Marine motorcycle deaths top their Iraq combat fatalities

[Onkel Neal]

Motorcycle accidents have killed more Marines in the past 12 months than enemy fire in Iraq, a rate that's so alarming it has prompted top brass to call a meeting to address the issue, officials say.
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2008/US/10/30/marine.motorcycles/art.marine.family.jpg
Despite crashes, Gunnery Sgt. Art Tucker rides a sport motorcycle. "I enjoy it. ... It relaxes me," he says.


http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/.element/img/2.0/mosaic/base_skins/baseplate/corner_wire_BL.gif


Twenty-five Marines have died in motorcycle crashes since last November -- all but one of them involving sport bikes that can reach speeds of well over 100 mph, according to Marine officials. In that same period, 20 Marines have been killed in action in Iraq.
The 25 deaths are the highest motorcycle death toll ever for the Marine Corps.
Gen. James Amos, the assistant commandant of the Marine Corps, told CNN that commanders are trying to drill down on what "we need to do to help our Marines survive on these sport bikes."


Full article
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/10/30/marine.motorcycles/index.html


Marines, slow down!

Neal

[SteamWake]

This is what happens when you put unreasonably fast machines in the hands of bored young people.

Pretty tragic really.

[Skybird]

Anything known on these Marine'S history of service in warzones? If so, there could be more to it than just "bored young men".

[Digital_Trucker]

Anything known on these Marine'S history of service in warzones? If so, there could be more to it than just "bored young men".

People on sport bikes (or in automobiles for that matter) killing themselves on American highways is hardly limited to soldiers (combat experienced or not). It is a national pastime. :nope:

[FIREWALL]

If they were being killed in Iraq on motorcycles there might be something to it.

Here at home their just part of the statistics.


Sad but true.

[Letum]

This is what happens when you put unreasonably fast machines in the hands of bored young people.
It's what happens when car drivers pull out because they didn't see any other cars.
It's what happens when people assume that because a car couldn't fit in their blind
spot, their blind spot is clear.
It's what happens when someone can't judge the speed of a bike with only one
headlight as reference.

Not all motorcyclists are victims, but don't assume or suggest we are all
unreasonable or have death wishes; what ever the performance of the bike driven.

DigitalT: People get killed on bikes. They are not "killing themselves" on bikes.

[FIREWALL]

STAY ON TOPIC !!! :arrgh!:

[Letum]

The topic isn't about motorcycle death statistics? :o

[FIREWALL]

It's about why 25 Marines died on motorcycles.

And why Marine brass think it's strange.


Jeez just read Neal's post . Take your time.

[Letum]

Pfft!
Even Nicholas Parsons would not claim I was deviating that much.


although I might be now...

[Digital_Trucker]

DigitalT: People get killed on bikes. They are not "killing themselves" on bikes.
I'll grant you that not all folks killed on bikes are killing themselves. Just like anything else, it's the idiots that stand out in the crowd. I can agree with many of the reasons that you mentioned for motorcyclists getting killed. I can certainly relate to them since I rode (daily, to work and back) for 20 years in a metropolitan area and spent most of my riding time dodging the idiots.

However, I can also tell you that plenty motorcycle riders are, indeed, killing themselves. I see it every time I get out of the house and watch the brain-dead bozo that cuts in front of my wife and I with 3 or 4 feet to spare at 70 miles an hour and slams on the brakes and waves his buddies over in front of him into the HOV lane and then flips us off because she blows the horn at him. I saw it for years on the road when some clown doing 120 mph tries to squeeze between 2 tractor-trailers because they don't want to wait and going 70 wasn't fast enough.

But this type of stupidity isn't anything limited to motorcyclists. It is practiced day in and day out by "drivers" of all types. Even train drivers:nope:

[Letum]

Your certainly right there.

[Hitman]

We have a say here in Spain that goes like "Life are four days" meaning life is short and you must make good use of it. My father used to tell me when I bought my first motorbike: "Life are four days, and if you are a motorcycle rider then it's just two" :huh:

Marines are young, many of them not married, and with good pay saved from months-long stay on farther lands. When they come back they can buy expensive, fast machines, and risk is not a big deal for someone who is used to enemy fire. No wonder that this cocktail results in so many accidents with fatal results.

[Letum]

Despite crashes, Gunnery Sgt. Art Tucker rides a sport motorcycle. "I enjoy it. ... It relaxes me," he says.
Any kind of on-road driving is not a good way to relax.

Never drive angry.
Never use the throttle as stress relief.
Never relax when driving. If you are relaxed, you are not prepared.
Never drive on adrenaline or to get adrenaline.

All that doesn't mean you can't still enjoy a drive out, but it's not sport on roads.
Same goes for cars and bikes.


Of course, track days are another kettle of fish. :D

[Skybird]

The question is, and that'S how I understood it, wether or not the number of marines killed on motorcycles is statisticalaccumulation that is anormal, or fits into the general data on traffic accidents. One would assume that if Marines of this or that age group form x percent of the overall group of male bikers of that age in the US, then their representation in the acident statistics would roughly match that value. If they are overrepresented and that is not by random fluctuation, but is statistical signficance (you do calculate that in statistics), then there is more to it. Wether it be that their profession makes them more accepting towards taking risks, or is so stressing that they seek relaxation by pushing too far, or - and thus my question - post-war stress has bred an unconscious drive to test life, test their limits, and ultimately test death itself.

[August]

Skybird as usual misses the point.

A Marine friend of mine and Iraq war veteran spells it out better than I could:

My unit (900 men) suffered more deaths in 4 months in 2005 than the entire US Marine Corps (190,000 men) in the last 12 months. Combat isn't even the most likely thing to kill us anymore. We're *********g winning