View Full Version : How did I miss?
Missed again... :damn:
I'm trying out a new manual targetting tactic in a Porpoise class. Fairly simple, just using the TDC only to find a solution.
I'm using the 1.5 vanilla install.
I'm sitting still in firing position at 1000m (I have metric turned on) and I have already timed the target at a perfect 7.2 kts. I've sent the following info to the TDC:
1) Speed 7kts
2) AoB 90°S (target is approaching from the left)
3) Distance 1000
I have map updates on and I know all of the information is perfect... now I open tube 1 and wait.
When the scope is filled with a target and it looks like a perfect 90°S AoB, I click the send info button (and say "Mark" in my head). Fire1, Open2, Fire2, Open3, Fire3.
I goto external view and the stupid fish are clearly on track to miss astern??? :damn:
Now in this scnario I'm deliberatly not putting my sub on a 90° beam to the target true course; but I'm not at an extreme gyro angle either, maybe like 110-120°. The fish should swim out and make a gentle 10-15° left turn on to the solution track, but the stupid things are turning too far and missing astern!
I know I have the right distances and I've sent the data to the TDC as the target enters the 90°AoB view at 1000m. Is there some sort of glitch or something that I don't know about? ...related perhaps to the TDC not using the right torpedo speed or maybe having metric turned on?
Update: if you read thru the thread you'll find out that the answer is: You have to click the send data button twice!
rifleman13
01-16-09, 12:21 AM
I'm using the 1.5 vanilla install.
There's your problem! :know:
Travis Reed
01-16-09, 03:52 AM
I'm using the 1.5 vanilla install.
There's your problem! :know:
/agree
Be sure all the tubes are open before fireing. You made it sound as if you're opening the tube and fireing as the ship is passing along the fireing point of your scope. The slight time delay between the outer doors opening and the tube fireing can cause misses astern:yep:
Be sure the outer doors are open befor you fire.
RSColonel_131st
01-16-09, 06:25 AM
If you had the tubes flooded and open, I wouldn't know what happened.
Been trying similar things with the IX type (perfect setup with known range, firing point, AoB and target speed) where in fact it should be possible to do everthing from the attack map. Basically a "shoot trap" where you just wait for the ship to pass a specific trigger point.
Still missed.
Be sure all the tubes are open before fireing. You made it sound as if you're opening the tube and fireing as the ship is passing along the fireing point of your scope. The slight time delay between the outer doors opening and the tube fireing can cause misses astern:yep:
Be sure the outer doors are open befor you fire.
No they were open... I've been playin long enough to know the basics.
I guess I could've said: Open2, Wait 3 Secs, Fire2
I'm using the 1.5 vanilla install.
There's your problem! :know:
See I thought there had to be a problem with the equipment!
Man that's aggravating, and unfortunately, exactly what I suspected. :nope: So what did they screw up that gets fixed in a mod (as opposed to what should've been fixed already in a patch!)
Nisgeis
01-16-09, 09:13 AM
If you don't have the PK on, you sometimes have to send some info twice, as it seems the TDC is programmed to update itself 'on the next tick', which never comes. You can see the gyro angles changing on one particular data entry when you send it a second time. With the PK running, it's not an issue.
ExMachina
01-16-09, 09:16 AM
if you're missing astern, there's the chance that you were spotted and the ship's speed changed. (sounds like you're running w/ the scope up for a long period of time...)
another idea: have you looked at the attack map to make sure your firing solutions look reasonable?
If you don't have the PK on, you sometimes have to send some info twice, as it seems the TDC is programmed to update itself 'on the next tick', which never comes. You can see the gyro angles changing on one particular data entry when you send it a second time. With the PK running, it's not an issue.
It was sent (clicked) several times and, as I said, I validated the PK dials were updated and reflected exactly what I said they reflected. I will double-check that though and try double-triple-sending my final bearing "mark" before firing.
if you're missing astern, there's the chance that you were spotted and the ship's speed changed. (sounds like you're running w/ the scope up for a long period of time...)
another idea: have you looked at the attack map to make sure your firing solutions look reasonable?
Well, you're new here, so welcome aboard...
I did very specifically say that I am only using the TDC of the PK to get a fixed firing solution. The attack map shows nothing if the PK is not engaged. BTW, did I mention the fleetboat attack map is a travesty in SH4 compared to the gadgets you get on the same map, in the same game, when using a uboat?
...and no, the target didn't notice I was there. I mentioned I had map updates on and the solution was correct. The target never changed course.
If you had the tubes flooded and open, I wouldn't know what happened.
Been trying similar things with the IX type (perfect setup with known range, firing point, AoB and target speed) where in fact it should be possible to do everthing from the attack map. Basically a "shoot trap" where you just wait for the ship to pass a specific trigger point.
Still missed.
I've had no problems with basic Fast-90 attacks using a Type IX. On the other hand, I haven't tested an Adv Fast-90 (sub not on a 90° beam to target TC) which would be more representative of what I'm trying to do in this fleetboat example. :hmm:
Munchausen
01-16-09, 05:58 PM
PK should not be on. If it is, your 90 degree AOB will drift ... and be out of whack when the target is finally at 90 degrees and you fire.
If you had PK off ... well, then I gotta try it out myself and see if the same thing happens.
Soundman
01-16-09, 06:17 PM
If you don't have the PK on, you sometimes have to send some info twice, as it seems the TDC is programmed to update itself 'on the next tick', which never comes. You can see the gyro angles changing on one particular data entry when you send it a second time. With the PK running, it's not an issue.
Absolutely! :up: Don't know why, but yes, click that sucker (TDC input button) at least twice, you will see a change on the PK between the first and the second click. Heck, I'll usually just click it three, sometimes four times just to be sure. I really do wonder what the difference is between one and two clicks. Anyone know if there is a signifigance, or is this just a bug kinda thing ? In fact, I'm gonna post a thread on this issue to see if anyone knows.
PK should not be on. If it is, your 90 degree AOB will drift ... and be out of whack when the target is finally at 90 degrees and you fire.
If you had PK off ... well, then I gotta try it out myself and see if the same thing happens.
No... PK wasn't on.
I'm gonna try a triple-click tonight though. :hmm:
Nisgeis
01-16-09, 07:34 PM
It was sent (clicked) several times and, as I said, I validated the PK dials were updated and reflected exactly what I said they reflected.
I have re-read this thread and you didn't say that at all. At no point did you say you had entered the information twice, or that you had validated the PK dials were updated. I can only give advice based on information posted, not information you thought had been posted. I can't do anything about that.
After all, I was polite enough to not point out that a target with an AOB of 90 degrees to starboard could not possibly be approaching :D.
Rockin Robbins
01-16-09, 08:16 PM
Hold it Nisgeis you're sounding like aaronblood!:rotfl:
Hey it could be worse. My power supply shipped by UPS 3-day shipping left Monday, projected arrival time: Monday.:/\\!! "3 days" has been redefined!
It was sent (clicked) several times and, as I said, I validated the PK dials were updated and reflected exactly what I said they reflected.
I have re-read this thread and you didn't say that at all. At no point did you say you had entered the information twice, or that you had validated the PK dials were updated. I can only give advice based on information posted, not information you thought had been posted. I can't do anything about that.
After all, I was polite enough to not point out that a target with an AOB of 90 degrees to starboard could not possibly be approaching :D.
A target approaching from the left is entered in the TDC as 90°S. AoB is described from the approaching ship's perspective, and it most certainly is either 90°S (if approaching from left) or 90°P (if approaching from right) and you're setting your TDC for a future ambush on the approachng target. My intent was to be clear on which direction the nose of the ship was pointing so I wouldn't have people suggesting that I entered the AoB backwards.
No, I was saying "as I said" as in the dials appeared to have the correct solution... Before the "as I said" part I mentioned that I did click several times. But those several clicks were before the final mark click and I wasn't completely sure if I D-clicked on the last mark. So I also acknowledged that I would try your multi-clicking suggestion as I wasn't completely sure.
I knew that on the last mark click I saw one of the dials move with (at least) a single click, I assumed that was the TDC updating for the final mark. But I did want to test your D-click on the final mark suggestion just to be sure. ...and I appreciate very much, that suggestion.
But anyway... semantics, and I appreciate that forum posts are rather impersonal. So peace... and I'll buy ya a beer at the Hawaiian later. :()1:
As an update I have tried the recommendation to click multiple times and I can now confirm that yes, as I click repeatedly, first the lower dial updates on the PK, and then the upper dial on the second click.
Also, I notice that if I switch to the rear tubes and click the send button multiple times with speed selected, the TDC doesn't properly update for a rear tube. If I go to the distance and click that one, then it corrects for the rear tube. This part I don't quite understand, it all seems a little haphazard at the moment, I don't know if it's just working as it should or if it's just some sort of goofy implementation in the game. But at least I'm hitting the side of the barn now.
I guess I don't mind D-clicking if I see it's setting the bottom dial and then the top dial. Now I need to study how the TDC updates as I switch from fore to aft tubes.
Munchausen
01-17-09, 06:49 PM
Also, I notice that if I switch to the rear tubes and click the send button multiple times with speed selected, the TDC doesn't properly update for a rear tube.
Make sure you have an aft tube selected and then send a bearing that reflects a good aft shot (180 comes to mind).
Yeah, pretty sure I did that, and it doesn't seem to matter... I'm not too thrilled with that send data button right now. :shifty:
Munchausen
01-18-09, 02:01 PM
Okay, I tested an aft shot using RR's tanker quick setup ... and it worked. Each of four torps hit just slightly aft of where I aimed. Here's what I did:
1. Selected aft tube.
2. Turned PK off.
3. Sent target speed to TDC.
4. Turned scope/TBT to expected shoot bearing.
5. Sent shoot AOB (90) to TDC.*
6. Sent test range/bearing to TDC.**
7. Opened aft tubes.
8. Led target (crosshairs on the bow) as it approached 90 AOB.
9. Sent final bearing at 90 AOB and fired as juicy parts passed crosshairs!
* If AOB is not sent to TDC independant of range/bearing, updates will likely not be correct.
** The test range/bearing should be a WAG of what you expect to see when the target reaches 90 AOB. That way, you can compare the indications on the TDC ... they should reflect a fairly accurate setup.
Okay, I tested an aft shot using RR's tanker quick setup ... and it worked. Each of four torps hit just slightly aft of where I aimed. Here's what I did:
1. Selected aft tube.
2. Turned PK off.
3. Sent target speed to TDC.
4. Turned scope/TBT to expected shoot bearing.
5. Sent shoot AOB (90) to TDC.*
6. Sent test range/bearing to TDC.**
7. Opened aft tubes.
8. Led target (crosshairs on the bow) as it approached 90 AOB.
9. Sent final bearing at 90 AOB and fired as juicy parts passed crosshairs!
* If AOB is not sent to TDC independant of range/bearing, updates will likely not be correct.
** The test range/bearing should be a WAG of what you expect to see when the target reaches 90 AOB. That way, you can compare the indications on the TDC ... they should reflect a fairly accurate setup.
Oh no doubt it works. Most of the time I've hit stuff with it; other times the fish swim off in some strange direction. I assume in those cases it's because it wasn't enough to double-click one new data entry, I needed to d-click for 2 or more of the entries.
The WAG comment, I would agree with the distance input being close (+-200 or so), the AoB I would say should be somewere in the ballpark +-30° but it was this input that I was saving for a last refinement "Mark" bearing command with a double-click send info.
Munchausen
01-19-09, 12:54 PM
The WAG comment, I would agree with the distance input being close (+-200 or so), the AoB I would say should be somewere in the ballpark +-30° but it was this input that I was saving for a last refinement "Mark" bearing command with a double-click send info.
The WAG was for the test ... to see if aft tubes were completely borked when using the TDC. In a surface battle, you wouldn't have time to guesstimate anything other than target speed.
But then, when eyeballing a 90 AOB, you wouldn't really need anything else. AOB would already be set and ready for a final bearing (mark). Range would also be set ... reflecting the skipper's attack strategy.
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