Strategy: Convoy vs Single Ships

[Baumann]

In terms of risk/potential reward, is it better to try to sink single ships or actively seek out and engage convoys? Although convoys present more numerous and varied targets, there are some downsides also:

I find that attacking convoys can be problematic -

1) if you are intercepting on a course that runs at 90degrees to the course of the convoy then you run the risk of being picked up on sonar by escorts running on the side of the convoy.

2) although there are a variety of targets to choose from, due to reloading times, and the escorts being alerted after the first target has been hit (immediatley it seems which wasnt always the case), it in fact becomes difficult to destroy more than 1 or 2 ships from a convoy. If you try to slip away and come back, you find you have to surface to get the speed up, and chase to re-engage the convoy at somepoint where it may have either changed course, or escorts might be lurking on your approaches.

3) historically, a captain like Kretschmer would attack the rear rows of a convoy, from within, but it seems that the columns in SH3 are closer than in reality, that the convoys are not as big as they really were, that you get spotted at a relatively long distance (even at night), and that escorts are very prompt to locate and fire upon a uboat that is in the convoy. In reality, escorts would often be decieved by an attack from within the convoy and on the occasion that they did realise they would rather not fire in to areas where they might hit their own merchants! I have also had problems with attacking on the surface - the method by which the majority of allied ships were sunk by u-boats.

Maybe I am not using the right kind of approaches/stealth? Maybe I have misunderstood the strategies of successful captains? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Perhaps it is better to sink individual ships?

[bigboywooly]

I regulary attack convoys from within
I am on silent running as I close in and have had the escorts pass as close as 70m behind me
Nerve wracking that was
Once inside the convoy lanes usually target 2 ships fore and one aft
Using fast torps on a ship some distance from me and then slower speeds on the next and stern ships - both closer to me
Hoping the torps get there close together
Go deep as soon as you fire and head for the back of the convoy
Silent and deep usually means I get away untouched

Convoys in GWX are set to 1000mtrs - 1 KM - apart
Dont think they were that much further apart in RL

Convoy Blue 1 — Port Said to Gibraltar

H.M.T. Dilwara sailed with Convoy Blue 1 from Port Said on the 9th September 1939. It was the first Westbound convoy from Port Said. Once clear, the twenty ships of the convoy formed up in five columns of four rows. The columns were 3 cables apart, with 2 cables between ships in each row, a cable = 200yds
http://www.bbc.co.uk/ww2peopleswar/stories/10/a4080610.shtml

Though in relation to the areas of ocean the space occupied by a convoy was miniscule, it did not appear so to the observer. Normally a convoy was formed in a rectangular shape, with a much wider frontage than depth. Ships most commonly occupied nine to eleven parallel columns, each averaging five ships. Both weather conditions and the need to avoid collisions could affect the formation. The distance diagonally across a convoy of 45 ships might be 8000 yards
http://www.militaryhistoryonline.com/wwii/atlantic/convoy.aspx

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h22/bigboywooly/Tags/ScreenHunter_035.jpg

United States Fleet - Anti-Submarine and escort of convoy intructions
In the pic above has 600 yard = 548 metres spacing in a column and 500yards between coloumns

http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USN/ref/ASW-Convoy/ASW-Convoy-4.html#4200

[Baumann]

Wow - what a great response! Many thanks - the picture of escort instructions is particularly interesting and the links were also very informative. I think I have a bit to learn about stealth - the greatest asset of the u-boat! I also think more use of the hydrophones is in order to track/follow convoys and keep an ear out for escorts. I will certainly try and repeat your strategy for attacking convoys, as it seems very authentic and likely to lead to success with some practice. Don't get me wrong - I have had success in attacking convoys (I recently managed to sink an s-class sub and light cruiser simultaneously from within a convoy) but I think I have a tendeny to be too reckless and impatient, inevitably endangering my boat and the lives of my crew.

I was also wondering if any players had success with firing a fan/spread/split salvo of torpedoes into the convoy, rather than picking an individual ship? I have tried it twice with no success - and it doesnt take long to get fed up with emptying four tubes only to achieve nothing and having to abandon the attack vector to reload...

[Mittelwaechter]

In '42/'43 it gets much harder to sneak into a convoy and stay undetected after sinking some freighters. It's maybe a 50:50 chance to survive.

As soon as the FATs are available, I prefer to stay outside the convoy. I try to get into a position 60° AOB of the leading freighter. I shoot from ~6000 meters at slow speedsettings and impact fuses (at night if possible). It gives me enough time to move away and to stay undetected. 2 out of 4 shots score a hit I guess and the wounded stragglers are some easy bait.

It's even possible to use only the hydrophone and the estimated range by sonar to attack a convoy successfully in foggy weather with those superb FATs. I like their long range capability.

[RoaldLarsen]

Convoys in GWX are set to 1000mtrs - 1 KM - apart
This makes it sound like column spacing is a parameter that can be tweaked. If so, given the following citations, why are columns so widely spaced in GWX? I have read other sources that also give spacing in the 500-750 metre range.

Can you identify how spacing is configured so I can customize, please?
The columns were 3 cables apart, ..., a cable = 200yds
...
600 yard = 548 metres spacing in a column and 500yards between columns

[mookiemookie]

Appendix B of the GWX manual has a great section about the finer points of attacking a convoy.

