Fellow Kaleun's...thoughts?

[Kapt. Hütler]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1098904/Secret-Lusitania-Arms-challenges-Allied-claims-solely-passenger-ship.html?ITO=1490

"Die Tat ist alles" - Großadmiral Alfred von Tirpitz

[bigboywooly]

Hmmmm very interesting
I thought the ship had been investigated before though :hmm:
4 million rounds is certainly munitions carrying

[GoldenRivet]

This tragedy was botched by every "side" involved in the sinking.

First, the Allies should have NEVER been transporting war goods on a ship loaded with civilian passengers.

Second, Civilian passenger ships which were actively engaged in the commerce of hauling civilians should have never been allowed into an active war zone such as the north Atlantic ocean.

Third, The German commander of the U-boat should have fallen in line with his "quartermaster" who refused to relay the order to fire. hundreds of innocent civilians lost their lives in the incident for absolutely nothing other than their want to cross an ocean.

I would say that any company willing to place its passengers in danger by sailing them into an active war zone would be just as guilty of murder as the sub commander which gave the order to fire the torpedo.

------

Now... in SH3, if i encounter an ocean liner one of three criteria must be met before i will commit to an attack

1. The liner must be under escort

or

2. The liner must be carrying obvious military material

or

3. The liner must be obviously armed.

if the commander of the U-boat observed any of these three conditions... he would be technically justified in taking the shot. However, just because you are technically justified for taking the shot doesnt always mean you should take the shot!

[Thomen]

This tragedy was botched by every "side" involved in the sinking.

First, the Allies should have NEVER been transporting war goods on a ship loaded with civilian passengers.

Second, Civilian passenger ships which were actively engaged in the commerce of hauling civilians should have never been allowed into an active war zone such as the north Atlantic ocean.

Third, The German commander of the U-boat should have fallen in line with his "quartermaster" who refused to relay the order to fire. hundreds of innocent civilians lost their lives in the incident for absolutely nothing other than their want to cross an ocean.


I would say that any company willing to place its passengers in danger by sailing them into an active war zone would be just as guilty of murder as the sub commander which gave the order to fire the torpedo.


I see you forgot to mention that Churchill and his compatriots did not warn the ship either that they apparently had reports of submarines/u-boats operating in the area.

The British, especially the First Lord of the Admiralty (Winston Churchill was it, I think), were so desperate for the US to enter the war, that every and all means where used. Among others, the 'small' negligence of the Admiralty to warn the Lusitania about the presence of u-boats in the area.

As far as the rest of post goes.. I agree. :up:

[Lt.Fillipidis]

This reminds me of the Wilhelm Gustloff tragedy...:cry:

EDIT: Actually, Churchill "lured" USA to both of the wars...

[Thomen]

This reminds me of the Wilhelm Gustloff tragedy...:cry:

EDIT: Actually, Churchill "lured" USA to both of the wars...

The skipper of the Russian submarine, relatively shortly after he torpedoed the Gustloff, hit another steamer full of evacuees, wounded and civilians.

[Lt.Fillipidis]

Do you have the sub's id or the captain's name?
Or some url or something.

[Thomen]

Do you have the sub's id or the captain's name?
Or some url or something.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_submarine_S-13

[Kapt. Hütler]

He was an alcoholic who Mikhail Gorbachev posthumously awarded the ‘Hero of The Soviet Union’ for his “distinguished wartime service”.

[GoldenRivet]

Do you have the sub's id or the captain's name?
Or some url or something.

Im assuming you were not referring to the Russian boat.

im assuming you wanted to know the boat and skipper which attacked the Lusitania

this was WW1 German U-Boat U-20 under the command of Kapitänleutnant Schwieger

[A Very Super Market]

Modern warfare is unrelenting and cruel by it's very nature. Firebombing, sieges, blockades, deportment, military government. War is always full of tragedies, and the Lusitania is just one of many. Remember that it's a game and you aren't killing innocent people, and don't try and make others guilty about it.

[Lafferty]

I heard about the ammunation on board the Lusitania, but can't remember hearing about the Gustloff

[Brag]

Kapt Hutler.
Welcome aboard! Interesting article. I agree with most comments of this thread--thanks for bringing up this article. :yep:

[Kapt. Hütler]

My pleasure.

"Die Tat ist alles" - Großadmiral Alfred von Tirpitz

[Kapt Z]

Modern warfare is unrelenting and cruel by it's very nature. Firebombing, sieges, blockades, deportment, military government. War is always full of tragedies, and the Lusitania is just one of many. Remember that it's a game and you aren't killing innocent people, and don't try and make others guilty about it.

I agree. It was a tragedy, but she was a British vessel, flying the British flag, in a war zone.... I can't fault the u-boat commander for taking the shot. I would have.

Calling him a murderer is no different than charging the USAAF or the RAF for the carpet bombings of German cities with the same offense.

[GoldenRivet]

Modern warfare is unrelenting and cruel by it's very nature. Firebombing, sieges, blockades, deportment, military government. War is always full of tragedies, and the Lusitania is just one of many. Remember that it's a game and you aren't killing innocent people, and don't try and make others guilty about it.
I agree. It was a tragedy, but she was a British vessel, flying the British flag, in a war zone.... I can't fault the u-boat commander for taking the shot. I would have.

Calling him a murderer is no different than charging the USAAF or the RAF for the carpet bombings of German cities with the same offense.

correct.

perhaps one day mankind as a whole will understand that the way to settle our differences should not involve armed conflict.

unfortunately... if that ever happens it will be far into the future.

[Thomen]

Modern warfare is unrelenting and cruel by it's very nature. Firebombing, sieges, blockades, deportment, military government. War is always full of tragedies, and the Lusitania is just one of many. Remember that it's a game and you aren't killing innocent people, and don't try and make others guilty about it.
I agree. It was a tragedy, but she was a British vessel, flying the British flag, in a war zone.... I can't fault the u-boat commander for taking the shot. I would have.

Calling him a murderer is no different than charging the USAAF or the RAF for the carpet bombings of German cities with the same offense.
correct.

perhaps one day mankind as a whole will understand that the way to settle our differences should not involve armed conflict.

unfortunately... if that ever happens it will be far into the future.
Good ol' Wargasm comes to mind.. where conflicts were fought in the WWWW.. World Wide War Web.. or something like that.

[coronas]

Another mistery solved.
Good work Kapt. Hütler...and wellcome! :salute: