SES Jutland is out

[PeriscopeDepth]

The demo is at:
http://stormeaglestudios.com/public/html/se_downloads_v2.html

PD

[Raptor1]

*cheers*

See it's a little less pricey than DG as well

[CaptHawkeye]

Now to find out how much more successful, if at all, the HSF could have been if that retard Wilhelm wasn't running the show. :)

"Hey everybody, I wanna have this huge battlefleet and then never use it."

[turnerg]

Alright, where's Horsa at? We tried for over a year or so to make Destroyer Command work like jutland....

[Task Force]

WO HOO, finaly.:D I wonder what the demo has instore.:yep:

[difool2]

Yeah, there's been a small sh*tstorm on some of the other wargaming boards that I frequent about this DRM stuff. The game certainly intrigued me, but this "phone home every seven days or your copy stops working" stuff is way beyond the pale. Considering that this is a small publisher, they are likely losing more legitimate sales than the ones they would "lose" via piracy. They've also apparently isolated themselves from the community by refusing to engage in open discussion on their forum (and if you don't own the game then forget it). And the typos on the main site are unintentionally hilarious. A tragicomedy to be sure.

[Raptor1]

Now to find out how much more successful, if at all, the HSF could have been if that retard Wilhelm wasn't running the show. :)

"Hey everybody, I wanna have this huge battlefleet and then never use it."
How, exactly, was Wilhelm related to this?

AFAIK Wilhelm relied heavily on his generals for advice in the war matters, so the blame should probably fall squarely Tirpitz

Oh, and don't forget the British had the same attitude

EDIT: Oh, just read that after the Battle of Heligoland Bight the Kaiser decided that the fleet should hold back so as to not sustain severe losses, so you're probably right (In the fact that it was Wilhelm's decision not to employ the HSF more aggressively, that is)

Anyway, I hate annoying DRM as well, but as long as they don't limit my playing to a few installs or some such things I'm not gonne pass up the game for it

[Task Force]

hmmm whats the diffrence between the pro and the normal edition.:hmm:

[Raptor1]

hmmm whats the diffrence between the pro and the normal edition.:hmm:

The Pro version version has the full 1916 campaign (As opposed to the smaller May 1916 campaign that focuses solely on the Battle of Jutland), and a battle editor

I just bought the Pro version BTW

[Task Force]

Now where to get the money.:hmm:

[Raptor1]

Now where to get the money.:hmm:
Wear a fake beard and a KLM uniform and you can raise money selling fake color pictures of Alfred von Tirpitz

[Task Force]

Now where to get the money.:hmm:
Wear a fake beard and a KLM uniform and you can raise money selling fake color pictures of Alfred von Tirpitz

Great Idea.:rotfl:

[PeriscopeDepth]

Now to find out how much more successful, if at all, the HSF could have been if that retard Wilhelm wasn't running the show. :)

"Hey everybody, I wanna have this huge battlefleet and then never use it."
How, exactly, was Wilhelm related to this?

AFAIK Wilhelm relied heavily on his generals for advice in the war matters, so the blame should probably fall squarely Tirpitz

Oh, and don't forget the British had the same attitude

Anyway, I hate annoying DRM as well, but as long as they don't limit my playing to a few installs or some such things I'm not gonne pass up the game for it
The Germans (even the British) had always been conservative in their naval strategy because the Germans were aware of the British number superiority. They couldn't chance losing their fleet, because just its existence as a "fleet in being" necessitated the British operate more conservatively, always taking into account in their operations what the HSF sortieing would mean.

PD

[CaptHawkeye]

How, exactly, was Wilhelm related to this?

After Heligoland Wilhelm **** his pants, and took up the firm belief that the HSF was doomed if it left port. So he virtually banned its use. Which was pretty funny considering German media claimed that Jellicoe was a coward, whom never left Scapa Flow. :D

AFAIK Wilhelm relied heavily on his generals for advice in the war matters, so the blame should probably fall squarely Tirpitz

It's too bad he did listen to them. Otherwise he might have not have opted to construct one of the biggest strategic blunders in history. The High Seas Fleet.

I'm actually a fan of the HSF, but it's a subjective choice based on my liking for the KM's ship design.

Oh, and don't forget the British had the same attitude

Jellicoe kept the Grand Fleet at Sea constantly, and Beatty obsessivley hunted Sheer whenever rumors of his presense were about. Jellicoe was cautious but he was by no means a believer of the "Fleet in Being" concept.

EDIT: Oh, just read that after the Battle of Heligoland Bight the Kaiser decided that the fleet should hold back so as to not sustain severe losses, so you're probably right (In the fact that it was Wilhelm's decision not to employ the HSF more aggressively, that is)

He did lift the ban on its use after Dogger Bank. The Scouting Force couldn't operate safely without the HSF on immediate standby. Then Wilhelm, ever the self-contradictory, put the ban right back on the fleet after Jutland.

Anyway i've decided to experiment with a more aggressive strategy. It's paid off so far. I used the scouting force to ruin a large DD/CL patrol group in the channel. Only narrowly avoiding Beatty the next morning. Using Zeppelin scouting and minelaying I was able to corner a Monitor Fleet at Dover and annhiliate it with the HSF. I've lost lots of destroyers though. I can only hope i'm slowly wearing down the channel's defenses.

[PeriscopeDepth]

Anyway i've decided to experiment with a more aggressive strategy. It's paid off so far. I used the scouting force to ruin a large DD/CL patrol group in the channel. Only narrowly avoiding Beatty the next morning. Using Zeppelin scouting and minelaying I was able to corner a Monitor Fleet at Dover and annhiliate it with the HSF. I've lost lots of destroyers though. I can only hope i'm slowly wearing down the channel's defenses. As I see it, that's the problem with using the HSF too aggressively. The Brits get more reinforcements while you have to make do with what you have. Eventually, once you sacrifice all your pawns (DDs) you will have to sacrifice some BBs/BCs. And you can't afford to lose any of those without being sure of striking a major blow to the British. Have you had any luck with your U-Boats? I plan to start an HSF campaign soon, and will probably do an AAR here when I do. Let us (me) know how your's is going so I may learn from your mistakes. :)

PD

[Raptor1]

I just used Hipper's Scouting force to annihilate one of the British cruiser squadrons guarding the entrance to the channel (Let them get in close during the night, then mowed them down with the Battlecruisers and DDs)

Planning to send the Hochseeflotte down to the channel soon and try to disrupt the troop shipments, maybe get the Brits to send a sizable force to oppose me

[TheSatyr]

Only problem I have with this game is too many magazine explosions...and on ships it shouldn't really happen to. Baden class,Revenge class Queen Elizabeth class and Iron Duke class to name a few. I can understand it if a Brit BC goes boom once in a while but I just had a random battle where 3 of my 4 British BBs all had magazine explosions. I really hope they tone this down cause right now it's throwing realism right out the window.

[Raptor1]

Only problem I have with this game is too many magazine explosions...and on ships it shouldn't really happen to. Baden class,Revenge class Queen Elizabeth class and Iron Duke class to name a few. I can understand it if a Brit BC goes boom once in a while but I just had a random battle where 3 of my 4 British BBs all had magazine explosions. I really hope they tone this down cause right now it's throwing realism right out the window.

Did you turn on the "Advanced Critical Hits (Fragile AP Shells)" option in the realism menu? I'm not sure if it effects it much though

I have yet to suffer a single magazine explosion, every ship I saw went into the drain the hard way

[PeriscopeDepth]

Only problem I have with this game is too many magazine explosions...and on ships it shouldn't really happen to. Baden class,Revenge class Queen Elizabeth class and Iron Duke class to name a few. I can understand it if a Brit BC goes boom once in a while but I just had a random battle where 3 of my 4 British BBs all had magazine explosions. I really hope they tone this down cause right now it's throwing realism right out the window. SES spells out their damage control reasoning here:
http://forums.gamesquad.com/showthread.php?t=80732

It doesn't seem unreasonable at all to me. Try and stay at range (10K+) when engaging as the Brits, or you risk magazines blowing up with a rather alarming regularity when you come under sustained (and more accurate) Hun fire.

PD

[AJ!]

"Like a fine painting from the world’s leading military artists, our newest game JUTLAND delivers like no other. The graphic quality of the ships and the ocean explode onto the screen in unprecedented grandeur. Every ship in JUTLAND has been historically researched , carefully crafted and painstakingly rendered in exquisite detail. Here you will experience historical simulations in a lush, rich, real-time 3D game environment unparalleled in today's gaming"

They sure dont hold back on promoting themselves. The graphics would have looked out of date 6 years ago. theres nothing lush or rich about them whatsoever :rotfl:

For anyone whos played Jutland are the controls any better then DG?

[Raptor1]

Well, Jutland looks a lot better than DG, and it's almost certainly the best looking naval simulation/strategy game out there (I mean, the last game was...Great Naval Battles 5?)

Anyway, the controls are very similar to DG's with the crazy pop-up menus, don't remember enough from DG about the camera controls and such so I can't tell you if it's different

[PeriscopeDepth]

"Like a fine painting from the world’s leading military artists, our newest game JUTLAND delivers like no other. The graphic quality of the ships and the ocean explode onto the screen in unprecedented grandeur. Every ship in JUTLAND has been historically researched , carefully crafted and painstakingly rendered in exquisite detail. Here you will experience historical simulations in a lush, rich, real-time 3D game environment unparalleled in today's gaming"

They sure dont hold back on promoting themselves. The graphics would have looked out of date 6 years ago. theres nothing lush or rich about them whatsoever :rotfl:
As opposed to all those other grand naval strategy titles out there? It's not cutting edge, but night battles are especially pretty with star shells and muzzle flash IMO.

For anyone whos played Jutland are the controls any better then DG?
The camera controls I assume you mean? Pretty much the same. You use the keyboard to move the camera up down, forward, rotate, etc. You can use your mouse, but I really prefer the keyboard.

PD

[Raptor1]

It doesn't seem unreasonable at all to me. Try and stay at range (10K+) when engaging as the Brits, or you risk magazines blowing up with a rather alarming regularity when you come under sustained (and more accurate) Hun fire.

PD
Wouldn't it be more reasonable to try to either stay out of the German's guns if you have the range advantage, or try to close the range as quickly as possible so that the shells will hit your belt and therefore not be able to pierce the turrets and detonate your magazine?

[PeriscopeDepth]

Wouldn't it be more reasonable to try to either stay out of the German's guns if you have the range advantage,
I'm not sure what the max range of the big Brit guns is. Perhaps I'm understating the solution, but as someone on the gamesquad forums said: "17K is your friend," when playing the Brits.

or try to close the range as quickly as possible so that the shells will hit your belt and therefore not be able to pierce the turrets and detonate your magazine?
I've never heard that before, but it doesn't make sense to me. Turrets can still elevate, there is no guarantee the shells will be hitting your belt every time. There is also no guarantee they will be hitting/stopped by your belt. Below the waterline shell penetrations can and do happen in Jutland.

PD

[Raptor1]

Wouldn't it be more reasonable to try to either stay out of the German's guns if you have the range advantage, I'm not sure what the max range of the big Brit guns is. Perhaps I'm understating the solution, but as someone on the gamesquad forums said: "17K is your friend," when playing the Brits.

Well, the German guns typically have a greater range than British guns due to the use of lighter shells and higher muzzle velocity, but the German ships typically have smaller guns compared to the British ships (11" and 12" vs. 13.5" and 15"), so it would all depend on the ships involved


or try to close the range as quickly as possible so that the shells will hit your belt and therefore not be able to pierce the turrets and detonate your magazine? I've never heard that before, but it doesn't make sense to me. Turrets can still elevate, there is no guarantee the shells will be hitting your belt every time. There is also no guarantee they will be hitting/stopped by your belt. Below the waterline shell penetrations can and do happen in Jutland.

PD
Your belt is much better armored than your deck, so a shell has less chances of penetrating the belt than the deck (And I don't know if a shell hitting the belt could even set off a magazine explosion)

Of course you're running the risk of hits below the waterline, but it seems to me that minimizing the chances of deck hits on the turrets will generally result in less magazine explosions

[PeriscopeDepth]

You're belt is much better armored than your deck, so a shell has less chances of penetrating the belt (And I don't know if a shell hitting the belt could even set off a magazine explosion) I understand that, but magazine explosions are caused by the turret being penetrated. Turrets are pretty well armored, no? I would think the closer you are the shells coming at you will have a higher velocity, and a better chance of penetrating the turret armor. There is no guarantee that just because you are closer the shells simply aren't going to hit the turret due to a flatter trajectory.

Therefore, in the game, the to cause an ACH explosion, the shell must not only hit the turret (which includes the barbette and magazine) but also penetrate it. Only then does the 20% chance of explosion come into play.

PD

[CaptHawkeye]

As I see it, that's the problem with using the HSF too aggressively. The Brits get more reinforcements while you have to make do with what you have. Eventually, once you sacrifice all your pawns (DDs) you will have to sacrifice some BBs/BCs. And you can't afford to lose any of those without being sure of striking a major blow to the British. Have you had any luck with your U-Boats? I plan to start an HSF campaign soon, and will probably do an AAR here when I do. Let us (me) know how your's is going so I may learn from your mistakes. :)

PD
Yeah, I tried to pursue a "decisive battle" recently and pretty much lost. Using the Zepps I snuck behind Beatty's fleet with the Scouting Force and HSF. Once Jellicoe left him and turned north to Scapa I tried to corner Beatty at Cromarty, but he rushed my line with his light ships and ruined pretty much all of the Scout's DDs and CLs. I managed to get the BCs out in time but Beatty cornered them the next night and sank Moltke. The last 3 escaped and the HSF couldn't pursue Beatty for lack of coal and speed. The Scouting Force is all of 5 ships now. A few DDs, Seydlitz, Vonn, and Lutz. The HSF is intact, but now I have no way to bait or flank any large British Fleet. I haven't lost yet, but i'm on the road to it.

