120ft deep torpedo attack

[gimpy117]

is this possible in game because it was in real life!!
Wikipedia article:

"Triton observed the Japanese (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan) bombing the island. On the night of 10 December (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/December_10), she was surfaced, charging her batteries, when flashes of light from Wake revealed a destroyer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destroyer) or light cruiser (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cruiser) on a parallel course. The submarine was silhouetted against the moon, and the enemy ship turned towards her. Triton went deep and began evasive action. When the Japanese ship slowed astern, the submarine came to 120 feet (37 m) and fired four stern torpedoes—the first American torpedoes shot during World War II (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II)—on sonar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonar) bearings.[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Triton_%28SS-201%29#cite_note-6) She heard a dull explosion 58 seconds later and believed one had hit the target, then went to 175 feet (53 m) and cleared the area. (No sinking was recorded, and she was not credited with one.)" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Triton_%28SS-201%29#cite_note-7)

If it isn't I think we should make it so!

[donut]

I think playes have changed fireing depth,but the procedure was not published.
Agreed needed[WIP] Mod:up:

[Rockin Robbins]

In the stock game and RFB you can open torpedo doors down to 199 feet. In TMO that has been reduced to 99 feet. In real life the minimum specification for firing cuties was 190 feet. Most were launched from deeper.

So the answer is that the game already allows for firing torpedoes from much deeper than the story relates. No mod needed.

[donut]

Hi R.R. just being a troll:roll:

[Nisgeis]

On the night of 10 December (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/December_10)

Of what year?

[AirborneTD]

On the night of 10 December (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/December_10)

Of what year?

1941. Wake fell to the Japanese in December of 41.

[Nisgeis]

Thanks.

[Rockin Robbins]

Folks, that is the beauty of the position keeper. If you have a good solution and the position keeper is on, there is no reason you can't dive to 190 feet, punch the fire button and put the bugger on the bottom.

It would be less accurate than firing from periscope depth because no solution is perfect and there would be time for the solution to diverge from the target while you got down to depth. On the other hand, you can know how much time that takes ahead of time, plus the torpedo travel time and ensure that the attack map confirms a solution good enough before you dive and fire.

[EAGLE_01]

Folks, that is the beauty of the position keeper. If you have a good solution and the position keeper is on, there is no reason you can't dive to 190 feet, punch the fire button and put the bugger on the bottom.

It would be less accurate than firing from periscope depth because no solution is perfect and there would be time for the solution to diverge from the target while you got down to depth. On the other hand, you can know how much time that takes ahead of time, plus the torpedo travel time and ensure that the attack map confirms a solution good enough before you dive and fire.

So then why is it that when I try to open doors at anything deeper than periscope depth, I get the "too deep to fire torpedoes, sir" message?:hmm:

edited because I can't spell. Got tested on Thursday. I am at a sixth grade level, and I'm 46 with a little college....:nope:

[Rockin Robbins]

Mod follies. Stock and RFB go to 199', TMO goes to 99' to open torpedo doors. The real submarines could open torpedo doors below 200'. Specifications for the Cutie stated that they were not to be fired from above 199'.

[EAGLE_01]

Mod follies. Stock and RFB go to 199', TMO goes to 99' to open torpedo doors. The real submarines could open torpedo doors below 200'. Specifications for the Cutie stated that they were not to be fired from above 199'.
Yep, been a TMO fan from the git-go. Thanks, at least now I know at what depth I can fire...

ps. Rachel Weis is SO hot...(the Mummy #? is on.) he he...:rock:

[Sailor Steve]

ps. Rachel Weis is SO hot...(the Mummy #? is on.) he he...:rock:
The best reason I can think of to watch Enemy at the Gates.:yep:

[gimpy117]

sorry to necro this....

but is there a way to make the auto target on a sound contact work??

I'm no math wizz and I'm daunted by all this targeting stuff...

[peabody]

Stock and RFB go to 199'

My stock game will not fire below 100 ft. Guage isn't accurate enough to know if that is actually 99 ft, and I don't know where the settings are, but in a Gato I get "We are Too deep to launch, Sir" at 100 ft. in stock 1.5

Peabody

[donut]

:shifty: Stock and RFB go to 199'

My stock game will not fire below 100 ft. Guage isn't accurate enough to know if that is actually 99 ft, and I don't know where the settings are, but in a Gato I get "We are Too deep to launch, Sir" at 100 ft. in stock 1.5

Peabody:roll:

[Rockin Robbins]

sorry to necro this....

but is there a way to make the auto target on a sound contact work??

I'm no math wizz and I'm daunted by all this targeting stuff...
I can't think of any way you could get auto target to work on a sound contact. Auto targeting is strictly fixed to the periscope.

Even if you could successfully send the range and bearing to the TDC, the auto targeting needs the speed and AoB, and that can't come from there. I think you're out of luck.

[gimpy117]

that's too bad...

I guess I'll need to learn to use manual...

[aanker]

My stock game will not fire below 100 ft. Guage isn't accurate enough to know if that is actually 99 ft, and I don't know where the settings are, but in a Gato I get "We are Too deep to launch, Sir" at 100 ft. in stock 1.5

Peabody
In stock this 199' can be edited with a text editor like Notepad in:
(example: Data\Submarine\NSS_Gato\NSS_Gato.cfg) under the [Properties] section to:

TorpLaunchMaxDepth=60;meters

Then use Shift + F2 in the Command Room and free cam to the 450' gauge.

It would be a manual solution. This method is best for cuties however.

Happy Hunting!

Art

[donut]

Nice of you to publish.:rock: Note pad edit solution,for depth fireings:up:

[aanker]

I can't think of any way you could get auto target to work on a sound contact. Auto targeting is strictly fixed to the periscope.

Even if you could successfully send the range and bearing to the TDC, the auto targeting needs the speed and AoB, and that can't come from there. I think you're out of luck.
I just realized that by using the pre-TDC method the S-Boats used made famous to us by Frank Kulick, you don't even need the TDC; so a sonar torpedo attack should be possible in auto TDC mode using manual plotting. If the torpedo track is the same as your track, just fire (Enter or Ctrl + Enter depending on your keyboard settings for firing torpedoes) when the target crosses your calculated firing launch point. The torpedo speed is known, target track, distance, and speed can be plotted... just have to calculate the firing point so the two intercept. No AOB is needed.

Here is the excellent "ATTACK PROCEDURES WITHOUT THE USE OF THE TDC"
from: http://www.valoratsea.com/notdc.htm
by Frank Kulick

Given all the map tools SH4 has I don't know why this wouldn't work much easier in SH4.

Worth a try....

Art

[Arclight]

:hmm:

Is it me, or is that just an overcomplicated Dick O'Kane? Well, at least that part 1.

[aanker]

:hmm:

Is it me, or is that just an overcomplicated Dick O'Kane? Well, at least that part 1.
Okay, maybe need to rename the O'Kane method to the Kulick method. Keep in mind Frank Kulick wrote that for SH1 - SHCE back in the mid - late 90's without all the map tools SH4 has to offer. Forget the plotting board, paper, clear protractor to hold up to the monitor, dividers, etc. I was referring to the technique.

Also, in this very thread the "O'Kane method for sonar attack" author - 'creator' couldn't point "gimpy117" to a solution for a sonar attack using Auto TDC.... lol

I posted the link to help "gimpy117". The main thing is to have fun! (this post is all in fun)

Happy Hunting!

Art

[Rockin Robbins]

I can't think of any way you could get auto target to work on a sound contact. Auto targeting is strictly fixed to the periscope.

Even if you could successfully send the range and bearing to the TDC, the auto targeting needs the speed and AoB, and that can't come from there. I think you're out of luck. I just realized that by using the pre-TDC method the S-Boats used made famous to us by Frank Kulick, you don't even need the TDC; so a sonar torpedo attack should be possible in auto TDC mode using manual plotting. If the torpedo track is the same as your track, just fire (Enter or Ctrl + Enter depending on your keyboard settings for firing torpedoes) when the target crosses your calculated firing launch point. The torpedo speed is known, target track, distance, and speed can be plotted... just have to calculate the firing point so the two intercept. No AOB is needed.
Here is the excellent "ATTACK PROCEDURES WITHOUT THE USE OF THE TDC"
from: http://www.valoratsea.com/notdc.htm
by Frank Kulick

Given all the map tools SH4 has I don't know why this wouldn't work much easier in SH4.

Worth a try....

Art
It wouldn't be Dick O'Kane because Dick O'Kane uses the TDC to calculate the lead angle, which you don't even necessarily have to know.

Actually Nisgeis teaches the vector analysis method and I incorporated it as an option in the John P Cromwell method. Unfortunately, you still have to develop the target speed. In order to develop the target speed, you must also know.....you guessed it.....the range and course.

Well, you can get that from the plot if you plot the range and bearing of each sonar or radar observation. Just make those two observations three minutes apart and you have a pretty perfect course and speed. You can use that for the vector analysis. You have to make sure your periscope is pointed at the zero bearing for auto targeting.......I think. Maybe the torpedo just goes out the front on a zero gyro angle if you aren't sighted at a ship in the periscope. I'm not sure about that and will have to play with it.

By measuring the number of hundred yards between the observations, you have the speed and course to use to plot the vectors. Vector analysis gives you a perfect zero gyro shot every time. As long as you can predictably shoot a zero gyro shot on auto, it shouldn't be a problem.

I've never seen Frank Kulik's work. I'll have to give it a visit to see how similar our methods really are. No matter how you approach the problem you still have to separate the skin from the cat, so there must be some similarities in the methods.:rock:

Edit: OK, I read Frank Kulik's article. He violates my #1 rule of attack method, which is a personal choice--no real right or wrong to it. In all the methods I teach I never go outside the game for plotting with pencil or paper, or even my beloved MoBo, or calculator or chart. I think this tends to kill game immersion and sometimes even forces you to pause the game, totally disrupting the flow of the attack to get the job done. The first thing Frank does is have you get your plotting paper, pencil, dividers, ruler, protractor and calculator. Although he and Nisgeis are doing the same thing, Nisgeis' vector analysis method with in-game tools is quicker and just as accurate, while not requiring you to take up drafting, provided you know the torpedo speeds from memory.

[Arclight]

I didn't mean they're exactly the same, just that the steps (wether you do them in-game or not) are much alike. I was just reading it and I thought "this sounds familiar". You know; Steer a square angle track to target track, generate a lead angle so torpedo track is at bearing 0, fire as target crosses you're "lead-angle-bearing".

I didn't mean to sell Frank Kulick short, or glorify what we call the Dick O'Kane method around here. The similarities just struck me. Thought that was pretty cool, actually. :)

[Rockin Robbins]

Well, it's not like they weren't doing that 50 years before I was born!:rotfl:In 1914, that's all they had to work with. No, the geometry is the same for all these attack methods. They differ in the way the geometry is applied, but Kulick's, Nisgeis', Wahoo's and my methods all rely on the same underlying math.

Kulick uses a pencil, paper and calculator in his method, Nisgeis uses a vector analysis on the nav map of the game, Wahoo uses the U-Boat periscope/TDC link and I use the fleet boat TDC to apply that same mathematical principle.