New LCD Monitor - Advise

[Reece]

Hi, how many times I have thought about purchasing an LCD monitor I don't know!!:doh:
I have a 19" flat CRT monitor & quite happy but draws 500watts & since my power bill is around $800 per quarter I'm looking at ways to reduce this, CRT monitors are ony around 45Watts.:yep: There are so many it's mind boggling, I would like to stay with a square for games like SH3 for example but times are changing and square ones are getting rare, so I may have to go for a 22" or 24" wide, I am looking in the $300-$350 Au price range. Also what determines the quality? on the CRT it was Hfreq & dot pitch, I think the CRT response time is important, is there any other factors, also what has always scared me is dead pixels,:oops: is this still an issue?
Any advice is appreciated.:up:

[Reece]

Gee I don't think I can handle all this advise, it's overwhelming!:lol:

[AVGWarhawk]

Most of your monitors today do not experience dead pixels. I have not experienced any at home or work. In fact, I can not say the last time I saw a pixel issue on a monitor. Not to say that some come out of the box with a pixel issue. Just return it. 5ms response time is great and just about every monitor has that. I have a Samsung Syncmaster 220wm LCD. Super nice and price was $240.00. Worth every penny when used with digital input. Quality, go with your usual brands. Read reviews. at Newegg or Tigerdirect.

[Reece]

Thanks AVG, Samsung used to be really bad, their VCR's were so flimsy you could twist them in your hands 90 degrees!!:lol: Yes I tried with a dud & had so many to repair I vowed I'd never buy Samsung again ... But seems now reports from various forums saying their LCD screens are the best.:yep: Since I still enjoy SH3 what would you recommend square or Wide?:)
Cheers.

[Thomen]

I got a 4 year old 17 inch Xerox LCD. Best monitor I ever had. Unfortunately, they don't built those anymore. That thing has a glas plate in front of the matrix, so touchy touchy is allowed.

Been thinking about buying a new set of bigger monitors for some time, though. But my Finance Secretary (aka, my wife) will object when I buy 3 new screens for my computer with the old ones still working just fine.

[Reece]

You need to gaze at her when she's in a good mood with big soulfull eyes, look down every now and then and lower the bottom lip, Ive got it down to an art!:yep::up:

[McBeck]

Good brands are Samsung, LG and Viewsonic from my experience.

There are only a few companies that actuly produce the panels themselves - LG is one of them.

Go for Widescreen!!

[Zachstar]

Whatever you do ALWAYS remember.

"Over 20 and Wide!"

These days anything less than a 20 incher widescreen is useless. The only excuse is that it is a netbook. And even those are mostly wide these days.

Your eves focus far better on a widescreen image. It makes a world of difference.

The savings seem to come by sticking in the 22 inch widescreen range from what I have noticed.

Be on the lookout for any reports of light bleed however. It is not much when you are gaming but watching DVDs you will notice how the light on the edges.

[Zachstar]

This one is winning awards and has extremely high reviews. Also the price is NICE!

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824009145

[Reece]

Be on the lookout for any reports of light bleed however. It is not much when you are gaming but watching DVDs you will notice how the light on the edges.
Will do, thanks, I thought, once again in the old days, that Acer was bad, go figure, I will thus watch for the Acer X223Wbd, Samsung and LG models, 22" to 24" with 5ms responce, narrowing things down!:up:

[SteveW1]

Harvey Normans recently had a sale Reece, could have picked up a 22" Viewsonic Widescreen for $278. Just about all of my computer mates I speak to all say to go for Viewsonic's at the moment as they seem to be the better brand and have good warranty's.

Steve

[Reece]

Thanks for the Heads up Steve, will be shopping till I find that bargain!:up:

[Zachstar]

Harvey Normans recently had a sale Reece, could have picked up a 22" Viewsonic Widescreen for $278. Just about all of my computer mates I speak to all say to go for Viewsonic's at the moment as they seem to be the better brand and have good warranty's.

Steve

I got a 22 inch Viewsonic. I would not recommend it as the picture isn't very good and there is noticeable light bleed through.

[mengle]

[quote=Zachstar]This one is winning awards and has extremely high reviews. Also the price is NICE!

I also need a new monitor: what do you think of this one http://www.computerparts.be/artikelinfo/1610228/acer_b223wb_22__wide_10_000_1_5ms_dual

:hmm:

[Reece]

Interesting research, seems that 2ms is now quite common but ofcourse more expensive.:yep: Prices certainly vary but narrowing it down, I may have to wait till the end of next week to purchase but that gives me a bit more time.:up:

[Thomen]

You need to gaze at her when she's in a good mood with big soulfull eyes, look down every now and then and lower the bottom lip, Ive got it down to an art!:yep::up:

Mhm... :hmm:

Need to try this.. hehe

[Thomen]

Whatever you do ALWAYS remember.

"Over 20 and Wide!"

These days anything less than a 20 incher widescreen is useless. The only excuse is that it is a netbook. And even those are mostly wide these days.

Your eves focus far better on a widescreen image. It makes a world of difference.

The savings seem to come by sticking in the 22 inch widescreen range from what I have noticed.

Be on the lookout for any reports of light bleed however. It is not much when you are gaming but watching DVDs you will notice how the light on the edges.

You might be right, but what do you do when you can't use widescreens?

[Reece]

what do you do when you can't use widescreens?Use the edges as pinup board!!:lol:

[Thomen]

what do you do when you can't use widescreens?Use the edges as pinup board!!:lol:

Good one! :up:

[AVGWarhawk]

Thanks AVG, Samsung used to be really bad, their VCR's were so flimsy you could twist them in your hands 90 degrees!!:lol: Yes I tried with a dud & had so many to repair I vowed I'd never buy Samsung again ... But seems now reports from various forums saying their LCD screens are the best.:yep: Since I still enjoy SH3 what would you recommend square or Wide?:)
Cheers.

I have two Samsung DVD players. They are ok...and I mean, just ok. Then again, I did not pay a lot for them and you get what you pay for. However, I'm happy with them. My Samsung LCD screen I'm extremely happy with. It is build very well and I do not notice light bleed through as Zachstar is talking about. In fact, I do not know what it is so I could be looking at it and not even know light bleed was occuring. At any rate, the one I have has two built in speakers. They suck but it does not matter because I use Logitech 5.1 speaker system. A few mentioned Viewsonic and they have always been a good screen company since I can remember. LG has a nice LCD monitor out. Your Acer I do not believe will be the same quality as the Samsung, LG and Viewsonic.

[Reece]

Your Acer I do not believe will be the same quality as the Samsung, LG and Viewsonic.I'd tend to agree.:yep: These I have found so far within my price range:
LG W2252TQ-PF 22" 2ms
LG W2242T-BF 22" 5ms
Samsung 22" 2233BW 5ms
Samsung 22" 2243BW 5ms
Samsung 24" 2433BW 5ms
Viewsonic 22" VX2240W-2 2ms
ViewSonic 22" VX2262WM 2ms
ViewSonic 22" VX2255WMB 5ms
The 24" the most expensive, does any stand out?:D
Thanks.
Edit: Just sent an email off for Price & Availability for the 2433BW!

[AVGWarhawk]

These are all good. Just take a look at the response time. 2ms I believe is the better of the two response times. I forget. I would probably narrow down the list to either the Samsung or Viewsonic because of my experiences with these companies and the quality.

Also, check what hook ups they have. HDMI, analog, digital. My Samsung has analog and digital. HDMI is for digital TV. At least that is what my digital TV has to run digital signals. I did not get HDMI because I will not watch TV on my computer monitor. I have a 37 inch widescreen for that. For the full effect of the LCD monitor, go with digital hook up. Just make sure your vid card has digital output:up: You will notice a difference between analog and digital.

[Reece]

Due to my bad eye sight (getting old) the larger one appeals to me, the specs look good, has DVI and Analog RGB inputs::yep:
http://www.samsung.com/au/consumer/detail/spec.do?group=computerperipherals&type=monitor&subtype=lcdmonitor&model_cd=LS24CMKKFV/XY&fullspec=F
I'm still very nervous about dead pixels though!!:oops::roll:

[AVGWarhawk]

Looks like a winner to me. Do not worry about a bad pixel. I have not seen one in years. The only time I remember see a bad pixel was when they first started shoving these out the door to consumers. I have never had a monitor lose a pixel. Check warranty on the product. Can always return if it looses a pixel. Let me know how you like it when you get it. :D

[Zachstar]

Whatever you do ALWAYS remember.

"Over 20 and Wide!"

These days anything less than a 20 incher widescreen is useless. The only excuse is that it is a netbook. And even those are mostly wide these days.

Your eves focus far better on a widescreen image. It makes a world of difference.

The savings seem to come by sticking in the 22 inch widescreen range from what I have noticed.

Be on the lookout for any reports of light bleed however. It is not much when you are gaming but watching DVDs you will notice how the light on the edges.
You might be right, but what do you do when you can't use widescreens?

Get a new computer because anything past 2003 or so can support widescreen res.

[Reece]

Well I've placed the order,:D eta 2 to 3 weeks!!:dead::doh:

[AVGWarhawk]

Must be swimming it over:88)

[Reece]

Must be swimming it over:88)
Probably!! Was one of the lowest prices I've seen (AU $365) here in Australia & is at a local shop here, so yes probably coming from Korea by ship!:lol:
I hate being patient!!:yep:

[Thomen]

Whatever you do ALWAYS remember.

"Over 20 and Wide!"

These days anything less than a 20 incher widescreen is useless. The only excuse is that it is a netbook. And even those are mostly wide these days.

Your eves focus far better on a widescreen image. It makes a world of difference.

The savings seem to come by sticking in the 22 inch widescreen range from what I have noticed.

Be on the lookout for any reports of light bleed however. It is not much when you are gaming but watching DVDs you will notice how the light on the edges.
You might be right, but what do you do when you can't use widescreens?
Get a new computer because anything past 2003 or so can support widescreen res.

The computer may, but not the module (desktop) expander I use. Which locks me into using regular LCD monitors. :down:

[Reece]

Although I haven't yet got it I would like to be able to play SH3 in wide mode without stretching, according to some members this is done by Fixed Aspect Ratio, and most say only nVidia has it!!:cry:
I have an ATI HD4850 and run Tray tools (no ccc).
Can I utilize Fixed Aspect Ratio and what other software do I need, is Hydravision used for this?:-?

[Reece]

Gee I'm rather peeved off!!:nope: I gave the company a ring today to see if the monitor has arrived, they tell me it's no longer available and they don't know the replacement model or price, nice of them to let me know!!:down: now back to searching for another!!:hmmm:

[AVGWarhawk]

Now that is some excellent customer service if I every seen it:down: Back to square one.

[FIREWALL]

I got a 4 year old 17 inch Xerox LCD. Best monitor I ever had. Unfortunately, they don't built those anymore. That thing has a glas plate in front of the matrix, so touchy touchy is allowed.

Been thinking about buying a new set of bigger monitors for some time, though. But my Finance Secretary (aka, my wife) will object when I buy 3 new screens for my computer with the old ones still working just fine.

That problem is easily fixed. :har:

[FIREWALL]

You need to gaze at her when she's in a good mood with big soulfull eyes, look down every now and then and lower the bottom lip, Ive got it down to an art!:yep::up:



:haha: :har: :haha: :har: :salute: :yeah:

[Reece]

I like these new smilies, obviously FIREWALL does too!!:D:yeah::salute:

[CaptainHaplo]

I just ordered a 22" KDS for less than $180 (US) with free shipping. KDS has been making monitors for years and they are good quality. Biggest plus is the 3 year warranty - though I have never liked their stands much.

It will be replacing my 3 yr old Samsung that is only 19". I paid twice this much for the Samsung, and would have been a little concerned had it not been for the fact I have worked using KDS monitors many times and know they are good.

If you were not in Australia it probably wouldn't be a problem - but have you checked places like Newegg, TigerDirect, or even pricewatch to see if you can find a good monitor that won't cost an arm and a leg to ship to you?

[Reece]

Good news anyway, I just located a site in Adelaide that has one in stock and only $7 dearer, so I asked them to put it to one side till I can get down to the big smoke on thursday!!:D:yeah:

[Skybird]

What would you do:

Samsung 2253BW with 8000:1 and 2 ms for 190 Euros,

or

Samsung 2233BW with 20.000:1 and 5 ms for 190 Euros

or

LG Flatron W2252TQ-PF with 10.000:1 and 2 ms for 180 Euros?

They are all 22".

I tend to Samsung 2253, since I have very good experience with my new TV of that brand, and bad experience with a refrigerator by LG.

[CaptainHaplo]

Skybird, go with the 2233 with the higher contrast ratio. While there is no specific standard on contrast measuring, one would assume that Samsung would use the same standard between monitors. This means simply a sharper image.

The 5ms/2ms debate rages - but unless you have the 2 screens next to each other you wont tell a difference. Honestly - who the heck can tell a difference of 3 microseconds (.03 of a second) anyway? I sure as heck can't!

You should stand behind a company that has given you good expeiences in the past. Support with the $!

[Skybird]

thanks, I am considering it.

I will go to a store on monday and just watch both monitors side by side, I think. This is my third attempt on over two years to got for a TFT. My CRT went bad some month agao - and then recovered all by itself. Very mysterious. But it consumes four times as much power than those Samsungs with 45W.

I have an AGP-connected 7900GS (256 MB), with (unused)DVI-D and (used) RGB-connectors, running at 1280x1024, usually. I wonder if demanding games will show a frames drop with that higher resolution you run a 22" widescreen display at, 1680 x 1050 i think. I am especially worried concerning FS9, and Oblivion.

[CaptainHaplo]

The video card doesnt care how big the screen is. It will draw for example - 1280x1024 - at the same framerate on a 22" as on a tiny 14". It has to output the same number of pixels regardless of the real screesize. Thats really where you get into that "response time" thing. How fast are the pixels refreshed - every 5 microseconds or every 2? If you figure 5 microseconds - that means its updating the PIXELS 200 times a second. At an "average" of 60 frames per second gaming - its refreshing the pixels a little over three times per frame. At 2 microseconds your getting a pixel refresh (or change) up to 500 times per second. Thats 8+ times per frame rendered. Are you really going to notice the difference? The human eye is only so quick - most people can't tell a framerate difference above 60 - can they tell an individual PIXEL change 3x (or 8x) times faster?

Not this guy.

[Skybird]

I think you misunderstood me. I am currently on an old 19" 4:3 CRT, using 1280x960. The Samsung panels 22" 16:10 are recommended for best picture sharpness to be run at 16XX x 1050. Isn't that the new resolution I would need to run the graphics board at? In FS9, which is aleady balancing on a thin line between settings and frame rates, it certainly makes a difference in frames whether I run it at 1024x768, or 1280x960. 16xx x 1050 certainly are more pixels the board has to work on. Around 40% more.

Or do I fundamentally misunderstand something here?

[porphy]

Your right Sky, running the 22" in its native resolution 1680x1050 will push the computer more. In short, less good Fps. Especially if you crank up the Anti aliasing to x4 or beyond. The graphics in other than native resolutions are generally crap. :yep:

This is because the default way Nvidia drivers handles this, is that even if you choose say your old resolution 1280x960, the scaling will fill up the whole 22" and you loose the correct aspect ratio for this resolution. That looks really really bad. Your beloved Leopard tank will look too long for example... Things that are supposed to be circular are oval etc... :-?

The trick I use, is to change how the scaling is done. In the Nvidia control panel you can change the "flat panel scaling". You can then pick "use Nvidia scaling with fixed aspect ratio" or "no scaling" . First option fills out the screen as much as possible, but keeps correct aspect ratio, for example 4:3. Then the outpout will be reasonably crisp and clear, but you will have black borders around the picture, but only at the sides, as you don't use the full 22". The no scaling option will give you a really crisp picture, but if you go for say 1024x768 the display will look very small on the 22" monitor, probably with black borders even above and under the output.

This is the way I handle games that simply gets too demanding in the monitors native resolution. Or older games that doesn't support higher resolutions out of the box. Sure you miss out on the full 22" experience, but I prefer good and fluid games with crisp graphics. This way you can still choose how you want to do in every case, just as with your Crt. And you still have the full 22" for some games and desktop work, and with less power consumption. :up:

One last thing that complicates this a bit is that many Nvidia driver versions won't allow the scaling options I mentioned. They will be greyed out or revert back when changed. You need to download and run a small exe thing called "Enable overscan compensation", and then restart the computer. In most cases (depends on driver version) you now have access to all scaling options in the control panel and they should stick, so you only need to do this once. all this works with Nvidias latest certified driver for my 8800 GTS.

Good luck with the new monitor. I haven't missed my old Crt, and I run the Samsung 226BW with 2 ms and 3000:1 contrast. :yep:

cheers Porphy

[Skybird]

Thanks Porphy, that info comes handy. the only two games where i must worry over frames, is FS9, and Oblivion. While the latter is no porblem to be run in letterbox mode, with FS9 the smaller picture size may be a problem, since I use very complex cockpit modules with plents of small letters in virtual cockpit mode. A 22" widescreen is as high as a 19" 4:3, so loosing a quarter of height really makes it smaller.

On the bother hand, all other applications may benefit from a new screen, since I am not interested in new games and play very very rarely only. And if so, it is mostly Chess and CoSims.

SBP will implement a new, more detailed and I think more hardware-friendly data standard for the vehicle models when the new upgrade is released. I do not expect serious problems there anyway, since i run it with good frames. And one day, a new computer becomes mandatory anyway, this current one will not live forever.

[Skybird]

Do TFTs make noise?

I have very often now read complaints by customers that their TFTs make whimpering, high pitched, squeaking sounds. I have very good ears, and I am sensitive to such things, I hate them. I want my display working silent.

Is this a real issue?

[porphy]

Never heard of that one really, at least my monitor is dead silent. A graphics card can actually "squeal" in some applications, which I have heard myself in connection with Dangerous Waters, very weird indeed, but I doubt the TFT monitor itself makes any disturbing noise. My system is very silent, as I hate distracting computer sounds as well (fans, vibrations, and what not...) and I can hear nothing from the monitor even if I try hard.

cheers Porphy

[Reece]

Do TFTs make noise?Depends on the quality of the switch mode supply, if the unit runs hot this can happen after a long time, but happens more with a CRT as the more modern ones had a switch mode supply as well as the EHT that often generated a high pitch after years of use,:hmmm: should be ok with good quality monitors.:salute:

[Skybird]

Well, I found this being mentioned in customer feedbacks at German Amazon, and not rarely. It seems to be especially a problem, so it is reported, with monitors with bright pictures being regulated down in brightness. It is not the graphics board causing it. On Austrian boards I found many customers saying their shops told them that with some models it is a technical design flaw with the background light. Namely the Samsung 2253 and the T220 are said to be vulnerable to this problem. Think if I buy one I stay with the 2233.

[Reece]

I have done quite a lot of research on the 2433 & had no bad reports from the various forums except fitting the base, I would say the 2233 would be basically the same, my monitor has been put to one side (in stock) & I have been sent an invoice, will be picking it up thursday, hopefully will be a good one,:yeah:the 2233 & 2433 are no longer availabe & has been replaced by a new model, so just bare that in mind, you may have to act quickly if you really want that model before stock has depleted.:03:
You may also be interested in this review:
http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=17945456

[Skybird]

Yes, the base of the Samsungs is a concern. Anyway, I'll go to a store this afternoon and have a look at the models in real substance. I have put the LG 2252 back on the list of options since it has gotten 100% ratings from customers whereever I looked, and won magazine awards as well. Seems to be a decent piece of hardware, no doubt.

[Skybird]

Happyman reporting life from my desktop. I went with the LG monitor in the end, because it got a significant higher share of all-out positive feedbacks from customers in German forums, than the Samsungs. I do not regret it. I was stunned to see how much the picture quality (colour, contrast, brightness) improved, compared to my 9 year old CRT 19". It's a quantum leap, not to mention the higher resolution.


However, all bases I checked in a store, of monitors ranging from 150 - 450 Euros, are a joke. "Solid stand" is a word from a foreign language, it seems. Every small touch to the desk seem to make the monitors to vibrate more or less obvious these days.


In the end, one feature made a difference for me, and that is why I decided for the LG nevertheless. I don'T know if other monitors copy it like this, but at least I did not found it advertised. As I said, I worried about the graphics board eventually not handling the higher workload with the higher resolution, when doing FS9 or Oblivion. While I do loose 0.5-1 frame indeed from jumping from 1280x960 to 1680x1050, this is so minor that I can ignore it. FS9 is not gfx-demanding, but CPU-demanding, and I take benefit from that in this situation. However: those of you needing to worry about a comparable situation when still using an older system, the LG monitor allows you by pressing a button on the monitor to run the monitor in a 4:3 hardware mode, and if you run the critical sim at a 4:3 resolution like you used to do before (set the resolution in the options inside the sim), you will get that exact frame rate and nevertheless unscaled, native crystal-clear laser sharp image quality - without need to launch a software application, without resetting software options before and after running that sim, by simply pressing a button on the monitor exterior. Can't get much more comfortable. I checked the thing with the frames in FS9, and believe me, it works like I said.