I've opted to use the U-boats and Merchant Raiders more than ever now. It seems to work, i've busted more than 20 merchant ships in 1 month while the allies just got 3. Random minelaying is also messing with the RN's light forces.

[PeriscopeDepth]

As I see it, that's the problem with using the HSF too aggressively. The Brits get more reinforcements while you have to make do with what you have. Eventually, once you sacrifice all your pawns (DDs) you will have to sacrifice some BBs/BCs. And you can't afford to lose any of those without being sure of striking a major blow to the British. Have you had any luck with your U-Boats? I plan to start an HSF campaign soon, and will probably do an AAR here when I do. Let us (me) know how your's is going so I may learn from your mistakes. :)

PD
Yeah, I tried to pursue a "decisive battle" recently and pretty much lost. Using the Zepps I snuck behind Beatty's fleet with the Scouting Force and HSF. Once Jellicoe left him and turned north to Scapa I tried to corner Beatty at Cromarty, but he rushed my line with his light ships and ruined pretty much all of the Scout's DDs and CLs. I managed to get the BCs out in time but Beatty cornered them the next night and sank Moltke. The last 3 escaped and the HSF couldn't pursue Beatty for lack of coal and speed. The Scouting Force is all of 5 ships now. A few DDs, Seydlitz, Vonn, and Lutz. The HSF is intact, but now I have no way to bait or flank any large British Fleet. I haven't lost yet, but i'm on the road to it.

I've opted to use the U-boats and Merchant Raiders more than ever now. It seems to work, i've busted more than 20 merchant ships in 1 month while the allies just got 3. Random minelaying is also messing with the RN's light forces.
Starving your enemy is important in the campaign. But unlike RJW, killing major naval combatants is a major part of winning the campaign in Jutland. I'm waiting for the next patch to start my HSF campaign (2-3 days at most I think), but my strategy is something like this:
- Attrit the Grand Fleet through U-Boat traps and mine warfare. The bait will be sending Hipper's forces out on bombardment missions. I figure I will spend half of the year long campaign trying to attrit the Entente forces before I start seeking a big battle.
- Snap up as many Brit merchants as possible through U-Boats and fast surface raiders.

PD

[Raptor1]

Well, after a few sorties with the HSF I managed to annihilate much of the Channel defenses, including the French squadron and a fleet of monitors that was unlucky enough to stumble into the way, still no contact with the Grand Fleet though

I haven't used Zeppelins, Submarines or Raiders extensively yet, now that the Channel is more vulnerable I will probably mine it like crazy and get to work on them merchants

BTW, has anyone tried the multiplayer yet?

[Janus]

Is there any contact (email) adress for SES? The contacts page over at www.stormeaglestudios.com only gives the postal adress which is of no help. I want to tell SES why I will not buy their game and don't want to register at the gamesquad forums where all their staff seems to hang out regularly.

[nikimcbee]

Now where to get the money.:hmm:

1. buy a red light.
2. find a street corner.
3. Lots of rouge!
4. maybe some chanel #5

5. buy a bottle of penicillin:up:

[nikimcbee]

I downloaded the demo. I've played it once. So what do you guys think? From the reviews it sounds pretty fun.

[Task Force]

This game is great so far. (sadly Ive only played the demo.) so whats the full games campaign like?:hmm:

[TheSatyr]

Wish I could tell you,but every time I try to play a campaign the game crashes.

[Herman]

Is there any contact (email) adress for SES? The contacts page over at www.stormeaglestudios.com only gives the postal adress which is of no help. I want to tell SES why I will not buy their game and don't want to register at the gamesquad forums where all their staff seems to hang out regularly.
No, they've pretty much totally insulated themselves from comments from anyone but actual customers. From my understanding, you can't even file a problem unless you have already paid for a license.

Seems like the only way to post your opinion is on GameSquad. Not as though they care about it. :damn:

[rea00cy]

I just downloaded the DEMO and installed. PC rebooted. Never prompted for an email. Game doesn't boot up.Any suggestions?Thanks,Rea00cy

[Task Force]

Game dosent start? try a reinstall. And if you want a demo license.

Start game, youl get a screen. click Evaluate Jutland. If the game asks about a update. click no. then wait for it to load up, Next look at the right of the screen and click the little question mark, it should ask for your E mail. put in your email and your key should be in your in box. start jutland up agian, and youl get 2 popups. click the X on the first and enter your key in on the second. click the check mark. and its a regestered demo.;)

[Task Force]

Now where to get the money.:hmm:

1. buy a red light.
2. find a street corner.
3. Lots of rouge!
4. maybe some chanel #5

5. buy a bottle of penicillin:up:
I think Im gona do option #6 Beg mother.:rotfl: (Often works)

[Sonarman]

No, they've pretty much totally insulated themselves from comments from anyone but actual customers. From my understanding, you can't even file a problem unless you have already paid for a license.

Seems like the only way to post your opinion is on GameSquad. Not as though they care about it. :damn:

Depending on what the comment is they do care I think!. If you want to contact them you could always use the tech-support system (http://www.stormeaglestudios.com/public/html/se_support_v2.html)on their site (although again you must register an account, this time with SES direct). I have only used the demo so far and they certainally answered the question that I asked through the system in good time.

If you do register on the forum the best person to speak from SES is Bullethead, I have always found him to be direct and honest and he posseses an encyclopeadic knowledge of naval matters.

[PeriscopeDepth]

Seems like the only way to post your opinion is on GameSquad. Not as though they care about it. :damn:
What makes you think that Herman? Is it Bullethead living in the gamesquad forums and answering 95% of the questions people ask? Or is it the 65+ patches for RJW they put out?

Granted, a certain SES staff member can have his arrogant moments. But all in all SES is second in caring for their customers/product only to AGEOD.

PD

[Herman]

Granted, a certain SES staff member can have his arrogant moments. But all in all SES is second in caring for their customers/product only to AGEOD.
Perhaps he overshadows everyone and everything else.

Oops, dissent must mean that I'm a Pirate... :arrgh!:

[Zakalwe]

No, they've pretty much totally insulated themselves from comments from anyone but actual customers. From my understanding, you can't even file a problem unless you have already paid for a license.

Seems like the only way to post your opinion is on GameSquad. Not as though they care about it. :damn:

That`s plain wrong. As a Demo user, you can enter the ticket system with your (registered demo) e-mail adress.

See here:

http://www.stormeaglestudios.com/readydesk/readydesk/rdlogin.aspx

Z.

btw. Jutland is great fun with even bigger potential. We are suffering some problems in the campaign right now, but within 24 hours a new (the third btw. in 10 days, other companies don`t deliver three patches in a games lifetime) will be out. Top notch service from SES as it was in DG.

[Task Force]

Only issue Im having is that my battlecruiser gets its big a** kicked and the British battle cruiser (who looks like swiss cheese) inst even listing. (and Ive hit its aamo locker too/damaged some of its guns.):-?

[CaptHawkeye]

Only issue Im having is that my battlecruiser gets its big a** kicked and the British battle cruiser (who looks like swiss cheese) inst even listing. (and Ive hit its aamo locker too/damaged some of its guns.):-?
Hits right into a magazine aren't guaranteed to make it blow up. Even in pre-Jutland British with crappy flash fire security. That's honestly what I love about games like this. Their is no "headshot".

Anyway, my first campaign as the Kaiserliche Marine is essentially over. I ambushed Hood's battlecruiser squadron and ruled it. The next morning sure enough Beatty and Jellicoe were on my fleet. My lack of destroyers meant his light ships were able to get close to mine and break the line apart thus ending the HSF. Hipper and Sheer were both killed, though I did managed to kill Beatty and Hood as well. Jellicoe is going to be a lonely man. What did I learn?

A. Keep the Scouting Force and HSF in the same Task Force. Seperating them is just a nonsense way to get one of them killed. You don't really need to use the SF for long range recon anyway since the Zeppelins are way better at it. Though they're still quite usefull for detached pursuit and local scouting.

B. Do not sacrifice your DDs. I had been hoping the promise of light forces meant i'd see more destroyers and cruisers but it did not translate into that. German DDs aren't as good as British DDs so their only real hope is to keep close to the capital ships.

Don't get me wrong, if the enemy presents you with a golden oppurtunity for a torpedo attack, go with it. Just be cautious about it.

C. The British have Armoured Cruisers and you don't. This means the British have an excellent medium vessel that they aren't afraid to use frequently and it can still kick the ass of all your lighter forces. Armoured Cruisers are also surprisingly durable. I think of all the vessels in the game, they are sunk or even heavily damaged the least. Armoured Cruisers are real Jack of All Trades. They're too small and manueverable to be frequently hit by primaries, yet they are too well defended for your light ships to deal with them.

[Sonarman]

Much as I like the scope of the game, I can't stand the counter intuitive camera controls, having to move the mouse to the absolute extremes of the screen simply to pan the camera is just stupid from a usability point of view. The keypad controls are similarly obtuse. They should implement the middle mouse drag pan that most games feature these days and perhaps a ctrl+arrow keys as the keyboard equivalent that would be a big improvement.

[Task Force]

Why are my battle cruisers being kicked in the a** so badly. The brits arnt takeing damage as they should. (there ships are full of holes at the waterline) My ships are sinking. Ive lost my entire scouting force.

(once had a bc and a cruiser go into combat, bc riped cruisers side open (most of its starbord side) and it didnt sink.:o

[PeriscopeDepth]

Much as I like the scope of the game, I can't stand the counter intuitive camera controls, having to move the mouse to the absolute extremes of the screen simply to pan the camera is just stupid from a usability point of view. The keypad controls are similarly obtuse. They should implement the middle mouse drag pan that most games feature these days and perhaps a ctrl+arrow keys as the keyboard equivalent that would be a big improvement. I hate the mouse camera controls as well. I use my num keypad for controlling the camera. And the page up/down keys.

Why are my battle cruisers being kicked in the a** so badly. The brits arnt takeing damage as they should. (there ships are full of holes at the waterline) My ships are sinking. Ive lost my entire scouting force.

(once had a bc and a cruiser go into combat, bc riped cruisers side open (most of its starbord side) and it didnt sink.:o It's gotta be something. Jutland's damage model is excellent, a huge step up from RJW. Any more details? Do you have the ACH options on or off? What class BC was it? What kind of cruiser was it? Range of engagement? Note that the Brit ACs are some of the most resilient ships in the game.

PD

[Task Force]

Wish I would have taken noticed. It was at close range (3 times the lenght of my ship.) Almose every shell hit it

[Raptor1]

It's very likely that your cruiser (Since the Germans only have CL), cannot penetrate the Battlecruiser's belt armor, and is therefore not doing much to it

I would suggest you not get into such range at all as the Germans, the British have worse long-range accuracy and MUCH heavier guns

[Task Force]

Should have said that I was the German battle cruiser and the cruiser was british.

Oah well. Im not gona wory about it not, the brits force was twice the size of ares about 50ships to my 25 or so. (they had about 8 battlecruisers.) wipped my force out.

[iambecomelife]

Quote:
"The British have Armoured Cruisers and you don't. This means the British have an excellent medium vessel that they aren't afraid to use frequently and it can still kick the ass of all your lighter forces. Armoured Cruisers are also surprisingly durable. I think of all the vessels in the game, they are sunk or even heavily damaged the least. Armoured Cruisers are real Jack of All Trades. They're too small and manueverable to be frequently hit by primaries, yet they are too well defended for your light ships to deal with them."


Really? That's a surprise - I was under the impression that British armored cruisers were basically the red-headed stepchildren of the fleet. What with "Defence", "Warrior", "Black Prince", and several others meeting untimely ends. Is their light weapons fire effective against your ships, or are you mainly getting hit by their primary armament? IIRC one of the big criticisms of UK armored cruisers was how hard it was to work many of their 2ndary batteries in anything but good weather/seastate conditions...

Interesting comments so far. I am thinking about buying it, but I'm wondering how moddable it is compared to SH3. Has anyone checked file structure & graphics yet?

[PeriscopeDepth]

It's not mod'able at all. The publishers have made clear they won't tolerate it, and have made it as difficult as possible. Everything is more or less hard coded.

Their reasoning is they don't sell as many copies as Ubi does, and need to make the addons themselves to be able to retire.

PD

[PeriscopeDepth]

Really? That's a surprise - I was under the impression that British armored cruisers were basically the red-headed stepchildren of the fleet. What with "Defence", "Warrior", "Black Prince", and several others meeting untimely ends. Is their light weapons fire effective against your ships, or are you mainly getting hit by their primary armament? IIRC one of the big criticisms of UK armored cruisers was how hard it was to work many of their 2ndary batteries in anything but good weather/seastate conditions...
They are excellent, expendable ships for independent scouting. They are able to defeat more or less any DDs they come across, and will probably be able to beat a German CL unless outnumbered.

PD

[CaptHawkeye]

Like I said, Armoured Cruisers are great medium units, which until the advent of the Heavy Cruiser most navies lacked. I appreciate AC's because they deal with light ships nicely. The Germans have nothing to respond with except Capital Ships, and no one expects an Armoured Cruiser to fight a capital ship in a stand up brawl.

Armoured Cruisers and their later replacement Heavy Cruisers are my favorite naval units. They're the biggest surface ships navies are willing to risk using in open operations and they still have all the cool tech of battleships like primary batteries and directors. Armoured Cruisers just have a few holdovers from the Pre-Dreadnought days which does somewhat lessen their value.

To be fair, even the most modern BBs of WW1 had Pre-Tsushima holdovers like huge secondary batteries in casemates and exposed crew guns on the deck. So it kind of annoys me that most of the world navies were all like "Oh man AC's suck get rid of em they're too old." Good going tools, ditch your only medium units so your forces are shoe horned into Light/Heavy. Now your light units serve no purpose other than escort and your heavy units can't be risked anyway! :)

[Raptor1]

It's a shame all of the modern German Armored Cruisers were sunk before the game's timeframe (Speaking specifically of the Blücher, Scharnhorst and Gneisenau), they could've been very useful leading the CL squadrons

[iambecomelife]

Thanks for the responses! I'm not exactly pleased with the modding prospects but it looks like I'll cough up the $, anyway...:)

[Ilpalazzo]

I've been trying the demo and I'm not sure what to think. It looks like fun, but the camera controls are a right pain in the ass. I managed to get it pretty damn good but using the arrow keys to pan the camera around is so slow! Anyway I can make this more 'snappy' so that I may quickly pan with the arrow keys instead of waiting for it to slowly gain momentum?

Anyway, the limited time has made it impossible for me to get a feel for the game. The Duel doesn't seem to have a time limit and that's the one I've been playing. I consistently got my ass kicked as either side against the AI. I was trying to keep my distance and duke it out, but the AI seems to have uber aimbot aim as I can barely hit the enemy ship while they seem to hit me quite often. The very first shots fired by the ai seem to always hit me (lame).

I dunno if I struck on an AI weakness or am playing properly now, but I can win every time if I just bum rush the AI and own them in close combat.

This game seems to be all about maneuvering. Are there any tips I should be aware of to play better/properly? Seems to me that just rushing the AI and getting in close is the way to do it. Tell me I'm wrong because that just seems too easy. Is there any way to improve my gunner's accuracy? They are really very terrible where as the ai is doing well some how. I must be missing a 'hit the target' button or something.

[Raptor1]

The Duel and Red Sky at Morning don't have time limits in the demo

Anyway, are you playing as the British? The Germans can generally aim much better

[CaptHawkeye]

German gunnery is way better than yours less than 17km. Take advantage of the Brit' ships range advantage over the Germans. Sure you'll still be less accurate, at least you can shoot. Most German guns are limited to about 18.5km due to the smaller size of their rounds. 13.5 also does crazy damage when plunging, even against German ship armour.

[Raptor1]

German gunnery is way better than yours less than 17km. Take advantage of the Brit' ships range advantage over the Germans. Sure you'll still be less accurate, at least you can shoot. Most German guns are limited to about 18.5km due to the smaller size of their rounds. 13.5 also does crazy damage when plunging, even against German ship armour.

Actually, the British range advantage (Unless you are counting the 15"-armed ships) is very small, due to the fact that the Germans use lighter shells with a higher muzzle velocity

[CaptHawkeye]

Well yeah it's small. Only the difference of about 2-3km or so because Brit shells are bigger, but only by an inch or so. Still, a few thousand meters of immunity is never a problem.

[Ilpalazzo]

The Duel and Red Sky at Morning don't have time limits in the demo

Anyway, are you playing as the British? The Germans can generally aim much better

Neat, gonna try Red Sky then.

I played as both. I almost won as the Germans one time but seemed to explode and lose instantly. I think it may have been a torpedo? I have been playing and winning as the British though. I just go straight to the german ship and, when close, I beat the hell outta them. I might try the Germans again, but it was annoying. For the most part the British AI just kept running from me and it became time consuming to chase them around the map. As the British, the German AI likes to come right at me. Works for me.

[CaptHawkeye]

Explosions can and will happen to anyone during WW1. It just happens more frequently in British ships because of lax precautions in powder handling and storage.

[smithcorp]

I threw together a Youtube video here:

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=HobQfSiy7mU

smith

[Lagger123987]

Jutland is an okay game, was hoping for more like Destroyer Command or Task Force 1942.

"Explosions can and will happen to anyone during WW1. It just happens more frequently in British ships because of lax precautions in powder handling and storage.", That's one of the reasons why the Hood exploded during its engagement with Bismarck?

[Herman]

"Explosions can and will happen to anyone during WW1. It just happens more frequently in British ships because of lax precautions in powder handling and storage.",

That's one of the reasons why the Hood exploded during its engagement with Bismarck?
I think that you are off by one war. Bismarck sank the Hood in WWII. ;)

[Lagger123987]

"Explosions can and will happen to anyone during WW1. It just happens more frequently in British ships because of lax precautions in powder handling and storage.",

That's one of the reasons why the Hood exploded during its engagement with Bismarck? I think that you are off by one war. Bismarck sank the Hood in WWII. ;)

Yeah I know, but Hood is an WWI-Post WWI BC, and do to the fact that they have lax precautions in powder handling and storage like what you said.

[Raptor1]

"Explosions can and will happen to anyone during WW1. It just happens more frequently in British ships because of lax precautions in powder handling and storage.",

That's one of the reasons why the Hood exploded during its engagement with Bismarck? I think that you are off by one war. Bismarck sank the Hood in WWII. ;)
Yeah I know, but Hood is an WWI-Post WWI BC, and do to the fact that they have lax precautions in powder handling and storage like what you said.
Not exactly, Hood was sunk because of weak aft deck armor (Which she was about to get reinforced) and a fire that spread to the 15" magazines, another one of the problems with BCs

[TheSatyr]

What seems to be the accepted reasoning these days for the loss of the indefatigable,Queen Mary and Invincible is simply a real bad decision made by the Battle Cruiser Force. In general,the ships of the BCF had poor gunnery standards when it came to accuracy. Unlike the Grand Fleet they rarely did any gunnery practice. So they tried to make up for it by increasing their rate of fire,and they did that by throwing out all safety precautions. They left the magazine doors open,they stacked cordite and shells in and around the turrets and well,that is a disaster waiting to happen.

It wouldn't have mattered how thick the armor was on those BCs. Once a turret took a hit and the ammo and cordite cooked off,the flash fire would have an unblocked path to the magazine.

The only reason the Lion didn't blow up after Q turret took a hit was that the turret commander,even though mortally wounded,immediately ordered the magazine flooded. For that,he was awarded the postumous VC.

[TheSatyr]

To this day I'll never understand why Beatty allowed the BCF to operate that way. But then I've always considered Beatty to be a mediocre Admiral who used the newspapers to build up a very undeserved reputation. After all,the BCF was involved in three battles and failed in all three. And each time Beatty found someone else to blame for it instead of his own incompetence.

England is fortunate that the HSF never came out to challenge the Grand Fleet while Beatty commanded the Grand Fleet. My gut feeling is that Beatty would have made a major mistake and the Grand Fleet would have ended up getting hammered.

[Raptor1]

To this day I'll never understand why Beatty allowed the BCF to operate that way. But then I've always considered Beatty to be a mediocre Admiral who used the newspapers to build up a very undeserved reputation. After all,the BCF was involved in three battles and failed in all three. And each time Beatty found someone else to blame for it instead of his own incompetence.

England is fortunate that the HSF never came out to challenge the Grand Fleet while Beatty commanded the Grand Fleet. My gut feeling is that Beatty would have made a major mistake and the Grand Fleet would have ended up getting hammered.

3 Battles and failed in all 3?

AFAIK the BCF engaged in Heligoland, Falklands (Even though not under Beatty), Dogger Bank, Jutland and HMS Repulse engaged 2 German BBs very briefly in the 2nd Battle of Heligoland Bight, all those battles except Jutland and 2nd Heligoland were British tactical victories

[TheSatyr]

Doggerbank was a failure as well. Due to Beatty's signals screwups,the BCF went after the Blucher instead of chasing down Hipper's BCs.

Even Beatty considered Heligoland Bight,Doggerbank and Jutland to be failures,but he blamed it all on his signal man.(Or on the Admiral in charge of the BCF's scouting force,or on his second in command,or on Jellicoe) Not on his poor choice of orders.

Admiral Sturdee was in command at the Falklands. The Invincible and inflexible were on detached duty so that does not count as a BCF action. And that was one of the few times where battlecruisers were used the way they were intended to be used.

[CaptHawkeye]

To this day I'll never understand why Beatty allowed the BCF to operate that way. But then I've always considered Beatty to be a mediocre Admiral who used the newspapers to build up a very undeserved reputation. After all,the BCF was involved in three battles and failed in all three. And each time Beatty found someone else to blame for it instead of his own incompetence.
It depends on what you're blaming Beatty for really. He gets lots of flack for having 'bad communications' with forces, but that's a problem everyone had during the era. That's just what you get for using signal flags on dirty, smokey, distant dreadnoughts.

That being said, I actually agree that Beatty was a pretty spotty commander, but then again most national leadership during WW1 was pretty awful. I mean, they convienently setup the Royal Navy for piecemeal elimination by the HSF using those akward "Battlecruiser Squadrons".

England is fortunate that the HSF never came out to challenge the Grand Fleet while Beatty commanded the Grand Fleet. My gut feeling is that Beatty would have made a major mistake and the Grand Fleet would have ended up getting hammered.
Probably not. No matter what the Kaiser thought the High Seas Fleet was never going to get it's day. After Jutland resources were diverted back to the German Army while Royal Navy only got bigger and bigger. Germany had...what, the 4 Bayern class BBs in production? While Britain had the Revenge and even more Queen Elizabeth classes on the way out with further designs on the drawing board. Beyond that, quality issues with Britain's ammunition had been fixed, and better safety standards meant that explosive British ships were much less frequent.

The end was nigh for Germany the moment Jellicoe crossed Sheer's T at Jutland. This left him with only 2 useless options, suicidally attack Jellicoe head on or try to run away.

Doggerbank was a failure as well. Due to Beatty's signals screwups,the BCF went after the Blucher instead of chasing down Hipper's BCs.
I'm trying to say, is that really Beatty's fault? It's not like it was the first time that important orders had been missed or misunderstood during WW1. If anything blame should be laid on the Captain of HMS Tiger who failed to engage Moltke. Allowing the ship to inflict crippling damage on Lion which meant Beatty was unable to keep up with the line and continue giving orders. If Beatty was still able to participate in the battle does anyone here seriously think he would have just let his ships waste time with Blucher?

[Bis71]

My review:

gamesquad.com/index.php?option=com_articles&id=8&pform=&aid=210

[CaptHawkeye]

A con i'd list the game with is "poor wide scale unit control". The devs still haven't implemented a way to control huge specified formations simply. From the looks of it, they don't intend to either. They just want you to issue individual headings to every formation in your fleet.

[Bis71]

Actually, you can use either "Task Force" to control everything or use "click & drag" to control multiple divisions.

[CaptHawkeye]

If you try to give a "Turn by Succession" order while in Task Force mode the entire fleet will end up in a stupid mess as they all turn into each other. The problem isn't direction finding it's distance keeping which none of the ships are inclined to do themselves.

[Bis71]

If you try to give a "Turn by Succession" order while in Task Force mode the entire fleet will end up in a stupid mess as they all turn into each other. The problem isn't direction finding it's distance keeping which none of the ships are inclined to do themselves.

True, but then you can use the "Guide on" order to try to sort things outt. The problem may be that fleet actions don't start with an overll "Enemy sighted" command that would give divisions a template for coordinated movement. Such a command would be nice.

[CaptHawkeye]

"Guide on" only makes ships follow eachother single file. It astounds me that the developers didn't set it to mean "maintain distance and direction from X ship". I guess they figured you needed to have a "Form New Division" command twice.

[MoToM]

You can issue the Guide on command to the lead ship of one formation to follow the tail ship of another formation.

Just started a new German campaign, overly aggresive, split the HSF into three and patrolled lower north sea together.
Having them split worked a treat.
The British BattleCruiser fleet engaged one of the smaller offshoots at around 3am and didn't notice the other two formations creeping up from the south.
After a slightly confused clash only one BC escaped for the loss of a number of DD's and only one BB for me.

The North Sea is now mine.

[Bis71]

Don't you just love it when a plan comes together?:D

[Lempereur1]

Here are a couple of Great Screeens from some Jutland Gamers...
http://www.stormeaglestudios.com/public/images/Jutland/Jutland_User_Screens_01/Jutland_kamfeb11_3561778_seconds-1.jpghttp://www.stormeaglestudios.com/public/images/Jutland/Jutland_User_Screens_01/Jutland_kamfeb14b_4056022_second-1.jpg

[Lempereur1]

This one is awesome sunset. www.stormeaglestudios.com
http://www.stormeaglestudios.com/public/images/Jutland/Jutland_User_Screens_01/SunsetBattlecruisers.jpg

[Lempereur1]

Direct Hit! www.stormeaglestudios.com
http://www.stormeaglestudios.com/public/images/Jutland/Jutland_User_Screens_01/Jutland_15inchpt2_6260_seconds.jpg

[Lempereur1]

This is a great shot from above looking down. www.stormeaglestudios.com (http://www.stormeaglestudios.com)
http://www.stormeaglestudios.com/public/images/Jutland/Jutland_User_Screens_01/Jutland_BattleshipAITest_207_second.jpg

[Lempereur1]

This is an excellent shot of a night battle with flares. www.stormeaglestudios.com (http://www.stormeaglestudios.com)
http://www.stormeaglestudios.com/public/images/Jutland/Jutland_User_Screens_01/j017.jpg

[Lempereur1]

An excellent shot of a Battlecruiser under fire. www.stormeaglestudios.com (http://www.stormeaglestudios.com)
http://www.stormeaglestudios.com/public/images/Jutland/Jutland_User_Screens_01/Jutland_The_Morning_of_the_Battlecruisers_3555_sec onds.jpg

[Lempereur1]

All fo the above shots were posted by Jutland Gamers using the Jutalnd Pro Edition.
None have been retouched or altered in any way.

We will be featuring a user best screen shots on our website shortly.

Jim Rose
Kapellmeister
StormEagleStudios.com

[Lempereur1]

One more great Evening shot.
http://www.stormeaglestudios.com/public/images/Jutland/Jutland_User_Screens_01/Jutland_h_2794863_seconds.jpg

[Bullethead]

Well, this seems to be the most recent thread and I gotta start somewhere, so here goes....

What seems to be the accepted reasoning these days for the loss of the indefatigable,Queen Mary and Invincible is simply a real bad decision made by the Battle Cruiser Force. In general,the ships of the BCF had poor gunnery standards when it came to accuracy. Unlike the Grand Fleet they rarely did any gunnery practice. So they tried to make up for it by increasing their rate of fire,and they did that by throwing out all safety precautions. They left the magazine doors open,they stacked cordite and shells in and around the turrets and well,that is a disaster waiting to happen.

While this is, as you say, a generally accepted argument, I find a lot of fault in it. The root cause of the problem was that Brit cordite burned so fast even when uncontained that it was for all intents and purposes an explosion. OTOH, the German propellant just burned, never generating the gas overpressures necessary to tear a ship apart. I cite just 2 of quite a few examples:
At Jutland, when Lion's Q turret burned out, it was only the 8 charges in the hoists and approved waiting positions that ignited some few minutes after the hit. There wasn't a huge pile of exposed cordite, the magazine doors were closed, and part of Q turret was already missing so their was a way for the gas pressure to vent. Despite all this, however, these few charges created enough overpressure to seriously distort the magazine bulkheads and doors, which would have allowed flash into the magazines and blown the ship, had not the magazines already been flooded by that time.

OTOH, at Dogger Bank, Seydlitz had 2 turrets burn out, with MANY more charges exposed than there should have been, and the magazine doors open. Charges in the magazine actually ignited. However, there was zero overpressure, just a big fire. The only concern the Germans had was that the heat would eventually cook off the HE in the adjacent shell rooms, but they had the fire out before that happened.
So, the evidence points to the Brits blowing up if they got sparks in the powder train between gun and magazine, even if they followed all their safety precautions. Germans were much less likely to blow up, but still did occasionally. However, all German explosions do seem to have been from HE in their shells, not from their propellant.

What we did in Jutland, therefore, was put in an option for you. It's called an "advanced critical hit" or ACH. The one in question gives the Brits a 20% chance of blowing up if they suffer a penetration of a main turret if you enable it. If you turn this off, then everybody has an equal, but low, chance of blowing up occasionally. We feel that having this on is more realistic, but that having it off makes MP games work better.

BTW, the 20% chance of explosion on a main turret penetration is actually a bit lower than it was in real life. If you dig through Campbell's Jutland: An Analysis of the Fighting, you'll find it was closer to 30% in real life.

It wouldn't have mattered how thick the armor was on those BCs. Once a turret took a hit and the ammo and cordite cooked off,the flash fire would have an unblocked path to the magazine.

This is especially true in WW1. Contrary to popular belief, there really wasn't much plunging fire then, even at long range. In 1916, only a couple of German ships had even 16^ main gun elevation--most had 13.5^--and the Brits weren't much better. As a result, the angle of fall even at long range wasn't more than about 20-30^, which the thin decks of the time pretty much were able to handle. The main damage at Jutland was done to vertical armor: belts, turrets, barbettes, etc.

[Bullethead]

"Guide on" only makes ships follow eachother single file. It astounds me that the developers didn't set it to mean "maintain distance and direction from X ship". I guess they figured you needed to have a "Form New Division" command twice.

A valid point. I wanted this as a feature myself back when we were hashing out design parameters. Didn't make it in due to the need for other stuff. And when you come right down to it, it's really not that difficult to give orders to each division individually.

You do NOT have to use "Form New Division" at all in any of this, and I really can't imagine why you'd want to. That's not what that command is for.

You might want to check out this fleetwork tutorial I recently posted over at our official forum. In this, you learn how to turn a BB squadron in the proper direction while simultaneously shifting its nearby DDs from their starting ASW screen positions to their surface action positions.
http://forums.gamesquad.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=1993

Something to keep in mind about Jutland....

These are HUGE battles. In real life, there were about a dozen admirals present on each side, due to the complexity of maneuvering such fleets. But in the game, there's only 1 of you in single player. Thus, you can pause whenever you want to be each of these admirals. Or you can do these battles (or those you create yourself) in MP to divide the workload.

[CaptHawkeye]

In all honesty "Pause the game to issue hugely complex orders to multiple squadrons." Just doesn't work. I want to play a naval sim here, not a turn based jRPG. I've also been told to "use the map" but again, what year is it? 2009 or 1999? I'm trying to play a 3D naval sim here not Task Force 1942. :)

I think Jutland is an excellently detailed game with astounding workmanship. The problem to me is, the controls are just awful. Huge fleet formations are nearly absurd to control. The justification that "real admirals had huge workloads too" needs a bit of thought. Real Admirals didn't give precise direction changes to every formation lead in the fleet.

For some reason, I found the controls in DG to just be better. They didn't lag at all, and gave a satisfying sound chime to clearly indicate a command had been accepted.

On the brightside, recent patches have largely fixed the gunnery issues. Opening salvo by enemy ship used to hit like 50% of the time. From then on accuracy would just get worse and worse. You'd have one straddle after another, and then for some reason you'd get a bunch of salvos that are nowhere near the target even when it was unobscured and unchanging in direction/speed.

[Bullethead]

In all honesty "Pause the game to issue hugely complex orders to multiple squadrons." Just doesn't work. I want to play a naval sim here, not a turn based jRPG. I've also been told to "use the map" but again, what year is it? 2009 or 1999? I'm trying to play a 3D naval sim here not Task Force 1942. :)

The game can't read your mind. It doesn't now and can't ever be made to anticipate your desires. No game can do that. Thus, you will ALWAYS have to give orders to your subordinate formations, at least initially.

So what's the difference, really, between telling a division to move to a certain distance and bearing from a given other ship, and giving the division course and speed orders to move to the same place? Zero. You still have to take the time to give the order to all your divisions either way. So up to this point, what you're suggesting and what the game already has is a wash.

The difference would come in only where you want the subordinate division to maintain a relative range and bearing to some other ship, regardless of that ship's subsequent maneuvers. In your suggestion, that would be automatic but in the game at present, you have to turn the subordinates yourself. Looks like you win on the 1st look here. However, it's not so simple....

To do this sort of thing, the AI has to plot a course and speed to regain its position after the reference ship turns. It might have a number of options of courses and speeds to choose from. It will have to pick on, and it can't read your mind. Thus, odds are the one it chooses won't be t your tastes, and you'll have to give it orders manually to conform to your overall plan. And this is if the move it has to make is even possible.

Problem is, there are MANY potential turns by the reference ship that would make it very difficult, if not impossible, for the subordinates ever to regain their station. The subordinates might not be fast enough, or there might be other ships in the way. And then there's the enemy, whose presence of course can trigger other AI behaviors.

What's the poor maneuvering AI supposed to do in these sorts of situations? It would have to fall back on some default behavior. But what would that be? It can't read your mind, remember. So should it go to the rear, the disengaged side, the front, or just follow along as best it can, perhaps fouling the range for the ships you really care about? Or perhaps just sail off into the blue? In all likelihood, no matter what the AI did, you wouldn't like it, so you'd have to give it new orders. Which is the same as giving it new orders yourself anyway, without the AI trying anything.

Believe me, I argued for the same sort of thing a couple of years ago in early development. But Norm explained to me the above, and so the only autopilot thing we have is the unambiguous case of following directly behind another division.

Jutland most definitely ain't TF1942. Instead of being a naval FPS, with fleet command a very distant 2nd place, it's a game about fleet command. You're the top brass. Your job is to maneuver your forces advantageously. You don't aim the guns and such things. So if you handed over control of maneuver to the AI, you wouldn't have much impact on the course of events, would you?

BTw, in the campaign or in battles you make in the editor, you can simplify the process considerably by rearranging your task forces into formations that don't require any deployment at the start of a battle.

[RedChico]

Quick Q.
Are you going to provide the full 1914-18 "campaign"?

[Sonarman]

I've also been told to "use the map" but again, what year is it? 2009 or 1999? I'm trying to play a 3D naval sim here not Task Force 1942. :)


I actually prefer to use the 2d map and don't like giving orders in the 3d view (that's the way they did it in real life remember) I was very glad to see that this feature was added to Jutland:up: .

However I would say that the 2D map in TF1942 & indeed Fighting Steel is a lot better than the very simple 2d map in Jutland. I'd like to see the Jutland map full screen when maximised rather than a square in the middle of the screen, with text labels added to identify vessels/groups etc. Also it would be good if SES could eliminate the annoying pause & accompanying loading bar every time the map is zoomed in /zoomed out, also standard "windows-looking" UI features like this tend to pull the player out of the atmosphere of the game.

The other feature I think Jutland is most missing is the ability to pan the cam by holding a mouse button (usually middle) and dragging left/ right this is standard in most sims/FPS etc. Its very annoying to constantly have to move the mouse to the extremes of the screen just to perform a simple pan of the camera.

[Bullethead]

Are you going to provide the full 1914-18 "campaign"?

I'm afraid not. It's just too big to be done within the time, budget, and manpower available.

WW1 in the North Sea can be thought of as having 3 distinct eras: 1914-1915, 1916, and 1917-1918. In the beginning, there were a lot of predreads and old cruisers still around, very few ships had advanced fire control, and torpedoes had relatively low performance. In the middle, what Jutland covers, most of the old ships were gone, most capital ships had advanced fire control, and torps had medium performance. In the end, nearly all ships had some form of advanced fire control, a lot of new ships had come into service, most existing ships had been modified more or less extensively, torps had relatively high performance, and gun elevations were increased.

When looked at from the POV of game development, each of these eras represents about the same amount of work, at least in terms of making models and amassing ship and weapon data. In fact, while we only have to built the game engine from scratch once, there were enough technological, doctrinal, and tactical changes between these eras to warrant some rather large tweaks to it for each timeframe. IOW, making a full-year campaign would have taken nearly 3 times as long as it took to make just 1916.

Thus, we concentrated on 1916, for the Jutland timeframe. We hopefully will release expansion packs in the future that will have new ships, as well early- and late-war versions of existing ships. We don't know if we'll make campaigns including these ships yet or not, but they will at least be useable along with the existing ships in the scenario editor. Time and money permitting, we might also go to different theaters or time periods.

[Bullethead]

[quote=CaptHawkeye]The other feature I think Jutland is most missing is the ability to pan the cam by holding a mouse button (usually middle) and dragging left/ right this is standard in most sims/FPS etc. Its very annoying to constantly have to move the mouse to the extremes of the screen just to perform a simple pan of the camera.

Well, you can at present pan the view, as well as strafe, using the numpad. I do pretty much all my POV moves with the numpad, only using the mouse to select ships or jump the POV across the battlefield.

[Lempereur1]

There are 5 different camera modes in the game to choose from.

Here is the link to download the Full Game/Trial version.
http://www.stormeaglestudios.com/products/jutland/bu73sq/jutland_setup.exe

You can play 2 of the scenarios for free and unlimited time.

These will also function via Multiplayer.

In the trial version, the rest of the scenarios can be previewed for 10/20 mins so that you can see the large Battles, models, etc.

The F1 key will bring up the command menu.

One thing to remember, Jutland is not a ship simulator, ala Silent Hunter. Silent Hunter puts 5 or 6 ships in the frame, at very high detail, while you have total control of the U Boat.

It is a "Fleet Simulator". We have stuck a balance between Micromanagement of each ship and managing the entire Fleet.

Jutland puts 80-90 ships into frame, with very high detail, and manages a real time, true ballistics game environment that tracks every single shell fired in the game, in real time all the way to impact. No "consult the combat tabgles to see how much damage you caused". Instead, each and every shell is tracked to see if it impacys on the hull, deck, etc of the polygon on the ship model. At that point, it trys to penetrate the armored at that polygon (where each polygon has an armor thickness) with a realistic, true physics ballistics model (did I mention that Norm Koger, Lead Programmer for SES, has a Master's Degree in Physics from Texas A&M?).


If you have not tried Jutland, you may be missing what most of the users that have bought the game say, may be the best Naval Simulation ever produced!

http://www.stormeaglestudios.com/products/jutland/bu73sq/jutland_setup.exe

Here is the Jutland Page link and the Jutland Info Brochure link.

Jutland Page
http://stormeaglestudios.com/public/html/se_Jutland_v2.html

Jutland Info Brochure
http://stormeaglestudios.com/public/Downloads/Jutland_Resources/Jutland%20Info%

If you have Vista, you need to run the game as Administrator.

Jim Rose

[magick]

Hello guys, I have a question, is this great game only avaible on download or is there also a CD or DVD box version? Greetings, magick1971.

[Bullethead]

Hello guys, I have a question, is this great game only avaible on download or is there also a CD or DVD box version? Greetings, magick1971.

It's download-only. It's just not cost-effective for us to make a boxed version at present.

BTW, welcome aboard!

[MoToM]

Just have to voice my continuing support for this game,
The camera feels like a larger scale version of the Total War camera so no problems, I find it easy to use especially in conjunction with the following camera.

Bullethead has stated on the other forum that playing without saving is the true experience and I agree, I also feel that pausing is an exploit.

I never pause, in battles or the map and I don't feel too rushed. Admittedly I rarely accelerate except towards the end of battles or during prolonged long-range engagements, all the while issuing commands within the 3D view.

I realise camera and command styles are different for everyone but I feel that Jutlands system gets a disproportionate slating.

Just my two cents.

[magick]

Hello guys, I have a question, is this great game only avaible on download or is there also a CD or DVD box version? Greetings, magick1971.

It's download-only. It's just not cost-effective for us to make a boxed version at present.

BTW, welcome aboard!

ok, downloaded the demo version and my first impressions of the game are very good:) nice work! :)

[Lempereur1]

Hello guys, I have a question, is this great game only avaible on download or is there also a CD or DVD box version? Greetings, magick1971.

It's download-only. It's just not cost-effective for us to make a boxed version at present.

BTW, welcome aboard!

ok, downloaded the demo version and my first impressions of the game are very good:) nice work! :)

Enjoy!

The link to the manual is in the Start-Program Group for Storm Eagle.

HIt the F1 key to bring up the Hot Ket list.

THere are also 5 different Sets of Camera Controls that you can test to see which one you like.

Enjoy!

Jim Rose

[Bis71]

What amazes me is how each battle plays out differently each time. I play "The Duel" when I have a limited amount of time. Every time, regardless of time, the AI uses different approaches. Sometimes aggressive, sometimes it turns tail immediately.