Operation Deadlight

[Freiwillige]

After the war the Unterseeboots were almost universally dumped off shore in the atlantic and scuttled. Why in the world would they waste all that metal? Why would they sink all those XXI's instead of using them as they were more advanced than any sub in the English navy.

Anyways would it have made more sense to scrap them then to just throw them away like that.

[Torplexed]

Probably was out of a desire to keep that many surplus subs from ending up on the market and then in the hands of minor navies. After fighting a long drawn out war against the much dreaded and maligned U-Boats it probably would have been a major PR problem for the Allied navies if they had tried to incorporate them into their own navies. However, France and Norway did end up operating a few.

Speaking of salvage, in the late nineties an approach was made to the British Ministry of Defence for salvage rights on the Operation Deadlight U-boats by a firm who planned to raise up to a hundred of them. Because the wrecks were constructed in the pre-atomic age, they contain metals which are not radioactively tainted and which are therefore valuable for certain research purposes. No salvage award was made due to objections from Russia and the USA, and it is now probable that the U-boats will remain under the sea.

[bookworm_020]

Many of the boats had suffered damage and were worn out from war patrols. It would also have been costly to keep them in service as there was no supply chain of spare parts.

They did do testing of new ASW weapons on the subs and various results were obtained

[harzfeld]

well, they could have recycle all those scrap metals instead of rotting them. I guess the order was just being spiteful against Allied from taking them like they did after WW1.

[Freiwillige]

Operation deadlight was a British operation to scuttle the captured German submarine fleet. It was not the Germans who sunk them but the British! Would not all that metal be put to better use rebuilding England?

[Dread Knot]

Operation deadlight was a British operation to scuttle the captured German submarine fleet. It was not the Germans who sunk them but the British! Would not all that metal be put to better use rebuilding England?

Why bother? England had no lack of old WWI battleships to scrap for metal. I think the old "R" class quickly found themselves at the breakers not long after the shooting ended. Not mention the all the scrap metal at hand from a fleet far larger than she could still afford. Britian's shortages in the immediate postwar era were mostly food and finances.

Probably would have made sense to scrap the Prinz Eugen too. But with all the surplus warships in the world she ended up at a A-bomb test.

[mookiemookie]

The United States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_of_America) received U-2513 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_submarine_U-2513) and U-3008 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_submarine_U-3008), which were commissioned into the United States Navy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Navy). U-3017 (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=German_submarine_U-3017&action=edit&redlink=1) was commissioned into the Royal Navy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Navy) as HMS N41 (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=HMS_N41&action=edit&redlink=1), and U-2518 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_submarine_U-2518) became French submarine Roland Morillot (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland_Morillot_%28S613%29). U-3515 (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=German_submarine_U-3515&action=edit&redlink=1), U-2529 (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=German_submarine_U-2529&action=edit&redlink=1), U-3035 (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=German_submarine_U-3035&action=edit&redlink=1), and U-3041 (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=German_submarine_U-3041&action=edit&redlink=1) were commissioned into the Soviet Navy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Navy) as B 27 (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Soviet_submarine_B_27&action=edit&redlink=1), B 28 (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Soviet_submarine_B_28&action=edit&redlink=1), B 29 (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Soviet_submarine_B_29&action=edit&redlink=1), and B 30 (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Soviet_submarine_B_30&action=edit&redlink=1) respectively.

The US and Soviets reverse engineered the ones they had and used that knowledge to integrate into their own submarine designs.

[Jimbuna]

I wrote a mission for this a while back (GWX2.1 I think)....I'll post a few pics later.

A few links (the bottom one covers the 'clean steel' issue)

http://www.periscopepublishing.com/images/Deadlight%20gallery%20pages/OD%20exhibition.htm

http://www.uboat.net/fates/deadlight_hist.htm

http://news.webshots.com/album/91659251UldFNI

http://www.secretscotland.org.uk/index.php/Secrets/OperationDeadlight

[Puster Bill]

For the life of me, I can't figure out what objections the US and Russia can possibly have to raising them and cutting them into scrap.

What possible objection could they have? These are not war graves, and I can't think of any possible environmental or safety issues. Weren't they stripped before being towed out to sea and sunk?