If you need to worry about your gfx board handling a widescreen, this info might be helpful to you.


Superb bang-for-the-buck ratio, superb picture quality. LG W2252TQ comes highly recommended.

[porphy]

Seems like a good choice Sky. How are colours when flying a dark sky in dusk or dawn? My Samsung monitor is not always capable of displaying the ranges of dark to light colours without banding (clear lines where the transition from dark blue to lighter blue, for example, isn't smooth.) This is my only complaint about my monitor compared to the old crt one.

The feature with 4:3 aspect ratio on the monitor is neat indeed. Much better to have the hardware manage this scaling, especially as Nvidia never manages to fix this broken option in their drivers.

I'm a bit unsure though, how this works. Does it work even if I would choose 1680x1050 for resolution in the sim, because you say the 4:3 aspect ratio display is still in the monitors native resolution? It seems to me that the picture wouldn't come out right then. Don't you still have to pick a resolution in the game which is made for 4:3 aspect ratio, and then push the button when you run the game to enforce the right ratio?

cheers Porphy

[AVGWarhawk]

Gosh Skybird, CRT compared to LCD, specifically a 9 year old CRT, should be the difference between night and day. Not to mention the new found desk space with a LCD. Are you running the LCD with the digital cable or analog? Digital makes all the difference int the world. :yeah:

[Skybird]

Running a DVI cable.

Porphy, maybe I lacked verbal precision, but indeed, while the desktop resolution is now 1680x1050, and when using the 4:3 hardware button, you need to select a 4:3 resolution inside the game, yes. The point is that this is a very comfortable way to achieve this, compared to the separate software somebody recommended some posts above to do that. You simply hit that button, and you're done for that game. You leave the game, hit that button again, et voila! the resolution is crispy, since it is hardware 4:3 resolution you set, and no scaling is being done by the monitor. The result is not new, but it seems to be very easy to achieve here.

I tested it with a couple of games, and probably will use it in ArmA and Oblivion, both of which suffer a bit from the 1680-resolution. Both games look very well, using this 4:3 feature. And again: very easy to achieve the wanted outcome. Press-and-forget.

I got the monitor for 180 euros. For that price, I really cannot complain about colours and how dark areas are looking. For a monitor in the recommended price range of 200-250 euros, to me it seems to be very good. The monitor won several awards last year in German magazines, 1st place for price-value, and some quality awards for monitors in that price segment.

Can it be done better? Probably yes. For this smile price? Don't think so. And if this ones lives only three years, I will cry less than if I have spend 400 Euros or more. I am still somewhat alarmed of the longevity of TFTs compared to CRTs.

What I also liked is that it was truly plug-and-play. Easy-to-reach buttons for picture settings. you can, but you must not install additional software drivers.

Running "Dream Aquarium" has just fooled my parents for some seconds, who visited me by surprise while I just had unpacked the thing. :D

[AVGWarhawk]

I am still somewhat alarmed of the longevity of TFTs compared to CRTs.

Why? I have one that has been going over 5 years and is still being used today. I have never lost a pixel or had a light bulb go out. The TFT quality is good.

[porphy]

Running a DVI cable.

Porphy, maybe I lacked verbal precision, but indeed, while the desktop resolution is now 1680x1050, and when using the 4:3 hardware button, you need to select a 4:3 resolution inside the game, yes. The point is that this is a very comfortable way to achieve this, compared to the separate software somebody recommended some posts above to do that. You simply hit that button, and you're done for that game. You leave the game, hit that button again, et voila! the resolution is crispy, since it is hardware 4:3 resolution you set, and no scaling is being done by the monitor. The result is not new, but it seems to be very easy to achieve here.

I tested it with a couple of games, and probably will use it in ArmA and Oblivion, both of which suffer a bit from the 1680-resolution. Both games look very well, using this 4:3 feature. And again: very easy to achieve the wanted outcome. Press-and-forget.

I got the monitor for 180 euros. For that price, I really cannot complain about colours and how dark areas are looking. For a monitor in the recommended price range of 200-250 euros, to me it seems to be very good. The monitor won several awards last year in German magazines, 1st place for price-value, and some quality awards for monitors in that price segment.