I used to be a bit scared of the convoys, and especially from within, but in this career I've been able to infiltrate the destroyer screens with relative ease coming from an oblique angle in front of the convoy. I go in surfaced with decks awash, always at night and never with "visibility unlimited". Once past the destroyers, I go to PD and I pick one or two juicy targets in the middle of the convoy. After my torpedoes hit, I go to flank speed for a few seconds and get down to 100 to 120 m depth as fast as I can. Usually at this point the DD's have trouble hearing you in the midst of all the commotion and you can get most of the way down before cutting your engines to 2 knots and going to silent running. I slip out of the back of the convoy, evading if I have to, and by the time the DD's give up searching, if you've been quiet enough you're really not that far behind the convoy. Make an end run at full speed just out of visual range of the escorts, and repeat.

I've also had some luck attacking parallel to ships between columns. Something like this:

http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/2391/torpedoif9.th.jpg (http://img175.imageshack.us/my.php?image=torpedoif9.jpg)

(Crude image, but you get the point)

[Balle Klorin]

In the North Atlantic the winter season brought another thing to how the formation was set up, ...visibility, or rather the lack of visibility.

Due to poor visibility in rain, snow and fog they had to keep much closer to eachother. I believe they used to tow a buy after each ship to make it easyer for the following ship to do just that.

These old merchants didn't have a radar to help out keeping position during such conditions and had to rely on visual contact.

[bigboywooly]

Convoys in GWX are set to 1000mtrs - 1 KM - apart This makes it sound like column spacing is a parameter that can be tweaked. If so, given the following citations, why are columns so widely spaced in GWX? I have read other sources that also give spacing in the 500-750 metre range.

Can you identify how spacing is configured so I can customize, please?
The columns were 3 cables apart, ..., a cable = 200yds
...
600 yard = 548 metres spacing in a column and 500yards between columns
The game uses 1000m from ship centre to ship centre
Not stern of A to bow of B
Stock convoys were set at 500m and way too close
If you get the bigger merchants and tankers - even liners - they are trying to pass one another all the time and dont sail straight

Convoy spacings are in the RND mis

C:\Ubisoft\GWX 3\data\Campaigns\Campaign\Campaign_RND - open in notepad

Speed=9.000000
ColumnsNo=6
Spacing=1000 <-------Here

You can use the replace function to change to any spacing you want
Though bear in mind TFs may also be set at 1000mtr and reducing those too much wont look right

Trial and error to what suits your taste I guess

Always be in port before making changes and back up any files you intend to mess with
Using replace function on the RND can take some time and can sometimes freeze
Which can mess with the file you were altering

[Robert Fulton]

I have had success with tactics similar to wooley and mookie. And even if you don't find yourself with the combination of fast and slow torps loaded, you can still arrange for nearly simultaneous detonation on three targets. Take for example a 6-column convoy with big targets in cols 3 & 4: position your boat 100M inside of col5 ( col2 works also) facing in and perpendicular; pick three targets in the same row; all three will reach 90 AOB at the same time; I play stock so ranges are row3-900m, row4-400m, and row6-600m; fire two at the col 3 target, then after about 25 secs it is time to fire stern at col6 and finally the last two at col4. Because all three targets get to 90 AOB at the same time, all five torps should hit at the same time. Assuming a big tanker, a big cargo, and a small merchant, one can rack up 20,000 tons. Like mookie and wooley I dive immediately at flank speed and turn 90 degrees to the rear of the convoy. As soon as the torpedoes detonate, I go to silent running and may turn 5 degrees port or starboard depending on what I know of the escort positions.

With regard to your question about risk-reward. I believe that single ships are much better risk-reward wise. But convoys are more fun.

[RoaldLarsen]

[quote=RoaldLarsenCan you identify how spacing is configured so I can customize, please?
The game uses 1000m from ship centre to ship centre
Not stern of A to bow of B
Stock convoys were set at 500m and way too close
If you get the bigger merchants and tankers - even liners - they are trying to pass one another all the time and dont sail straight

Convoy spacings are in the RND mis

C:\Ubisoft\GWX 3\data\Campaigns\Campaign\Campaign_RND - open in notepad

Speed=9.000000
ColumnsNo=6
Spacing=1000 <-------Here

You can use the replace function to change to any spacing you want
Though bear in mind TFs may also be set at 1000mtr and reducing those too much wont look right

Trial and error to what suits your taste I guess

Always be in port before making changes and back up any files you intend to mess with
Using replace function on the RND can take some time and can sometimes freeze
Which can mess with the file you were altering[/quote]

TYVM for your pointers.

I take it that the single Spacing parameter controls both horizontal and vertical spacing of a given convoy or task force. I can see why that can be a problem. I may compromise and use 750 or so.

I doubt I will use a simple global replace, but will pick and choose which groups I modify. (Yes, I now have an idea of how many entries there are in the Campaign_RND file :-? ) With a scriptable editor I might be able to just edit merchant convoys, perhaps, and leave task forces alone.

[bigboywooly]

You're welcome
Some convoys are set at 900 and coastal units 500 as a lot smaller
And yes spacing is in both directions

Good luck with your changes
Be nice to know the results
:up:

[mookiemookie]

I'm running a Type IX career and I'm down by Freeport in Africa. I'm finding 3 ship small convoys escorted by a DD. Will let you know what I find on convoy spacing with these, if you care.