[Jimbuna]

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/7623/sh32007102114045607qb5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/7125/sh32007102114052887lh4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/6048/operationdeadlightyk1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/5913/sh32007102114065190lb5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/7595/sh320071021140757821cp0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/4818/sh32007102114083414oy4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/3320/sh320071021141016811lb4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Freiwillige]

One of these U boats is not like the others, One of these U boats is not the same. One of these U boats is not like the others, Now its time to play our game.
(Sesame street)

Is that a type XXIII!

Is that in the game?

[A Very Super Market]

Jimbuna's pics are sunken AI subs, you can't play as them.






Yet....

[Weiss Pinguin]

There is a playable Type XXIII in NYGM. There have also been several playable XXIII mods before, I believe.

[mariuszj1939]

Why bother? England had no lack of old WWI battleships to scrap for metal.

I read intersting book abt Scapa Flow history and how almost all WWI German Grand Fleet was picked up from the water one by one for scrap.
;)

[mariuszj1939]

Operation deadlight was a British operation to scuttle the captured German submarine fleet. It was not the Germans who sunk them but the British! Would not all that metal be put to better use rebuilding England?

Polish Navy helped British - ORP Blyskawica sunk first u-boot in operation because she dropped first depth-charges against German u-boot in WWII. :up:
Below some pictures from Operation Deadlight taken by Polish crew :
http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/1765/deadlightu1165viic41frogg3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/7391/deadlightu1165viic41frocq0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/6621/deadlightu2361fromorpbljf2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/3047/deadlightu1165viic41qo2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/3100/xxiiifromorpkrakowiakkx4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/8902/viic41no4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

BTW - Jimbuna nice screenshots - I remember one of these won in screenshots competition !

[Dread Knot]

Why bother? England had no lack of old WWI battleships to scrap for metal.

I read intersting book abt Scapa Flow history and how almost all WWI German Grand Fleet was picked up from the water one by one for scrap.
;)

The British Admiralty's initial reaction to the scuttling was 'Where they are sunk, they will rest and rust. There can be no question of salvaging them'. But the wrecks were a hazard in a major naval anchorage, and a few local boats found themselves going aground on the submerged hulls. Those that had been beached were removed almost immediately. Most of the submerged ships were salvaged in the 1930s. However, some harvesting of metals continued in the 1970s.

The remaining German ships still in place there are the battleships SMS Kronprinz Wilhelm, SMS Markgraf, and SMS Konig; and the light cruisers SMS Brummer, SMS Bremse, SMS Coln, SMS Karlsruhe, and SMS Dresden.

[Jimbuna]

One of these U boats is not like the others, One of these U boats is not the same. One of these U boats is not like the others, Now its time to play our game.
(Sesame street)

Is that a type XXIII!

Is that in the game?

Yep, a type XXIII, but not player playable in GWX3.0

[Jimbuna]

[/URL]
(http://imageshack.us)

(http://imageshack.us)

[URL="http://imageshack.us"] (http://imageshack.us)

BTW - Jimbuna nice screenshots - I remember one of these won in screenshots competition !

What an amazing memory......I had to think back there :)

[mariuszj1939]

Is that a type XXIII!

Is that in the game?

Yep, a type XXIII, but not player playable in GWX3.0

I played XXIII and fired only two torpedoes and even sunk something in 17th Flotilla !:up:

[Faamecanic]

well, they could have recycle all those scrap metals instead of rotting them. I guess the order was just being spiteful against Allied from taking them like they did after WW1.

Keep in mind to the war powers had SO MUCH scrap that they didnt know what to do with it all. Literally 1000's of tanks just rotted away in Germany (both allied and German) because there were so many of them.

[Jimbuna]

Is that a type XXIII!

Is that in the game?

Yep, a type XXIII, but not player playable in GWX3.0

I played XXIII and fired only two torpedoes and even sunk something in 17th Flotilla !:up:

In GWX3.0 http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/1817/thinkbigsw1yo4.gif

[mariuszj1939]

Is that a type XXIII!

Is that in the game?

