This guy is as....

[AVGWarhawk]

bipartisan as a pitbull with a litter of kittens.


http://apnews.myway.com/article/20081105/D9492S2O0.html


Good luck to us with working accross the isle. :down:

[SteamWake]

Saw that ... disturbing really.

Add to that list John Kerry, Robert Kennedy Jr., and some others I cant remember.

"Lead from the center"... right... "Checks and balances"... Sigh...

Im going to **** can my 401K and stuff all my meager savings in a mattres. Ill probably have to spend it all on food now.

[AVGWarhawk]

He has been likened to a hemmoroid and a tooth ache.

[Tchocky]

You make it sound like WH Chief of Staff is a legislative post, rather than a position that is given to someone the President-elect knows and trusts.

That Obama pledged to work with Republicans does not make the appointment of one Democrat by another a surprise. At all.

There is no story here.


Good luck to us with working accross the isle. :down:

It's interesting that you judge so quickly.

[AntEater]

So Obama picks the Clinton boys one by one.
So much for "Change"
I guess you have to sacrifice something if you want power, even if it is all you stand for
:damn::rotfl:

Don't get me wrong, I like Obama, but I think he would've recruited a better team out of the Southside Chicago neighbourhood councils than out of the Clinton ivy league brigade.
The same people who were so eager to bomb Yugoslavia and Susan Rice who more or less is responsible for around half the bloodshed in Kongo.

[Sea Demon]

First the reps complain that "one vote for Obama is one vote against Israel", and then they complain when Obama picks someone like Rahm Emanuel to assist him. Go figure.

Rahm Emanuel is not exactly a friend of Israel. He is more proof that liberals from any persuasion, background, or race are ideology driven first and foremost. National integrity and security is never a concern to these people, ideology always is. I wonder if an Obama administration will throw Israeli security under the bus. There is a view that it is very feasible unfortunately.

[AVGWarhawk]

You make it sound like WH Chief of Staff is a legislative post, rather than a position that is given to someone the President-elect knows and trusts.

That Obama pledged to work with Republicans does not make the appointment of one Democrat by another a surprise. At all.

There is no story here.


Good luck to us with working accross the isle. :down:
It's interesting that you judge so quickly.

Is it just me or do you not read the history of this man NOT working across the isle? Quick to judge? He has been around since the Clinton Admin and he was an attack dog then.

[Skybird]

A chief of staff is meant to cover the back of a president and keep it free from personal unloyalty, to get his demands for info, proceedings and personell being processed in time, so that the president must not waste time with figuring out questions of methodology, but can focus on the substance of issues. A chief of staff HAS to be an attack dog, at least a dog with a terrifying display of teeth and the ability to bite right through the bone - if needed. Lord Vader would be my pick for this special job. Compared to that, an experienced person like Obama'S choice, who already knows the job and is described as being well-linked in washington and in the structures of bureaucracy as well, is a harmless but still competent choice. Obama does not wish to waste time with needing to train his staff once he is in office, the transition should be smooth and fast. By what I read about the man - good choice, I say, also somebody who does not accept to be intimidated easily. When Hillary Hlionton tried to fire him because of him using tough language too often, he is said to have snapped back at her, saying that this is not up t her to decide, but the president. Bill kept him. - I would consider to keep Gates for defense. The rumour of Schwarzenegger for environment or energy also is not a bad option, I think. Hillary Clinton for health and social things, reform of the health system is an unfinished vision of her and her husband, thus she may show welcomed - and needed - enthusiasm to fight for it. Kerry for foreign policy is something I can live without. Before Kerry, better Powell.

[AntEater]

From my personal view, there's no such thing as an anti-israeli jew.
Most jews I know are pretty liberal, opposed to settlements and the wall and whatever, but when Eretz Israel is threatened, they are loyal.
Suppose the same applies to Axelrod and this guy.
The only anti-israeli jews I know are those strange sects who think that founding Israel before the coming of the messiah is a sin...
:rotfl:

The problem is that the average american conservative thinks anyone who is not constantly killing his neighbours (or at least talking about it :D) is a weakling and a coward.

[nikimcbee]

He has been likened to a hemmoroid and a tooth ache.

ha, I saw that news quote too.:rotfl:

[Sea Demon]

I think that's a good summary, but according to Sea Demon most American jews are ready to throw Israel under the bus : http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/jewvote.html
I didn't see any exit poll of jewish voters for this election yet but I'm sure the results are similar.
Damn these liberal cowards who don't care about their own security :smug:
Let's hope that political threads keep being that funny.

Mikhayl, don't be an idiot. I understand how difficult that may be for you. There is a very good reason for saying what I've said. Emanuel has shown to have a stake and interest in Israel when it suited political gains. That's what I've seen regarding his political career. He has done good work for Israel in deed (very commendable), yet has been silent when people in his party (in ideology) have done things that contradict Israeli security in general. I see that as putting ideology (or at least political party) before one of our Democratic allies security interests. I said nothing about Jewish voters not caring about Israel. And yes, when it comes to National Security issues, our liberals here just don't perform very well. It is what it is.

[AntEater]

Do they?
I'm an outsider, but from my opinion this largely comes from the fact that:
Democrats do not beat their chests in public as often.
From an outsider's view, Clinton did pretty much the same as Bush, with a much better public relations department. Clinton could get away with flattening a aspirin factory in Sudan with Tomahawks, after all...
The military is staunchly republican:
It alway amazed me how Clinton was blamed for the "Blackhawk down" fiasco while he basically gave the military a free hand while Reagan was not blamed for the Lebanon fiasco despite micromanaging both the troop deployment and the air raids from Washington.
Basically, if the dems screw up a war, its the administration, if the republicans do the same, it is tragic circumstances.
:rotfl:

[Sea Demon]

Do they?
I'm an outsider, but from my opinion this largely comes from the fact that:
Democrats do not beat their chests in public as often.
From an outsider's view, Clinton did pretty much the same as Bush, with a much better public relations department. Clinton could get away with flattening a aspirin factory in Sudan with Tomahawks, after all...
The military is staunchly republican:
It alway amazed me how Clinton was blamed for the "Blackhawk down" fiasco while he basically gave the military a free hand while Reagan was not blamed for the Lebanon fiasco despite micromanaging both the troop deployment and the air raids from Washington.
Basically, if the dems screw up a war, its the administration, if the republicans do the same, it is tragic circumstances.
:rotfl:
Yes. The Democrat Party was the one that invited members of the Chinese military to go to our Los Alamos and Sandia Labratories. The environment of the Clinto era also enabled some very sensitive space technologies to be passed directly and indirectly to PLA sources. Stuff like radiation hardened chips, improved rocket guidance systems (good for missile accuracy), militarized fiber optics technology, super-computers used for nuclear weapons designs, etc. Not only that but look at the actions Clinton waged. Absolute disaster from the aspects of military resource utilization. He wasted Precious Tomahawks on targets of little significance, made aircraft fly higher than they should have flown against Serb targets to prevent aircraft loss.....most likely for political reasons. He cut back the military iin the 90's to unnacceptable levels. I served in that military and remember the "doing more with less" stuff. I believe he did that as a means to help with obtaining a budget surplus. Absolutely dangerous to lives of people in uniform. Going back further, the Tip O'Neil Congress in the 80's was rather burdened by the very military programs that helped us keep the edge on the Soviet Union. Jimmy Carter as President was like a subservient dog in his dealings with General Secretary Brezhnev. And Jimmy Carter, like Clinton, cut vital programs but for other reasons. I believe part of it was that he thought he could temper Soviet aggression through a compassionate approach. Proved to be naive any way you look at it. And last but not least, liberal Dems during our time of war during the last few years have shown themselves to be totally attrocious people, and counter-productive to support of our troops in the field during that time of war. They obviously hate Bush (the C-in-C), but have done everything they could to destroy national unity and morale, to the detriment of securing a win and creating new conditions of peace. I don't care if they don't like the war. Nor do I care if they voice it. But the false charges, BS propaganda (Haditha Marines) (Comparing our troops to Nazis),threatening to defund troops in a time of war are not the acts of people who care about national security interests. They actually act counter to it. Need I go on?

[Sea Demon]

First, don't call people on internet something you wouldn't dare call them in real life.
Second, both Palestinian and Israeli newspapers disagree with you on Emanuel.

