Whale Wars

[Enigma]

Anyone familiar with the Discovery channel show of the same name may be interested in this article... (http://www.salon.com/wires/ap/world/2009/01/07/D95INFC80_as_antarctica_whaling/index.html)

I don't like the idea of legal whaling. I'd prefer it were completely outlawed. However, having watched this show, I didn't come away with any feeling of sympathy or support for the radicals on board the "Irwin". They sail at high speed in dangerous proximity to the whaling boats, putting her crew at danger who, after all, are just sailors at work. ...pelting the deck with stink bombs and flour bombs, etc, then seem surprised when the Japanese sailors take defensive actions (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clI0kmTWKYs)<---WARNING** SERIES FINALE SPOILER!

i won't ruin the finale in case any of you saw are waiting to see it, (it's the video above, in part...) but for those who have seen it, the climax was clearly staged in my opinion. A fake. A Freud. :nope:

[Falkirion]

Yeah they were probably thinking that people will take their point of view throughout the whole thing. Good on the Japanese for fighting back.

I've seen the Irwin in person too, she'd be a tough target at night to track if she was running dark.

[Thomen]

Anyone familiar with the Discovery channel show of the same name may be interested in this article... (http://www.salon.com/wires/ap/world/2009/01/07/D95INFC80_as_antarctica_whaling/index.html)

I don't like the idea of legal whaling. I'd prefer it were completely outlawed. However, having watched this show, I didn't come away with any feeling of sympathy or support for the radicals on board the "Irwin". They sail at high speed in dangerous proximity to the whaling boats, putting her crew at danger who, after all, are just sailors at work. ...pelting the deck with stink bombs and flour bombs, etc, then seem surprised when the Japanese sailors take defensive actions (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clI0kmTWKYs)<---WARNING** SERIES FINALE SPOILER!

i won't ruin the finale in case any of you saw are waiting to see it, (it's the video above, in part...) but for those who have seen it, the climax was clearly staged in my opinion. A fake. A Freud. :nope:

While it looked interesting in the trailers, I havent watched it yet, and probably wont watch it.


I don't like the idea of legal whaling


Same here. I'd say sink both side of the dispute..

[Aramike]

Yeah they were probably thinking that people will take their point of view throughout the whole thing. Good on the Japanese for fighting back.

I've seen the Irwin in person too, she'd be a tough target at night to track if she was running dark.Yeah, although whaling sucks that doesn't excuse the behavior of these idiots.

[Zachstar]

Just want to say their radar sucks. Seems a WW2 sub could do better than these idiots.

And yes I say idiots because it is people like them that have turned whaling into a nationalism thing.

However, This business of accepting being terrorized on the high seas is likely to come to an end soon. Either the Japanese military has stashed a commando force on one of the whale boats or they are preparing to lob a weapon at it. In my opinion.

Why else do you think Japan is acting so weirdly? No reports of flash grenades or more fantasy assassination attempts.

My guess is the crew of the hostile ship will either be captured and taken back to Japan for trial and the Irwin scuttled. Or they are waiting for the right moment to blow them out of the water.

And what will happen? They will die or rot in jail but so will whaling. The fleet goes out in defiance because it is costing several times more to go out than they get from supposed profits selling the whale meat. When it goes back to just Greenpeace taking pictures I suspect they will just shut down.

[nikimcbee]

Where's the IJN? These guys are flying a pirate flag, I'd sink them on sight. what's discovery channel going to do next; a show on eco-terrorists spiking trees or blowing up SUVs?

I'm not really a fan of whaling, but I hate this "in your face extreme enviromentalism." So, I'd invite the ecos over for a whale lunch.

[Letum]

So long as there is a healthy whale population I am quite happy with hunting them.
I am happy to hunt any animal that has a healthy population. In fact, it is often
preferable to farming so far as animal welfare goes.

I have no idea how healthy whale populations are. Such a shame so many whale
species are no longer found in the Atlantic due to hunting. It's a shame there is no way
to reintroduce and repopulate the Atlantic with the species now only found in the Pacific.

So far as the anti-whaling groups go; I don't want to see anyone hurt, but aside from
that, what the hell is the IJN doing sitting on it's backside?! Go arrest, seize and sink. :arrgh!:

[Tchocky]

Where's the IJN?

At the bottom of Truk lagoon sice c. 1945 :p

[Blacklight]

I watched that show once. The activists came off as complete idiots and jerks rather than the sympathetic activists they are supposed to be. Agreed. They're a danger to the crews of the whaling ships as well as to themselves. There's other ways to go about this that are a LOT safer for all involved.

I hate whaling and wish they would outlaw it, but I totally think these ships have the right to defend themselves against these idiots. It's only a matter of time before they cause a serious accident.

[Letum]

I hate whaling[...]

Why?
Do you think it is different form deer hunting, cow farming, etc.?

[A Very Super Market]

Does anyone remember the ALF? (No, not the alien) They managed to disrupt a million-dollar operation, destroy a lab, and ruin years of hard work all for their rampant sense of guilt.

Yeah, extreme enviromentalists are jerks. Whaling was not okay when they were all dying out, but since most whales are on an extreme rebound, it should be perfectly fine to harvest them.

[baggygreen]

Most common reason I can find that people hate whaling is the method.

We dont have much (read: any) exposure to harp seal hunts, which are pretty gruesome, but the whales are simply too big to be killed by explosive-tipped harpoons. it injures them, but they tend to still be very much alive and kicking when they're dragged up into the ships' meatgrinders tailfirst. thats pretty rough.

