AMD Athlon 64 X2 7750 Kuma (Black Edition)

[Zachstar]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103300

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4327030&CatId=2328
AMD Athlon 64 X2 7750 Kuma


Right now I declare this king of budget overclocking!

The reason I say that is this is a REALLY good CPU for the money and one I plan to get. From what I can tell these were Phenom x4s that had two cores disabled via laser during fab due to defects in those cores. There is nothing wrong with this as they are working with a small process and there is going to be bad cores. They aren't going to suddenly give you errors on the remaining cores as the controller knows those cores are dead.

So you get all the features of those super expensive x4 black editions at a cheapo x2 price (of course with only 2 cores instead of 4) Also the reports I am reading say it is a good overclocker up to 3.2 due to less heat (2 instead of 4 cores means less heat)

Heh with this advertisement I ought to be hired by AMD :P

Anyway just wanted to let the folks know about this one. It will likely be the best offer for a few years because the 45nm Athlons of the future seem to not have any L3 :nope:

[Zachstar]

Just a note it seems the 7750 is almost as good in games as the x3!

And the difference is really small!

Basically in my view this means you can build a 3-4 hundred dollar computer now with 2 sticks of nice DDR2 memory. And it will run overclock and run windows Vista fine! Then around late October you do an MLU on it by adding another 2 sticks of Ram maybe a video card to crossfire/SLI with and of course the main event! Purchasing Windows 7!

After that MLU you can do another next year if AMD gets a REALLY good 45nm AM2+ dual or tri core at 90-100 USD.

However keep in mind the huge costs of dev these days. Crysis was a huge investment for EA and look at them these days Far Cry 2 was a huge investment for Ubisoft and look at them!

My computer has an Pent 4 HT at 3.2 Ghz. It is old (One of their first 90nm CPUs) and with upgrades over the years (1.5 Gb of ram now and a Nvidia 8600 GT) It runs Silent Hunter 4 with the settings turned up at a great FPS.

Unless Ubisoft plans to spend about as much money on Far Cry 2 on Silent Hunter 5. Such a build based on the 7750 is going to last you heck 2-3 years with a few MLUs. And by that point either 32nm will be king or 3D transistors/quantum parts will mean a change to the face of computing.

[AVGWarhawk]

It is interesting what they do with cores these days. I can say that multiple cores are great if you open several programs at the same time. Unganged RAM usage by AMD is a nice feature where it dedicates a stick of RAM per core. I did add another 4 gig of RAM to my computer for a total of 8. I can say I do not see a substantial increase in performance over just 4 gigs that I was running in single channel. But hey, it is there if needed. Having the ability to overclock your cores is a great feature for keeping a computer for a long time.

[Zachstar]

Indeed!

After reading alot it seems that if you have a REALLY good air cooler you can drag this thing up to 3.4

Sound like something you would get a typhoon for.

And more cores are great for modern games that are starting to effectively use them. but games still rely more on speed rather than cores. So overclocking this to 3.2 is far better than sitting on a cheapo 2.1 x4.

[AVGWarhawk]

Well, AMD had the forethought to make their cores a overclockers dream. The Black Editions allow that and can clock quite a bit with just air cooling. My 7850 from reading overclocking test, etc. can reach 3.0 stable and cooled just by air. The Intel cores can overclock also. Most seem to like the Intel. Everyone has their favorites I guess. Personally, I do not see myself fooling with overclocking. My luck it will all go up in smoke:o

[Zachstar]

If one's core is at 65nm it is easier to overclock compared to 90nm which will get REALLY hot at the slightest change in voltage.

However unless it is a black edition I strongly advise against any overclocking unless one is very knowledgeable.

[AVGWarhawk]

I have no intentions of overclocking. If it ain't broke, do not fix it;)

[Reece]

Thanks Zachstar, this may be the way to go for sure!!:yep:

[Zachstar]

I have no intentions of overclocking. If it ain't broke, do not fix it;)

As long as you can play COD 5 you will be fine.

When are you planning your next MLU?

[AVGWarhawk]

I play COD WaW full tilt. No issues. What is a MLU?

[Zachstar]

Mid life upgrade.

Basically a point in which you decide to spend over 100 USD in computer parts to bring your computer back up to snuff with everyone else.

For instance I had to do a 200 dollar MLU to play SH4.

[Zachstar]

Thanks Zachstar, this may be the way to go for sure!!:yep:

For value yes. You can spend 20-30 dollars less for the other black editions but beware! They are 90nm and generate ALOT of heat!

This is 65nm And while Intel may have a slightly expensive (and less powerful) 45nm one out. It is extremely hard to overclock because you need a 150-200 dollar motherboard and well built ram. Not to mention Intel Cooling is traditionaly harder.

This is going to give you the most bang for buck for games, period. 3.1 Ghz dual over air. A 790GX Mobo which has an onboard 3300 that crossfires with a 4670. And you got a SH4 dream machine that will do 30FPS crysis and will do COD W@W with no issues!

[nikimcbee]

If one's core is at 65nm it is easier to overclock compared to 90nm which will get REALLY hot at the slightest change in voltage.

However unless it is a black edition I strongly advise against any overclocking unless one is very knowledgeable.

if you're going to overclock, buy a low-end chip and overclock it. i believe you void the waranty if you over-clock.