Can it be done better? Probably yes. For this smile price? Don't think so. And if this ones lives only three years, I will cry less than if I have spend 400 Euros or more. I am still somewhat alarmed of the longevity of TFTs compared to CRTs.

What I also liked is that it was truly plug-and-play. Easy-to-reach buttons for picture settings. you can, but you must not install additional software drivers.

Running "Dream Aquarium" has just fooled my parents for some seconds, who visited me by surprise while I just had unpacked the thing. :D

Ah, thanks for the clarification. That button is good. I wish my monitor had that press and forget function. :yep:

Every time I change graphic drivers I have to fiddle with the software tool that allows for no scaling in nvidia control panel. And even then it's not always reliable, as the option sometimes revert back... :nope:

[Skybird]

I heared people's TFTs going broke after just some years, and that LCD-TV do not live as long as CRT-TV - maybe not even half as long. Pretty much everybody seem to say LCDs do not live as long. - If that proves to be wrong, I certainly will not complain.

[AVGWarhawk]

I heared people's TFTs going broke after just some years, and that LCD-TV do not live as long as CRT-TV - maybe not even half as long. Pretty much everybody seem to say LCDs do not live as long. - If that proves to be wrong, I certainly will not complain.

There is no doubt that LCD has come a long way from those first on the market. I was skeptical many years ago letting go of my CRT. But, as time has proven with the LCD I have, longevity is there. :up:

[goldorak]

Skybird forget about widescreen monitors, at least for the type of games you're willing to run. Get a nice 1600x1200 4:3 lcd 20" monitor and you'll never regret not buying a widescreen one. If you really really have to get a widescreen, and you don't want to loose vertical resolution get a 1920x1200 one.

[Task Force]

Heres the one Im using. No issues with it.
http://www.hannspree.com/US/product_detail.aspx?id=23792&c=25693
no noticeable performance drop with my 8800gts.

[Skybird]

Skybird forget about widescreen monitors, at least for the type of games you're willing to run. Get a nice 1600x1200 4:3 lcd 20" monitor and you'll never regret not buying a widescreen one. If you really really have to get a widescreen, and you don't want to loose vertical resolution get a 1920x1200 one.
You're a little bit too late. :up: And i do not regret to have gone widescreen, both monitor- and TV-wise.

[Reece]

Please tell what you ended up getting Skybird, I have to go down today to pick up my screen, I'm getting anxious!!:yeah:

[AVGWarhawk]

Skybird forget about widescreen monitors, at least for the type of games you're willing to run. Get a nice 1600x1200 4:3 lcd 20" monitor and you'll never regret not buying a widescreen one. If you really really have to get a widescreen, and you don't want to loose vertical resolution get a 1920x1200 one.
You're a little bit too late. :up: And i do not regret to have gone widescreen, both monitor- and TV-wise.

I did not regret widescreen either. I let the vid card detect the best resolution or native resolution and it was perfect. SH4, COD, Jutland all play on the 22 wide and look fantastic. :D

[Onkel Neal]

Well, Reece, what's the verdict? Nice, huh? :D

I just received this montior from New Egg (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824009136) only $99!
http://c1.neweggimages.com/NeweggImage/productimage/24-009-136-05.jpg




Yes, I know, not widescreen, and only 17".... can anyone tell me why I specifically went for this monitor??? (other than being a cheap bastage :03: )


,

[AVGWarhawk]

No idea you went for the 17 inch.

[CaptainHaplo]

If I had to guess - I would say its for an older system you keep around to play the "classics" - they dont translate real well to the big monitors.

[Reece]

Hi all, well I have just installed it & not too sure what to think, looks nice, but on the forum the top of the monitor is dark gray and the bottom is light gray, adjusting the tilt seems to have little effect or worse, is this normal? I installed the driver ok & the supplied disc also has 2 apps called Magic Tune Premium (MTP) & Natural Color Pro (NCP), both installed ok with icons on Quicklaunch bar and desktop, when I launch NCP the computer resets & when I launch MTP a dialog box displays "Monitor Not Supported" then goes to support screen!!:hmmm: Not a good start!!:cry:
Running Win XP Pro SP3 ATI HD4850, screen res at 1680 x 1050 with forced 4xAA.
Edit: What I may have to do is disconnect the internet, then shutdown Comodo, it's possible the Defence+ is causing problems, then install and test.

