Palm guns

[Skybird]

http://www.palmpistol.com/

Idiotic - if somebody is so disabled or senile or ga-ga that he cannot handle a normal gun, I hardly want to see him with one of these. He may shoot the postman, etc.

[UnderseaLcpl]

Somehow, I doubt that senior citizens inadvertently shooting innocents with these weapons will ever be a problem, if, in fact, it ever happens.

Certainly, it could help disabled or elderly people defend themselves. That seems legitimate to me, since they are easy targets for armed robberies and the like.

Not that any of that matters, since the right to bear arms is expressly reserved to the people, and this is a U.S. company.

[Digital_Trucker]

http://www.palmpistol.com/

Idiotic - if somebody is so disabled or senile or ga-ga that he cannot handle a normal gun, I hardly want to see him with one of these. He may shoot the postman, etc.
As a resident of a wheelchair, I can tell you that the palm gun would certainly be a lot easier to use than a typical handgun and a thousand time more concealable. Handling a normal gun is no problem, but handling it fast enough while confined to a chair might be. And shooting the postman is no problem because he moves too slowly:rotfl:

[August]

http://www.palmpistol.com/

Idiotic - if somebody is so disabled or senile or ga-ga that he cannot handle a normal gun, I hardly want to see him with one of these. He may shoot the postman, etc.
As a resident of a wheelchair, I can tell you that the palm gun would certainly be a lot easier to use than a typical handgun and a thousand time more concealable. Handling a normal gun is no problem, but handling it fast enough while confined to a chair might be. And shooting the postman is no problem because he moves too slowly:rotfl:

Ain't it lovely how people without a physical handicap like to tell those who do have one what they need?

[Skybird]

I think I told this story before, a year ago or so, but however... It is a true story. Until some time ago, I worked in a department store. There were several detectives, one of them became seriously ill and had to go to hospital for tough chemotherapy. Wehn he was released and had his first day at work again, he still was not up to 100% and struggled to make it through the day. He observed a old woman of - as it turned out - 80 or 81 or 82 years, and when he tapped her on the shoulder, she turned and emptied a flacon of CS tear gas into his face, from point blank range - he was knocked out by chemical agents again, on his first day :lol: . The women (had not stolen anything) later said she felt like about getting raped (in the middle of the store, with a hundred people around and just some meters away from my cashdesk), and I was told she was quite confused and struggled to write with a pen.

You see my point why I object to advertising such a palm gun to old senile people like in this example, yes? I would also object to let her drive a car.

[Frame57]

An 80 year old woman afraid of getting raped? Huh! Wishful thinking on her part...:D

[August]

An 80 year old woman afraid of getting raped? Huh! Wishful thinking on her part...:D

It's happened more than once and it wasn't very funny....

[Digital_Trucker]

You see my point why I object to advertising such a palm gun to old senile people like in this example, yes? I would also object to let her drive a car.
Where in the advertisement did you see it advertised to "old senile people"? I, too, would not want this in the hands of a person such as your story above described, but to label the weapon as a joke and useless is taking it a bit far. Just because you can't think of a use for it doesn't make it useless. Just put it on your ignore list and you'll be OK:D


@ August, amen to that:up:

Edit : It would also make an excellent weapon for Plaxico Burress:rotfl:

[NeonSamurai]

They tried to get the gun registered as a "medical device" under the FDA too..

From their specifications manual.

- SPECIAL NOTICE CONCERNING FDA REGISTRATION AND LISTING –
On December 2, 2008, we were registered as a Medical Device Establishment and the Palm Pistol was listed in the FDA Unified Registration Listing System (FURLS). Based upon agency information, correspondence and verbal instructions, we were led to believe the Palm Pistol was classified as a “device,” were given specific listing instructions, assigned Product Code ILT corresponding with “Recreational Adapter” and identification of the device as a “Daily Activity Assist Device” in accordance
with 21 CFR 890.5050, and accordingly informed we had authority to begin marketing it as such a “device.” At no time did we claim the device was “approved” by the FDA, as erroneously reported in the press. We did make every effort to correct this when extended the courtesy of an inquiry.

On December 8, 2008, FDA Office of Public Affairs issued the following press release:

The U.S. Food and Drug Administration has determined that the Palm Pistol, manufactured by Constitution Arms in [Maplewood, NJ] is not a medical device under the Federal Food, Drugs, and Cosmetic Act. The manufacturer registered and listed the product in the FDA’s electronic database on Dec. 2, 2008. Because the FDA has determined the product is not a medical device under section 201(h) of the Act, FDA is cancelling the registration and will return its registration fee. It appears that Constitution Arms registered the company and listed the Palm Pistol as a “recreational adaptor,” which may be a daily assist device under 21 CFR 890.5050. However, registration and listing does not constitute an admission, agreement or determination that a product is a device within the meaning of section 201(h) of the Act. The FDA has determined that the company’s listing was in error.

Siobhan DeLancey, RVT
FDA Office of Public Affairs

We believe the Palm Pistol serves a medical function and may appeal this cancellation of our registration and listing made in good faith. However, this has no effect upon our plan to design and produce the Palm Pistol.

There is also a lot of other nonsense in that manual, and I have to question the accuracy of such a weapon if not used point blank. Also the weapon only has a combination lock and two grip safeties to prevent accidental firings, and if you want the gun for protection, you couldn't have the combination lock active. This means you would be depending on two grip safeties to prevent the gun going off in your pants or purse, which I sure as hell wouldn't. Personally I suspect this weapon is a hunk of junk and that they are pandering to the vulnerable.

I also have to side with Skybird by objecting to advertising such a palm gun to potentialy mentally ill people including elderly people suffering from dementia and the like, and also having a firearm labeled as a medical device.

[Frame57]

An 80 year old woman afraid of getting raped? Huh! Wishful thinking on her part...:D

It's happened more than once and it wasn't very funny....Did you get counselling since then? I was not aware you were raped, I apologize for the ill placed humor.:oops:

[Rockstar]

I looked at that, unfortunetly it's only a one shot chance of stopping someone. In my opinion it only offers the owner a false sense of security. You take that out and miss you're going to be in a world of hurt. On otherhand, if you do hit your mark let me warn you, life is'nt like the movies. One shot will most likely NOT stop the assailant but only tick him or her off even more.

Highly recommend a multi-shot semi auto and practice, practice and more practice.

[fatty]

Somebody else made a wise observation that the Palm Pistol resembles nothing remotely like a typical handgun. Really if a senior drew this I think it would be more easily mistaken for an inhaler or something like that. This eliminates its deterrent effect and limits the use of the Palm Pistol to only shooting people, which, with its stubby little barrel and no sights, it is probably not very good at.

If you are a senior citizen and feel threatened to the extent that you must carry a firearm, better IMHO to carry a small handgun that you will probably only have to draw versus this one that will force you to fire once and probably miss.

[JALU3]

http://forums.megatokyo.com/index.php?showtopic=1732199&view=findpost&p=4836240

[Skybird]

Where in the advertisement did you see it advertised to "old senile people"?

Picky day today, eh? An advert writer mentioning "senile" poeple would get fired soon, i assume. But they mentioned seniors (=older people) as their target audience. Well, it is not forbidden by law that older people shall keep on driving cars, but you can not rarely see old people behaving odd in street and highway traffic, reacting too late or to slow, driving to slow and moving to far to either the central or the right white line, using it for orientation. Old people lose mental abilities, that is a fate many of us will face from some early or later day on. And like it is not recommended to have such people moving cars in public traffic anymore, it is no good idea to put firearms into their hands.

I'm sure you get my idea, if only you try a bit. ;) Over the past 18 months I remember two news about traffic accidents in Germany, the one parking his car in the window of a restaurant, and the other mistaking the stairs for the subway with the enterance of a parking deck - both accidents were attributed to the high age of the drivers. and there are many more incidents related to age that do not make it to such spectacular display.

[Digital_Trucker]

Where in the advertisement did you see it advertised to "old senile people"?
Picky day today, eh? An advert writer mentioning "senile" poeple would get fired soon, i assume. But they mentioned seniors (=older people) as their target audience. Well, it is not forbidden by law that older people shall keep on driving cars, but you can not rarely see old people behaving odd in street and highway traffic, reacting too late or to slow, driving to slow and moving to far to either the central or the right white line, using it for orientation. Old people lose mental abilities, that is a fate many of us will face from some early or later day on. And like it is not recommended to have such people moving cars in public traffic anymore, it is no good idea to put firearms into their hands.

I'm sure you get my idea, if only you try a bit. ;) Over the past 18 months I remember two news about traffic accidents in Germany, the one parking his car in the window of a restaurant, and the other mistaking the stairs for the subway with the enterance of a parking deck - both accidents were attributed to the high age of the drivers. and there are many more incidents related to age that do not make it to such spectacular display.
Picky today, eh?:D All seniors are not senile and all disabled people aren't ga-ga or drooling. If you want to talk about people taking tests to determine their ability to properly operate a weapon, I'm all for it. Automobiles are weapons, as well, and everyone (not just the elderly) should be required to exhibit the ability to utilize the weapon (automobile) in a safe manner.

As for all the arguments regarding the concept of the weapon, I'm hazarding a guess that most of you don't spend most of your day in a wheelchair or have any kind of physical disability that makes handling a normal firearm difficult. I'm also guessing that the vast majority of attacks on the elderly and the disabled are perpetrated from "up close and personal". Confronted by a mugger within a few feet whose sole intent is to do me bodily harm, I'll gladly take a non-aimed, point and shoot gut shot with a hollow point 9mm over trying to wrangle a normal firearm out from between my arse and the side of my wheelchair. As for "deterring" a would be attacker with a normal weapon, that would require that the weapon be pulled while the attacker is at a distance and hoping that they don't have a gun of their own at the ready.

The weapon is certainly not medical equipment. It also may not be worth a crap. A properly implemented version of the design, however, certainly isn't a worthless idea.

[RickC Sniper]

Was brought up a week ago

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=145298

[RickC Sniper]

It is my guess that the man who created it was attempting to make something that only required a doctor's prescription in order to buy it. By calling it a "medical assist device" perhaps he was trying to do an end-run around the background checks required to buy a firearm.

[Skybird]

It is my guess that the man who created it was attempting to make something that only required a doctor's prescription in order to buy it. By calling it a "medical assist device" perhaps he was trying to do an end-run around the background checks required to buy a firearm.
Or he was thinking of a legalised tool for self-inflicted euthanasia. :88)

[August]

It is my guess that the man who created it was attempting to make something that only required a doctor's prescription in order to buy it. By calling it a "medical assist device" perhaps he was trying to do an end-run around the background checks required to buy a firearm.

I don't see how that would work. What doctor would risk his license to practice?

[SUBMAN1]

It is my guess that the man who created it was attempting to make something that only required a doctor's prescription in order to buy it. By calling it a "medical assist device" perhaps he was trying to do an end-run around the background checks required to buy a firearm.Don't think so. Sounds more like an end run around the insurance companies.

-S

[SUBMAN1]

I forgot to mention that it is entertaining to watching someone who has no idea in the use of a firearm make statements like in this thread. Skybird, you should really come to the United States so that we can teach you what a firearm is. Until then, leave it to the experts over here. Thanks.

-S

[Hylander_1314]

Looks I need to get one to add to the collection! That thing's pretty nifty lookin'.

[RickC Sniper]

I don't see how that would work. What doctor would risk his license to practice?

If he had gotten the FDA approval that he was seeking, and for a time the guy actually thought he had, it would have been dispensed as a medical assist device.

Would a doctor be risking his license by prescribing an FDA approved medical assist device?

The FDA didn't approve it and now he hopes to sell it as a firearm....so it's a mute point.

@Subman: I agree about the insurance end run as well.

[RickC Sniper]

http://www.palmpistol.com/

Idiotic - if somebody is so disabled or senile or ga-ga that he cannot handle a normal gun, I hardly want to see him with one of these.

First, do not lump the disabled with the senile. No one suggested selling this to the senile, only the physically impaired. The elderly are not ALL senile.

Making products designed for the disabled so they can operate devices you take for granted is a popular and profitable business globally.

The object is to make the product so we CAN operate it safely. You're statement suggests if we cannot operate a "normal" device it should not be reinvented or modified so the disabled can use it. I repeat....SAFELY.

I shoot a rifle, yet I could never operate an unmodified gun....or this goofy device being discussed here.

[Skybird]

I DON'T TAKE FIREARMS FOR GRANTED. Just for the record.

[Hylander_1314]

Neither do I. That is why I took hunter safety courses, and dad, and gramps, and uncles, all military veterans taught me early how to safely handle them.

But you are correct, they should never be taken lightly. Care and caution should always be exercised. The time something bad happens is when you relax that care. That's why in 35 years I've not had a mishap, or even a close call. Though I've not hunted in 20 years as I don't care for the taste of the game out on the high plains Rocky Mountain region, compared to the midwestern states, and the northeast. And the game is tougher, and needs more prep work before cooking.

[UnderseaLcpl]

It's always the "unloaded gun" that kills someone, which is why mine is always loaded :D

[Frame57]

It's always the "unloaded gun" that kills someone, which is why mine is always loaded :D:rotfl: Ditto...

[Hylander_1314]

It's always the "unloaded gun" that kills someone, which is why mine is always loaded :D

As long as you and your gun aren't at the same time, it's fine. :lol:

[MothBalls]

if somebody is so disabled or senile or ga-ga that he cannot handle a normal gun, I hardly want to see him with one of these.Then don't buy one.

[SUBMAN1]

if somebody is so disabled or senile or ga-ga that he cannot handle a normal gun, I hardly want to see him with one of these.Then don't buy one.Nor could a senile man buy one. You can't sell to the mentally ill in the first place, so this thread is a waste of time.

-S

[Enigma]

Skybird, you should really come to the United States so that we can teach you what a firearm is. Until then, leave it to the experts over here. Thanks.
Yeah, we got that covered...:lol:



In one year, firearms killed no children in Japan, 19 in Great Britain, 57 in Germany, 109 in France, 153 in Canada, and 5,285 in the United States. (Centers for Disease Control)


Every day, more than 80 Americans die from gun violence. (Coalition to Stop Gun Violence)
The rate of firearm deaths among kids under age 15 is almost 12 times higher in the United States than in 25 other industrialized countries combined. (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention)
American kids are 16 times more likely to be murdered with a gun, 11 times more likely to commit suicide with a gun, and nine times more likely to die from a firearm accident than children in 25 other industrialized countries combined. (Centers for Disease Control)
Also, see here...homicide with a firearm striking many, many times as one of the top 5 causes of death over various age groups.

ftp://ftp.cdc.gov/pub/ncipc/10LC-2004/JPEG/10lC-violence.jpg

The city I live in has broken it's own record for shootings, and for handgun related homicide this year, and the year ain't over yet.

Yeah, we know how to use guns.....

[August]

Also, see here...homicide with a firearm striking many, many times as one of the top 5 causes of death over various age groups.

ftp://ftp.cdc.gov/pub/ncipc/10LC-2004/JPEG/10lC-violence.jpg

The city I live in has broken it's own record for shootings, and for handgun related homicide this year, and the year ain't over yet.

Yeah, we know how to use guns.....

In the immortal words of Archie Bunker:

"Would you feel better if they was pushed out of windows instead?"

[SUBMAN1]

Enigma - I think the statistics need to be analyzed instead. This is a classic case of statistics not showing the true value of things. Take for example the population number for example. of course that is conveniently left out as is the total # of people dying from homicide, not just by method.

Something else that is glaringly omitted - crime statistics and violent crime in total per 100K people. The US can't touch the UK in that regard. If you are a criminal, go to the UK. Safe place to work there.

-S

[PeriscopeDepth]

Skybird, you should really come to the United States so that we can teach you what a firearm is. Until then, leave it to the experts over here. Thanks.
Yeah, we got that covered...:lol:



In one year, firearms killed no children in Japan, 19 in Great Britain, 57 in Germany, 109 in France, 153 in Canada, and 5,285 in the United States. (Centers for Disease Control)


Every day, more than 80 Americans die from gun violence. (Coalition to Stop Gun Violence)
The rate of firearm deaths among kids under age 15 is almost 12 times higher in the United States than in 25 other industrialized countries combined. (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention)
American kids are 16 times more likely to be murdered with a gun, 11 times more likely to commit suicide with a gun, and nine times more likely to die from a firearm accident than children in 25 other industrialized countries combined. (Centers for Disease Control)
Also, see here...homicide with a firearm striking many, many times as one of the top 5 causes of death over various age groups.

ftp://ftp.cdc.gov/pub/ncipc/10LC-2004/JPEG/10lC-violence.jpg

The city I live in has broken it's own record for shootings, and for handgun related homicide this year, and the year ain't over yet.

Yeah, we know how to use guns..... Due to cultural practices and the amazing ubiquity of guns in this country, it's no huge surprise death by gun in this country is _MUCH_ greater than others.

That being said, I believe the right to gun ownership is an important one and should not be infringed (that means different things to me than to other people, I'm sure). It is good idea for people to be able to defend themselves without government employees around. And it would keep those authorities in check in very extreme cases.

It is a critical, important part of this country. People just need to be more careful with the things. My dad had A LOT of guns around the house when I was a kid. And I wouldn't have been able to get at any of them had I really wanted to. I knew where they were, he had the gun talk with me and gave me a safety demonstration, and he locked them up tight.

PD

[Digital_Trucker]

In one year, firearms killed no children in Japan, 19 in Great Britain, 57 in Germany, 109 in France, 153 in Canada, and 5,285 in the United States. (Centers for Disease Control) Compared to these figures, guns are pretty safe:
Traffic deaths in the United States fell to their lowest level in five years in 2006, and a federal agency credited strong law enforcement and vehicle safety features as important factors in the decline.
The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:siteSearch%28%27National%20Highway%20Traffic% 20Safety%20Administration%27%29;) said 42,642 people were killed in highway crashes last year, a drop from the 43,510 in 2005.

from here (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,290480,00.html).

As Subman said, numbers have to be looked at in a manner other than purely quantitative. Just looking at the pure numbers, one would think that operating a vehicle is more dangerous than operating a handgun. But when you look at the numbers in relation to the numbers of people doing the operating and the amount of time spent operating either, the numbers look very different.

[A Very Super Market]

Gun related violence is only connected towards anger. Murder is only commited when angry (or compulsively for serial killers)

Car accidents can be connected to a large number of things, distraction, stupidity, mechanical failure...The point is, there are much more causes for car accidents than gun violence.

I don't mind the current gun laws in the US, though I think there should be better screening for licenses. Too many people buy a gun without any idea of safety. This palm gun is a bad idea, seniors, even perfectly sane ones, aren't exactly known for their robustness. Unless the user was a veteran, I doubt the gun would even hit anybody. And when would you need to use it? If its a robbery, your possessions are hardly worth your life, or even theirs. And if its a determined murderer, a 9mm just won't stop them...

[Digital_Trucker]

Gun related violence is only connected towards anger. Murder is only commited when angry (or compulsively for serial killers)

Car accidents can be connected to a large number of things, distraction, stupidity, mechanical failure...The point is, there are much more causes for car accidents than gun violence.


That was exactly my point. Numbers can't be looked at in a vacuum. They have to be analyzed to make any sense. BTW, gun related violence can be caused by all the same things as auto accidents (see the case of the 8 year old with the Uzi at the gun show who killed himself). Stupidity, distraction and mechanical failure are all causes of gun related deaths, too.

[OneToughHerring]

The trigger system on that thing looks quite precarious. It has a safety switch, right? That thing could be very dangerous in the back pocket when the owner decides to sit on it or something.

[Enigma]

The trigger system on that thing looks quite precarious. It has a safety switch, right? That thing could be very dangerous in the back pocket when the owner decides to sit on it or something.

Especially if you play wide receiver for the New York Giants....

[Frame57]

Gun related violence is only connected towards anger. Murder is only commited when angry (or compulsively for serial killers)

Car accidents can be connected to a large number of things, distraction, stupidity, mechanical failure...The point is, there are much more causes for car accidents than gun violence.

I don't mind the current gun laws in the US, though I think there should be better screening for licenses. Too many people buy a gun without any idea of safety. This palm gun is a bad idea, seniors, even perfectly sane ones, aren't exactly known for their robustness. Unless the user was a veteran, I doubt the gun would even hit anybody. And when would you need to use it? If its a robbery, your possessions are hardly worth your life, or even theirs. And if its a determined murderer, a 9mm just won't stop them...Yes, the anger issue is why there is a waiting period and to let the background check clear. It is ten days here in CA. I have a Glock .45 with a combo light/laser on the rail, so aiming is not an issue, just put that dot on them and they will go down. Not a fan of the 9mm...

[Digital_Trucker]

The trigger system on that thing looks quite precarious. It has a safety switch, right? That thing could be very dangerous in the back pocket when the owner decides to sit on it or something.
Especially if you play wide receiver for the New York Giants....

:rotfl::rotfl:

[August]

If its a robbery, your possessions are hardly worth your life, or even theirs.

The problem with that theory is that putting ones life into the hands of a violent criminal is not a very good idea. Remember, "dead men don't testify".

I'd much rather go down fighting than be executed like a sheep.

[Frame57]

If its a robbery, your possessions are hardly worth your life, or even theirs.

The problem with that theory is that putting ones life into the hands of a violent criminal is not a very good idea. Remember, "dead men don't testify".

I'd much rather go down fighting than be executed like a sheep.Yep! My dad used to say, "I would rather face a Jury than Pall bearers."

[August]

Yep! My dad used to say, "I would rather face a Jury than Pall bearers."

"I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6" :D

[A Very Super Market]

Well think about it, the last thing a criminal wants is to attract attention. I'm talking about a simple robbery, the guy just wants some money. The gun is a single-shot, so if you fail to kill him, he'll kill you. Whereas is you just gave him the money, you'd be down fifty dollars, but no one is dead.

If it was unaggravated assault, by all means pull it out.

[Digital_Trucker]

Well think about it, the last thing a criminal wants is to attract attention. I'm talking about a simple robbery, the guy just wants some money. The gun is a single-shot, so if you fail to kill him, he'll kill you. Whereas is you just gave him the money, you'd be down fifty dollars, but no one is dead.

If it was unaggravated assault, by all means pull it out.
Criminals don't care about attracting attention in an armed robbery (burglary might be a different thing). In fact, some do it for attention. They care about whether you live to testify against them though.

How many news stories are there about people shot dead for nothing. Perp just walks up and kills you to see how much you have on you. Or you give them everything you have and the perp doesn't think it's enough, so he shoots you. If you've seen the criminal, you can identify the criminal (which they definitely don't want in court). If you think giving some crack-head your $50 is gonna keep them from killing you, I wish you luck.

[August]

Well think about it, the last thing a criminal wants is to attract attention. I'm talking about a simple robbery, the guy just wants some money. The gun is a single-shot, so if you fail to kill him, he'll kill you. Whereas is you just gave him the money, you'd be down fifty dollars, but no one is dead.

If it was unaggravated assault, by all means pull it out.

These people followed your advice and didn't resist:

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/local/20081218_Norristown_man_faces_murder__robbery_char ges_in_death_of_father_of_four.html
http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/117328/
http://www.wjhg.com/home/headlines/35596824.html
http://crime.about.com/od/deathrow/a/tookie2.htm
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28226099/
http://www.9news.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=104813&catid=339

I could keep posting these links but it's just getting too damned depressing.

[A Very Super Market]

Newspapers don't make money from headlines like "Man is robbed and goes home shortly after" They make money from reports of insanity. These people are unfortunate in that they were chosen by mentally unstable people to kill, but the chances of it happening are small compared to examples where people were robbed by a desperate, but otherwise regular person.

The murderers in your examples are obviously very disturbed individuals, and one was noted to have been high on PCP prior to the murder. In those cases, a single-shot 9mm bullet would not have convinced them not to kill you. The palm guns are marketed towards seniors, I presume, and I doubt their abilities in gun handling. The guns will do more harm than good, maybe convincing a 70 year-old man that he is safe when walking in a dangerous neighborhood.

Murder isn't something one does willy-nilly, and even killing in self-defense would be hard to for a regular person. Soldiers are drilled specifically to prevent them from hesitating in action. What people say they can do and what they would do in a high-stress scenario is uncertain. Having a gun does not automatically make you safe, and may cause you to take higher risks than you would have without one.

[Digital_Trucker]

OK, let's put it this way. If the odds are that 99 times out of 100 giving the psycho the money ends up solving the problem and no one is harmed, do you really want to be the 1?

Edit: The device is not only aimed at seniors, but at the disabled also. The device in question is not even in production AFAIK and is probably a piece of crap. The CONCEPT, however is a different thing.

[A Very Super Market]

No, I would not want to be the one. But I don't understand what you are trying to say.

The one in a hundred (odds are smaller than this) psychopath isn't hard to spot. I am against the palm gun specifically. If a seething madman is going to rob and kill you, the palm gun won't do anything to stop him. The user will be afraid, pumping with adrenaline, and if they miss, or even hit in a non-lethal spot, they are dead.

Robberies don't happen in a crowded mall, they happen in quiet, dark places. If a person knows their limits, they won't go into these places and they will never get robbed. Given a weapon, one may feel confident in their safety when they are actually not. Its prevention that counts, if a murder could have happened, the person wasn't safe enough


Edit: For what reason would a disabled person be putting themselves into a dangerous situation and require a gun?

[fatty]

Well think about it, the last thing a criminal wants is to attract attention. I'm talking about a simple robbery, the guy just wants some money. The gun is a single-shot, so if you fail to kill him, he'll kill you. Whereas is you just gave him the money, you'd be down fifty dollars, but no one is dead.

If it was unaggravated assault, by all means pull it out.
Criminals don't care about attracting attention in an armed robbery (burglary might be a different thing). In fact, some do it for attention. They care about whether you live to testify against them though.

If this was true then why are there almost 30x as many robberies as there are murders? If criminals were so concerned with survivors being able to testify against them I believe the ratio would be much closer to 1:1. If they are rational enough to evaluate the risks of leaving witnesses behind, then it perhaps they are rational enough to evaluate the risks of killing witnesses and the added jail time and other penalties they face. It's like the idea why rape often does not carry a death sentance, being a small incentive for the rapist to leave their victims alive.


How many news stories are there about people shot dead for nothing. Perp just walks up and kills you to see how much you have on you. Or you give them everything you have and the perp doesn't think it's enough, so he shoots you. If you've seen the criminal, you can identify the criminal (which they definitely don't want in court). If you think giving some crack-head your $50 is gonna keep them from killing you, I wish you luck.

Super Market answered this well. A story only makes the news because it is new ;) You'll never hear about the day-to-day robberies or muggings because they are ordinary and common. Degree of news coverage alone is not an effective way to evaluate crime trends.

[Frame57]

OK, let's put it this way. If the odds are that 99 times out of 100 giving the psycho the money ends up solving the problem and no one is harmed, do you really want to be the 1?

Edit: The device is not only aimed at seniors, but at the disabled also. The device in question is not even in production AFAIK and is probably a piece of crap. The CONCEPT, however is a different thing.How does that solve the problem? So, let me get this straight; just give anyone what they want anytime they want it? I think criminals would love this mindset, if they knew that any demand they make will be met without resistance...:hmm:

[A Very Super Market]

Well, if you said no, bodily harm of death is a significant risk

[August]

You guys are acting like a 9mm is little more than a bb. People die from 9mm gunshots all the time.

Whatever, I just find the whole concept of cooperating with a thief in the hopes he'll let me live to be particularly repulsive. Maybe this kind of thinking will get me killed someday but hopefully i'll get a lick or two in beforehand.

[subchaser12]

I thought this invention was the dumbest thing I had seen in awhile. Then it just hit me. If I live long enough to be wheelchair bound and too old and worthless to even operate a hang gun I will have use for a device that will only fire one round. One round would be all I needed.

:hmm:

[August]

I thought this invention was the dumbest thing I had seen in awhile. Then it just hit me. If I live long enough to be wheelchair bound and too old and worthless to even operate a hang gun I will have use for a device that will only fire one round. One round would be all I needed.

:hmm:

I'm sure your family will just love that... :roll:

[subchaser12]

I'm sure your family will just love that... :roll:

Well they would prefer I do it now, but I'm just having too much fun. Honestly if I knew becomming a liberal would make them go so crazy I would have done it when I was in highschool just to mess with them.

[caspofungin]

How does that solve the problem? So, let me get this straight; just give anyone what they want anytime they want it? I think criminals would love this mindset, if they knew that any demand they make will be met without resistance...

i think the idea is that you survive the assault/robbery, call the police, then they go out and catch him.

[August]

I'm sure your family will just love that... :roll:
Well they would prefer I do it now, but I'm just having too much fun. Honestly if I knew becomming a liberal would make them go so crazy I would have done it when I was in highschool just to mess with them.

You really hate your family that much?

[Frame57]

How does that solve the problem? So, let me get this straight; just give anyone what they want anytime they want it? I think criminals would love this mindset, if they knew that any demand they make will be met without resistance...

i think the idea is that you survive the assault/robbery, call the police, then they go out and catch him.Well, in theory sounds good to a point. But they have never found the scumbag who murdered my brother. Now if my brother was armed, he may still be alive...

[Frame57]

Naw! The 9mm is ok for sure. I just like having a slower heavier expanding bullet so more energy is transferred to the potential perp. But, if I ever was awakened in the night, I will reach for the shotgun first...

[Digital_Trucker]

I thought this invention was the dumbest thing I had seen in awhile. Then it just hit me. If I live long enough to be wheelchair bound and too old and worthless to even operate a hang gun I will have use for a device that will only fire one round. One round would be all I needed.

:hmm:
Well, Mr Flamingboat, if your (expletives deleted) self lives long enough to gain some sense, you might realize that not all wheelchair bound folks are old and have one foot in the grave. Part of the advantage of the weapon is it's size and the fact that it looks nothing like a "hang gun" (sic). The one round thing is a problem. But, once again, since most muggings occur "up close", being able to access the weapon rapidly and deploy it in close proximity to the target makes the odds of hitting said target pretty good. In fact, from a wheelchair, a good upwardly aimed gut shot with a hollow point round should make a would be attacker hesitate long enough to escape or maybe even reload and take a head shot.

[SteamWake]

Meh its not the size of the gun but how you use it...

Check this out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mIK7CujSrQ

[RickC Sniper]

Robberies don't happen in a crowded mall, they happen in quiet, dark places. If a person knows their limits, they won't go into these places and they will never get robbed.
Edit: For what reason would a disabled person be putting themselves into a dangerous situation and require a gun?

Wrong. Many home robberies happen in mid day when it is bright and sunny, and they happen in very good neighborhoods.....such as where I live. Should I stay away from my home and go live at a shopping mall?


Originally Posted by subchaser12
I thought this invention was the dumbest thing I had seen in awhile. Then it just hit me. If I live long enough to be wheelchair bound and too old and worthless to even operate a hang gun I will have use for a device that will only fire one round. One round would be all I needed.

I am wheelchair bound and cannot operate a handgun. I'm also old, relatively speaking. (closing in on 60) I am however, anything but worthless.

I do understand that some people (you perhaps?) are very weak and die off when encountered with a little hardship in their lives.
Please feel free to use that one round in the manner you suggest.

[breadcatcher101]

9mm is a good round, but with that short of a barrel there can't be all that much speed. Still better than nothing.

[subchaser12]

[quote=subchaser12]

You really hate your family that much?

Hate? No. I did get tired of trying to drag them into the 21st century though.

[August]

Hate? No. I did get tired of trying to drag them into the 21st century though.

Well you're the one who said you like to drive them crazy "just to mess with them" so it was a natural assumption to make. You've certainly managed to irritate the handicapped members of this forum so i have to wonder if irritating people is the reason you are here... :hmm:

[subchaser12]

You've certainly managed to irritate the handicapped members of this forum

Is it plural? I didn't know until I read back through the posts. Now I see it's digital trucker I'm not appologizing at all. At any rate I only said whay I would do it I was wheelchair bound wearing diapers.

[August]

I also notice you failed to answer my question... :hmm:

[subchaser12]

I also notice you failed to answer my question... :hmm:

That is because it was a rhetorical one.

[SUBMAN1]

Are you knobs still talking about a little pea shooter? For real? Europeans must not be able to fathom the idea of a weapon.

A clue for you guys - a much worse weapon exists there. Its called a baseball bat.

-S

[August]

Are you knobs still talking about a little pea shooter? For real? Europeans must not be able to fathom the idea of a weapon.

A clue for you guys - a much worse weapon exists there. Its called a baseball bat.

-S

There hasn't been a Euro posting on this entire page so far Sub. Just a bunch of Americans being baited by a troll.

[A Very Super Market]

Well, one Canadian as well.

And whom is the troll of which you speak?

[August]

Well, one Canadian as well.

And whom is the troll of which you speak?

Not you.

BTW, how come you don't list your location?

[A Very Super Market]

Thought my original one was funnier

Just glad to know no one hates me, other than magicsub2

[August]

Thought my original one was funnier

Just glad to know no one hates me, other than magicsub2

How can anyone not love a Canadian?

As far as i'm concerned we still owe you big for helping our people out of Iran in '79.

[UnderseaLcpl]

Thought my original one was funnier

Just glad to know no one hates me, other than magicsub2

How can anyone not love a Canadian?

As far as i'm concerned we still owe you big for helping our people out of Iran in '79.

(translated from Minnesotan)

Ah youbetcha, Canadians are super, eh! Not a buncha hosers like some of our other neighbors.
Oh! An speakin' of countries that export their unemployed folks to da north, wouldja mind lettin some of our Democratic friends move in withya? They just love that free healthcare thing and it's a darn shame they can't get it here.
Go Canucks, eh!:up: :D

[Digital_Trucker]

You've certainly managed to irritate the handicapped members of this forum
Is it plural? I didn't know until I read back through the posts. Now I see it's digital trucker I'm not appologizing at all. At any rate I only said whay I would do it I was wheelchair bound wearing diapers.
You really sure that's what you wanted to say? You really do like to agitate don't you? Someday, once you grow up (as if), you might realize that life is more than what you think it is. And you certainly should figure out that being stuck in a wheelchair and wearing diapers is less cause for suicide than just being you, the agitator formerly known as flamingboat.

Are you knobs still talking about a little pea shooter? For real? Europeans must not be able to fathom the idea of a weapon.

A clue for you guys - a much worse weapon exists there. Its called a baseball bat.

-S

:nope:Looks like S1 is dazed and confused.:D

[OneToughHerring]

Good point by subchaser12, and a very sad one. I'm sure it wouldn't be a burden on the conscience of the US weapon makers to sell a 'final solution' to the aging.

[SUBMAN1]

There hasn't been a Euro posting on this entire page so far Sub. Just a bunch of Americans being baited by a troll.


Are you knobs still talking about a little pea shooter? For real? Europeans must not be able to fathom the idea of a weapon.

A clue for you guys - a much worse weapon exists there. Its called a baseball bat.

-S
:nope:Looks like S1 is dazed and confused.:DSorry for getting bored after page one and not having my facts straight! Its a pea shooter for gods sake! :D

-S

[August]

I'm sure it wouldn't be a burden on the conscience of the US weapon makers to sell a 'final solution' to the aging.

That's a terrible thing to say. If you don't have something to contribute to this discussion why don't you take a hike?

[Frame57]

Good point by subchaser12, and a very sad one. I'm sure it wouldn't be a burden on the conscience of the US weapon makers to sell a 'final solution' to the aging.There was a movie made aboiut the final solution for the aging. Soylent Green...MMMmmm! Getting hungry now...

[Digital_Trucker]

Sorry for getting bored after page one and not having my facts straight! Its a pea shooter for gods sake! :D

-S

No apologies necessary, just poking a little fun:). Hell we aren't even talking about the "gun" any more, just how worthless subchaser12/flamingboat is:rotfl:

[SUBMAN1]

No apologies necessary, just poking a little fun:). Hell we aren't even talking about the "gun" any more, just how worthless subchaser12/flamingboat is:rotfl:Lets put it this way... The fact they are trolling and have little respect for others or their ideas shows you where the world is going. This makes the case for the gun a more necessary evil than it ever was. Proof is all around you. An example comes to mind - The kids that broke into a house at midnight and beat up and killed an entire family a couple years back, and did it with baseball bats is perfect proof. The answer they gave as to why they did it? They wanted to see what it was like.

This is one world where you would be stupid not to posses a firearm. Cops can't help ya, only you can help yourself to all you victims out there. Of course if you could help yourself, you wouldn't be a victim anymore so that screws up that plan.

There. Figured I'd help. The 21st century in my opinion will be much more violent than the 20th. Get a gun.

-S

[Digital_Trucker]

No apologies necessary, just poking a little fun:). Hell we aren't even talking about the "gun" any more, just how worthless subchaser12/flamingboat is:rotfl:Lets put it this way... The fact they are trolling and have little respect for others or their ideas shows you where the world is going. This makes the case for the gun a more necessary evil than it ever was. Proof is all around you. An example comes to mind - The kids that broke into a house at midnight and beat up and killed an entire family a couple years back, and did it with baseball bats is perfect proof. The answer they gave as to why they did it? They wanted to see what it was like.

This is one world where you would be stupid not to posses a firearm. Cops can't help ya, only you can help yourself to all you victims out there. Of course if you could help yourself, you wouldn't be a victim anymore so that screws up that plan.

There. Figured I'd help. The 21st century in my opinion will be much more violent than the 20th. Get a gun.

-S

Actually, I'd prefer a small flame thrower. Much more entertaining, albeit not very useful in home defense.

[SUBMAN1]

Actually, I'd prefer a small flame thrower. Much more entertaining, albeit not very useful in home defense.

Well go buy one. People do have them. WWII variety I believe. Never seen one fired though, probably because the environmentalists whacks would have a hissy fit.

-S