This Is How the "Left" Thinks

[Aramike]

I've always considered myself a "centrist". Frankly, I like to find holes in the arguments of both sides of the political spectrum. Often, this is far more interesting to me than the issues themselves.

New York Times columnist Thomas Friedman gives us a great insight into how some people on the left think in this column. (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/24/opinion/24friedman.html). In it he complains about, amongst other things, his cellphone dropping calls. He claims that, Landing at Kennedy Airport from Hong Kong was, as I’ve argued before, like going from the Jetsons to the Flintstones. Here's another odd quote:All I could think to myself was: If we’re so smart, why are other people living so much better than us?REALLY? Thomas Friedman apparently believes that how many bars his cellphone gets and how clean Penn Station's floors are serve as indicators for quality of life.

Abe Greenwald from Commentary Magazine wrote a very poignant response (http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs/index.php/greenwald/47772). Here's a gem of a quote:The Chinese live better than us? That’s insulting. No, not to us - to the poor Chinese! With their industrial slaves, toxic red seas, multicolored air, ethnic warfare, human trafficking, forced population relocations, birth fines, and dam collapses, Thomas Friedman gives them an A+ on the Super Sci-Fi Cellular Network Global Connectivity Scale and calls it a day.Interesting...

[SUBMAN1]

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

Typical.

-S

[Diopos]

He's not the right left! Right?
:D

[Digital_Trucker]

He's not the right left! Right?
:D

I almost started marching at that one:rotfl:

[PeriscopeDepth]

There should be a sticky at the top of this forum. It would be the most popular thread on GT. And it would be called "My politics is bigger than your politics".

PD

[mookiemookie]

As a lefty, I'd just like to say that Friedman is pretty much regarded as an idiot on our side of the spectrum as well.

[Enigma]

I read Friedman's article yesterday. The OP clearly didn't. Gross misrepresentation, as usual.

[Aramike]

There should be a sticky at the top of this forum. It would be the most popular thread on GT. And it would be called "My politics is bigger than your politics".

PDThis isn't about politics. This is about intellectual honesty, hypocrisy, and elitism.

It's about the way that both sides of the aisle skew everything in order to try to make their points resonate.

This is about the way that elements on the left continuously blame the right for this "rich, white guy" mentality then elect Ted Kennedy again and again. This is elements on the right unilaterally claim that taxation is bad, then go on to spend billions without accounting for it.

In Friedman's column alone you see example after example of him taking an element out of context in order to make his argument for a better US infrastructure. If your point is so damned valid, why do you have to be so "pie-in-the-sky" about it?

We just see this phenomenon again and again. In the abortion debate alone, we have primarily two sides which are absurdly titled "prolife" and "pro-choice". The right-wing acts as though it's somehow the moral highground on general issues of life, then go on to be for capital punishment. The left-wing acts as though the only choice that is presented is AFTER conception. Why not just tell the truth? Why these grand, bullsh** titles instead of the REAL positions of anti-abortion and pro-abortion?

These are the things I find interesting/frustrating. Thomas Friedman is just another case-in-point. He just made it REAL easy to post about.

[joegrundman]

This isn't about politics. This is about intellectual honesty, hypocrisy, and elitism.

gosh so many political dog whistles in one and a half sentences and yet you claim to be in the center.

And i suppose you also feel that you yourself are displaying this thing called intellectual honesty in the topic and title

[Aramike]

This isn't about politics. This is about intellectual honesty, hypocrisy, and elitism.

gosh so many political dog whistles in one and a half sentences and yet you claim to be in the center.

And i suppose you also feel that you yourself are displaying this thing called intellectual honesty in the topic and titleYes. And I suppose you have a reason why I'm wrong other than the fact that I'm pointing out the flaw of a lefty instead of a righty?

I wonder if you'd still be all riled up were I to point out the inconsistancies of Rush Limbaugh... Somehow I doubt it. The title is honest. Like it or not. It would be the same if I were criticizing Ann Coulter (who I find to be a somewhat obnoxious dolt).

And that is what intellectual honesty is.

[A Very Super Market]

I'm fairly certain that the "right" would be just as pissed off if you took a quote from say.... Fred Phelps, and then claimed that all right-wingers thought like that.

[Aramike]

If you seriously wanted to claim intellectual honesty you should have titled the thread "This is how Thomas Friedman thinks".I'm fairly certain that the "right" would be just as pissed off if you took a quote from say.... Fred Phelps, and then claimed that all right-wingers thought like that.I guess having the word "Left" in QUOTES was too subtle for some people? :|\\

...but you'd think that'd be cleared up by using the phrase "some people" in the third sentence. :doh:

Heh, I'm sure people on the right would be pissing and moaning over the same stuff, though. :damn:

Edit: Do you people on the left disagree with Friedman?

[PeriscopeDepth]

There should be a sticky at the top of this forum. It would be the most popular thread on GT. And it would be called "My politics is bigger than your politics".

PDThis isn't about politics. This is about intellectual honesty, hypocrisy, and elitism.

It's about the way that both sides of the aisle skew everything in order to try to make their points resonate.

This is about the way that elements on the left continuously blame the right for this "rich, white guy" mentality then elect Ted Kennedy again and again. This is elements on the right unilaterally claim that taxation is bad, then go on to spend billions without accounting for it.

In Friedman's column alone you see example after example of him taking an element out of context in order to make his argument for a better US infrastructure. If your point is so damned valid, why do you have to be so "pie-in-the-sky" about it?

We just see this phenomenon again and again. In the abortion debate alone, we have primarily two sides which are absurdly titled "prolife" and "pro-choice". The right-wing acts as though it's somehow the moral highground on general issues of life, then go on to be for capital punishment. The left-wing acts as though the only choice that is presented is AFTER conception. Why not just tell the truth? Why these grand, bullsh** titles instead of the REAL positions of anti-abortion and pro-abortion?

These are the things I find interesting/frustrating. Thomas Friedman is just another case-in-point. He just made it REAL easy to post about.
I actually think you've hit on something important. Politicians aren't held liable for much worse. We, as a people, have become indifferent. "Political discourse" has degenerated to Left vs. Right, because it is simple enough for most people to handle and serves both political parties quite well. Political parties exist to "divide and conquer", having people vote for black and white issues that make them feel high and mighty. But political parties have become fraudulent electioneering mechanisms, AFAIC. Spouting about everything and acting on nothing. This country now has a political elite CROWNED BY MONEYED INTERESTS, IMO, and whether a Dem or Republican is in office actual policy differences are minimal.

The latest financial crisis is an excellent example of this. Nobody's telling the truth, the government (both sides of the aisle) is in fact cooperating with banks in NOT TELLING THE TRUTH and fixing the problems that financial institutions created with government's help. Because telling the truth means telling the citizenry that our financial institutions and the government that oversaw them royally screwed up.

What scares me most about it are not the financial repercussions, but social. People are starting to think of the government not as an institution that holds bad people responsible for their actions to protect the citizenry, but an institution that serves the bad people's interest first and foremost.

Everybody's just smiling and winking now, but eventually somebody's going to get an eye poked out down the line and I fear the consequences will be much, much worse than simply just telling the truth NOW.

PD

[Aramike]

I actually think you've hit on something important. Politicians aren't held liable for much worse. We, as a people, have become indifferent. "Political discourse" has degenerated to Left vs. Right, because it is simple enough for most people to handle and serves both political parties quite well. Political parties exist to "divide and conquer", having people vote for black and white issues that make them feel high and mighty. But political parties have become fraudulent electioneering mechanisms, AFAIC. Spouting about everything and acting on nothing. This country now has a political elite CROWNED BY MONEYED INTERESTS, IMO, and whether a Dem or Republican is in office actual policy differences are minimal.

The latest financial crisis is an excellent example of this. Nobody's telling the truth, the government (both sides of the aisle) is in fact cooperating with banks in NOT TELLING THE TRUTH and fixing the problems that financial institutions created with government's help. Because telling the truth means telling the citizenry that our financial institutions and the government that oversaw them royally screwed up.

What scares me most about it are not the financial repercussions, but social. People are starting to think of the government not as an institution that holds bad people responsible for their actions to protect the citizenry, but an institution that serves the bad people's interest first and foremost.

Everybody's just smiling and winking now, but eventually somebody's going to get an eye poked out down the line and I fear the consequences will be much, much worse than simply just telling the truth NOW.YES!!! *Great* post! This is the kind of thinking I like to see. I strongly believe that, once people begin to understand the concept behind your post, they may begin to look deeper and finally decide the issues for themselves.

And when they do, I may not agree with them ... but I sure as hell will respect them a lot more.

Bravo! :rock:

[subchaser12]

Let me give you some insight as a liberal. We have different concerns about the world we live in. Most of us on the left are in much higher tax brackets that Joe Citizen. I just spent 200$ on a pair of jeans for example. We worry about things like when we travel will there be a Starbucks? We are worried about the quality of staff at the hotels we stay in. There is nothing worse than unprofessional servants. Boston is great as well as DC because they use African immigrants to park cars. The foreigners are so much nicer than Americans. I mean my big gripe about Christmas was Starbucks being closed. I mean come one, surely we can find some poor slobs to at least come in at 10. Their poor kids can open their presents and they can be out the door soon after.

I agree with the cell phone issue. A lot of liberals actually have time that is valuable, so we need to be available 24/7. We don't have jobs with hard start and stop times, so when talking business and flying around it's important to be able to stay in touch.

[Aramike]

Let me give you some insight as a liberal. We have different concerns about the world we live in. Most of us on the left are in much higher tax brackets that Joe Citizen. I just spent 200$ on a pair of jeans for example. We worry about things like when we travel will there be a Starbucks? We are worried about the quality of staff at the hotels we stay in. There is nothing worse than unprofessional servants. Boston is great as well as DC because they use African immigrants to park cars. The foreigners are so much nicer than Americans. I mean my big gripe about Christmas was Starbucks being closed. I mean come one, surely we can find some poor slobs to at least come in at 10. Their poor kids can open their presents and they can be out the door soon after.

I agree with the cell phone issue. A lot of liberals actually have time that is valuable, so we need to be available 24/7. We don't have jobs with hard start and stop times, so when talking business and flying around it's important to be able to stay in touch.For some reason I find all of this to be the typical, unsubstantiated drivel you produce.

Next.

[subchaser12]

Let me give you some insight as a liberal. We have different concerns about the world we live in. Most of us on the left are in much higher tax brackets that Joe Citizen. I just spent 200$ on a pair of jeans for example. We worry about things like when we travel will there be a Starbucks? We are worried about the quality of staff at the hotels we stay in. There is nothing worse than unprofessional servants. Boston is great as well as DC because they use African immigrants to park cars. The foreigners are so much nicer than Americans. I mean my big gripe about Christmas was Starbucks being closed. I mean come one, surely we can find some poor slobs to at least come in at 10. Their poor kids can open their presents and they can be out the door soon after.

I agree with the cell phone issue. A lot of liberals actually have time that is valuable, so we need to be available 24/7. We don't have jobs with hard start and stop times, so when talking business and flying around it's important to be able to stay in touch.For some reason I find all of this to be the typical, unsubstantiated drivel you produce.

Next.

Unsubstantiated? Pfft, here is the link http://shop.nordstrom.com/C/789693/0~2376777~2374609~789693?mediumthumbnail=Y&origin=leftnav&pbo=2374609

I assure you Nordstrom carries expensive jeans. I know you can't afford to shop there, but it's hardly "unsubstantiated".

[Aramike]

Let me give you some insight as a liberal. We have different concerns about the world we live in. Most of us on the left are in much higher tax brackets that Joe Citizen. I just spent 200$ on a pair of jeans for example. We worry about things like when we travel will there be a Starbucks? We are worried about the quality of staff at the hotels we stay in. There is nothing worse than unprofessional servants. Boston is great as well as DC because they use African immigrants to park cars. The foreigners are so much nicer than Americans. I mean my big gripe about Christmas was Starbucks being closed. I mean come one, surely we can find some poor slobs to at least come in at 10. Their poor kids can open their presents and they can be out the door soon after.

I agree with the cell phone issue. A lot of liberals actually have time that is valuable, so we need to be available 24/7. We don't have jobs with hard start and stop times, so when talking business and flying around it's important to be able to stay in touch.For some reason I find all of this to be the typical, unsubstantiated drivel you produce.

Next.

Unsubstantiated? Pfft, here is the link http://shop.nordstrom.com/C/789693/0~2376777~2374609~789693?mediumthumbnail=Y&origin=leftnav&pbo=2374609

I assure you Nordstrom carries expensive jeans. I know you can't afford to shop there, but it's hardly "unsubstantiated".Wow, I'm impressed. You posted a link to the website of an upscale retailer. Incredible.

All sarcasm aside, I'm not suprised that you think such a link is substantiation. That would seem to fit into your little view of the world.

As for what I can afford, I doubt you'd know that. You're the idiot who thinks I left some "lucrative" retirement pension behind arbitrarily in the military.

I'm guessing that, at best, you were helping someone try those $200 jeans on. Better get your sewing kit out and hem those jeans, son.

Dance, puppet.

[subchaser12]

As for what I can afford, I doubt you'd know that. You're the idiot who thinks I left some "lucrative" retirement pension behind arbitrarily in the military.

I'm guessing that, at best, you were helping someone try those $200 jeans on. Better get your sewing kit out and hem those jeans, son.

Dance, puppet.

Tell me you own a pair of jeans that cost 200+ dollars.

Say it.

Go on.

We both know you don't. Sure you could afford it because even you probably has at least 200 in the bank, however you aren't allowed to drop that king of coin on jeans are you? Diesel only runs to size 36, can your waist even handle that? Hmmm?

The 20 year retirement is hardly lucrative, it's 50% of the crappy pay. You won't be retiring in the Hampton's on it. My point was someone who would waste 19 years of their life in the military would't waste just a few more months to get the little retirement check.

That's ok, we know you were *wink, *nod, *wink doing things you can't talk about there secret agent orange.

[subchaser12]

I've always considered myself a "centrist".

A centrist? How laughable. You made a thread attacking the left again. Look at the title of this thread, you're so right wing you make Pat Buchanon look like a libertarian.

[Aramike]

Tell me you own a pair of jeans that cost 200+ dollars.

Say it.

Go on. LOL. I own ties that cost more than $200. Like it means anything.We both know you don't. Sure you could afford it because even you probably has at least 200 in the bank, however you aren't allowed to drop that king of coin on jeans are you? Diesel only runs to size 36, can your waist even handle that? Hmmm?When you have 7% body fat close to age 40, come talk.The 20 year retirement is hardly lucrative, it's 50% of the crappy pay. You won't be retiring in the Hampton's on it. My point was someone who would waste 19 years of their life in the military would't waste just a few more months to get the little retirement check.Exactly. So, hmmm... why would someone wait an extra year if...That's ok, we know you were *wink, *nod, *wink doing things you can't talk about there secret agent orange.More straw grasping, I see.

But just because you CLAIMED to have purchased expensive jeans (then oddly just linked to the website as though that's some kind of proof), doesn't make it true OR relevant. Who gives a damn?

Heh, I know a lot of teenagers with limited income that buy that stuff, too ... seems a lot like someone with your intellect...

[Aramike]

I've always considered myself a "centrist".

A centrist? How laughable. You made a thread attacking the left again. Look at the title of this thread, you're so right wing you make Pat Buchanon look like a libertarian.Umm, I know you're kinda, say, not smart, but being a centrist means that you don't necessarily agree with the left or right. As a result, I can say that left-wingers are idiots (and demonstrate as such, like Friedman and yourself) and still be a centrist.

Wow. How can these basic concepts escape such a mind as ... oh, wait, nevermind. Remembered who I was talking to.

[subchaser12]

Umm, I know you're kinda, say, not smart, but being a centrist means that you don't necessarily agree with the left or right. As a result, I can say that left-wingers are idiots (and demonstrate as such, like Friedman and yourself) and still be a centrist.



You spent too much time in the army dude, you are F-R-I-E-D...

[Aramike]

Umm, I know you're kinda, say, not smart, but being a centrist means that you don't necessarily agree with the left or right. As a result, I can say that left-wingers are idiots (and demonstrate as such, like Friedman and yourself) and still be a centrist.



You spent too much time in the army dude, you are F-R-I-E-D...Good answer. You've been OWNED!!! :arrgh!:

Edit: Oh, and dance, puppet. Your last words are always, shall we say, memorable in their stupidity.

[subchaser12]

Good answer. You've been OWNED!!! :arrgh!:

Edit: Oh, and dance, puppet. Your last words are always, shall we say, memorable in their stupidity.

I told you I can read you like a cheap novel there army. I'm guessing 96 series, you're too geeky for the 97s. You're obviously an analysist type, not a good one of course but hey, this is the army we are talking about.

[A Very Super Market]

I really like how Aramike and subchaser can't post on the same thread without arguing. Good flame wars are actually readable.

[Aramike]

Good answer. You've been OWNED!!! :arrgh!:

Edit: Oh, and dance, puppet. Your last words are always, shall we say, memorable in their stupidity.

I told you I can read you like a cheap novel there army. I'm guessing 96 series, you're too geeky for the 97s.You've told me a lot of things. Very of few of them have turned out to be true. Considering I can't type it any slower, try to read it slower: just because you say something doesn't make it true.

Did you get it? Really? Damn, let me try again: just because you say something doesn't make it true.

Not yet? Still can't get it? One more time, in your language: Waa, waa, waawaaah, wah, waa, waaa, waa.

Phew. Glad that's over.

[Aramike]

I really like how Aramike and subchaser can't post on the same thread without arguing. Good flame wars are actually readable.Just trying to be a counter-balance to what I've seen (and heard in PM) of subchaser. I know it's irritating sometimes, but making little quips like yours does nothing to help matters.

[subchaser12]

I really like how Aramike and subchaser can't post on the same thread without arguing. Good flame wars are actually readable.Just trying to be a counter-balance to what I've seen (and heard in PM) of subchaser. I know it's irritating sometimes, but making little quips like yours does nothing to help matters.

Oh you think it's not flaming when you run your mouth, just when the "other guy" does. Ha, you're so arrogant and blinded.

Sorry man, hate to break it to you but you are just a right winger in a flame war with a left winger.

[Aramike]

Oh you think it's not flaming when you run your mouth, just when the "other guy" does. Ha, you're so arrogant and blinded. Wow, you are an idiot. Do you know what "counter-balance" means? Of COURSE I'm flaming. Like CRAZY! I'm countering YOUR flaming, therefore balancing it out!

Your ignorance knows no bounds.Sorry man, hate to break it to you but you are just a right winger in a flame war with a left winger.I hate to break it to you (again), but you don't know the difference between right wing and left wing. I'm just a centrist in a flame war with a left winger.

Your above post is classic in it's stupidity.

[subchaser12]

Oh you think it's not flaming when you run your mouth, just when the "other guy" does. Ha, you're so arrogant and blinded. Wow, you are an idiot. Do you know what "counter-balance" means? Of COURSE I'm flaming. Like CRAZY! I'm countering YOUR flaming, therefore balancing it out!

Your ignorance knows no bounds.Sorry man, hate to break it to you but you are just a right winger in a flame war with a left winger.I hate to break it to you (again), but you don't know the difference between right wing and left wing. I'm just a centrist in a flame war with a left winger.

Your above post is classic in it's stupidity.

I don't care what you call yourself, you're a right winger. Anyone can read your posts since you got here and see that, how stupid do you think we are. Wait, don't answer that his majesty. Stop acting like you are in the middle politically, you're embarassing yourself even further.

Again, you aren't counter balancing anything, you are just slugging it out in a flame war. You might be in a better posisition to say you were counter-balancing if you didn't pepper all your posts with name calling and insults.

It's cute you think and feel you are just the counterbalancing moderate but you are the most right wing person to come along since Subman1.

Just look at the way you vitriolically talk about Obama, that is a really good tip you aren't the "moderate" you claim to be. If you were the mention of Obama's name, your new black president wouldn't make blood seep from your forehead.

[Aramike]

I don't care what you call yourself, you're a right winger. Anyone can read your posts since you got here and see that, how stupid do you think we are. Wait, don't answer that his majesty. Stop acting like you are in the middle politically, you're embarassing yourself even further.You don't even know the differences between right and left wing so trust me, I take your assessment with a grain of salt.

Kind of like most people take everything you say.Again, you aren't counter balancing anything, you are just slugging it out in a flame war. You might be in a better posisition to say you were counter-balancing if you didn't pepper all your posts with name calling and insults. Here comes the victim, whining as usual... :rotfl:

Still haven't figured out what a counter-balance is? Hell, you don't even seem to know what a FLAME is anymore...It's cute you think and feel you are just the counterbalancing moderate but you are the most right wing person to come along since Subman1.LOL, yet again proving you don't know the difference between right and left wing. My position on issues is HARDLY right wing, but either you've been too busy listening to your Hooked on Phonics CDs to notice or you simply don't know the difference.

I would explain it to you but I'm sure I'd be wasting my time. There are far more intelligent people to debate on this board, both on the left and right.

[subchaser12]

either you've been too busy listening to your Hooked on Phonics CDs to notice or you simply don't know the difference.

I would explain it to you but I'm sure I'd be wasting my time. There are far more intelligent people to debate on this board, both on the left and right.

Hey Aramike, the 1990's called for you and they want their hooked on phonics insult back.

I own you, you can't not respond to me. You can't breath, eat or think without me in your thoughts. I own you. Try and ignore me and stop responding. Try it.

YOU CAN'T. You are physically incapable of just not responding to every little word I type. hahaha

[Aramike]

Hey Aramike, the 1990's called for you and they want their hooked on phonics insult back.Hey, subchaser, the 90s called and they want their, "hey it's the (insert decade here) and they want their insult back," back.I own you, you can't not respond to me. You can't breath, eat or think without me in your thoughts. I own you. Try and ignore me and stop responding. Try it.

YOU CAN'T. You are physically incapable of just not responding to every little word I type. hahaha:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
The classic "you can't help but to respond" argument, used by every idiot flamer since flame wars began being lost. Can't handle the substance? Just fault the guy for responding in the first place...

...ignoring that you're doing the same damned thing. :|\\

Go nuts. Fool yourself into thinking that I'm just obsessed with you, rather than I think you're an idiot and have fun here displaying it over and over again.

[Stealth Hunter]

http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww47/parismenton/fd25f883a01ac653549198c332fcfee5759.gif

You guys are hilarious.

[subchaser12]

Hey, subchaser, the 90s called and they want their, "hey it's the (insert decade here) and they want their insult back,"

Stop living off my borrowed wit.

[Aramike]

Hey, subchaser, the 90s called and they want their, "hey it's the (insert decade here) and they want their insult back,"

Stop living off my borrowed wit.:smug:

[subchaser12]

Hey, subchaser, the 90s called and they want their, "hey it's the (insert decade here) and they want their insult back,"

Stop living off my borrowed wit.:smug:

Agreed. :sunny:

[Frame57]

Most liberals I know are unemployed and on welfare. They do not like programs that make them work. Not really sure why it seems this way unless all the pot they smoked as kids is having some type of effect later in life???