[Zachstar]

Low end chips do not overclock very well.

And while it is best to read the warranty well. They usually do not cover damage done due to overclocking.

So if you set it to 4 ghz and it blows they will tell you to take a hike but if it is DOA they will replace it.

[Zachstar]

Just a bump.

As of today on newegg it is priced at 60 USD.

This is an interesting situation because of a line of new Intel Dual Cores that pack quite a few more transistors per core.

Basically things can get very hard on this decision now because of the difference between Intel and AMD mobos.

In this situation if I was buying a budget PC right now I would go with the Kuma because the savings I get with it helps go toward a 790GX AMD Mobo. This is a GREAT Mobo because you are getting the equivalent of a HD 4670 with the onboard video and it can crossfire intenally with another HD card.

And then there is overclock ability. As once you get the chance you can get a REALLY good Air cooler and then overclock it to almost 3.4 GHZ.

This will change if AMD lets loose 45nm black edition dual cores.

[Reece]

Order placed, pickup on Friday!:yeah: Got it for 120 Australian Dollars.:yep:

[Zachstar]

Order placed, pickup on Friday!:yeah: Got it for 120 Australian Dollars.:yep:

Great buy!

The Kuma is still a great CPU the 65nm process is a bit dated but that is still a Phenom 1 core. You will get a crap ton of performance out of it.

I'm paying for a Tri Core and its rather high price just for 45nm just to be able to last 6 months or so longer than a Kuma. It bloated by build costs to over 500 USD

[Reece]

This is confusing, I just picked up an Athlon X2 7750 Kuma Black edition marked as 2.7ghz, the one I currently have is an X2 Athlon 6000 marked as 3.1ghz and overclocked to 3.25ghz, which one is faster??:-? did I just make a blunder, and bought a slower chip??:hmmm:
Edit: Ahh a little research, seems it's quite a bit faster and runs cooler:
http://www.overclock.net/amd-cpus/430834-x2-7750be-2-7ghz-vs-x2-2.html

[AVGWarhawk]

I'm guessing you purchased a slower chip but the new set you have might be able to clock much higher than your 6000.

[Reece]

Yeh I'm not 100% up to all the jargon on this stuff, depends also on things like cache, the 6000 is 1mb L2, I assume the 7750 is the same, I just assumed the 7750 would be faster than a 6000!!:hmmm:

[AVGWarhawk]

Other specifications of the chip include 512 KB of L2 cache per core, and a shared L3 cache of 2 MB.

These specs alone should say it is faster than your 6000:up:

[Reece]

I've got it installed and quite impressed, though I had to change the bios settings (ram etc) to get the best performance, had the computer bios reset a few times in the process!!:yep: To be able to push the CPU to give good performance I had to lower the ram speed, mainly the 2T Mode from Disabled (1T) to enabled, it is good Kingston ram but pushing the FSB from 200mhz to 238mhz has it's downside, wish I could change the multiplier (13.5) instead but fail to find how! The old 3D mark 06 bench was 8851, it's now 9410, so quite an improvement, some CPU-Z reports, note the DRAM Frequency from 400 to 476mhz:
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h244/Reecehk/CPU-Z1.jpg http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h244/Reecehk/CPU-Z2.jpg
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h244/Reecehk/CPU-Z3.jpg
Funny that the 800mhz ram shows as 400mhz but apparently normal!:hmmm:
Comments welcome.:salute:

Edit: I just checked the bios & think I can change the multiplier, mabe I should change to 15???:hmmm:

[AVGWarhawk]

Bottom line, is it faster than the 6000+ you replaced?

[Reece]

Bottom line, is it faster than the 6000+ you replaced?Yes quite a lot, from index of 8851 to 9410.:yeah:
I did try a combination of different multipliers but 13.5 is best:
238mhz X 13.5 - 9410 Ram 2T
200mhz X 16.0 - 9260 Ram 1T
222mhz X 14.5 - 9393 Ram 2T
228mhz X 14.0 - 9279 Ram 2T
Pushing higher on any above I have to reset the bios.:oops:
I did try 247mhz X 13.0 but had to reset.:doh:
Overall, very happy.:yep:

[AVGWarhawk]

In the end, that is all that matters...you are happy with the results. :up:

[Zachstar]

Pushing a 65nm to 3.2 is no small feat, I am QUITE impressed! Congrats!

Just keep an eye on the cooling and keep it clean. That is ALOT of heat that has to be pumped away and if it builds up the chip will automatically lower as far as 100mhz and if that does not work will trip the power supply (If its like my old Intel)

The good news is on games like E:TW that rely on being able to get some strength out of the CPU you will see quite a bit of performance gain.

I'm going with a tri core 45nm mainly to be able to overclock with less heat. Thus I respect those who do it at the 65nm range.

[Reece]

Thanks Zachstar, the cpu has a huge heat pipe cooler & runs between 32 & 37 degrees C, Far Cry 2 runs a breeze, just ordered Turok, it's coop so will be interesting to see how it goes on a LAN link up!!:DL
I'm going with a tri core 45nm mainly to be able to overclock with less heat.Sounds great, a little pricey for me, if you have 3Dmark06 would be interesting to see your results, and the operating temperature!:03: