And this was in Slate

[Onkel Neal]

Why are so many oligarchs, royal families, and special-interest groups giving money to the Clinton Foundation? (http://www.slate.com/id/2208425/)

Here is a thought experiment that does not take very much thought. Picture, if you will, Hillary Clinton facing a foreign-policy conundrum. With whom will she discuss it first and most intently: with her president or her husband? (I did tell you that this wouldn't be difficult.) Here's another one: Will she be swayed in her foreign-policy decisions by electoral considerations focusing on the year 2012, and, if so, will she be swayed by President Barack Obama's interests or her own?

Worrisome, but she's expected to sail through the nom process, isn't she?

[NealT]

The interesting thing to me, anyway, is that this is how it really works in the real world anyway...back room deals made out of the public view and eye...so are we not just moving the back room stuff out into the front room so everyone can see it?

[Skybird]

Not that it is not the same at the other end of the political american spectrum... Lobbyism has become integral part of politics. In a democratic system, transparency and independance of politicians is a must - there cannot be a democratic system without transparency and independance from pirvate lobbies and business. Both conditions are not only not fulfilled, but are totally messed up. That'S why the system is screwed. Andn that is why I say since years we have no democracies left in the West - only oligarchies and plutocracies. Money rules politics now. It pays agencies to tell the public it all is democratic nevertheless.

On the other hand: in a democracy the vote or opinion of a stupid bada$$ counts as much and is valued as much as that of a noble highly intelligent mind. Shall nobody say democracy would be an ideal solution. It is not.

[TDK1044]

And as a matter of constitutional law, America is not a Democracy, it's a Republic. It's a sad indictment of our education system that most Americans don't even know that fact.

I really don't mind what Hillary Clinton's personal agenda is, as long as we see a significant improvement in our foreign policy over the next four years.

The world is already a very fragile place, and with more and more Americans demanding much less dependency on foreign oil, and much more investment in home grown initiatives as we strive for self sufficiency, having a smart and stready hand on the foreign policy rudder is now more important than ever in my view.

[Skybird]

Republic or not, it surely is a democratic republic - not a totalitarian run republic or a communist people's republic, right? You guys really make a fetish of such wordgames that in the end lead to nothing.

[TDK1044]

A failure to Understand the nature of our Republic and the Electoral College that supports it leads to naive misconceptions in Europe and the rest of the world.

[AVGWarhawk]

In short, she was a poor choice.

[TDK1044]

In short, she was a poor choice.

Yes. Promises were made in order to get her support. But it is what it is, AVG.

[AVGWarhawk]

Oh, absolutely! There were back room meetings if you recall. That old saying still rings true today...Keep your friends close. Keep your enemies closer..... Hillary will be running in 2012. I hope Obama does well but I sense a fizzle coming our way. She can enter stage left in 2012 and take all. She just needs to keep Bill at bay for now:roll:

[UnderseaLcpl]

Republic or not, it surely is a democratic republic - not a totalitarian run republic or a communist people's republic, right? You guys really make a fetish of such wordgames that in the end lead to nothing.


And on that note, I'd prefer "representative democracy", instead. Democratic Republic brings to mind the Democratic Republic of Congo. :D

[August]

http://pix.motivatedphotos.com/2009/1/4/633666990727770122-checkmate.jpg

[Skybird]

Well, Germany is a republic, too. We just do not make such a fuss about it. We leave that to the French - they are still counting. :smug:

[UnderseaLcpl]

Well, Germany is a republic, too. We just do not make such a fuss about it. We leave that to the French - they are still counting. :smug:

You mean you leave it to the French most of the time:rotfl: ;)

Sorry, I kid.

[Skybird]

No, no kidding. It's the second republic for us - but their fifth for them. :D

[Kapitan_Phillips]

lolfrance

[SteamWake]

Worrisome, but she's expected to sail through the nom process, isn't she?

Of course she is. These niggling little details will be overlooked.

[TDK1044]

I wonder if we've seen the last of Caribou Barbie?

Last I heard, Skybird was taking her out on a date. I'm told he took her to a restaurant called 'F**K your Republic, get your act together'. :D

[baggygreen]

No, no kidding. It's the second republic for us - but their fifth for them. :DZey shall get it right eventually! Zey are jus tryin to perfect ze systeme!

[Wolfehunter]

The interesting thing to me, anyway, is that this is how it really works in the real world anyway...back room deals made out of the public view and eye...so are we not just moving the back room stuff out into the front room so everyone can see it?There's a dream. But it should be so. No more crooks in politics.

[August]

I'm telling ya, Obama has Clinton checkmated. I'm giving her a year before she is forced to resign...

[fatty]

If you guys are really concerned that Michael Schumacher, the Government of Norway, and the National Opera of Paris are going to have a sway in American foreign policy because they gave charitable donations to a not-for-profit humanitarian aid organization founded by the husband of the next Secretary of State, I dunno what to tell you.

I think that if Hillary Clinton really has designs on the White House for 2012 or later then so much the better. That contest will hold her accountable for her actions as Secretary of State and will keep her on her best behaviour for the next few years :D

[Kapt Z]

Oh, absolutely! There were back room meetings if you recall. That old saying still rings true today...Keep your friends close. Keep your enemies closer..... Hillary will be running in 2012. I hope Obama does well but I sense a fizzle coming our way. She can enter stage left in 2012 and take all. She just needs to keep Bill at bay for now:roll:

Yes, deals were made as they would have been no matter who was chosen or who was the president-elect. The whole game is deals and rewards. Always has been.

Clinton(H) was a solid campaigner. In any other year she probably would have won. If she succeeds as SOS why not run in 2012?