Cattle, for instance, are at least knocked completely unconscious before having their throats cut. At the abbatoir an hours drive from here, one bloke thought it would be funny not to knock the cow out first. He copped it from the cow bigtime, and then got the sack as well. So it's an industry attempting to be as humane as possible, at least up the road here.

When hunting game, if your first shot doesnt kill it, you put it out of its misery before you begin carving it up. Doesn't happen often with the whales.

Why not, rather than tip harpoons with explosives, tip them with a concoction of deadly drugs? Similar to lethal injection?

[SandyCaesar]

I consider myself a relative environmentalist, but those extremists are terrorists. Piracy on the high seas should still be punished; if they're doing it off Arabia, why not in the Pacific? Catch and jail!

(For everyone agitating for the IJN to come out, they're not going to do that, since they've been on the bottom for nigh on 60 years now. The JMSDF (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JMSDF), now, that's a different story...:know:)

As for whale harvesting, I still don't think that whale populations are ready for full-time hunting; despite the fact that they're rebounding that would be too easily reversed. All the same, it doesn't excuse the behavior of idiots like the Irwin crew.

[August]

Why not, rather than tip harpoons with explosives, tip them with a concoction of deadly drugs? Similar to lethal injection?

It would have to be a pretty big dose given the animals size and it'd have to be something that doesn't poison the meat.

[Zachstar]

I think terrorists is too harsh a term to use.

They are very much militant. But I think pirate is a better term.

The crew of the whaling ships know what will be against them so it is not terrorism. And to their credit. Sea Shepherd does not run and hide after their attacks. Or hide behind anything but their own egos.

I believe that by Maritime law. They can be fired on for attacking a vessel at sea. And by that token if they are engaged they cannot be charged with terrorism if they throw a rock at the incoming harpoon.

Terrorism is when and if they attack some random unarmed cargo carrier that has no idea it is carrying whale meat.

[A Very Super Market]

Of course not full-time hunting, thats absurd. Full-time hunting is what brought them down in the first place. The current whaling situation is very sustainable, fact is, the only populations that aren't rebounding are ones that live in high-traffic areas like the US East coast. Collisions, tangling, and other human mishaps bring down more unintended whales than poaching.

As for the JMSDF, I know its a joke, just saying that missile strikes on a dinky little thing like the Irwin might end up killing whales anyways. What exactly is in those things?

The same reason whales don't tend to die from explosive-harpoons is the same reason drugs would be ineffective, too large. Lethal injection for humans costs 86 dollars. (Not counting court costs :up: ) Mature Minke whales (Most numerous) are like, 5-8 tons, so they weigh 10,000-16,000 pounds and are 50-80 times the size of a human. Assuming that most lethal injectees are at least 200 pounds, it would cost $4300-6880 for enough poison. Doesn't seem like much? Poison takes time to circulate through the body, and attacked whales will dive, so you need to fire multiple harpoons at them, which aren't very accurate, coupled with a limited quota for whales. Not very enticing. With exploding ones, a good shot at a crippled one will mercy-kill it at least. I don't think using cyanide would be very humane either.

We don't really eat whale meat, its mostly for the oil and blubber

[Zachstar]

A harpoon would blow right through it and likely cause a fireball as well as an explosion. A few shells would do the same.

However there is nowhere near enough crap inside it to cause a major problem. The fireball would consume most of the nonmetal parts within seconds and there simply isn't enough mass for it to do anything even if it just fell apart.

Not that I am saying it will happen. They may let their citizens be battled again this year. But eventually enough will be enough.

[A Very Super Market]

Pirates steal ships and their cargo, so these guys obviously aren't pirates. I think the term terrorist is perfectly fine. Terrorists aren't defined by hiding, they're defined by being unlawful. Ramming and sinking (so they claim) ships that are doing perfectly legal jobs doesn't strike me as very heroic at all.

As for what the Japanese ships do, I don't think firing an explosive harpoon at a ship would be a good idea. It goes WAY past self-defense and into sadism. Problem is, these guys have more sympathy for animals than other human beings, and thats so hypocritical I can't believe it.

[Zachstar]

Are you kidding me?

Have you looked at the history of Sea Shepherd?

Tell you what. Go ahead and read up.

They have already boarded craft before. If they weren't intercepted their destination was surely to open the locks and flood the ship in my view. And while their PR makes you think they care about those on the ship. There are many inside Sea Shepherd that would rather see the men die (They will never admit this to the public of course). They likely think it is somehow a fitting revenge for killing whales.

BTW even if it is rotten butter. Throwing a substance meant to disupt on the deck of another ship is considered an enemy attack. And justification for weapons hot. They KNOW this and do not care. Several of the crew of these vessels has been harmed by their "Harmless" attacks. From injuries from slipping on the stuff to contact with the substance itself.

ALso they have shown willingness to board another vessel with the intent to sink in my view. Their PR spins the boarding last year as some kind of "Arresting the messenger" but that was after they were caught. Messages can be sent over radio or thowing a stack of papers over when they do their interception.

[Zachstar]

BTW what I mean by Harpoon

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_Harpoon

[A Very Super Market]

Urm, maybe I've been confusing. I'm arguing on your side. I'm fine with them being called terrorists because they are unlawfully attacking ships. I realize that they don't give a damn about the whalers' lives. I'm saying that the terrorists themselves are exaggerating their "sinkings".

[Letum]

Most common reason I can find that people hate whaling is the method.[...]

Natural death in the wild is not much less grim and far more prolonged.
Slow starvation, attack by other whales and finally, drowning.
Give me an explosive harpoon, grinders or anything else that last less than 48 hours any day.

It's a tough world. Life and death are grim for most animals. Being an active part of that
grimness ourselves by hunting and killing does not make it any worse.