Das Boot Q

[mara_eNtrO]

About a month ago I re-watched Das Boot which I hadn't seen since I was probably 15 or so.

It was a great film, one of the best war films out there, but I have to say I was colossally disappointed in the the ending.

Can any of you history buffs tell me if thats really what happened to the crew, or the reasoning/thought process that went into the ending of the movie. I feel like if I understand the ending whether its historically based or theres some logic to it this bitter after taste of the movie will disappear! Right now it just seems like a lazy copout of an ending :-?

Please someone bring rays of :sunny: to this great film! :)

[von Zelda]

Can any of you history buffs tell me if thats really what happened to the crew, or the reasoning/thought process that went into the ending of the movie.

The book/movie is an historically based FICTION. The ending allows the reader to draw his own conclusion about the story.

That said, you might draw some meaning from the fact that these U-boat men went through harrowing dangers at sea only to return to port to face even more danger and death from the RAF bombing attacks on their French Atlantic bases.

Lothar-Gunther Buchheim, a real life war correspondent who made several U-boat cruises which are the basis for his books and this movie, most likely was never in a life or death situation as depicted in the scenes off Gibraltar nor the scenes at the end of the movie as they returned to base. But, he could still accurately write a war fiction based on his experience aboard U-boats.

In my humble opinion, Das Boot (book or movie) will always remain one of the best!

[DanBiddle]

The book is actually mostly based on real events, as Buchheim went out on one patrol on U-96 with Kptlt. Heinrich Lehmann-Willenbrock in command. On this patrol they did meet another boat mid-Atlantic in a storm, and sat on the bottom of the straits of Gibraltar after being bombed.

The ending is the only fictional part of the book, as Willenbrock survived the war.

http://www.uboat.net/boats/u96.htm

Cheers,

Dan

[geosub1978]

For sure, they sunk only one merchant during the attack and they where heavily damaged during the attempt to break in the Mediteranea Sea. For sure also, they came under attack immediately after getting in the shellter, but nobody got hurt!

[von Zelda]

The ending is the only fictional part of the book, as Willenbrock survived the war.
http://www.uboat.net/boats/u96.htm

Well, not quite so. Here is the quote from U-boat.net. Please read the bold text.

30 Nov, 1941
While penetrating the Straits of Gibraltar, U-96 was attacked at 2235hrs by a British Swordfish aircraft. Suffering some damage, the boat dived, surfaced in the next morning at 0445hrs, and headed back to base in France. The much longer and more dramatic stay in the deep described by Buchheim in his novel Das Boot was one of the numerous occasions in this book where the author fictionalized the events he experienced during his time as a war correspondent on U-96. (Sources: Blair, vol 1, page 401)

[Kapt Z]

Funny, I don't think I have heard from anyone who saw 'Das Boot' and said 'wow, what a great ending!':p

I also, from the first time I saw it, said 'oh, come on!'. I'm sure it was meant to shatter us with the complete waste and hopeless nature of war. I wish they had come up with another way of saying that. I think the idea that even if they made safe to base they were still going to be sent out again in a month or so would be more chilling.

For me, one of the most haunting scenes in the movie is the change in Thomsen's expression as he bid's them farewell as they are just starting their patrol. Despite his cheerful shouts, he knows what is waiting for them out there.:nope:

[Kapt Z]

Re the ending, this is from IMDB:

"Because the original TV mini-series was severely criticized in Germany for portraying World War II Germans sympathetically, the producer greeted the first American showing of the film at the Los Angeles Film Festival with great trepidation. They weren't sure how a former enemy nation in that war would react the film, especially in a city with a large Jewish population, and their fears were reinforced when the audience applauded the opening caption saying 30,000 of 40,000 German submariners were lost in the war. However, when the film ended, the audience gave the film a standing ovation in appreciation of the artistry of the filmmakers."

I think that's why they pretty much all die at the end, kind of a "trade off" so to speak to preserve everyone's sensibility and not make the characters look like the winning heroes.

Strange since it always seemed to me an outright ANTI-NAZI film. :hmm:

[Dowly]

The ending is semi-fictional, the boat was sunk in an airraid as said at Uboat.net;

Sunk on 30 March, 1945 by US bombs in Wilhelmshaven.

Still, I dont mind the ending being fiction, it's one of the most powerfull scenes I've seen to sum up the Uboat war from german POV. You get home despite everything, only to not be safe even there.

[bootmang]

Strange since it always seemed to me an outright ANTI-NAZI film. :hmm:

Pretty much. The young nazi officer was portrayed as an awkward douchebag.

