mutiple targets - sonar ??

[I'm goin' down]

My imagination is running wild and I cannot sleep. Here is why...

One target on sonar - attack using sonar only is feasible.
Two target on sonar - attack using sonar is feasbile if the targets have different hydrophone contacts. say one where the first contact is 270 degrees and the other at 300 degrees..
Mutiple targets - What do you do when you have multiple targets and they are so close together that the hydrophone contacts are so close together that you cannot tell one from the other?

For now, I will stick to solo targets...until I am educated.

Now, back to the game. I am below the layer, hiding from a destroyer....

[Rockin Robbins]

Wth the game as presently modeled, if you can't follow a single contact of your choice, you're pretty much blown out of the water as far as sonar only methods are concerned. It is the same result as if the periscope randomly pointed to a target not of your choosing and you couldn't aim it where you wanted.

[Soundman]

That is pretty much the way it works in real life. I imagine that these days there is high tech software on the modern boats that can separate these sort of contacts, but I would venture to say that until recently, (the advent of computers) when you listened to more than one contact on the same bearing, that's what you got, a combination of two sounds. That's why/how modern subhunter/killers such as a "Los Angeles Class" sub tried to ease in behind the Russian subs, they could not detect the noise from directly behind them, due to their own prop noise. Ever watch Red October? No different than trying to look three cars in front of you while going down the road with an SUV in front of you.

[I'm goin' down]

:-? I watched the Dick O'kane Sonar Only (By God) video tutorial. Good tutorial. However, I had a big problem, which maybe someone can identify and resolve. Here is a summary of the failed attack.

1 . I set the periscope to zero degrees. (Should I have set it to 20 degrees starboard?)
2. I tracked the target by sonar and did not peek with the telescope or camera until after I fired torpedos.
3. I calibrated target speed at 15 knots using a 3 minute time interval between sonar pings (corrected to address Manchausen's posted question below). The PK was activated.
4. I set up at 90 degrees and pulled the range marker all the way to the right.
5. The target was approaching from my starboard side (i..e right) and its port (i.e. left). I set the AOB at 105 degrees because it was closing the distance from my right to to my left. The gyro angle looked way off (too far to the left), so I I tired an AOB of 75 degrees which was no good either.
5. I returned to 105 d3egrees, prayed to Dick O'Kane, and fired four shots that went way wide to the left (corrected a mistake in description because I do not know my left from my right), following the afoeredescribed gyro angle.
6, The PK had been following the target, said it was close, so I checked it out on the attack periscope. It was right where it was supposed to be, so my sonar tracking was masterful, if I don't mind bragging.

Where did I screw up? When a ship is approaching from my starboard, am I supposed to set the AOB for 105 degrees in classic O'Kane style? Or should my periscope been set at 20 degrees rather than 0 degrees? I made a fundamental error in my attack scenario, but I do not know where it could be. I thought the problem would be tracking the target at the correct bearings and distances, but instead some other part of the firing solution was awry.

[Munchausen]

2. I tracked the target by sonar and did not peek with the telescope or camera until after I fired torpedos.
3. I calibrated target speed at 15 knots using a 3 minute time interval. The PK was activated.

:hmm: If you didn't peek, how did you determine the target's speed?

[Rockin Robbins]

2. I tracked the target by sonar and did not peek with the telescope or camera until after I fired torpedos.
3. I calibrated target speed at 15 knots using a 3 minute time interval. The PK was activated.
:hmm: If you didn't peek, how did you determine the target's speed? Heh, heh, heh! I always wanted to do this because Luke does it all the time to great effect. I hate making you the victim, but the opportunity got the best of me......
http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/RockinRobbins13/smileys/rtfmninja.gif http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/RockinRobbins13/smileys/muttley.gifThe Dick O'Kane Sonar Only (by God!!!) Video (http://files.filefront.com/Dick+OKane+Sonar+Only00197z/;10324567;/fileinfo.html) Well, technically you can't read it, it's a video......:oops:

To make a long story short you ping him twice, three minutes apart. Each ping gives you a range and bearing, which you chart as a position on your nav map. You do the normal thing: measure the number of hundred yards and that's your speed in knots. A ray from the origin point, through the second position point extended past your course is the target's track. Assuming he doesn't change course, you should never have to ping him again, because passive sonar gives you a bearing. Where the bearing line crosses the track is his position. Tricky, huh?

