fact lit intentionally, i hope they find the bastard(s) responsible!

:nope:

[SteamWake]

I saw where the Prime Minister declared it "Mass Murder" so I'm assuming they have proof the fires were intentionally set.

Those that set it are in deeep trouble.

[Schroeder]

Aren't there any warnings from the local authorities? I mean if a fire gets out of control like this then I have to warn people that it is impossible to protect their homes in the affected area and evacuate them , even by force if needed. I can't believe that so many people got trapped in the flames and diedsuch a cruel death.:damn:

[Oberon]

I think it's part people not realising how fast these fires move, and part people wanting to defend their homes with resources they simply don't have.

Such a terrible shock to see such a large loss of life though :(

[kiwi_2005]

Such a terrible shock to see such a large loss of life though :(

Yea its not good, I just heard that the fire might of been caused by an arsonist not an act of nature, well if true i hope that sicko is freaking out big time that he/she cause the deaths of nearly 200. :nope:

[baggygreen]

I think it's part people not realising how fast these fires move, and part people wanting to defend their homes with resources they simply don't have.

Such a terrible shock to see such a large loss of life though :(Spot on mate. These fires move at up to 100km/h, with ember attacks starting new fires up to 5 km ahead of the main firefront. all it takes is 1 ember and whoosh, there goes a paddock.

People did have warning, but nobody predicted it would move that far that quickly. in the space of a couple of hours, the flames moved more than a 3 hour drive.

Perhaps not surprisingly, the political fingerpointing has begun... most of the blame seems to be placed at the feet of the greens who wouldn't allow any backburning or clearing of the undergrowth. the least the pollies could do is wait for the flames to be put out!

[FIREWALL]

@ baggygreen Being from Southern California I know only too well how quick they can start and, how fast these fires can move.

My heart goes out to all the victims and survivors.

[Oberon]

Aye, when the flames of the natural wildfires are being put out, the political wildfire has just caught. :nope:

[darius359au]

Looks like Victorian Police have got a suspect for the churchill fire http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,25033574-2,00.html?from=public_rss ,That's the one that's threatening the sister in law's place so the family's got a vested interest in watching any news from there.

[Konovalov]

the least the pollies could do is wait for the flames to be put out!
Well said. :yep:

[bookworm_020]

I think it's part people not realising how fast these fires move, and part people wanting to defend their homes with resources they simply don't have.

Such a terrible shock to see such a large loss of life though :(Spot on mate. These fires move at up to 100km/h, with ember attacks starting new fires up to 5 km ahead of the main firefront. all it takes is 1 ember and whoosh, there goes a paddock.

People did have warning, but nobody predicted it would move that far that quickly. in the space of a couple of hours, the flames moved more than a 3 hour drive.

Perhaps not surprisingly, the political fingerpointing has begun... most of the blame seems to be placed at the feet of the greens who wouldn't allow any backburning or clearing of the undergrowth. the least the pollies could do is wait for the flames to be put out!

IT just takes a wind shift and places that weren't under threat become the front line within minutes.

[TarJak]

For those that wish to be of some assistance: http://www.smh.com.au/national/how-to-help-20090209-82g4.html

Very few people have bunkers and nor are there many houses with cellars. I heard of one story today where a family whose home was wiped out survived because they had a fire bunker to retreat to when the fight to defend their property was lost.

One of the big things being questioned is the policy of allowing people the option of staying and defending or leaving. One thing a lot of people get caught by is the psychological strain of fire defense. Many of the injuries and deaths were caused by last minute decisions to give up their defense and then being caught in the firestorm as they have no safe route to retreat.

Mandating fire cellars in these districts might have saved many of the lives lost this weekend.

[SteveW1]

Well the death toll is predicted to rise well over 200 now the state govenment is saying.

The police have caught 2 youths who started 1 of the fires in Narre Warren (South Eastern Melbourne) which destroyed 6 homes in 1 street, the 2 youths claim they started it because Narre Warren and Hampten Park (neighbouring area) both suck.:nope:

Some of the photos that we are seeing on the news and in the papers here are astounding with the amount of damage they show and the vast areas that the fires have burned.

Steve

[Konovalov]

IT just takes a wind shift and places that weren't under threat become the front line within minutes.
Yep. :yep: Back in 2002 the fires went past us and we thought we had got away with it. However the winds changed direction and the fire then came back up the road and the gully and we had the most intense few hours of our lives defending our property.

You know the worst thing for me with the bushfires was the waiting. Day after day we were told it was coming and it just seemed to drag on and on. Then all of a sudden when we didn't expect it we were told it was an hour away if that. I wouldn't wish the experience on anyone except for those criminal fire bugs who start the darned bushfires in the first place. :damn:

[Iceman]

I am sorry to hear of the fires down under my brothers and sorry for the loss of life...Australia you are in my thoughts and prayers.

Thks Kiwi for some of the explanattions of how and why a fire out back there can spread like that....as was pointed out by Firewall we here in AZ and California know first hand how dry wind and fire destroys.

Again my thoughts and prayers.

[SteamWake]

Now they are saying the fires were not arson :doh:

[darius359au]

Now they are saying the fires were not arson :doh:
Only in some of the fires , including Kingslake and thats only that its 'Unlikely" they were arson http://www.theage.com.au/national/arson-unlikely-in-most-of-the-fires-say-police-20090211-84sz.html

Problem they got is the fires were so intense and wide spread its going to be very hard to workout Where they started ,let alone How they started:cry: