Chinese ship uses molotov cocktails to fight off Somali pirates

[mookiemookie]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/piracy/3849969/Chinese-ship-uses-Molotov-cocktails-to-fight-off-Somali-pirates.html

Time to reinstate the convoy system? Seriously, wouldn't a convoy escorted by warships be the answer to the piracy problem?

[Letum]

I see alcohol, petrol, lighters and a wooden deck.
Blimey. Where I a pirate I would stay the hell away from that ship.

[Diopos]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/piracy/3849969/Chinese-ship-uses-Molotov-cocktails-to-fight-off-Somali-pirates.html

Time to reinstate the convoy system? Seriously, wouldn't a convoy escorted by warships be the answer to the piracy problem?

Interesting!
:o
:hmm:
:yep:
:up:

[Schroeder]

Forming up convoys takes a lot of time. That would increase the costs and transport times dramatically. Remember the convoy doesn't start sailing when you want to start. You have to wait untill a decent number of ships have assembled and that might take a few days or weeks in which your ship can't sail.:know:

[Jimbuna]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/piracy/3849969/Chinese-ship-uses-Molotov-cocktails-to-fight-off-Somali-pirates.html

Time to reinstate the convoy system? Seriously, wouldn't a convoy escorted by warships be the answer to the piracy problem?

Possibly....but I still prefer the Q Ship idea :p

[A Very Super Market]

Since it isn't considered wartime, companies wouldn't be too happy to lose profit over the convoy system. The pirates aren't really dedicated to piracy, and fear death just as much as the merchant crewmen. Q ships might actually work, but people will condemn it as "barbaric"

Edit: Thought you were serious about Q ships :P


Where will you find pirates? (http://weebls-stuff.com/toons/Somalia/)

[Jimbuna]

Since it isn't considered wartime, companies wouldn't be too happy to lose profit over the convoy system. The pirates aren't really dedicated to piracy, and fear death just as much as the merchant crewmen. Q ships might actually work, but people will condemn it as "barbaric"

Edit: Thought you were serious about Q ships :P


Where will you find pirates? (http://weebls-stuff.com/toons/Somalia/)

I was being serious.....can't think of anything more barbaric at sea than piracy. :nope:

[August]

I think a Marine infantry platoon put aboard each ship before it leaves port and then removed after it clears the danger area would be an effective deterrent. I mean if a bunch of Chinese civilian sailors can fight them off with molotov cocktails fire hoses how difficult would it be for trained Marines?

It'd certainly be a lot cheaper to the ship owners than any convoy system.

[subchaser12]

I would have to see a cost benefit analysis. How much would a convoy, Q ship or whatever cost. More than likely paying the ransom on the rare occasion your ships get jacked is probably cheaper.

[A Very Super Market]

There are many US forces posted not far from Somalia, August's theory is sound. It doesn't even have to be US troops , India isn't very far, Maybe ships could pull a stopover at secure port full of soldiers..

A convoy wouldn't really cost THAT much, its just a delay that the companies will hate.

[bradclark1]

I think a Marine infantry platoon put aboard each ship before it leaves port and then removed after it clears the danger area would be an effective deterrent. I mean if a bunch of Chinese civilian sailors can fight them off with molotov cocktails fire hoses how difficult would it be for trained Marines?

It'd certainly be a lot cheaper to the ship owners than any convoy system.
A company like Blackwater or one of the others would work better. Saves on possible rightious problems.

[Dowly]

What a waste of alcohol...

Jack Sparrow's take on the issue:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JImcvtJzIK8

[baggygreen]

Didn't the UN just give the go-ahead to land and air action against the pirates??

What are we waiting for

[Tribesman]

Time to reinstate the convoy system?
The French operating out of Djibouti are already doing it .
But your ship has to be able to maintain the required speed .
You have to book 10 days in advance .
Only one convoy operates so its a case of waiting if you are going up the gulf but the convoy is coming down .
Only 2 civilian ships in the convoy are allowed armed military personel on board as there are only 2 military vessels escorting and it isn't a state of war .
Extra ships that are not booked on the convoy are allowed to tag along , but get no guarantee of protection or assistance .

However , the French are providing the service free of charge .

A company like Blackwater or one of the others would work better. Saves on possible rightious problems.
Unfortunately not .
Leaving aside the legal/insurance issues the fact remains that in the main the first the crew know about the attack is when the pirates have already boarded and either siezed control of the ship or taken hostages .
The recent incident in the Gulf of Aden where a shipping company had hired armed guards illustrates this well , the two British guards jumped overboard as the pirates had already taken control before they had noticed it happening and they were powerless in a hostage situation .
As for the possible "rightious" problems you only have to look at the Indian Navy sinking the pirates "mothership" last month .
It wasn't a "mothership" it was a newly captured fishing boat with all its crew on board , the pirates escaped in their speed boats and all the fishermen (except one who was left drifting for six days) were killed by the Indian frigate .
Slightly embarrasing on the "righteous" front eh ?

[PeriscopeDepth]

Using a convoy to deter pirates in small, fast craft with RPGs is like trying to take down that mosquito buzzing around with an assault rifle.

What are we waiting for
Who knows. Best case scenario they are waiting for a bunch of ships from nations who aren't present but really want to be when they lay the smack down so they can declare their navy part of the glorious, successful pirate cleansing operation. Worst case they are still arguing the finer points of the RoE. If they haven't figured that out yet, they probably never will.

But, methinks if governments really did think these guys were threats, they would be proactively killing them. Not sending a ship to the area and issuing a a press release.

PD

[Task Force]

maby all ship crews should be trained how to do this for defense.:hmm: And if a ship is going though pirated waters then they should have military personnel on them.

[Frame57]

Much cheaper to mount some .50 cal on the rails and possibly some RPG's.

[Task Force]

Much cheaper to mount some .50 cal on the rails and possibly some RPG's.

you got a point there. But what if someone uses these for the rong reasons. or a pirate group gets hold of the ship? the ship would be twice as dangerous.

[A Very Super Market]

The pirates already have AK-47s and RPGs.

Just dump the guns overboard if it becomes apparent that you're losing.

And the pirates don't want to use a slow, obvious cargo ship to attack other slow, obvious cargo ships.

[Task Force]

you have a point there.:yep:

[A Very Super Market]

Actually, given the current global situation, I think anyone could get some AKs and RPGs

I blame the Ruskies!!! :P

[Frame57]

If these are saudi ships then they can certainy afford extra security measures.

[subchaser12]

A company like Blackwater or one of the others would work better. Saves on possible rightious problems.

Blackwater needs to be shut down. I wouldn't want those wahoos near me. I don't care if they are "former" special ops. They are former for a reason. I don't care if you were a Ranger 10 years ago, out of date and out of shape just means you are some has been retread out trying to make some coin.

Look at photos of the Blackwater people, most of them have beer bellies. Mercenaries are never the way to go.

[subchaser12]

If these are saudi ships then they can certainy afford extra security measures.

It's not a matter of can they afford it. The more money they don't spend the more money they have left over to spend on palaces, 10,000$ a night hotel rooms and hot blonde European prostitutes.

[bradclark1]

Time to reinstate the convoy system?
The French operating out of Djibouti are already doing it .
But your ship has to be able to maintain the required speed .
You have to book 10 days in advance .
Only one convoy operates so its a case of waiting if you are going up the gulf but the convoy is coming down .
Only 2 civilian ships in the convoy are allowed armed military personel on board as there are only 2 military vessels escorting and it isn't a state of war .
Extra ships that are not booked on the convoy are allowed to tag along , but get no guarantee of protection or assistance .

However , the French are providing the service free of charge .

A company like Blackwater or one of the others would work better. Saves on possible rightious problems.
Unfortunately not .
Leaving aside the legal/insurance issues the fact remains that in the main the first the crew know about the attack is when the pirates have already boarded and either siezed control of the ship or taken hostages .
The recent incident in the Gulf of Aden where a shipping company had hired armed guards illustrates this well , the two British guards jumped overboard as the pirates had already taken control before they had noticed it happening and they were powerless in a hostage situation .
As for the possible "rightious" problems you only have to look at the Indian Navy sinking the pirates "mothership" last month .
It wasn't a "mothership" it was a newly captured fishing boat with all its crew on board , the pirates escaped in their speed boats and all the fishermen (except one who was left drifting for six days) were killed by the Indian frigate .
Slightly embarrasing on the "righteous" front eh ?
The obvious thing would be to have a force larger then two people. Kind of half arsed stupid. You have enough men for 360 degree observation while in the danger zone. Considering the security is there for security and not engaged in mothership attacking it's a none issue. Leave attacking to national navies.
I don't know what you mean by legal/insurance issues. I would assume insurance wouldn't like to pay out a ransom or loss of a ship and I would also assume that the pirates wouldn't sue for not being allowed to pirate a ship or file assult charges for getting shot.

[August]

The obvious thing would be to have a force larger then two people. Kind of half arsed stupid. You have enough men for 360 degree observation while in the danger zone. Considering the security is there for security and not engaged in mothership attacking it's a none issue. Leave attacking to national navies.

Exactly. Well put Brad.

[peterloo]

Actually, given the current global situation, I think anyone could get some AKs and RPGs

I blame the Ruskies!!! :P

don't blame the Russians. USA weapons like Redeye or TOW are equally proliferated. Did you know that Iran has clones of TOW?

Given the popularity of RPG, the RPG that is used may not be of Russian origin

Maybe all ships should follow the example of UN cargo ships which are used to transport uranium fuel, by arming themselves with 30mm autocannons

[A Very Super Market]

I'm not blaming the russians at all, even though they created the AK-47, it is human greed and violence that makes it so prevalent. The AK happened to meet the needs of horrible human beings.

Mounting even just 2 machine guns (one for each side) would probably be enough to stop pirates from attacking. They don't want to die either. It would probably be beneficial to have searchlights as well, for night attacks

[August]

I'm not blaming the russians at all, even though they created the AK-47, it is human greed and violence that makes it so prevalent. The AK happened to meet the needs of horrible human beings.

Mounting even just 2 machine guns (one for each side) would probably be enough to stop pirates from attacking. They don't want to die either. It would probably be beneficial to have searchlights as well, for night attacks

The only problem with machine guns is once the pirates get aboard the machine guns are useless, but the chances of them being used by mistake against non pirate small craft would be fairly significant.

I think at least a well armed security team of a dozen or so combat trained men would be needed to do the job and leave the ranged fighting to the various navies like Brad says...

[A Very Super Market]

Well, the pirates aren't the most stealthy people in the world. When you see shouting men driving a speedboat directly at you, firing there weapons, its pretty safe to assume that they're pirates.

Of course, the only way to stop piracy altogether is to restore order to Somalia, which will piles of fun :nope:

[August]

Well, the pirates aren't the most stealthy people in the world. When you see shouting men driving a speedboat directly at you, firing there weapons, its pretty safe to assume that they're pirates

That's not a very safe assumption. Look what happened to the Indian navy recently.

[Aramike]

Wouldn't it be great if diesel subs were used somewhat like Air Marshalls are?

Find some old, cheap diesel boats and have them police waters infested with pirates. After a couple of surprise arrests/kills, the word just might get out... :hmm:

[Aramike]

Heh, or tried an electrified hull. :arrgh!:

[A Very Super Market]

I heard about that incident, opening fire wasn't the problem, it was the Indian Navy not rescuing the captured crew. From what the reports said, there were pirates as well as fisherman, and it was a captured boat.

I wouldn't condone random fire by a military vessel. I'm talking about one of the merchant ships armed with a machine gun. If they're coming at you in speedboats, they aren't Thai fisherman

[SandyCaesar]

From what I know, the problem wasn't the trigger-happiness of the Indians.

It was that the pirate crew had kept the hostages onboard whilst attacking the Indians.