Then perhaps you might not want to improperly attribute statements to me that I have not said. Secondly, I don't give any newspaper (Israeli - and especially Palestinian) too much clout. I am capable of forming an opinion independently of newspaper editorials based on my own observations. I'm sure US newspapers have a number of views regarding Mr. Emanuel.

[Thomen]

Well.. well.... well..

Emanuel, who was a senior adviser for former President Bill Clinton throughout the 1990s, was appointed to the board of Freddie Mac upon his departure from the Clinton administration.

http://www.businessandmedia.org/articles/2008/20081106133228.aspx

[Skybird]

point one on Obama's to-do-list:


http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/3629/obamacaricaturemj8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

:lol:

And this one, a bit older, but also a good one:


http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/2391/obamacartoonjx9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

:rotfl:

[Konovalov]

First, don't call people on internet something you wouldn't dare call them in real life.
Second, both Palestinian and Israeli newspapers disagree with you on Emanuel.

Then perhaps you might not want to improperly attribute statements to me that I have not said. Secondly, I don't give any newspaper (Israeli - and especially Palestinian) too much clout. I am capable of forming an opinion independently of newspaper editorials based on my own observations. I'm sure US newspapers have a number of views regarding Mr. Emanuel.
Ok so you don't give any newspaper too much clout. How about a long time serving Republican in the form of Senator Lindsey Graham who has had many dealings with Mr Emanuel. This is the exact statement made by Senator Graham today:

"This is a wise choice by President-elect Obama.

"Rahm knows Capitol Hill and has great political skills. He can be a tough partisan but also understands the need to work together. He is well-suited for the position of White House Chief of Staff.

"I worked closely with him during the presidential debate negotiations which were completed in record time. When we hit a rough spot, he always looked for a path forward. I consider Rahm to be a friend and colleague. He's tough but fair. Honest, direct, and candid. These qualities will serve President-elect Obama well.

"Rahm understands the challenges facing our nation and will, consistent with the agenda set by President-elect Obama, work to find common ground where it exists. I look forward to working with him in his new position and will continue to do everything I can to help find a pathway forward on the difficult problems facing our nation."

Republican Senator Lindsey Graham seems to totally contradict much of what has been said against Rahm Emanuel here by Sea Demon and others. :hmm: His comments also seem to suggest that President Elect Obama has shown wise judgement with this decision.

[Sea Demon]

Ok so you don't give any newspaper too much clout. How about a long time serving Republican in the form of Senator Lindsey Graham who has had many dealings with Mr Emanuel. This is the exact statement made by Senator Graham today:

Republican Senator Lindsey Graham seems to totally contradict much of what has been said against Rahm Emanuel here by Sea Demon and others. :hmm: His comments also seem to suggest that President Elect Obama has shown wise judgement with this decision.

Oh, so because I typically vote Republican, I have to agree with every opinion they make? At any rate, I don't see Senator Graham addressing his views here in relation to Emanuel's politics vs. Israeli security. Where is it? Not there, right? My own view of Emanuel comes from the fact that he's usually a big mouth who was largely silent when Clinton was inviting Arafat to the White House to discuss "regional security". We all know Israeli security certainly wasn't solidified by these talks. In fact more violence actually resulted for Israel. I have yet to see any statements from Emanuel condemning this approach. On the plus side, Rahm is a Clintonite....which means you can forget Obama taking the country extremely leftward. But nevertheless, he has shown me something that he follows the pattern of those who travel with the left in America. Ideology first.

[Sea Demon]

Secondly, I don't give any newspaper (Israeli - and especially Palestinian) too much clout. I am capable of forming an opinion independently of newspaper editorials based on my own observations. I'm sure US newspapers have a number of views regarding Mr. Emanuel.

I'm sure that the people directly concerned by Israel's security care more about Sea Demon's opinion based on observations of who knows what than about Israeli & Palestinian papers reporting facts ;)

Lord knows your own opinion is completely worthless to these people. I actually have a vote and say in American government. :smug:

It's no surprise you have no seeming appreciation for the ability to form opinion based on observation. It's apparent you wait for a newspaper to form one for you.

[AVGWarhawk]

Let call it a draw!;)

[Sea Demon]

Lord knows your opinion is completely worthless to these people. I actually have a vote and say in American government. :smug:

I was talking about the Israelis, stop being so full of yourself.

Anyway it highlights something I noted, republican hardliners most of the time think that they care more about Israel than anyone else in the universe. Had Obama picked Netanyahu they would still be moaning that democrats "don't care about security matters". Funny.

Israeli's do care who we put in the White House and the Congress. My vote does have an affect on their security. And I do support Israeli security. Has nothing to do with Party.

But how about you read people's comments, and try to comprehend what they're actually saying. Your pathetic attempt at mockery proves you bring nothing to the table. And your last paragraph shows me you have no clue into what Republican "hardliners" think "most of the time". I outlined specifically before many reasons Democrats have shown a particularly lackluster support for national security issues. And often show ideology as a primary concern. It's in actions and words. Seriously Mikhayl, it is you who have an inflated view of yourself. You have no idea what we believe over here. Like I told you in another thread, I was unimpressed with the average Frenchman's view of American politics when I was in Cannes. Some of these people thought they were up to speed on American politics because they saw Farenheit 9-11. :doh: No kidding. The so called new age "European Enlightenment" was not what I expected it to be. I was told by many newspapers that ignorance was largely an American trait. Then I went to Cannes and other parts of France and experienced it first hand. Your paragraphs above and your seeming hostility to independent thought are a caricature of what I heard there.

[AVGWarhawk]

Come on fellas, there is no way, shape or form we will change the world from a forum on the internet. Keep it cool :up:

[Sea Demon]

And I replied it's bollocks concerning Emanuel for a variety of reasons, so we'll have to disagree and leave it at that.

About Cannes, I don't know why you keep mentionning it, I live 800km from there and never been there, it's considered by most French as the most overrated city, only snubs go there for vacations. This city is well known for being populated by wealthy retired people, it's a city where the Front National ie the xenophobic far right makes some of its highest scores, so when you tell me you met uneducated hillbillies it's like telling me that fire burns. If you think Cannes is where you'll meet the "average Frenchman" (whatever that is) you're totally out of touch. Oh and since it seems to matter so much to you, I didn't see Fahrenheit and I couldn't be bothered. And yes the French "Lumieres" are long shut off, no news here either.

You have yet to show anything resembling a reason other than "newspapers don't agree". As though those sources have shown to be anything resembling integrity lately. And I went to several places in France, but Cannes is where I stayed for most of the time. I don't want to give the wrong impression though, I did meet some very nice French folks there who seemed bright. You do live in a beautiful country. But once a number of them started talking to me about American politics, that's where I saw some real ignorance on display.

And OK, we disagree on Emanuel. No problem there.

Edit: I agree with Mikhayl with his message to AVG. There! I found something to agree with you on. :) Have a good night Mikhayl.

[Sea Demon]

Well then Mikhayl, I'm not sure I made my point with you. I already said I know that there are newspapers with various views regarding Emanuel. I don't mind you posting those articles. I simply watched Emanuel during the Clinton administration when Clinton was selling out Israeli security for some proposed and very much hoped for "peace". Some of these proposals did not increase Israeli security and violence looked to be the end product. I have yet to see Emanuel as a rep. condemn these "proposals" even though they were not good for Israel. I have no doubt Emanuel has an affinity towards Israel. But his actions and lack of words on some of these events show me that he is first and foremost securing ideology against an allies security. Doesn't matter how many internet articles you post about the man. His actions and words (or lack thereof) are much greater indication of this. I don't need an opinion in a news article to tell me what opinion I should have of this guy.

I'm both worried about Israeli, and European security with this new administration in Washington. A little concern for our East Asian allies. Although I do believe Emanuel is a pretty tough guy. And I don't believe he wants Israel to be threatened. But like I said, he is more beholden to party and ideology by action and words. post a million articles. Wont change a thing. Only Emanuel through words and deeds can do that. Got it?

[Konovalov]

I was going to post the same material Mikhayl regarding Emanuel. :up: We will see in 4 years time if Sea Demon's concerns were with or without foundation. My view from all that I can find on Emanuel, be it his actions, his comments, the views of some Republicans, and indeed his fathers views is that the last thing he is going to do is sell out Israel.

All this makes even more ridiculous the comments by Joe the plumber when he agreed with a Republican supporter who said "I guarantee ya, a vote for Obama is a vote for the death of Israel." Tragic pre-election scaremongering that didn't work. Even Shep Smith from Fox News challenged Samuel Wurzelbacher during a Fox News interview. It really was cringe worthy stuff from the plumber. :down:

[AVGWarhawk]

I was going to post the same material Mikhayl regarding Emanuel. :up: We will see in 4 years time if Sea Demon's concerns were with or without foundation. My view from all that I can find on Emanuel, be it his actions, his comments, the views of some Republicans, and indeed his fathers views is that the last thing he is going to do is sell out Israel.

All this makes even more ridiculous the comments by Joe the plumber when he agreed with a Republican supporter who said "I guarantee ya, a vote for Obama is a vote for the death of Israel." Tragic pre-election scaremongering that didn't work. Even Shep Smith from Fox News challenged Samuel Wurzelbacher during a Fox News interview. It really was cringe worthy stuff from the plumber. :down:

Yeah, Joe needs to stick to plumbing. My concern here with Emanuel was not over Israel. It is over the fact that he does not work across the isle and can be very nasty. I do not see Emanuel as part of any change and working in across the isle.

[August]

All this makes even more ridiculous the comments by Joe the plumber when he agreed with a Republican supporter who said "I guarantee ya, a vote for Obama is a vote for the death of Israel." Tragic pre-election scaremongering that didn't work. Even Shep Smith from Fox News challenged Samuel Wurzelbacher during a Fox News interview. It really was cringe worthy stuff from the plumber. :down:

The guy is not a political operative, he's just a plumber as you point out. Half the stuff said on this board would also qualify as cringe worthy, but I don't see national media flocking to interview the people who posted it or dig into their backgrounds to see what dirt they can find.

[Sea Demon]

Articles are not just pieces of (virtual) paper, if you read you'll see they tell about facts and actions, while so far you just offered opinion.
Now, care to provide examples of Emanuel putting his party before Israel's security instead of just repeating that he does ?

Articles are merely opinion pieces in and of themselves. They also ignore facts about circumstances if it doesn't portray what they want to portray. These pieces never discuss Emanuel's silence when Clinton was giving concessions to the terrorist Yasser Arafat and what became of that. More violence for Israeli citizens. Less security for their nation. Sometimes you just have to look at people's actions and words and form your own opinions. Is independent thought becoming a lost art on your continent?

I already told you that it was my opinion. The fact that I'm not on an editorial board of a newspaper room means nothing. There's a reason newspapers are dying......at least here in America. Because they selectively display "facts" to form opinions. Like Konovalov said, we'll see in the future if my own personal concerns were with or without foundation. And for the record, I hope I'm wrong. But from what I see, regarding Emanuel's lack of any words of condemnation for the actions of a previous Democrat administration that directly set the environment for more violence for Israel, gives me a pretty good idea that ideology for him, party loyalty indeed, came in that instance before the national security of one of our allies in that region. I do praise Mr. Emanuel for his support for the Iraq War. Don't know too much about his current outlook on that though. We'll see.

[Sea Demon]

The guy is not a political operative, he's just a plumber as you point out. Half the stuff said on this board would also qualify as cringe worthy, but I don't see national media flocking to interview the people who posted it or dig into their backgrounds to see what dirt they can find.

Bingo!!:up:

[Konovalov]

The guy is not a political operative, he's just a plumber as you point out. Half the stuff said on this board would also qualify as cringe worthy, but I don't see national media flocking to interview the people who posted it or dig into their backgrounds to see what dirt they can find.

Bingo!!:up:
Yet he was recruited by the McCain campaign and was up front and centre at some of McCain's rallies, appeared on almost every show on the Fox News channel (Hannity and Colmes, Your World with Neil Cavuto, Fox and Friends, On the Record with Greta van Sust), some of them multiple times such as Hannity and Neil Cavuto. In effect he was a political operative for the McCain capaign. So I have to disagree with ya on that one. :)

Some of Joe the Plumber as a Fox News pundit on issues such as economics and Obama's supposed questionable loyalty to the US:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrBrj2P0nv0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4m0uPmEiHg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xw2Wczp9yOc

But back to the topic. I agree with AVG Warhawk and share his concern regarding Rahm Emanuel and his partisan past. But as I have clearly expressed earlier I don't see anyting to worry about regarding Israel's security during an Obama presidency. Once again, time will confirm if any of my or your fears have any foundation.