Warning: there is some uncertainty in sonar ranges. You'll note in the tutorial video that I pinged him six or seven times to get a good average track line that I could believe in. Your track line will always be a little bit inaccurate with sonar only. It should not cause you to miss, however.

[I'm goin' down]

I came accross Manchausen's sister boat. It tried to hurt me. It name is Manchausen by Proxy. Heh. Ha. Ha. Ha.:rotfl:

So, RR, Sir, where did I screw up?

Note, I fixed the mistakes in my posted question. I missed the shots wide to the left and not wide the right.

[cleverusername]

I'm assuming you mean attacking a convoy. Attacking multiple targets with sonar isn't any different than attacking multiple targets visually. You'll already have course and speed from the first target.

After you shoot at the first target, ping the second target. Input bearing and range.

Adjust AOB to compensate for change in target bearing.

Fire!

[Rockin Robbins]

The problem is if you can't resolve the contacts. You end up with one mess of a single contact 10º wide, for example. You can ping all you want, but you don't know if successive pings bounced off the same target. So you can't even begin to plot a course with any confidence. At that point I take a pass on the attack, at least until I can separate out a single contact from the mess.

Of course, when you're playing the game for real, not practice, sonar only is not your preferred method of attack. If you can attack visually, you'll always be better served getting some visual information.

In the above situation, for instance, I'd pop up the scope and get the bearing of the lead target in the mess. Then I'd ping it to get a beginning position. I'd watch 'em on sonar for three minutes, pop up the scope again long enough to get a second bearing and ping that. Now I have two positions I can count on and a little experience figuring out where in that single 10º contact my victim is. I can now continue with the sonar attack. I'd fire a real good spread, probably four with a spread of 200%, because your sonar position is going to be real imprecise. You're going to waste half of your shots at least--guaranteed. But the attack is possible with some early visual info from a couple of 15 second peeks.

I'm goin' down, I just realized you're referencing the other thread. I'll have to go read it again. I'll get back to it.

[Munchausen]

IMNSHO, sonar-only attacks in the game are about as reliable as they were in real life ... in large part because slight errors in calculated range can result in one or two knots error in target speed. So, when playing a career, I assume HHQ has nixed them as SOP. I figure that's where Igd went wrong.

:roll: P.S. Wrong Munchausen.

[I'm goin' down]

Here is my question, as I wanted to make sure the issue was properly tabled for discussion.

:-? I watched the Dick O'kane Sonar Only (By God) video tutorial. Good tutorial. However, I had a big problem, which maybe someone can identify and resolve. Here is a summary of the failed attack.

1 . I set the periscope to zero degrees. (Should I have set it to 20 degrees starboard?)
2. I tracked the target by sonar and did not peek with the telescope or camera until after I fired torpedos.
3. I calibrated target speed at 15 knots using a 3 minute time interval between sonar pings (corrected to address Manchausen's posted question below). The PK was activated.
4. I set up at 90 degrees and pulled the range marker all the way to the right.
5. The target was approaching from my starboard side (i..e right) and its port (i.e. left). I set the AOB at 105 degrees because it was closing the distance from my right to to my left. The gyro angle looked way off (too far to the left), so I I tired an AOB of 75 degrees which was no good either.
5. I returned to 105 deegrees, prayed to Dick O'Kane, and fired four shots that went way wide to the left (corrected a mistake in description because I do not know my left from my right), following the afoeredescribed gyro angle.
6, The PK had been following the target, said it was close, so I checked it out on the attack periscope. It was right where it was supposed to be, so my sonar tracking was masterful, if I don't mind bragging.

Where did I screw up? When a ship is approaching from my starboard, am I supposed to set the AOB for 105 degrees in classic O'Kane style? Or should my periscope been set at 20 degrees rather than 0 degrees? I made a fundamental error in my attack scenario, but I do not know where it could be. I thought the problem would be tracking the target at the correct bearings and distances, but instead some other part of the firing solution was awry.

Note, I tried another attack today and missed again. The target was moving right to left again. I had to spin my boat around because the target was bearing down on my position, and I fired at less than 20 degrees to my starboard. I missed. But it appeared that my gyro angle was off, this time to the right. I set the periscope and 20 degrees at the last minute because of my boat was too close to the target, I reinput the AOB and range. The target was about 800 yards off, so the sonar man was doing his job as I plotted its course. Where did I go wrong, or as Max says in The Producers, "Where did I go right?":hmm:

[Munchausen]

If you keep missing, the best thing to do is make it as simple as possible next time around. The fewer the tweaks, the fewer the number of things that can go wrong. Insure you have all of the following properly set:

Torpedo speed.
Target speed.
AOB set to 90 degrees (forget using a lead angle for now).
Torpedo doors open.

Then:

Make sure your sub is perpendicular to the target's track (course line).
Sub should also be as close to "dead in the water" as possible.
PK off!*
Set periscope crosshairs to zero bearing.
Send range and bearing to the TDC.

Check the torpedo's gyro angle on your TDC ... for a left-to-right pass across your bow, it should look something like this:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v97/pjcham/SH4/TDC_1.jpg

Notice that the arrow protruding from the bottom set of wheels is canted to the right ... indicating a lead (gyro) angle for the torpedo. If the target was moving faster, the lead would be even greater. The reason it's canted is because you haven't adjusted your set-up to lead the target ... instead, you'll let the TDC compute lead via the gyro.

If I was planning to shoot without peeking, I'd use the sonar trace on the map as a guideline. Assuming you know exactly where your bow is pointing (and all the above parameters are set), shooting when the trace crosses your bow line should result in an MOT (hit in the "middle of target").

If you still miss, set it all up again (RR has created a couple of really good practice set-ups you can download) and take a screen shot. Then clip out the TDC and paste it here, same as the one above. That should make it easier to analyze what it is you're doing wrong.

* With PK on, the TDC will continually adjust your firing solution according to whatever target speed is set ... thereby increasing gyro angle while you wait.

[I'm goin' down]

Manchausen, that was an excellent explanation. I am glad you are on our side. I have forwarded your post to the Naval College in Monterey, CA with a recommendation that they offer you a full porfessorship, so pack your bags Manchausen. toss the dog in the car, and tie the wife to the roofd, because you are being reassigned and promoted soon.

Where, oh where, do I find the RR practice attacks you mentioned? I have watched his video tutorial several times, but did not see any practice tutorial other than that.

[RR, when you read this, I sent you a message via Skype. My web cam was not working, and it is now fixed. I have no idea why it stopped working, but I changed the multitude of connections from devices on the back side, reinstalled the web cam software, and viola, windows spotted a new device--the web cam! It is now up, running, and funtional. I groomed my three poodles, who work 8 hours shifts rotating the watch, for our ocean contact and they haven't spotted you yet.]

[Munchausen]

I have forwarded your post to the Naval College in Monterey, CA with a recommendation that they offer you a full porfessorship, so pack your bags Manchausen.

:up: Great SCUBA diving just south of downtown ... the kelp forests are breathtaking (or maybe it was just the water ... cold enough to take anyone's breath away).

[I'm goin' down]

go diving in Monterey Bay and you and all of the little fishes are on the menu as the main course for a fish one of whose nick names is MANEATER (it eats women too).

[tale]

Attacking ONE target with the "sonar only technique" is an advance topic, only seasoned skippers can do it with guarantee of success

Attacking TWO targets with the "sonar only technique" is a VERY advance topic and I believe that not many among us can claim to have done it right. By the way I have plans on making a video tutorial about this

Attacking more than two targets with the sonar only technique must be close to impossible and I would gladly pay for the autograph of whomever can probe to have done it in 100% realism.:o

And of course, forget about using the sonar if there's but a single escort around or you will be getting some of those exploding barrels coming from above.:down:

[Rockin Robbins]

Munchausen, good show and a great post. I was off doing stupid Linux tricks for a day or so there. Skype for Linux is something I haven't checked out yet. I'll have to. I think it exists. But here I am back in my Windows partition again.

Munchausen pretty much hit it on the head. There isn't enough information in your misses post to determine just what went wrong there. Just like him, I have to do some educated guessing and I think we end up in the same camp.

It looks to me like the most likely possibility is that you forgot to tell the torpedoes where to go. The only way to do that is to sight the scope up the shoot bearing and press the send range/bearing button on the TDC. I just raise the scope several inches so I can see light and the bearing marks, sight the scope and press the button.

So that's two votes for not sending the shoot bearing. Munchausen had a great idea in taking screenies of the TDC outputs just before you shoot. It helps if you have a tool like MW Snap 3, which automatically saves the shots and consecutively numbers them like most real cameras do. That way taking the screenies doesn't interfere with your game too much.

:rotfl:over in Ubuntu-land it seems some have problems with Skype ethics! You know that Linux-world is entirely socialist in nature and they don't take kindly to any proprietary behavior by anyone. It's an interesting and entertaining read (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SkypeEthics) if you're an old capitalist like me. The interesting thing is that Ubuntu is sponsored by a (gasp) commercial enterprise named Canonical. I thought dogs didn't deficate in their own beds...:lol: Anyway I'll have a Skype installation polluting their clean, moral environment this evening.

[Munchausen]

You know that Linux-world is entirely socialist in nature and they don't take kindly to any proprietary behavior by anyone.

If I remember correctly, the freeware mentality of Linux was in response to Bill Gates' charging an arm and leg for Windows ... and then coming out with new versions (at full price) every time you turned around. "Built-in obsolescence" (or "planned obsolescence") is what they call it. A lot like what happened to the U.S. auto industry in the early 70s.

[I'm goin' down]

Captain to radio operator: Advise command that we have entered the Sea of Grass.


http://tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:5plxf6FnuaOOIM:http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/80/Close-up_of_mole.jpg (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/80/Close-up_of_mole.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.lanarkswt.org.uk/Bulletins/June2008Bulletin.doc&usg=__mvWnkuYQnpJ0ArnIg8JqYcv1N8w=&h=2136&w=2848&sz=1623&hl=en&start=41&um=1&tbnid=5plxf6FnuaOOIM:&tbnh=113&tbnw=150&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmoles%26start%3D40%26ndsp%3D20%26um%3 D1%26hl%3Den%26rls%3Dcom.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox%26rlz%3D1I7ADBF%26sa%3DN)

[I'm goin' down]

I did a modified sonar attack. Here is the short version.

1. Track target's (probably a convoy) course and speed on sonar.
2. Approach on the surface at a high rate of speed to ensure intercept.
3. Do not use binoculars or pericscopes to locate target.
4. At 2,500 yds. submerge to a depth of 10 ft.
5. On the way to depth, radar map shows the location of convoy ships
6. Adjust course of convoy on map and plot intercept at 90 degrees (course per sonar was slightly off).
10. At depth, set scope at 340 degrees, as the target is approaching from port. Set torpedoes to run shallow, and set the AOB and range per Dick O'kane method. Absolute must: TURN THE DAMN PK OFF (this was my problem!)
11. Blue sonar line has been tracking a ship in the convoy per the attack map, as was confirmed by radar tracking while submerging. Follow the blue line sonar line until target crosses 340 degrees. Note: Sonarman is NOT tracking target because the destroyer is the closest contact . Alert: Destroyer is closing at a high rate of speed.
12. Fire four torpedoes at five second intervals when target passes 340 degrees. Cross your fingers and pray.
13. Periscope depth. Raise attack periscope and watch the action. Do not forget about the destroyer escort that is pinging boat(my fatal error.)
14. Two torpedoes hit the stern of the tracked target. Two missed. Target on fire.:p
15. Two missed torpedoes find a home in the starrboard side of the freighter, to the port and stern of the tracked target. So much for safety in numbers. Second ship on fire.:p
16. We are rammed by a destroyer who proceeds to depth charge our boat. I'm goin' down (no pun intended).:x
17. Put this note in a bottle and shove it in a torpedoe tube before the bulkhead gives way.
18. Hello Mr. (Davey) Jones. Allow me to introduce myself....

Au Revoir

P.S. THANKS FOR ALL OF YOUR GREAT ADVICE!!!

[Munchausen]

:rotfl: Gotta love it. Some players insist that, in the game, escorts ignore pinging. I prefer to play it safe anyway.

[Rockin Robbins]

Nice attack! Is sonar only the most fun you can have with Silent Hunter 4 or what? Great job!

[magic452]

Good post I'm goin' down. I've been following your post since you first started
and you have come a very long way in a short time CONGRATS.
Shows what can be done with a little ( or a lot) of study and practice. :know::rock:
Your post have helped me a lot. I had much the same questions.
Thanks to all the experienced members who answer all these questions
they are helping more subsimers than they may think.

We all forget about things some times when enjoying a good shot or getting a good set up.

I just started to use limited batts and had to change how I patrolled, more surface running and less time submerged. Ran down a large old split freighter was setting up for a stern shot. All the sudden I'm tacking damage. Stupid me I was still sitting
on the surface @ 0 knots, forgot to go to PD. :damn::damn: Did get damage repaired and eventually got the SOB.

[I'm goin' down]

Here is an exchange of e-mails between me and my son, Taylor, who is a freshman at New York University, 3000 miles away. I deleted the personal stuff, most of it anyway. The last email is dedicated to Rockin Robbins and WernerSobe's tutorials on the use of sonar in an attack, and to Manchausen, whose reminder to turn off the PK got me straight. If my explanaition is faulty or incomplete, feel free to weigh in and don't be bashful.

From I'm goin' down to Taylor:

SH4 update. I sunk a freighter using sonar to attack. No periscope or visual sighting from the deck. I was submerged the entire time. I started tracking at 20,000 yds., and plotted its course and calculated its speed. I did not view the target until after I had fired the torpedoes. I fired four torpedoes when the sonar man called out that it was 20 degrees to starboard, which, with the gyro angle and distance, should have resulted in torpedo impact at 5 degrees starboard. Four shots. Four hits. I intended the range to be 1,000 to 1,200 yds., but the target changed course at 26 degrees and was moving away rather than closing distance, and it went down about 1,750 yds. from my boat, which is probably close to where it was hit. This is a tough game, but I am working my way through it. I never thought I would get this far. I have downloaded a mod that inserts Great White Sharks into the game, although I have not seen any yet. I am looking for a mermaid and siren mod!

I have figured out manual targeting too, but I still miss some shots using it. The method I use allows you to attack at an angle other than 90 degrees (the 90 degree attack method is known as the Dick O'Kane attack method).

We will have to do an online matchup working as a team when I get more skilled.

Just call me Admiral Miller!

.....

Dad


Reply to I'm goin' down from Taylor:

You sir, need to get a job.


But on another note congratulations. Can you explain how you calculate speed and time please? We can Skype tomorrow or Friday. Also by how great is the margin of error in a 500 degree difference in estimated range to target?

Taylor


From I'm goin down to Taylor:

Taylor,

Range and bearing on sonar are time consuming but easy if you follow all of the steps. Here we go. You have set the game for manual targeting. You should be able to follow this without much problem.

1. When the sonar man shouts out you a sonar contact as follows: "Merchant bearing 345 degrees, closing," you have enough information to find the target in relation to your boat. First, go to to sonar screen and move the sonar dial to 345 degrees and send the range to the TDC (torpedo data computer). The range will be displayed on the message screen. Let's assume it says, "Range 10,000 yds."

2. Open the the Navigation Map screen (Not the Attack Map screen.) This is main map screen with the navigation map of the world.

3. On the Navigation Map screen, you will observe a blue radar line running from your boat. The blue line is a visual display of the radar contact. It is a visual display of the radar man's reading of the bearing to the target. Using your map tools, draw a circle from your boat with a radius of 10,000 yards. Mark the point on the circumference of the circle where the blue radar line intersects the circumference with your pencil tool, leaving an "X" in the marked position. That is the position of the target (i.e. 10,000 yds. from the present location of your boat at a bearing of 345 degrees. Take note, the position of your boat and the target will change).

4. Repeat the process described in nos. 1 - 3 several times, and you will eventually have a several "X" marks on the navigation map, as the target shifts positions. Connecting these "X" marks gives you the "probable" course of the target. The more readings, the more accurate your estimation of the target's distance from your boat and "probable" course. Sometimes the sonar man's readings of range or bearing are slightly inaccurate, or the target changes course. If the "X" marks do not line up in a straight line, draw a line between the various "X" marks to approximate its course. Extend the course line to the point where you intend to intercept the target.

5. Crucial tip: Remember, unless your boat is dead in the water, not only is the target moving, but your boat is moving too. Each time you draw a circle from your boat to the target when calculating the target's distance and bearing, the location of the center of the circle changes to match your boat's new location. For example, if your boat travels 500 yards in the direction of the target between the sonar man's readings of the target's bearing and the display of the target's distances, the center of the circle used to measure your boat's range to the target must be moved as well. [The easiest thing to do here is simply drag the previous circle that you made on the Navigation Map map to the new location of your boat and resize the circle according to the sonar man's new distance to the target.]

6. Now you have the target's "probable" course. To get an estimate of its speed, have the sonar man provide you with the target's bearing at a 3 minute interval. Keep track of the time on the game's stop watch. Mark the target's bearing and range on the Navigation Map at the beginning and end of the 3 minute interval. Measure the distance between the two marks. For example if the distance is 800 yds., it translates to a target speed of 8 kts. per hour , which is our hypothetical speed estimation for purposes of this example. If it 1,000 yds, it translates to 10 kts per hour. There are other ways to calculate speed but this method is commonly used. Now you know the target's probable course and and have estimated its speed. Since you know the target's course and speed, and have drawn its projected course on the Naviagation Map, steer your boat to close the distance for your attack.

7. Remember, you are submerged and have not visually sighted the target. Turn the Position Keeper off, as you will set the gyro angle for the torpedoes manually. Set torpedoes for a depth of 10 feet (you do not know how deep the keel is on the intended target because you cannot see it, so set the torpedoes to run at a shallow depth in case the ship is a small merchant) and set them to run at high speed with contact influence. Open the torpedo doors. Line up for a broadside shot at the target at 800 - 1,000 yards using your protractor and other tools. I can show you how to do this.

8. Instruct the the sonar man to keep announcing and updating the target's position. Let's assume the target is approaching from your port (left side), so it is traveling left to right. Let's assume your are set up for a broadside. The sonar man says the target is at "300 degrees, closing." (Note, initially the sonar man sighted the target at 345 degrees. It has moved and our boat has too. Also, our boat has moved into attack position with the target on the port side.) We already know its projecteed course and have estimated its speed, and have set up for a projected 800 - 1,000 yd. broadside salvo. Raise the periscope (remember your boat is still underwater even with the periscope raised. You can select either periscope at this point, but since you are closing for an attack, I recommend using the Attack Periscope, as you will use it if you surface after you fire the torpedo salvo.). Set the periscope to 340 degrees, click the space bar to lock the periscope, and click the range on the TDC. This will set the gyro angle on the torpedo to intersect the target when you fire at 340 degrees. The torpedoes should impact the target at approximately 355 degrees, as you can observe the canted gyro angle and projected impact point on the Attack Map screen. (It is not recommended that torpedoes impact be at 0 degrees, because Rockin Robbins advised that it could result in the torpedoes not exploding (i.e. at 100 percent realism the torpedoes may be duds.) Do not move the periscope! Make sure the Position Keeper is turned off.

9. Set the AOB for a broadside shot with a 70 degree angle of bow (90 degrees - 20 degrees [remember, you are firing 20 degrees before the target passes our 0 degree bearing]), with the target's bow on the AOB dial pointing from to the right (i.e. matching the direction of the target). Click the send button twice. Set the speed on the TDC dial to 8 kts (see above where I assumed the target's speed was measured at 800 yds. over 3 minutes.) Click the send button twice. Set the range on the TDC dial to maximum by pulling the range lever on the TDC dial all the way to the right. Clikck the send button twice. (See Rockin Robbin's video tutorial entitled Dick O'Kane Technique & Fast - 90 Tutorial on manual targeting using the Dick O'Kane technique for an explanation of why you do these tasks.)

10. The target is closing. Initially, the radar man identified the target at 345 degrees. But as noted above that bearing has changed in relation to your boat, since you have moved in for the attack at a 90 degree angle to the target using the Dick O'Kane technique. The target is now at a new bearing of 320 degrees from your position (i.e it is still on your port (left) side.) The sonar man won't shut up, and exclaims, "Target at 320 degrees, closing." The sonar man will continue to announce the target's position as it continues its course (i.e. "321 degrees, closing," "322 degrees closing", etc.) When your boat is 1,000 yds. from the target's estimated course, stop the engines or reduce speed to 1 kt. Check the Navigation Map and Attack Map to see if the target is visible and on course. You may not be able to see the target since your boat is submerged , but if you can, it assists in confirming you are proceeding to a good firing solution. A 1,000 yd. meter bearing tool mod is useful for this purpose. We still have plenty of time before you order the firing of torpedoes, as it will take a while for the target to move from 320 degrees to 340 degrees at 8 kts per hours. Order a pizza, feed the dogs some Nibbles, call and harass your old man, and use your Three Stooges talking bottle opener ("I must be in Tunis, because I want a Tunis fish sandwich.") to open a bottle of Japanese beer. When the sonar man says, "Target 340 degrees," begin firing torpedoes. Fire them at 5 second intervals to ensure a good spread. This helps ensure you hit the target if your range and course calculations prove slightly inaccurate. The torpedoes should hit the target at the estimated range of 800 - 1200 yds if the attack has been implemented successfully.

11. Let's see how you fared. Proceed to periscope depth. Raise the periscope. Use the Attack Periscope, so you diminish the possibility of being spotted. You should observe your target at around 345 degrees at a range between roughly 600 to 1500 yds. Raise the beer to you lips, enjoy a long sip, burp, and watch and listento to the action to unfold. I sunk a freighter that switched course shortly before I fired a salvo of four torpedoes which hit it at 1,750 yards as it was pulling away. Four torpedoes fired. Four torpedoes made impact. I tossed confetti! I received a medal from Rockin Robbins!! After you sink you first ship using sonar only, mix and enjoy a Mai Tai, as that is part of Rockin Robbin's video tutorial, so it obviously an indispensible part of the sonar only attack techique. On second thought, I would send you the recipe but you are too young to drink legally in New York, and the Navy wants you sober during your first sonar attack. I will drink one for you, plus another that I mixed for myself.

12. What is maximum depth for firing a torpedo? I have read that it is 90 feet, but some have claimed much greater depth, like 190 feet.

This sonar attack method is explained in the entitled, Dick O'Kane Sonar Only (by God), compliments of the gifted Rockin Robbins. You can download it at subsim SH4 radio room. It is a good video, and it plus my memo should get you set up.

I can help you with manual targeting as well. You should download a mod called SCAF (Ship Centered Attack Fix). This mod changes the points on the ship used to measure a target's aspect ratio which is used for setting the range to the target on the Attack Map. Using the stock program's ship measurement points (i.e. the top of the targets' masts) is too difficult because it is hard to get an accurate fix on the tip of a mast when the target is at a distance. The top of the mast is very difficult to see as it bobs up and down in the water. Also, the SCAF mod has a companion mod that increases the magnification of the periscope, so manual targeting is easier than before because you are fixing the range on the top of the target's smoke stacks or conning tower in most cases. Hitman has a good, illustrated tutorial that can be downloaded discussing aspect ratio and manual targeting, but he does not use SCAF, so it is a somewhat time consuming process and requires measurements and some compulsory, elementary mathematical calculations. Understanding his tutorial and using it is good preparation for understanding the shortcomings of using the top of a ship's mast for manual targeting, a problem that the genius who developed SCAF greatly reduces and simplifies.


The are several other good mods. Natural sinking mechanics is a mod that provides realistic ship sinking. Environmental 5 makes the ocean realistic.

Let's hunt some task forces when your finals are over!

Love Dad, aka I'm goin' down

[I'm goin' down]

Thanks Majic. My learning curve has been slow, but steady. I stumble along and then have an epiphany, and make a huge leap in understanding. More often than not, my dogs go on alert and start howling when they hear me exclaim, "God damn, it!" after I have either been sunk by a destroyer or missed shots in a straghtforward Dick O'Kane attack. But the game is fascinating, and I get a kick out of learning the new techniques. There are some very gifted skippers here, and those with computer savvy probably do not realize that they are a special breed with unique gifts who have made this game a pleasure and joy for people such as myself to enjoy. Have a nice Christmas.:up:

p.s. See my previous post for an interesting dialogue between me and my son.

[magic452]

After reading your dialogue I think I'll give sonar only a try.
I do very good with manual targeting so something different will be a change.
Providing I remember to go to PD first.
I have had targets change course just as I was ready to fire and it takes some fancy
re-targeting to get a good firing solution. Sonar only may help this.

Itoo still make mistakes or miss simple shots, no dogs here but I've got a 95 year
old Mom who, when she hears all the commotion or language a 95 year old Mom is not supposed to hear, yells out " what the heck is going on in there." :rotfl:

Merry Christmas to you and yours and good hunting.
Magic452

[I'm goin' down]

Majic, I made some corrections to my reply to Taylor. They are not so much substantive as they provide needed clarifications. If you download a copy of the reply to Taylor make sure it is downloaded after you read this post.

[Munchausen]

Wish I could convince my son to play.

Anyway ... be advised that most of this planning goes out the window in multiplayer. As soon as the first player to fire gets a hit, the rest of the convoy goes nuts ... changing course (and, for the escorts, speed) at random intervals. If playing MP in manual mode, I suggest each of you pick a fat target and coordinate firing times to achieve simultaneous hits.

And, speaking of random, it can't be done in MP anymore ... not with any certainty. You should either select one of the canned setups or write one of your own. That said, if you do get "random encounters" working on a regular basis, please PM me with the specifics.

A couple other points:

Make sure you aren't moving at more than 3 knots when submerged. One of the big reasons a target will change course is because you've alerted him by being too noisy.
For a sonar attack, it's not necessary to freeze the periscope into position after you've sent range and bearing data to the TDC. The reason you leave it at the calculated bearing on a visual attack is that the crosshairs are your reference point for firing torps. In a sonar attack, your reference is the sonar man as he calls out the bearings.

One more ... your torpedo doors automatically close at 100 feet. So you won't be able to fire a torpedo at any depth greater than about 99.

:up: Good hunting and Merry Christmas.