Pirate 'mother ship' left in flames

[MothBalls]

It's about time. While everyone debates who should do what, an Indian warship decided to take em out.

The skirmish took place Tuesday evening about 326 miles (525 kilometers) southwest of Oman's Salalah port when the frigate INS Tabar spotted a suspected pirate ship with two speedboats in tow, India's Defense Ministry reported.

"Pirates were seen roaming on the upper deck of this vessel with guns and rocket-propelled grenade launchers. The vessel continued its threatening calls and subsequently fired upon INS Tabar," the ministry said.

The Indian frigate returned fire, setting the pirate ship ablaze and setting off explosions on board, the statement said. Two speedboats in tow behind the ship fled; one was found abandoned after a pursuit by the Tabar.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/africa/11/19/somalia.pirates/index.html?iref=mpstoryview



Way to go. I still think all navies ROE on these guys should be kill on site. Forget the courts, send them into the abyss and they'll stop coming back.

[AVGWarhawk]

Just read this myself and good for them for sinking the 'mother ship'. If it were me, I would be eyeing the tanker with my cannons also. Let it burn and the 'pirates' go with it. Just setting precidence for the next one they take. Just sink'em. Maybe this is way I'm not in charge :hmm:

[SteamWake]

In its clash with the pirate vessel, the Tabar's crew hailed the ship and demanded it stop for inspection, and the pirates threatened to destroy the Indian ship, the ministry reported.

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh312/UlteriorModem/art_tanbar_afp_gi.jpg

Hrm... image not working...

Anyhow what are they freakin nuts? They must have thought they would not return fire.

[AVGWarhawk]

Image is working. Perhaps the pirates got a bit ahead of themselves as it was dark and really did not see the size of this Indian warship:rotfl: I'm telling ya man, take a ship, we sink it! Don't care who is on it or what is on it. Boom, gone.

[DeepIron]

A friend and I were talking about the pirating yesterday. This is our conclusion:

The ocean is a very large place as bodies of water go and it would be hard to find pirate bodies in it.:rock:

[Schroeder]

Just read this myself and good for them for sinking the 'mother ship'. If it were me, I would be eyeing the tanker with my cannons also. Let it burn and the 'pirates' go with it. Just setting precidence for the next one they take. Just sink'em. Maybe this is way I'm not in charge :hmm:
This would just cause a catastrophic oil spill that would affect thousands of people (not to mention animals). I don't know if that's a great idea.:hmm:

@Topic

I somehow have trouble believing that some ill equipped pirates would take on a navy frigate.
But it sounds much better than: Frigate opened fire without warning and sent the bastards to hell.;)

[AVGWarhawk]

Just read this myself and good for them for sinking the 'mother ship'. If it were me, I would be eyeing the tanker with my cannons also. Let it burn and the 'pirates' go with it. Just setting precidence for the next one they take. Just sink'em. Maybe this is way I'm not in charge :hmm:
This would just cause a catastrophic oil spill that would affect thousands of people (not to mention animals). I don't know if that's a great idea.:hmm:

@Topic

I somehow have trouble believing that some ill equipped pirates would take on a navy frigate.
But it sounds much better than: Frigate opened fire without warning and sent the bastards to hell.;)

I considered the oil spill in my thoughts first. Get ready for it. Get your oil recovery ships ready, have the booms out to surround the ship. Start taking target practice. :D Remember, safety first:up: Seriously, if we attack the ship, oil is spilled. If we try a commando raid, they will spill the oil themselves. We are damned if we do and damned if we don't. Blast it out of the water. Just a calling card for the next set of pirates doing the same thing.

[LobsterBoy]

Perhaps if the coast of Somalia is ruined by an ecological disaster the pirates won't be so popular anymore. :hmm:

[SteamWake]

Perhaps if the coast of Somalia is ruined by an ecological disaster the pirates won't be so popular anymore. :hmm:

Cmon you know better than that. The pirates would not recieve the blame the prosecuting partys would. Thats the way things work these days.

[Letum]

Perhaps if the coast of Somalia is ruined by an ecological disaster the pirates won't be so popular anymore.
Cmon you know better than that. The pirates would not recieve the blame the prosecuting partys would. Thats the way things work these days.

A good thing too.
We certainly shouldn't be riding roughshod over justice. Leave that to the pirates!

[DeepIron]

Perhaps if the coast of Somalia is ruined by an ecological disaster the pirates won't be so popular anymore. :hmm:Eh? One could argue that Somalia is already a disaster... That's one reason they have pirates...

[LobsterBoy]

I'm not really interested in blame. If a ransom is paid (and it would be the largest in history) the pirates buy better weapons and the cycle continues. I think that's a bigger mess than an oil spill.

[Raptor1]

Pfft, just change the ROE to 'Shoot on sight' then take a few kilometer deep area out of the Somali coastline and mine it like hell, wouldn't really effect small rubber boats, but good luck doing anything with your little prize if you still manage to get anything

Ugh, I hate stupid politics getting in the way of efficiency

[AVGWarhawk]

Pfft, just change the ROE to 'Shoot on sight' then take a few kilometer deep area out of the Somali coastline and mine it like hell, wouldn't really effect small rubber boats, but good luck doing anything with your little prize if you still manage to get anything

Ugh, I hate stupid politics getting in the way of efficiency

Here, here! Blow it up. Do it again, we blow it up. Sooner or later they run out of pirates. Also, start arming these ships. :know: Yo, ho, ho and .50 cal!

[fatty]

Just read this myself and good for them for sinking the 'mother ship'. If it were me, I would be eyeing the tanker with my cannons also. Let it burn and the 'pirates' go with it. Just setting precidence for the next one they take. Just sink'em. Maybe this is way I'm not in charge :hmm:
This would just cause a catastrophic oil spill that would affect thousands of people (not to mention animals). I don't know if that's a great idea.:hmm:


Yep. The environmental catastrophe would put a lot of Somali fishermen out of business and feed them right into the trade of piracy. I'm sure also that Vela Int'l would have something to say about sending their brand new $150 million ship to the bottom with the $100 million worth of oil. I bet maritime shipping insurance premiums would also balloon dramatically.

[Skybird]

I still think all navies ROE on these guys should be kill on site.
Exactly.

Plus going after their support on land.

[MothBalls]

Plus going after their support on land.

How do you know who they are? Just shoot everyone with a parrot on their shoulder and an eyepatch?

[AVGWarhawk]

Plus going after their support on land.
How do you know who they are? Just shoot everyone with a parrot on their shoulder and an eyepatch?

Yes! Then we move on to people who look like they just fell out of Pirates of the Carribean! No no no! There is probably black markets! Yes? Shut these down.

[DeepIron]

There is probably black markets! Yes? Shut these down.What?! And watch as Somalia's economy implodes further? I dare say, I wouldn't be surprised if some the booty is being distributed "up the chain" as well!

[AVGWarhawk]

Just read this myself and good for them for sinking the 'mother ship'. If it were me, I would be eyeing the tanker with my cannons also. Let it burn and the 'pirates' go with it. Just setting precidence for the next one they take. Just sink'em. Maybe this is way I'm not in charge :hmm:
This would just cause a catastrophic oil spill that would affect thousands of people (not to mention animals). I don't know if that's a great idea.:hmm:

Yep. The environmental catastrophe would put a lot of Somali fishermen out of business and feed them right into the trade of piracy. I'm sure also that Vela Int'l would have something to say about sending their brand new $150 million ship to the bottom with the $100 million worth of oil. I bet maritime shipping insurance premiums would also balloon dramatically.
What catastrophe? They should be deploying clean up ships and booms right now. Like I said, damned if we do damned if we don't. Ok, we blow up the ship. Flames, leaking oil. We are there for immediate response on clean up. If we do a commando raid, boom, the pirates blow it up instead. Flames, leaking oil. We are there to clean it up immediately. OK, we pay a ransom of $150 million...we still may not get the ship back in one piece. No guarantees in this situation. Furthermore, if we do get the ship back, we have done nothing but financed their next high seas adventure:doh:

[AVGWarhawk]

There is probably black markets! Yes? Shut these down.What?! And watch as Somalia's economy implodes further? I dare say, I wouldn't be surprised if some the booty is being distributed "up the chain" as well!

There is booty involved here:hmm:

[Skybird]

Plus going after their support on land.

How do you know who they are? Just shoot everyone with a parrot on their shoulder and an eyepatch?
Lets start with the new villas along the coast, belonging to warlords and milita leaders. Then the harbour towns and vollagers to which pirate boats retreat.

You know that there is almost a villa construction boom in Somalia currently, yes!? In Somalia!

[SteamWake]

There is probably black markets! Yes? Shut these down.What?! And watch as Somalia's economy implodes further? I dare say, I wouldn't be surprised if some the booty is being distributed "up the chain" as well!

There is booty involved here:hmm:

He said booty not bootay :|\\

[Skybird]

as Somalia's economy implodes further? !
Eh - what...? Imploding, Somali economy? that is liike surfing without a board.

Pirate ransoms this years are estimated to exceed Puntland's yearly income by 150%. they demand 200 million for the Sirius Star. If they gewt it, this years ransom will exceed Punbtlands income by 250%. :lol:

[AVGWarhawk]

There is probably black markets! Yes? Shut these down.What?! And watch as Somalia's economy implodes further? I dare say, I wouldn't be surprised if some the booty is being distributed "up the chain" as well!
There is booty involved here:hmm:
He said booty not bootay :|\\

Yes, there is a distinction:rotfl:

[fatty]

What catastrophe? They should be deploying clean up ships and booms right now. Like I said, damned if we do damned if we don't. Ok, we blow up the ship. Flames, leaking oil. We are there for immediate response on clean up. If we do a commando raid, boom, the pirates blow it up instead. Flames, leaking oil. We are there to clean it up immediately. OK, we pay a ransom of $150 million...we still may not get the ship back in one piece. No guarantees in this situation. Furthermore, if we do get the ship back, we have done nothing but financed their next high seas adventure:doh:

It cost $5 billion in 2008 dollars to clean up the mess from Exxon Valdez and she leaked only 40 million litres. Sirius Star is carrying 300 million litres of crude. Assuming there are even enough resources in the world to mobilize for mitigating that scale of disaster and you are willing to accept the costs, if you can get them close enough to the Star for an immediate response you might as well make a rescue attempt. I think the pirates would have a real struggle draining her tanks in the couple of minutes it would take for a SEAL team to secure the ship anyway.

[AVGWarhawk]

What catastrophe? They should be deploying clean up ships and booms right now. Like I said, damned if we do damned if we don't. Ok, we blow up the ship. Flames, leaking oil. We are there for immediate response on clean up. If we do a commando raid, boom, the pirates blow it up instead. Flames, leaking oil. We are there to clean it up immediately. OK, we pay a ransom of $150 million...we still may not get the ship back in one piece. No guarantees in this situation. Furthermore, if we do get the ship back, we have done nothing but financed their next high seas adventure:doh:
It cost $5 billion in 2008 dollars to clean up the mess from Exxon Valdez and she leaked only 40 million litres. Sirius Star is carrying 300 million litres of crude. Assuming there are even enough resources in the world to mobilize for mitigating that scale of disaster and you are willing to accept the costs, if you can get them close enough to the Star for an immediate response you might as well make a rescue attempt. I think the pirates would have a real struggle draining her tanks in the couple of minutes it would take for a SEAL team to secure the ship anyway.


Drain the tanks? Those pirates will have explosives rigged. One button. Remember, they have the money to secure some nice explosives and devices to set them off. I do not think they will run for the spiqot.

[LobsterBoy]

Maybe they'll wait for oil to hit $150 per barrel and sell it off one barrel at a time

They could even claim it to be a sovereign nation, Tankeristan, with proven oil reserves, and thus make it all legal

:rotfl:

[Skybird]

Maybe they'll wait for oil to hit $150 per barrel and sell it off one barrel at a time

They could even claim it to be a sovereign nation, Tankeristan, with proven oil reserves, and thus make it all legal

:rotfl:
Nice, we then could mention their RPGs equipped with chemical warheads, unleash an extensive air campaign to prepare for the ground invasion and have the 1st Airbonre embarking on deck until they get reinforcd by the 1st Cavalry. :D just digging out the moles under deck may prove to be a dirty and costly war of attrition. :lol:

[AVGWarhawk]

Tell you what, how about letting them starve it out. How much food do they have? Maybe a months worth? Very soon the bilge rats will be looking tasty. So, you give up or we wait until there are a bunch of skeletons at the helm:up:

[Task Force]

Blow the ships superstructure up, kill its engine, then do as said before and get oilspill controled. Then have fun with the rest.:yep: mine the heck out of a place where pirates frequent.Also start a agresive anti pirate campaign.

[LobsterBoy]

[/quote] Nice, we then could mention their RPGs equipped with chemical warheads, unleash an extensive air campaign to prepare for the ground invasion and have the 1st Airbonre embarking on deck until they get reinforcd by the 1st Cavalry. :D just digging out the moles under deck may prove to be a dirty and costly war of attrition. :lol:[/quote]

Just remember, when the oil is seized, that the action was taken to protect the hostages.

Then again, since the oil was going to the US, and thus US property, can't we call in NATO to assist?

[Graf Paper]

There's no oil spill to worry about cleaning up if you use a tactical nuke to vaporize the entire ship and its cargo. :D

[Dowly]

Me thinks the pirate boss aint that happy too see his boat being sunk... with all the rum! :doh:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Brrg_Kqh38

[Skybird]

Tell you what, how about letting them starve it out. How much food do they have? Maybe a months worth? Very soon the bilge rats will be looking tasty. So, you give up or we wait until there are a bunch of skeletons at the helm:up:

You would need to stop international humanitarian aid going into Africa then, of which major parts dissappear in hands of corrupt officials and militia leaders whom else would not allow it into the countries. Stop that aid nevertheless, and you kill millions and millions of rerally innocent ones.

Africa is a hellhole. Send aid and help mitlias and wars and corruption by that as well - to not help them and kill millions of innocent victims. Whatever you do - regarding your moral position you're screwed anyway.

[Tachyon]

Sid Meier should take a leaf out of these Pirates handbook...

[HunterICX]

Bring back the Gallows!

HunterICX

[jpm1]

the indian ship seems to have some stealth capabilities maybe that played a role in the attack success . concerning myself i'm still not for the send them all to outta space method , i've seen a documentary yesterday the pirate interviewed was saying "give us a governement we do what we do because of hunger ..."

[AVGWarhawk]

Tell you what, how about letting them starve it out. How much food do they have? Maybe a months worth? Very soon the bilge rats will be looking tasty. So, you give up or we wait until there are a bunch of skeletons at the helm:up:
You would need to stop international humanitarian aid going into Africa then, of which major parts dissappear in hands of corrupt officials and militia leaders whom else would not allow it into the countries. Stop that aid nevertheless, and you kill millions and millions of rerally innocent ones.

Africa is a hellhole. Send aid and help mitlias and wars and corruption by that as well - to not help them and kill millions of innocent victims. Whatever you do - regarding your moral position you're screwed anyway.

No Skybird...starve the pirates on the tanker! What does Africa have to do with starving a few pirates on a tanker? ;) Humanitarian aid? For pirates? I do not want to starve innocents. Just a hand full of jack nuts who took a tanker. :up:

[Skybird]

No Skybird...starve the pirates on the tanker! What does Africa have to do with starving a few pirates on a tanker? ;) Humanitarian aid? For pirates? I do not want to starve innocents. Just a hand full of jack nuts who took a tanker. :up:


Oh, just starving those on the tanker, I see, I thought you meant all Puntland.

Well.

The same day they had brought in the tanker and it had anchored at Eyt, the assault crew left it and headed to the ocean again - capturing another freighter within 20 hours after anchoring of the Sirius Star. Those clever bastards don't stay on the tanker.:D

Talking of a job-machine.

[AVGWarhawk]

No Skybird...starve the pirates on the tanker! What does Africa have to do with starving a few pirates on a tanker? ;) Humanitarian aid? For pirates? I do not want to starve innocents. Just a hand full of jack nuts who took a tanker. :up:

Oh, just starving those on the tanker, I see, I thought you meant all Puntland.

Well.

The same day they had brought in the tanker and it had anchored at Eyt, the assault crew left it and headed to the ocean again - capturing another freighter within 20 hours after anchoring of the Sirius Star. Those clever bastards don't stay on the tanker.:D

Talking of a job-machine.

Yes, they seem to be having a busy week. Just starve the pirates. Seems simple enough. Surround the tanker with warships. Have a BBQ on the fantail of all the warships and watch the pirates lick their chops:lol: Continue this until there are bony little devils on the tanker ready to throw in the towel for a BBQ rib :up:

[Stormin Norman]

:rotfl:

[AVGWarhawk]

The bets are on, who'll die of starvation first, the pirates or the hostages ? Go pirates go !

I wonder if they would resort to cannibalism:hmm: How many hostages are onboard?

[AVGWarhawk]

The Russians have sent in some warships.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/africa/11/20/russia.pirates.navy.somalia/index.html

This is what is needed. I'm really, what the hell, you got a few small boats pulling along side and taking over large merchants. Time to arm the merchant crew also.

[Raptor1]

Russia should hopefully know better than to use silly self-restricting ROEs, ne?

[Skybird]

The Russians have sent in some warships.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/africa/11/20/russia.pirates.navy.somalia/index.html

This is what is needed. I'm really, what the hell, you got a few small boats pulling along side and taking over large merchants. Time to arm the merchant crew also.
No. They are no trained fighters. Nor would I base infantry squada aboard civilian ships. And I wonder if arming them this way may change the legal status of the ship.

Give weapons only to trained hands, else they may do more bad than good.

[AVGWarhawk]

The Russians have sent in some warships.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/africa/11/20/russia.pirates.navy.somalia/index.html

This is what is needed. I'm really, what the hell, you got a few small boats pulling along side and taking over large merchants. Time to arm the merchant crew also. No. They are no trained fighters. Nor would I base infantry squada aboard civilian ships. And I wonder if arming them this way may change the legal status of the ship.

Give weapons only to trained hands, else they may do more bad than good.

Something has to give. Arm the ship with troops from the nation the ship hails from. A few guys with automatic weapons should do the trick.

[August]

I think India has the right idea. Keep sinking the pirate mother ships. Forcing them to base their little speedboats off the beach ought to limit their effectiveness quite a bit.

[jpm1]

Dude , if the russians send their warships there i wouldn't like to be on the pirates side the russians have quite impressive units .. :up:

[MothBalls]

Dude , if the russians send their warships there i wouldn't like to be on the pirates side the russians have quite impressive units .. :up:

More important is their willingness to use those toys. I think the pirates are about to be schooled.

[AVGWarhawk]

Dude , if the russians send their warships there i wouldn't like to be on the pirates side the russians have quite impressive units .. :up:
More important is their willingness to use those toys. I think the pirates are about to be schooled.

Exactly, Russia has had a itchy trigger finger for a long time. They are not afraid to use their toys.

[Tachyon]

I'd like to see Russia send a nuclear sub to the region, assuming she doesn't bork like the Kursk. :nope:

Oh wait, I have a better idea. Stuff all the Pirates into the Russian sub and wait for the reactor to leak. Problem solved!

[bookworm_020]

I'd like to see Russia send a nuclear sub to the region, assuming she doesn't bork like the Kursk. :nope:

Oh wait, I have a better idea. Stuff all the Pirates into the Russian sub and wait for the reactor to leak. Problem solved!

That was a little below the belt???:-?

[Skybird]

Geman news says that heavily armed islamistic fighters have entered the harbour town of Heradheere in search for the pirates who caught the Saudi Sirius Star. They said they would hold them responsible for having hijacked a Muslim ship, means: they want to attack them. A local warlord's spokesman said that hijacking a Muslim ship is a greater crime than hijacking an non-Muslim ship.

No joke, it's true.:88) Could we next have the the parade of the clowns and the choir of the Jehovian witnesses please.

[AntEater]

I suppose the Saudi arabian merchant marine will experience some growth in the next weeks.....
:rotfl:

[fatty]

Russia should hopefully know better than to use silly self-restricting ROEs, ne?

It's not so much silly self-restricting ROEs that are in the way as it is international maritime law. One gets you a reprimend, the other sends you to international criminal courts.

[Etienne]

Am I the only one here who's thinking about the CREW of those ships?

Yeah, go ahead. Starve 'em. It's not like sailors are human beings or anything (Ok, change of subject, you don't want me to start on THAT rant)

The pirates don't care if you disable the engine of the tanker. They don't really intend to move it around that much, so the only person who's gonna be pissed is the ship owner (And the crew members you just killed)

Destroying the superstructure without destroying the rest of the ship? Good luck. There's this thing known as heat transfer, and... Well, let's just say the rest of the ship'd suffer.

Also, you just killed the entire crew.

As for the pirates using explosives to spill oil, good luck. We're talking double-hulled tankers here, so unless they have TONS of explosives, they might be able to get one, two tanks to spill. And if they want to spill the whole tank, they have to make a pretty big hole.

I don't think the spill response ressources are available in that area to mitigate that... Plus, who's gonna pay them? Most of them are private companies. And moving that much spill response ressource to one area is gonna leave other areas wildly uncovered. Something the insurance companies, coastal states and P&I wouldn't like. Increase in premium, increase in shipping rates, increase in oil prices, etc.

Really, modern piracy? It's just like Pirates of the Caribbean!

[Task Force]

Well, maby ships should start sailing in escorted convoys when going through pirated areas. Maby arm ships so they are ready, just incase of a pirate boarding.:hmm: Etienne did bring up a good point, what about the crew who did nothing. They dont diserve to be killed.

[Etienne]

Well, maby ships should start sailing in escorted convoys when going through pirated areas. Maby arm ships so they are ready, just incase of a pirate boarding.:hmm: Etienne did bring up a good point, what about the crew who did nothing. They dont diserve to be killed.

Convoys would mean having the ships wait around until there are enough units available to form a convoy. Hence, delays, lost revenues... Shareholders won't like it. Statistically speaking, I doubt the companies would consider it profitable.

Also, who's gonna pay to escort the ships? Their flag states? Yeah, I'm sure the Bahamian navy's gonna team up with Liberia and rush to Somalia... International forces, well, there's alway a ton of bitching that goes with that, isn't there?

Eventually, international forces will have to start cleaning up the areas, but I don't see that happening too soon, although the spike in media interest (Y'all don't think this is something that just happened overnight, do you?) might help somewhat.

Arming merchant ships just isn't practical, for many reasons (Legalities, training, and cost, amongst other things) so don't expect to see that happening anytime soon.

The best way to get to those pirates would be to start on land, as was mentionned earlier. Speedboat chases are cool and all, but not very efficient.

[MothBalls]

I don't know what the right answer is, but it has to be something other than paying the ransom.

Pirates collect $150 million in ransoms
More than $150 million has been paid to pirates around the Horn of Africa over the past 12 months, Kenya's foreign minister said Friday.
....
They currently hold 17 vessels and are estimated to have attacked more than 90 ships in the region so far this year, according to the International Maritime Bureau's Piracy Reporting Center, which monitors piracy around the world.
...
The money is also funneled through international crime syndicates who take their cut, give the rest to the pirates, and use their profit to bankroll even larger attacks with bigger ransoms.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/africa/11/21/pirates.ransom.payments/index.html?eref=rss_latest


It's a global issue. I think it's time the UN coordinate a military solution with all of the global powers and put an end to this now.

[fatty]

Am I the only one here who's thinking about the CREW of those ships?

Yeah, go ahead. Starve 'em. It's not like sailors are human beings or anything (Ok, change of subject, you don't want me to start on THAT rant)

The pirates don't care if you disable the engine of the tanker. They don't really intend to move it around that much, so the only person who's gonna be pissed is the ship owner (And the crew members you just killed)

Destroying the superstructure without destroying the rest of the ship? Good luck. There's this thing known as heat transfer, and... Well, let's just say the rest of the ship'd suffer.

Also, you just killed the entire crew.

As for the pirates using explosives to spill oil, good luck. We're talking double-hulled tankers here, so unless they have TONS of explosives, they might be able to get one, two tanks to spill. And if they want to spill the whole tank, they have to make a pretty big hole.

I don't think the spill response ressources are available in that area to mitigate that... Plus, who's gonna pay them? Most of them are private companies. And moving that much spill response ressource to one area is gonna leave other areas wildly uncovered. Something the insurance companies, coastal states and P&I wouldn't like. Increase in premium, increase in shipping rates, increase in oil prices, etc.

Really, modern piracy? It's just like Pirates of the Caribbean!

QFT. A nice breath of fresh air, just when I was beginning to think they were all cow boys :D

[Skybird]

Well, maby ships should start sailing in escorted convoys when going through pirated areas. Maby arm ships so they are ready, just incase of a pirate boarding.:hmm: Etienne did bring up a good point, what about the crew who did nothing. They dont diserve to be killed.
The French are doing this since quite some time, and organise convoys of up to thirty ships. But they cannot meet the demand. with the forces available.

also, convoys do not delete the cause of the problem, and live the pirates unharmed. We need to fight, and bring the fight to them. I recommend to vote for going Klingon here. they are inferior to western firepower. Let'S take them head-on and crush them with our big hammer, on sea and on land. and if they want to detonate that tanker, let them. It is their coast getting a new colour, not ours. their coast - their problem. The Saudis can afford the loss of that tankload.

[caspofungin]

ah, the old collective punishment gambit. that's worked well in... oh, wait, nowhere.

[Skybird]

Major parts of the "collective" living in the coastal area are in support of piracy, directly or indirectly, and now found their lives on it. ;) they even called in more fighters from areas not close to the coast that usually are not involved in piracy - to defend that Saudi tanker. Latest reports say they now have several hundred fighters on that ship and in the vicinity of that harbour town alone.

You are wrong when assuming there are just a handful of pirates and the rest is different people. Piracy is the dominating business there, now. They have started to base their "society building" - if one may call it like that - on it.

If you accept that, there will be pirates for years and decades, and for as long as there already is the rule or warlords, anarchy, and war. ;)

You will not well-mean the problem away. You fight it and kill pirates and destroy their support structure on land, or you don't.

[caspofungin]

i have no issue w/ fighting and killing pirates on the high seas.

however, my impression from various media sources is that the support structure you advocate wiping out is mostly composed of civilians that don't have much choice in the matter -- either serve the pirates or starve, at best, get shot, at worst.

that's the moral argument. the pragmatic argument is that when you attack a village on the coast, regardless of whether everyone there is a pirate or not, there will be survivors or relatives who will use the death of their relations as an excuse to attack western shipping in general.

this has happened before -- how many militia members/insurgents/whatever in lebanon, palestine, iraq, or somalia itself have taken up arms because they hold someone else responsible for the death of a family or clan member?


Piracy is the dominating business there, now. They have started to base their "society building" - if one may call it like that - on it.


you have to offer something else then for them to make a livelihood on -- protect their fishing stocks or something. because it's fact -- desparate or determined men aren't going to be easily dissuaded by the application of violence or even by losses that would stagger a comparable western community.

[Skybird]

Many of those serving in militias do so becasue they have no alterntaive, but in the militias get something to eat. Many of them were civilians before they did that. Before they let themselves hired for pirate commandos, they had not beenpirates, obviously. Those villages supporting them now, were no pirate supporting villages before they started to do so, but now they are. They raise their standard of living by doing so, it is their business, the basis of their income. Why it has come that way, is open for debate, and some guilt lies on foriegn powers who have exploited Africa and kept conflicts alive for thei9r own interest since over a hundred years and do so until today. but a lot also is the Africans own guilt and roots in corruption as well as ethnic animosities.

Omne can debate that until Santa Claus decides to get a shave. but it does not chnage the current immidate problem: the turning of the place into a piracy depending "culture", and this mere fact being turned into an argument of why one should not fight against porates and try to get them by their roots. And these roots are not on sea - they are on land and very interwoven with true civilians, piracy-tolerant and supoorting civilians, piracy friendly civilians, and actual pirates themselves - some of them doung it as a part time job: being pirate this day, and peaceful civilian the next day.

yesterday they topped it by complaining that the lastest captures they made increased in the costs the operations caused to themn, and that they have to increase the ransoms they demand to compensate for their grown spendings. There you see how serious they take the 2interntional community" and how impressed they are by all those frigates and patrolboats. they mock at us! and right they do, for we deserve it by our determination to not confront them with determination. we make a joke of ourselves. that yesterday also Islamists started to interfere, saying that hijacking a Muslim ship is a greater crime than hijacking a non-Muslim ship, just adds to the overall level of ridicule we attract by our lacking fighting spirit.

Let's go Klingon and take them frontally. the problem will be solved quickly once enough of them have died and their bosses see their new villas and properties burning, and villagers are so angry at them that they do not support them any longer. Shoot on sight, no matter where - a pirate is a pirate even if momentarily he is not busy with hijacking a foreign ship. We don't want arrests, and we don't want them at court and them then asking for political asylum. Reducing them by numbers just will do the job.

[Tachyon]

I think the best way to trap these pirates is to send ships similar to the German Raiders.

As you all know, the Germans used Auxiliary Cruisers flying false colours until they got within range and then opened fire.

Why not send a Tanker (no cargo) loaded with troops in a similar manner? The Pirates attempt to Hijack and then... SURPRISE!
It'll make them think twice about hijacking even a normal freighter in future. Crazy idea, what do you think? :P

Someone previously did mention arming Merchants, but this is a little different.

[August]

PS:Now I'm waiting eagerly for the Klingon team being sent to wipe out my house and my sorry pirate supporter ass :D

Don't worry Mik, all you'd have to do is get the US to be the Klingons and Skybird would be rushing to your defense like he does Al Quaedas...

[Neptunus Rex]

This is what happens when political apathy prevails at the leadership level. Here in the USA that includes both the Congress and POTUS. and please don't mention the President Elect. He has no authority until Jan 20th. (The title is a creation of the media).

The single most important purpose that any country's Navy exists is to fight this very thing, piracy! The waters that the pirates are operating in are INTERNATIONAL WATERS and the UN has NO mandate to issue any statement or policy regarding dealing with these "people".

Confront, warn and if they do not "heave to", blow them out of the water!

The US Marine Corp was created for this very purpose.

[Jimbuna]

This is what happens when political apathy prevails at the leadership level. Here in the USA that includes both the Congress and POTUS. and please don't mention the President Elect. He has no authority until Jan 20th. (The title is a creation of the media).

The single most important purpose that any country's Navy exists is to fight this very thing, piracy! The waters that the pirates are operating in are INTERNATIONAL WATERS and the UN has NO mandate to issue any statement or policy regarding dealing with these "people".

Confront, warn and if they do not "heave to", blow them out of the water!

The US Marine Corp was created for this very purpose.

I wonder if the US and UK governments would be interested in purchasing my Q Ship mod http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/1817/thinkbigsw1yo4.gif

[MothBalls]

Major parts of the "collective" living in the coastal area are in support of piracy, directly or indirectly, and now found their lives on it.

I find it amazing that you always know exactly what is happening thousands of miles away, half way around the world, while sitting in the comfort of your own home. It's even more amazing when you tell me what's happening in my country, from the same perspective.

[Skybird]

Major parts of the "collective" living in the coastal area are in support of piracy, directly or indirectly, and now found their lives on it.

I find it amazing that you always know exactly what is happening thousands of miles away, half way around the world, while sitting in the comfort of your own home. It's even more amazing when you tell me what's happening in my country, from the same perspective.
You mean my threads on the recession? Do you really think I would care for Americas finacial policy if only america would take the damage from it? In fact what makes me angry is that all the rest of the world is taking the damage of american failures in that, and american resistence to to preemptively safeguard against that. And nwhat makes me kost angry that afterwards one even is not allowed to say that it is america having caused and being respinisble for having triggered this "accident" without being called "arrogant". I don't know if America is God's own nation, but it certainly is the most innocent nation there is.

Ships now take the longer - and more expensive - route around Southern africa, thes try to avoid the Suez channel. This increases shipping time and shipping costs. This increases costs the economy has to come up for. These costs will be compensated by higher prices of goods. This will decrease the number of itemns sold. This will decrease the economy. This will increase unemployment and job cuts especially in the current now ifficial recession. In the end, I will have to pay for it like everybody else. Try tell me we have no interest in fighting those pirates! ;)

and for your last final criticism, I have not been in Somalia, but quite some other places in the wider vicinity, northern Africa, and ME, and for quite some longer time. Don't tell me I see it just from my warm nest. I have seen the life of people in quite some countries, and not as a tourist from the window of a five star hotel. And that is why I am maybe able to see some factors and their interaction better then somebody who sees it only from his western home nation that he has never left but still tells the world it is the best nation there is even if it rasies problems after problems for others. To do so is what I find amazing. I also must say that I find British and German news to be far more diverse and detail-covering, than american news. so when referring to thse sources I necessarily must get another view than if I would just read american news. that'S why I read news sites and magazines from Gemany, Britain, France, the US, Korea, Japan, Russia and China.

I have often made it clear that I am more hesitant than quite some others in this forum to declare a war; but that if doing so I would will to wage it far more determined and inforgivingly then most others. Tell me what is wrong with having no illusions about war. In my way I would wage much fewer wars than your nation that has waged almost two dozen wars and military campaigns since WWII, most of them for questionable and selfish motives, and launching them as wars of aggression and to see it'S own selfish interests through.

[Skybird]

Moscow and Washington agree that pirates must be hunted down not only on sea, but on land as well:

http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/0,1518,592138,00.html

So far German language only, but I assume it will be included in the international edition within the next 2-3 days.

[MothBalls]

Do you really think I would care for Americas finacial policy if only america would take the damage from it? In fact what makes me angry is that all the rest of the world is taking the damage of american failures in that, and american resistence to to preemptively safeguard against that.

I think anything with the words US or America in it make you angry. I'm a little burnt out on watching The Skybird Show so I think I'll just change the channel for a while.

[August]

I think anything with the words US or America in it make you angry. I'm a little burnt out on watching The Skybird Show so I think I'll just change the channel for a while.

You're only like the thousandth person to feel that way on this forum.

[Skybird]

----------------------------------------------------------------"Dammit - pirates...!"------
http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/1425/24079332311ingefahrtsnv2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
-------------------------------------World in danger!--------------------------------------

[August]

Oh oh. The Indians might have sunk the wrong ship....

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27903621/

[Skybird]

The pirate ship the Indian navy left behind in flames - apparently have not been a mothership, but a freighter hijacked short before, with the crew of 17 and in chains still being aboard. This could eventually become a PR-desaster for the Indian navy.

[August]

So I just said in the post above your which if you weren't ignoring me would have seen... :roll:

[August]

I love follow-up news for that delicious "oops factor".
Btw I have a complete list of all the people who were cheering at the Indian navy for their great action against the pirate scum :D

I still think the Indians have the right idea. Go after the pirates and blow them out of the water at every opportunity. But then again i'm an American, according to some we don't care about collateral damages...

[MothBalls]

I love follow-up news for that delicious "oops factor".
Btw I have a complete list of all the people who were cheering at the Indian navy for their great action against the pirate scum :D

$5 says I'm on that list.

I'm sure the Indian Navy acted with the best of intentions. Now that the details are out it's a different story. I really feel bad for the innocent sailors, their family and friends, who got caught in the middle of this terrible tragedy.

Let's not lose sight of why it happened in the first place. Their ship was being fired upon, from that vessel. There was no way they could know it was actually the pirates who commandeered the vessel.

The pirates need to be dealt with, harshly and swiftly. I'm sure all of the other warships in the area are going to take heart of this lesson learned and be extra careful to identify the ships they fire upon.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki II]

The pirates need to be dealt with, harshly and swiftly. I'm sure all of the other warships in the area are going to take heart of this lesson learned and be extra careful to identify the ships they fire upon.

What would likely happen after all this is that the ROE would be tightened even further, and they won't return fire even as the pirates pepper their ship with RPGs, for fear of causing more innocent casualties (read: bad press) :roll:

[baggygreen]

The pirates need to be dealt with, harshly and swiftly. I'm sure all of the other warships in the area are going to take heart of this lesson learned and be extra careful to identify the ships they fire upon.

What would likely happen after all this is that the ROE would be tightened even further, and they won't return fire even as the pirates pepper their ship with RPGs, for fear of causing more innocent casualties (read: bad press) :roll:might help if the press was more interested in facts than bleeding heart sob stories, too..