[Skybird]

Sounds like the background light to me. TFTs have one disadvantage: the brightness varies depending on the angle at which you look at it. I assume the more money you spend the less a problem it is. By tendency, I have an effect like this, too, but it is so minor that I only realise it in very dark, black pictures - then I have a very low, hazy grey shine at the upper and lower frame of the monitor, 2-4 mm wide. but again: very minor, it does not irritate me, and invisible in everything but very dark pictures. But after all I only spend 180 Euros for a regular priced 250 Euros-monitor. I could as well spend 400-500 Euros on a monitor of the same size.

[goldorak]

Lcd is a transitory technology, the holy grail in display technology (barring 3d) is oled.
You get all the advantages of CRT's with the advantages of lcd's.
The problem for the moment being price and lifetime of the panels.

[Reece]

Yes it's hard to describe but I would say that it is a consistant lighter or paler colors at the botom of the screen to darker deeper color to the top, it's a constant gradual from bottom to top, maybe more noticable with 24", damned bigger than I thought it would be, I use the lower res so that the font size is larger overall and easier to read. I also have set the monitor to 60hz, I think this is correct, I'm using 1680 x 1050, seems about the best for my eyes.:yep:

[porphy]

Most Lcd monitors have this effect, but as Skybird says, usually a minor one.

So if the effect is very marked on your monitor something might need to change with how you are postioned in relation to the screen. Which viewing angle do you get when the monitor is put in place on your desk? It sounds like you could benefit from getting your viewpoint higher or more straight ahead, that is avoid looking at the monitor from a slightly low position, if you do so it will turn more dark at the top as you describe. Can you adjust the stand up and down?

Also, is the 1680x1050 really the native resolution for that 24" monitor? If you need bigger text etc to see it clearly, it might be better to change how big text fonts and icons you use in windows, rather than lowering the resolution to a non native one.


cheers Porphy

[Skybird]

If you have a small LED blinker or something like that making a tiny light spot, switch off the screen so that it is black, sit at the desk and type. Keep that position , your normal working or playin g psoiton, and keep it exactly. Put the light exactly between your eyes, and see the reflection of it on the monitor. Horizontally, you want to see it exactly on the centerline between left and right side of the monitor, and vertically in the middle of the upper half, that means if you move down from top to bottom: the borderline between Top and second quarter of the screen.

That would be the academical way to approach the problem of how to sit correctly at a screen. :know: :haha:

24" is not small, make sure you are sitting at a distance from it. I have a 22", and my eyes are positioned one and a half arms length away from the screen. The more away you are, the smaller is the angle from your eyes to top and bottom of the screen. the smaller the angle, the smaller the effect of differing brightness and colours when looking at different parts of the screen.

For 22", 1680x1050 already is hardware native resolution. I don't know but maybe for 24" it is even higher. Avoid to increase font sizes by using general greater font size settings (there is one that allows you two switch between two or three sizes), it may make older games not displaying correctly. Instead, go to right-click-on-desktop/Eigenschaften/Darstellung/Erweitert and finetune the wanted font for any element type on desktop manually. It takes more time, but you do it only once. For using Words, do not use the Words icon, but create a shortcut to an empty word document where you already have readjust page format and fonts to your liking. Use this to start Words. Write-protect this document, of course, so that you do not overwrite it. That way it is also the most easy option to have several different document formats available to start Words with without needing to fiddle with the menues inside Words to find the scheme you want, which takes more time. Just have several .doc-shortcuts on your desktop.

[Reece]

Thanks Porphy, the proper size for this monitor is 1920 x 1200, however with forced 4xAA this is a drag on the system, I went to the system color control (ATI Tray Tools) and adjusted the gamma from 1.00 to 0.75, what a huge difference, looks a lot better now.:yeah:
I might get to like this!!:D

[AVGWarhawk]

Ah, you got your screen:up: Some tweaks with the ATI? Look nice?

[Onkel Neal]

If I had to guess - I would say its for an older system you keep around to play the "classics" - they dont translate real well to the big monitors.

You so totally :rock:

That's exactly right. My P133 with Win95 would not support my 19" Samsung monitor, caused problems playing really old games. The 17" is perfect.

:salute:

[CaptainHaplo]

Neal - thats why I say thank God for the makers of DosBox - those guys really did us a service!