T-34 vs. Tiger review is up!

[Onkel Neal]

http://www.tanksim.com/images3/tklogo5c.gif
LINK: T-34 vs. Tiger (http://www.tanksim.com/reviews/t34vstiger.htm)


See ya on the battlefield!
Neal


http://www.tanksim.com/images/t34vst23.jpg

[Skybird]

Nice review, bringing forward a round and well-summarised impression, Neal.

But I would like to know a couple of additional things:

-How does the editor handle, what can it achieve?

-Map editor?

-Ballistics - do they feel correct (projectiles follow an arch, lose kinetic energy over the range), or like lasers?

-Starforce, Securom, or different CP?

-How is the infantry?

-Is there an air element, if so, what and how effective?

-Is there artillery, and arty barrages?

- how big are the maps?

- how many units can participate in battle?

- Modability, and policy of the company on it?

[Onkel Neal]

Thanks, good questions, I'll try to answer them.

-How does the editor handle, what can it achieve? I don't know, there was no how-to or guide for the editor on my DVD. It's a stand alone program. I looked at it but I don't know where to start with it. Normally I would OPEN an exisiting mission and start experimenting, I was not able to make that work. I asked for more info, and I assume if an editor is on the game disk, it will be something that works.

-Map editor? Not sure if the mission editor can do this also, perhaps.

-Ballistics - do they feel correct (projectiles follow an arch, lose kinetic energy over the range), or like lasers? Yes, they do replicate an arc, and the longer the distance, the more pronouced the arc. I think this part will satisfy you. Not sure about the kinetic energy! How would one measure that? If it takes more hits to damage a target at disstance?

-Starforce, Securom, or different CP? It has Starforce Plus and Securom Lockdown Edition...just kidding. I don't know, and they PR rep has not replied to my question.

-How is the infantry? To expand on what I said in the review, the infanty appear to be window dressings. There are men marching here and there, running about in the field of battle, and manning anti-tank guns, but I did not get the impression they added to the gameplay. I kept a sharp eye out for Tom Hanks and his "sticky-bombs" but he never showed. :p

-Is there an air element, if so, what and how effective? I was about to state in my review that air power was absent when I heard two roaring sounds from inside my tank that did not sound familar. When I came up and looked around there went to fighters! But, I don't think they add to the gameplay, just to add to the impression of a combined forces battlefield. The editor shows ths game includes the IL-2 and FW-190 planes.

-Is there artillery, and arty barrages? I did encounter some barrages but they may have been from enemy tanks.

- how big are the maps? I'm told 80 sq km is the max. I think the mission areas were probably 20 miles x 20 miles or so. There are times where you have to drive 15 miles from point A to B. Estimate, of course.

- how many units can participate in battle? MP hold 16 people; Single mssions had 20-40 discreet units, including tanks, infantry, trucks, and field pieces.

- Modability, and policy of the company on it? TBD

thx
Neal

[Boats]

Did you peruse the game files? And if so is it your impression this game is modable like SH4? Or even setup to be expanded by the developers at a later date?

If this is like IL2 we could be talking a game with a lifespan of 10 years or more. Of course it must be ten years since the last good WW2 tank sim came out. I'm getting psyched for some turret talk again.

[Onkel Neal]

I did, but I'm not the right person to ask about modding. My modding days ended after SH2, just have not had time to keep up with it. I think if the game sells decently, the publisher/developers would be very wise to support this game with upgrades to the AI and more missions/campaigns. I did not see too many bugs/glitches that require patching (of course, 1000 players will find some when the game hits stores :cool: ).

[Skybird]

Thanks, Neal, one last question that I forgot: is smoke playing a role in any way? I mean does it hinder the view when a tank nearby already is burning, or a house? I take from your answers above that the dirt and smoke from artillery is not there, since you only faced minor artillery (if it were not the tanks as you mentioned).

By your editor screenshot I see it seems to be an object editor. Or is that the mission editor already?

On the copy protection, a customer in their forum said this:

As far as i can tell its purely a cdkey - game works without DVD in the drive and there was no online activation afaik.

[Visse]

Hi, I'm going to buy this baby tomorrow, but there are still some questions bothering my mind. Is the damage model realistic and how are the tanks balanced in the game or are they working like their historic counterparts? After all the comparison between T-34 and Tiger is a bit unfair because Tiger could kill T-34 virtually from any distance available for KWK-gun.

I'm looking foward to hear from you! :up:

[Incendiary Lemon]

I'd note that this is G5's first Tank Sim. Balkans on Fire was developed by the crew who are now at Graviteam.

[Onkel Neal]

Thanks, IL, I have trouble keeping these guys straight :cool: What did the Balkans on Fire team call themselves when they worked on it? Crazy House? There are so many developers and publishers involved with these game... :doh: I've corrected the text in the review.

Ok, the awesomeness continues. I logged into TS and learned a great about the T-34 vs Tiger community/developer relationship from Fivetide. According to him, the players who were working with the G5 dev team stressed the work should go toward the tank models, AI, and MP, and that they would take the reins on mission creation. That's very encouraging to hear, and I will update the review with a note to that effect from Fivetide.

Neal

[VirT]

Hi guys,
-How does the editor handle, what can it achieve?
-Map editor?
Editor.exe is a very powerfull tool for creating and changing missions.
But all mission logic into scritps. For example, for first russian mission it is script "Missions\Campaign_1\Mission_1\Mission.script". You can create self game if will uderstand how they are working.
For opening existing mission you should run Editor.exe and then check File->Load Level->Some level
You can play in the game into Editor. Just check "From player unit view mode" bottom of the window and press "NumLock".
As I know Lesson1 by creating self mission has translate now.
And you can change a landscape in the Editor.
>Is the damage model realistic and how are the tanks balanced in the game >or are they working like their historic counterparts?
They work like their historic counterparts. Tiger is more powerfull then T34. But T34 is faster.