Yep, a type XXIII, but not player playable in GWX3.0

I played XXIII and fired only two torpedoes and even sunk something in 17th Flotilla !:up:

In GWX3.0 http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/1817/thinkbigsw1yo4.gif

GWX + Flotilla Mod GWM

[Jimbuna]

Is that a type XXIII!

Is that in the game?

Yep, a type XXIII, but not player playable in GWX3.0

I played XXIII and fired only two torpedoes and even sunk something in 17th Flotilla !:up:

In GWX3.0 http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/1817/thinkbigsw1yo4.gif

GWX + Flotilla Mod GWM

Ah, right http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/thumbsup.gif

[harzfeld]

well, they could have recycle all those scrap metals instead of rotting them. I guess the order was just being spiteful against Allied from taking them like they did after WW1.
Keep in mind to the war powers had SO MUCH scrap that they didnt know what to do with it all. Literally 1000's of tanks just rotted away in Germany (both allied and German) because there were so many of them.

They could have a place as storage or graveyard for all U-boats, but why scuttled them at sea? Some or many were too deep to salvage rather than scuttle them at harbor like Scapa Flow after WW1. Why didn't U-boats dock at docks and have someone to scuttle or deal with them instead of their crew? Most of them today are probably too rusty to pull out. If we had meth heads back then, most or all of them probably would be salvaged already. Meth heads would do anything for a metal into cash nowadays.

[Jimbuna]

well, they could have recycle all those scrap metals instead of rotting them. I guess the order was just being spiteful against Allied from taking them like they did after WW1.
Keep in mind to the war powers had SO MUCH scrap that they didnt know what to do with it all. Literally 1000's of tanks just rotted away in Germany (both allied and German) because there were so many of them.

They could have a place as storage or graveyard for all U-boats, but why scuttled them at sea? Some or many were too deep to salvage rather than scuttle them at harbor like Scapa Flow after WW1. Why didn't U-boats dock at docks and have someone to scuttle or deal with them instead of their crew? Most of them today are probably too rusty to pull out. If we had meth heads back then, most or all of them probably would be salvaged already. Meth heads would do anything for a metal into cash nowadays.

What's a 'meth head'.....pray tell :hmmm:

[harzfeld]

Meth is short for methamphetamine, its a very addictive drug, and growing problems in United States. More info about it here; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methamphetamine Meth heads tend to collect or steal metals & coppers from anything they can get their hands on and sell them at scrap metal yards for cash to feed their habits.

[Jimbuna]

Meth is short for methamphetamine, its a very addictive drug, and growing problems in United States. More info about it here; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methamphetamine Meth heads tend to collect or steal metals & coppers from anything they can get their hands on and sell them at scrap metal yards for cash to feed their habits.

Rgr that :up:

[bigboywooly]

well, they could have recycle all those scrap metals instead of rotting them. I guess the order was just being spiteful against Allied from taking them like they did after WW1.

Keep in mind to the war powers had SO MUCH scrap that they didnt know what to do with it all. Literally 1000's of tanks just rotted away in Germany (both allied and German) because there were so many of them.

They could have a place as storage or graveyard for all U-boats, but why scuttled them at sea? Some or many were too deep to salvage rather than scuttle them at harbor like Scapa Flow after WW1. Why didn't U-boats dock at docks and have someone to scuttle or deal with them instead of their crew? Most of them today are probably too rusty to pull out.

A huge amount of subs were scuttled by crews in German ports BEFORE the war officially ended
The operation deadlight subs are mostly sunk off Ireland and were either used as target practice for the Squid or other WIP Br weapons or blown up with explosives

[Red Lord of Chaos]

Meth is short for methamphetamine, its a very addictive drug, and growing problems in United States. More info about it here; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methamphetamine Meth heads tend to collect or steal metals & coppers from anything they can get their hands on and sell them at scrap metal yards for cash to feed their habits.
Round these parts it's Gypsies that rip off anything metal.
My Great Aunt was Leading Wren on HMS Fowey Castle (Castle Class Corvette) based out of Faslane and escorted HMS Northumberland during Operation Deadlight. She also acted as interpreter during the interrogation of U-Boat crews after surrender.