A sort of theme I picked up from the movie was that fighting on the side of something doesn't necessarily mean that one is fighting FOR that thing. The same idea comes across in the movie Stalingrad.

I wonder what it is about those critics that can't seem to differentiate between the young and very human men (sometimes just boys) plunged into the hell of a conflict and the ideologies on which those conflicts were based. Is a knownothing 18 year old pissing his pants in battle any less human or worthy of having his humanity recognized because of the tabs on his collar?

[kenijaru]

Is a ... 18 year old pissing his pants in battle any less human or worthy of having his humanity recognized because of the tabs on his collar?

No, it's not. But the setting being WW2 (or WW1) and his surname being Bahr does, at least on the minds of most people. And it's a shame that it does. :nope:

[bootmang]

Is a ... 18 year old pissing his pants in battle any less human or worthy of having his humanity recognized because of the tabs on his collar?
No, it's not. But the setting being WW2 (or WW1) and his surname being Bahr does, at least on the minds of most people. And it's a shame that it does. :nope:

Right, and it's sad/funny also because it takes the same kind of denial that made those atrocities of the era possible in the first place. That same black and white attitudes. The same cocksure unexamined self-righteousness.

[mara_eNtrO]

I've always thought of it as an anti-nazie, anti-war film as well.

One of the opening scenes out right criticizes Hitler and the Nazis when that other captain (whos earned an iron cross), drunk as a human can possibly be bites his tongue after giving an incredibly sarcastic speech.

Also all the characters are portrayed with humanity, deep flaws, and emotions. Not as 'superhumans' which is what a pro-nazi film would have portrayed them as.

Perhaps the reason why the movie was not taken well when it was first released was because people, understandably, dehumanize and demonize the nazis. Das Boot broke this mold, it didn't try to glorify the men of that u-boat and it didn't try make them seem less than human, it simply portryed them human. Fact of the matter is, despite all the terrible things the naizes did, they were humans and in that way are an example of what we as a species are capable of (on the horrific end of the spectrum) and I think that is why people feel really uncomfterable when thinking about the Nazis.

I understand peoples views about the ending being ironic or showing the reality of war and I thought of those things after watching it, but I don't know I just still feel like it was a copout of an ending :-? Still a great movie though.

[Tachyon]

Well, the movie was set in a fairly late period during the war, when the tide had begun to turn against the Germans.

So, you can't really blame them for having less faith in Der Fuhrer. Hence, the anti-nazi sentiments in the movie.

As for the ending... well I found it really sad. Come on, they worked their ass off just to get home alive and then get bombed to pieces. The scene where the Captain dies as the U-Boat sinks was masterfully done. It's almost as if his life was tied to the sub.

(Oh wait, didn't Dowly already post something similar to the above paragraph? :P )

Kudos to you Wolfgang Peterson for giving us an accurate portrayal of U-boats and the futility of war (unlike some other **** movies like U-571).

[Dowly]

Well, the movie was set in a fairly late period during the war, when the tide had begun to turn against the Germans.

So, you can't really blame them for having less faith in Der Fuhrer. Hence, the anti-nazi sentiments in the movie.

As for the ending... well I found it really sad. Come on, they worked their ass off just to get home alive and then get bombed to pieces. The scene where the Captain dies as the U-Boat sinks was masterfully done. It's almost as if his life was tied to the sub.

(Oh wait, didn't Dowly already post something similar to the above paragraph? :P )

Kudos to you Wolfgang Peterson for giving us an accurate portrayal of U-boats and the futility of war (unlike some other **** movies like U-571).

Yoo ******* following me? :D

[Tachyon]

Well, the movie was set in a fairly late period during the war, when the tide had begun to turn against the Germans.

So, you can't really blame them for having less faith in Der Fuhrer. Hence, the anti-nazi sentiments in the movie.

As for the ending... well I found it really sad. Come on, they worked their ass off just to get home alive and then get bombed to pieces. The scene where the Captain dies as the U-Boat sinks was masterfully done. It's almost as if his life was tied to the sub.

(Oh wait, didn't Dowly already post something similar to the above paragraph? :P )

Kudos to you Wolfgang Peterson for giving us an accurate portrayal of U-boats and the futility of war (unlike some other **** movies like U-571).
Yoo ******* following me? :D

After the stunt you pulled off with Arma and the subsequent luring of perhaps 1000s of Subsimmers, I'm inclined to. :rotfl:

Seriously though, I didn't notice your post until I accidentally scrolled up the thread.

[Dowly]

Ya ya, excuses! ;)

[Tachyon]

Ya ya, excuses! ;)
Lol... if you need proof, you'll notice that I edited my post to include the reference to you :P . Anyway, my job is to ensure some people still post on the forums and not spend their lives glued to Arma ;) .

Btw, this youtube movie (fairly old but brilliantly done) brings back some good old memories of Das Boot. And all of this was done using Silent Hunter 3. This one features the surface attack on the convoy depicted in the movie.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=wwqvjyn22Ys

[kenijaru]

Also all the characters are portrayed with humanity, deep flaws, and emotions. Not as 'superhumans' which is what a pro-nazi film would have portrayed them as.

Perhaps the reason why the movie was not taken well when it was first released was because people, understandably, dehumanize and demonize the nazis. Das Boot broke this mold, it didn't try to glorify the men of that u-boat and it didn't try make them seem less than human, it simply portryed them human. Fact of the matter is, despite all the terrible things the naizes did, they were humans and in that way are an example of what we as a species are capable of (on the horrific end of the spectrum) and I think that is why people feel really uncomfterable when thinking about the Nazis.

Well, humanizing the Nazis was one of the many problems Downfall had. I liked the movie, but most of my friends were horrified by the fact that "Hitler was a human being instead of Beelzebub himself"
BUT... and i think you made a mistake (or didn't express yourself the way yo wanted to, or i failed to understand you...)
[look the quote, specially the lines marked in red]
I get the impression you are saying that the soldiers were mostly sympathizers of the party, but at the same time humans.

The way i see it, Das Boot shows the crews as men, some against the party, some totally in favor and many in the middle. But all of them seem humans. Now, it's important to note that some are anti-Nazis or at least against the high command or the bubble that surrounds Hitler. And both, this fact (that breaks the common belief of "solidiers = nazi party members" ) and the fact that shows the soldiers as humans (again, bein that "soldiers = nazi party members" and "soldiers = humans", we could reach the conclusion that "nazy party members = humans", but that would be negating the first message of the movie)

edit: does this man look like a super human fighting machine? or is he just a 18 year old boy... scared as one can be.
http://www.createforum.com/phpbb/images/avatars/98vg/58420719243b40dc57e599.jpg (it's part from a really famous photo of a Heer soldier carrying an ammo belt)

[Sailor Steve]

@ Tachyon: Actually the movie covers the period from August through December 1941, hardly late in the war. The 'Happy Times' are over, for sure, and the British have beefed up their ASW technology, but the 'Drumbeat' has yet to begin.

I always pictured the ending as being typically German, as they invented opera after all. Don't the heroes always die in German drama? (mostly joking, but that's my sometimes observation).

As for the Nazi 1WO, once I saw the 5-hour version I came away picturing him as less a dedicated Party man that a confused young joiner. After all, he came all the way from Mexico to sign up, because he thought it was the right thing to do. And he likely joined the Party for the same reason, and that he didn't know any better. Nothing at all like the Nazi first mate in John Wayne's The Sea Chase, who waits until the rest of the crew has left to slaughter the Australian radio crew they had previously captured. I feel kind of sorry for the kid, because he can't seem to please anybody and has some real social-skills problems. And, when the chips are down he turns out to be an excellent First Officer, keeping his cool and doing his job well.

While I think it includes far too many submarine-movie cliches, it is still the best sub movie ever, and I watch it every chance I get.

Oh, and as to the original question: Only the captain seems to die in the book, not the other three. And I say "seems to" because there were two sequels, and I understand he was in both of them.

Real life? Lehmann-Willenbrock was technical adviser on the film, so it's a pretty safe bet that he did indeed survive the war.

[Pisces]

I have the directors cut of Das Boot which has as commentary track in which the interviewer talks with the director, the actor playing the Kaleun (and producer I think) for the complete duration of the movie. I can't remember exacty what was said but at the end of it in the harbor, the complete crew or atleast the Kaleun wasn't meant to be portrait as being dead. He just collapsed/passed/cracked under all the drama up to that point.

[AngusJS]

Funny, I don't think I have heard from anyone who saw 'Das Boot' and said 'wow, what a great ending!':p
I think "Wow, what a great ending!" every time I watch Das Boot. :D It's what makes it one of the best anti-war movies ever. You grow connected to U-96, its captain and crew. You cheer for them after they make it back to the surface near Gibraltar, only to have it all taken away at the end by an event beyond their control. When U-96 sinks and the Captain dies, you think what was the point of it all.

[Puster Bill]

@ Tachyon: Actually the movie covers the period from August through December 1941, hardly late in the war. The 'Happy Times' are over, for sure, and the British have beefed up their ASW technology, but the 'Drumbeat' has yet to begin.


Das Boot should have been set in 1943, not 1941.

[sharkbit]

I am always struck more by the faces of the crew at the end of the movie as they are pulling up to the dock, rather than the air raid, the sinking of the sub, and the collapse of the captain.

Compare the look of the crew at the end of the movie to when they are lined up on deck, preparing to sail at the beginning.
Not like the smiling, happy crew that you see in the newsreels and photos.
Their eyes are a lot more haunted and many, if not all, have been changed by what they've gone through. That has always been one of the more striking moments for me in the movie.

I agree with what someone said above. I have never said, "Wow, what a great ending!" In fact I was a little dissapointed in the ending when compared to the book. Maybe I need to watch the movie again-it's been about 5 months since I last saw it.

:)

[gmuno]

The ending is not so good as in the book? Weell, filming a full attack sequence like it's described in the book would have raised the production costs by a large sum, especially since it was filmed full sized and not in model-scale.
Buchheim once said, that if he had known that he would write two sequels, the ending of "Das Boot" would have been quite different.

[Schroeder]

since it was filmed full sized and not in model-scale.
Err, there were two small models of U96 as well. One for surface scenes and one for the submerged scenes. The U-boat dummy on which the crew is standing during leaving and returning to port wasn't used for the scenes at sea IIRC (but it is some 15 years ago since I visited the Bavaria Filmstudios were they told us about the movie).

[Schroeder]

Sorry, it seems I misunderstood you.
I would love to edit/delete my last post, but somehow the button doesn't work.:hmm:

[barkhorn45]

I remember taking my wife to see thhe movie when it first came out.She was not a military history nut like myself by any means but at the end when the ship is bombed and sunk she actually cried saying"after all they went thru to die like that".
I found her reaction moving and quite interesting.She did'nt view them as nazi's but as men enduring the unendurable only to die at the point of seeming safety.

[kailii]

Since this thread is turning nostalgic a little bit i feel a wish to share with you how i learned of U-96.
I was a boy of 12 or 13 years and just loved to pick up those weekly published "mini books" of 64 pages each or whatever that were so popular among little men at that time.
Besides picking up my regular share of "Perry Rhodans" i bought a copy of "Der Landser" one day. This turned out to be not my usual science fiction crap but a nicely written story about a real U-Boat performing real actions and all that. I was completely hooked instantly, but this wasn't a big surprise as i was that type of boy who used a pencil and lots of paper trying to bring back to life the battle of Jutland already, with an emphasis on torpedoes... :lol:

"Der Landser" was (or is, i don't know) a propaganda tool used by some... honorable gentlemen... to glorify war generally and especially pointing out the role the respectable German Wehrmacht played in WWII. Yes, nothing but cheap post war nazi propaganda.

But i still remember reading this booklet. I don't have it in my posession anymore, but i think it must have been written by Buchheim since there were way too many details presented in this booklet which made it into the movies.

And now for the easter egg. I remember reading about an attack on warships in this booklet which never made it into the movie.

If i recall correctly (been some 30 years since then) the submarine U-96 while operating west of England (no time given) spotted two smokestacks on the horizon. The boat approached the sighting which turned out to be an english Nelson type battleship with escorts.

Not many details were given, but from what i can recall the boat attacked the battleship by firing a spread of torpedoes. They did not score a single hit but they escaped without being detected.

I also remember reading about the Captain of the boat after the attack saying something like "there were more opportunities like this at the time".
My guess is that the Rodney or Nelson did not sail without something valuable to protect against, but this is pure imagination.

Would be interesting to hear if anybody else knows about this - oh well - epic failed attack! :D

[Barman]

Funny, I don't think I have heard from anyone who saw 'Das Boot' and said 'wow, what a great ending!':p

I also, from the first time I saw it, said 'oh, come on!'. I'm sure it was meant to shatter us with the complete waste and hopeless nature of war. I wish they had come up with another way of saying that. I think the idea that even if they made safe to base they were still going to be sent out again in a month or so would be more chilling.

For me, one of the most haunting scenes in the movie is the change in Thomsen's expression as he bid's them farewell as they are just starting their patrol. Despite his cheerful shouts, he knows what is waiting for them out there.:nope:
I think this is the intended feeling your supposed to get from it. These men went to hell and back, suffered, and were there for each other, and even when they think they've made it home, and it's over, it's not, because that's war.

I hated seeing those men die after all I'd seen them through though :/.

[Tombow]

I first saw a (heavily edited and cut-down to TV length) version of the movie when i was 14, read the book years later. Now I have both the book and the director's cut DVD.

The movie ending does not live quite up to the ending of the book but witht the filming techniques of that day, I imagine it is the best what could be accomplished. What I don't like about it is that it suggests the Kaleun's death much more overtly than the book where it is all left to the reader's imagination in a frightening last paragraph ("es ist ab er Blut, was aus seinem Mund kommt"). A kind of cliffhanger, but a really grim and gruesome one. It actually points towards death and hopelessness without calling each of these things by name, and THAT is the strongest point of it. The reader is left frightened and wondering if the Kaleun is dead or not and the whole world of "Das Boot" doesn't cease to exist in the moment one have read the book to the very end, it lives after.

The movie ending ruins exactly this afterfeeling...or reduces it with the much more overt suggestion of death. None the less, it is a really strong ending for a war film. For me, it is only second to the ending of "The Bridge on the River Kwai".

[Jimbuna]

IMHO a fair if not too detailed plot/summary:

It is 1942 and the German submarine fleet is heavily engaged in the so called "Battle of the Atlantic" to harass and destroy English shipping. With better escorts of the Destroyer Class, however, German U-Boats have begun to take heavy losses. "Das Boot" is the story of one such U-Boat crew, with the film examining how these submariners maintained their professionalism as soldiers, attempted to accomplish impossible missions, while all the time attempting to understand and obey the ideology of the government under which they served.

[Schroeder]

@Jim

I think it's set in late 1941, isn't it?:hmm:

[Jimbuna]

@Jim

I think it's set in late 1941, isn't it?:hmm:

Yep....Oct 41 http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/thumbsup.gif

Dyslexic fingers http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/wacko.gif

[Dowly]

There was a show about movie genres on finnish telly that ended just 15mins ago. This time it was about WWII movies, and one of them was Das Boot. The usual interviews with Petersen, the Kpt. and some other guy (I think it was the cameraman). Anywho, the interesting part was the video the show had recorded in 2002 from inside the 'U96'. Was nice to see it thru a "clean" camera of today. It even had her diesel's running. :up:

Never knew the sub was built just like the real one, all is metal, to the last rivet. :huh:

[Sailor Steve]

WELCOME ABOARD, kailii!:sunny:

[Schroeder]

@Dowly

The entire inside of the submarine, except for the rear torpedo room, was rebuild after original blue prints (at least the surfaces of the things, I doubt that the diesels and electric motors were really operational for example).
If you should ever pay a visit to Munich you can tour the Bavaria Filmstudios and walk through the engine room.:up:

[Dowly]

I doubt that the diesels and electric motors were really operational for example).
That's something that was left unclear. The guy said "Even the engines are fully working". To what extent, I dont know nor did he tell.

[saltysplash]

An interesting side line,

When the makers of Raiders of the Lost Ark where shooting the film, they where struggling to find a suitable location and U-boat for a couple of scenes.

They toddled off to La Rochelle and found a certain German film company shooting a certain film and borrowed their set and U-boat

[Puster Bill]

An interesting side line,

When the makers of Raiders of the Lost Ark where shooting the film, they where struggling to find a suitable location and U-boat for a couple of scenes.

They toddled off to La Rochelle and found a certain German film company shooting a certain film and borrowed their set and U-boat

...and they ended up breaking it...

[gmuno]

Yep, since they needed for the stopping of the freighter some open sea shots, they went out. When they brought the sub back, some overly enthusiastic people sliced the hull open and since it was only the hull...

The full story will be told at every tour through the Bavaria Studios.

[IanC]

Personaly the only problem I have with the movie ending is the cheap effects. The whole movie was ultra realistic, I really felt like I was there, but that 'air raid' at the end... just didn't do it for me.
btw am I allowed to critic Das Boot on this forum or will I get keelhauled? :)

[ReallyDedPoet]

btw am I allowed to critic Das Boot on this forum or will I get keelhauled? :)

You have just been added to our internal watch list :yep::o:lol:


RDP

[piri_reis]

You guys must be kidding, both Das Boot and BoB have great air attack scenes. Not even close to being cheap IMHO :D

[Piggy]

You guys must be kidding, both Das Boot and BoB have great air attack scenes. Not even close to being cheap IMHO :D

Considering the air battles in BoB were all "real", as in not war recordings seen in most movies from that time I think they look pretty good.

Sure by todays standards they're bad, but BoB movie was made in 60's, or 70's?

Im one of those people that like sad endings, I think Das Boots ending is pretty good. As others have said you get connected to the crew, feel their pain, cheer for them and then the ending...:cry: well it just sort of fits the whole theme of war to me. Im dont think a happy ending (or any other ending for that matter) would have worked with that film.

[Brag]

As a writer, I would have had a return party scene, then shown The U=boat leave harbor with with a stirring march. As the boat fades in the distance I would place text on the screen:

U-XXX left La Rochele on XXX 1943, never to be heard of again.

[Kapt Z]

Funny, I don't think I have heard from anyone who saw 'Das Boot' and said 'wow, what a great ending!':p
I think "Wow, what a great ending!" every time I watch Das Boot. :D It's what makes it one of the best anti-war movies ever. You grow connected to U-96, its captain and crew. You cheer for them after they make it back to the surface near Gibraltar, only to have it all taken away at the end by an event beyond their control. When U-96 sinks and the Captain dies, you think what was the point of it all.

Ok. I stand corrected! :lol:

[StarFox]

Best thing to do, watch Das Boot uncut and play Silent Hunter III

[B.N.R.T.]

All right, that's it, you've done it.

Off to watch Das Boot. Again.

:up::D:D

[Jimbuna]

SINK EM ALL!! http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pirate.gif

[Rhodes]

Best thing to do, watch Das Boot uncut and play Silent Hunter III

But it's something hazardous to do, at same time, because one may forget is kaleunt responsibilities for watching the film and/or, one may shout aaaallaaarrrrmmm or head flank, 90m dept when attacking a convoy because he heard a sonar ping :ping: and thought that was discovered by the escorts, and with was from the movie...

[Sailor Steve]

Sure by todays standards they're bad, but BoB movie was made in 60's, or 70's?
1966. And I watch it regularly on DVD, and except for the painted-on-film planes on fire, it still looks great. The bombing scenes are better than any of the CGI scenes in more modern movies; better in fact than probably anything I've seen except Tora! Tora! Tora!

[Dowly]

Sure by todays standards they're bad, but BoB movie was made in 60's, or 70's? 1966. And I watch it regularly on DVD, and except for the painted-on-film planes on fire, it still looks great. The bombing scenes are better than any of the CGI scenes in more modern movies; better in fact than probably anything I've seen except Tora! Tora! Tora!

Being a HUGE Luftwaffe and especially an Messerschmitt 109E fan, I couldnt even watch the movie to the end. I hated the Italian/Spanish built "109s". Just awful! The engine didnt even have the whining noise to it. :-? And yes, I know, it's an old movie so I shouldnt be that hard on it, but still. :down:

[Jimbuna]

Sure by todays standards they're bad, but BoB movie was made in 60's, or 70's? 1966. And I watch it regularly on DVD, and except for the painted-on-film planes on fire, it still looks great. The bombing scenes are better than any of the CGI scenes in more modern movies; better in fact than probably anything I've seen except Tora! Tora! Tora!

Being a HUGE Luftwaffe and especially an Messerschmitt 109E fan, I couldnt even watch the movie to the end. I hated the Italian/Spanish built "109s". Just awful! The engine didnt even have the whining noise to it. :-? And yes, I know, it's an old movie so I shouldnt be that hard on it, but still. :down:

So how many 109's did you count our boys shooting down :p

[Dowly]

Sure by todays standards they're bad, but BoB movie was made in 60's, or 70's? 1966. And I watch it regularly on DVD, and except for the painted-on-film planes on fire, it still looks great. The bombing scenes are better than any of the CGI scenes in more modern movies; better in fact than probably anything I've seen except Tora! Tora! Tora!
Being a HUGE Luftwaffe and especially an Messerschmitt 109E fan, I couldnt even watch the movie to the end. I hated the Italian/Spanish built "109s". Just awful! The engine didnt even have the whining noise to it. :-? And yes, I know, it's an old movie so I shouldnt be that hard on it, but still. :down:
So how many 109's did you count our boys shooting down :p

If you mean the movie, non, they werent 109s. :p

If you mean the real BoB, I have no idea. One of my books by Mike Spick had the exact numbers, but cant remember which one.:damn:

Anywho, while I'm an Luftwaffe fan, I've always given praise to the allied pilots of the west front. And that's why I keep west front LW aces in higher respect than the ones who fough on the eastern front. To put it bluntly, the Soviet airforce wasnt up to the task of beating LW. Over 1400 planes destroyed by LW in the first day of Operation Barbarossa (planes destroyed on ground included). Joachim Marseille was a real LW ace. :up:

[Sailor Steve]

Being a HUGE Luftwaffe and especially an Messerschmitt 109E fan, I couldnt even watch the movie to the end. I hated the Italian/Spanish built "109s". Just awful! The engine didnt even have the whining noise to it. :-? And yes, I know, it's an old movie so I shouldnt be that hard on it, but still. :down:
It's not a matter of being old, it's a matter of them rounding up all the flyable aircraft they could. Would you have rather they used P-51s like a very old post-war movie I once saw? Or The Hunters, which used F-84s as MiGs?

Today they would use CGI, and you'd be happy because the '109s looked just like the real ones...in a video game!:nope:

[Dowly]

Being a HUGE Luftwaffe and especially an Messerschmitt 109E fan, I couldnt even watch the movie to the end. I hated the Italian/Spanish built "109s". Just awful! The engine didnt even have the whining noise to it. :-? And yes, I know, it's an old movie so I shouldnt be that hard on it, but still. :down: It's not a matter of being old, it's a matter of them rounding up all the flyable aircraft they could. Would you have rather they used P-51s like a very old post-war movie I once saw? Or The Hunters, which used F-84s as MiGs?

Today they would use CGI, and you'd be happy because the '109s looked just like the real ones...in a video game!:nope:

Choice #1: An replica of 109 without the original sound it is known of

or

Choice #2: An CGI 109 with the original sound.

I think I go with the #2.

Here you have an comparisation of the real 109E and the "109E" shown in BoB:

Real
http://www.richard-seaman.com/Aircraft/AirShows/YankeeAirMuseum2005/Highlights/Bf109e2oClock.jpg

And here's the one used in BoB; a The "Hispano Buchon". :-?
http://www.military-aircraft.org.uk/ww2-fighter-planes/messerschmitt-me-109-buchon.jpg

[jazzabilly]

Hitler was a human being instead of Beelzebub himself


He was ony a guy who turned to politics when he couldn't get accepted into Art School. Beelzebub could probably get whatever he wanted. So he wasn't 'bub.

I digress.

I like Das Boot for what it is- a well crafted film. The only issue I have is that I find it very hard to believe that a hardened, experienced crew under an expert Kaleun would be shrieking, yelling and rolling about the deck of a sub while it was under attack. Most accounts I have read describe a very different scene.

[Dowly]

The only issue I have is that I find it very hard to believe that a hardened, experienced crew under an expert Kaleun would be shrieking, yelling and rolling about the deck of a sub while it was under attack. Most accounts I have read describe a very different scene.

From what I gathered from the BBC show I mentioned earlier, the cameraman said that the goal was to make the audience think it was the crew's first patrol. Not for all of them, but many.

A quote out of my memory of what he said

"The crew was all young men, in their 20´s. Young men who had never seen the war and now they were sent to war in a metal tube."

I never really though about it before, but after the show, it's quite obvious. Alot of the crew are nervous pretty much from the point they leave the harbour to the point they return. Take the test dive scene for one, I'd think an experienced crew would've had no problem with that. They'd know what their boat was capable of. :hmm:

[Sailor Steve]

Choice #1: An replica of 109 without the original sound it is known of

or

Choice #2: An CGI 109 with the original sound.

I think I go with the #2.
But they didn't have that option. The movie is still better than anything you could name today.

Here you have an comparisation of the real 109E and the "109E" shown in BoB:
I know full-well what a real one looks like - I've been a fan since long before you were born. How many real ones are available for film-work today? The same is true of the Heinkels, but at least besides the engines they are real He-111s, and they had enough of them to make a full formation.

The same is also true of Tora! Tora! Tora!. The planes are all converted AT-6s, and anyone who knows anything knows what a real A6M, D3A and B8N look like; but the conversions were done by Mitsubishi, and look as close as a replican made that way can.

Have you seen Dark Blue World?

I'm gonna go watch Battle of Britain again. At least the aerial scene where they're bombing the airfield. Wonderful stuff.

[Sailor Steve]

:rotfl:

Yep. Some CGI (the empty shell flying from the ejectors) and a nice 3/4 model for the crash scene, but mostly dreck. And the story wasn't that great either.

But for some unfathomable reason I actually like it a little.

[Dowly]

Dont worry, Steve. I liked Dark Blue World abit too. ;)

[Jimbuna]

Dont worry, Steve. I liked Dark Blue World abit too. ;)

Aye...all the nudity bits :lol:

[Sailor Steve]

The only issue I have is that I find it very hard to believe that a hardened, experienced crew under an expert Kaleun would be shrieking, yelling and rolling about the deck of a sub while it was under attack. Most accounts I have read describe a very different scene.

From what I gathered from the BBC show I mentioned earlier, the cameraman said that the goal was to make the audience think it was the crew's first patrol. Not for all of them, but many.

A quote out of my memory of what he said

"The crew was all young men, in their 20´s. Young men who had never seen the war and now they were sent to war in a metal tube."

I never really though about it before, but after the show, it's quite obvious. Alot of the crew are nervous pretty much from the point they leave the harbour to the point they return. Take the test dive scene for one, I'd think an experienced crew would've had no problem with that. They'd know what their boat was capable of. :hmm:
And the 'Old Man' tells the correspondent right at the beginning that most of them are 'babies', lacking experience.:sunny:

[Sniper_Fox]

Ya ya, excuses! ;)
Lol... if you need proof, you'll notice that I edited my post to include the reference to you :P . Anyway, my job is to ensure some people still post on the forums and not spend their lives glued to Arma ;) .

Btw, this youtube movie (fairly old but brilliantly done) brings back some good old memories of Das Boot. And all of this was done using Silent Hunter 3. This one features the surface attack on the convoy depicted in the movie.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=wwqvjyn22Ys

This makes me wish that your crew grew beards... instead of starting off with massive full beards.

[Red Heat]

The film "Das Boot" still the best of the best of is kind... :rock:

[asanovic7]

Proud to announce I finally grabbed the movie..
After a long search(over a year) in shops.. Trying to buy it.. My search ended with one friend burned it for me.. :rotfl:

Didn't know there are two versions of the movie?
Short-long or directors cut-uncut?

I had the version where that naughty nazi lieutenant goes to search for medical officer , sees a bunch of arses and then in shock says "spirit is very low here" or something like that.
I now have a version where he has "hair problems" (don't know the word :rotfl:) and just looks for doctor and sees arses in shock.

I like this one better, some angle-course-aiming-etc. stuff (:arrgh!:) are cool,but still though would like to not have a version that has cut out scenes of any kind..
I would like to have a "full version".. :doh:
Is there such a version? Do I have to look for original dvd or is this that?

By the way, I played sh3 all this time, forgot some das boot scenes, now when I watched it, godamn, I will always play sh3. :rotfl:And watch das boot..
:rock:

[Jimbuna]

The uncut vrsion:

http://www.amazon.com/Das-Boot-Original-Uncut-Version/dp/B0001XAOLQ/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1229548011&sr=8-1

[von hally]

A lot of good points here methinks.

at the end of the day, people reacted and will react to das boot as their understanding lets them.

the atrocities of that conflict are well documented, but the tarring of all with the same brush is not on.

yes the u-boat fleet had party supporters, like many other military sectors, and lets not forget Donitz did succeed mr adolf toward the end, but there have been many documented cases of propaganda and political officers being widely resisted in this fleet, along with the carrying of party cards.

we all probably know of the story of the kaleun that brought his boat to pier and shouted "are the nazi's still in charge?"...when the answer was "yes"...he put his boat into full reverse, as a gesture to his leaders.

only one commander was ever convicted of war crimes during the war, for very arguable reasons....the same reasons an american sub commander was promoted???

anyone who has only just a passing interest in this terrible time will be of the understanding that every german was an avid nazi...just the way things are really.

its like calling every soldier in iraq or afghanistan an avid blairite/bush supporter.....life's more complex unfortunately.

at the end of the day, it was a mutch different time to now, fighting for your country was something everyman thought worthy, nowadays there's not enough respect for our guys and girls all over the world...just doing their job


just my two cents worth:rock:

[tomoose]

...to revisit this thread after Valkyrie comes out at christmas and read the opinions. Hopefully, it's not a Bruckheimer film (the guy responsible for that awful Pearl Harbor film a couple of years back).

[A Very Super Market]

Honestly, Valkyrie looks so overly hollywooded (a word???) that I thought it was fake!

[gmuno]

Leave us Germans our history, we usually make better movies out of it. ;)
It took one view of the Valkyrie-trailer for me to decide, that i will not spend my money for this movie.