[Skybird]

Thanks for shedding some light on it, VirT. And welcome here!

[Onkel Neal]

Re: MP
Well, the MP worked well enough last week when I set up a game with Magnum, but we are now finding a lot of problems with it. For example, there were 6 of us trying to get a TEAM game started, for some reason some of us could not join... so, bear this in mind. MP may not work as advertised. I have revised my review.

Neal

[Edward]

I just downloaded and installed it today. It installed flawlessly and runs really well on my system. Very stable, no crashes at all. Good FPS also. The graphics are superb, and the gameplay is really a blast. I'm having a lot of fun figuring out the Tiger sight optics (7 pages of manual about this). I haven't tried the multiplayer yet but I think Neal's review is right on. I'd give it an 83%. The only thing it really needs is some more single player missions. I'll fire up the editor and see what can be done about that.
FYI, in the download there was something about a patch for GameSpy Multiplayer, but I haven't tried that yet.
IMHO the Russians did a great job with this one. Best WWII Tank Sim yet done. Hopefully making more missions for it will be easy.

Edward

[Onkel Neal]

Let me know how you come along with the editor, Edward. If we could make a couple dozen quality missions, that would help this game a lot.

As for the MP, I hope Gamespy helps, but I am not expecting it. I knocked 3 points off my review for the problems with MP.

[stabiz]

This game is getting trashed over at the Lighthouse forums.:cry:

[Onkel Neal]

Yeah, that's too bad but under the circumstance, understandable. If the game had shipped with 6 campaigns of 10 missions each, and say 25 single missions, and no MP, it would have fared much better. But to claim MP and a.) it barely works and b.) the publisher and dev team opt for the Federal Witness Protection Program = bad.

It is a good game, not bad at all, just missing two essential ingredients. Sort of like life without air and water.

[HunterICX]

Let's hope the Devs/Publisher fix the MP issue with a Patch
and the community to fix the lack of missions.:yep:

I guess we'll have to give it some time to take shape, and lets hope the results will be positive.

HunterICX

[Skybird]

Now I have been patient for long enough. Guys, a tanker'S joy can be acchieved so easily:

Tatarataaa...

Get SBP, and you're done - quality sim experience assured.

...rattattataaaaa....

So, now I feel relieved. Sometimes a man must say what a man has to say! :D



Edit:
P.S. If you disable gunner's primary sights for all tanks, AI and players must use the secondaries, which are purely optical and in principle the same like in WWII. Use T72 and Leopard-1s, and equip them with oldest ammunition types available that are not as lethal as later ones.

[HunterICX]

Now I have been patient for long enough. Guys, a tanker'S joy can be acchieved so easily:

Tatarataaa...

Get SBP, and you're done - quality sim experience assured.

...rattattataaaaa....

So, now I feel relieved. Sometimes a man must say what a man has to say! :D

Sorry, I dont fancy modern tanks ;)
all the electronic systems in it and nice gadgets.
I'm a World War 2 nutcase so to speak :p

HunterICX

[Skybird]

Now I have been patient for long enough. Guys, a tanker'S joy can be acchieved so easily:

Tatarataaa...

Get SBP, and you're done - quality sim experience assured.

...rattattataaaaa....

So, now I feel relieved. Sometimes a man must say what a man has to say! :D

Sorry, I dont fancy modern tanks ;)
all the electronic systems in it and nice gadgets.
I'm a World War 2 nutcase so to speak :p

HunterICX
Have you read my P.S. ? No laser range finder. No Thermals. No ballistic computer. Range estimation via optical sights only. Indeed the secondary sights of the Leopards are the same design in principle like the german TZF in WWII. No electronics. You must not wait for them getting knocked out by enemy fire. you can disable all that in the mission editor, or volunatrily inside the tank. You can even move the turret via handcranks, if that pleases you. Then it is just you, your gun and your Diesel. :D

P.S. And this in Neal's review thread - sorry Neal! :) I should have chosen the other TvT thread.

[Enigma65]

b.) the publisher and dev team opt for the Federal Witness Protection Program = bad.

So am I to assume that the publisher and/or the developer have not responded at all to the current customer's concern's regarding the problems found with the game? Either one has said nothing?

Edit: Never mind. I found my answer in another thread. Simply shameful.

[AVGWarhawk]

Has anyone located this game in the US yet?

[Skybird]

Has anyone located this game in the US yet?
It is not available in the US. You can order it on their website from foreign places, which will cost you $US 49.

You may want to consider waiting for SF and compare the feedback, or wait until (if) they release a patch and then check what it does, and what their future support perspective is. To say that TvT has been greeted with mixed welcomes would mean to express the truth in a polite fashion. Currently my impression is such that I would not recommend to buy it.

[Onkel Neal]

P.S. And this in Neal's review thread - sorry Neal! :) I should have chosen the other TvT thread.

No worries, mate. :ping:

[HunterICX]

You may want to consider waiting for SF and compare the feedback, or wait until (if) they release a patch and then check what it does, and what their future support perspective is. To say that TvT has been greeted with mixed welcomes would mean to express the truth in a polite fashion. Currently my impression is such that I would not recommend to buy it.

My idea to purchase TvT is currently on Halt, I wait if there is any hope for a patch that can fix the game.
but now my eyes is layed down on SF and lets hope it will be better, have to deal with the fact it hasnt got a MP, let's hope the SP makes up for that fact.

HunterICX

[AVGWarhawk]

Has anyone located this game in the US yet? It is not available in the US. You can order it on their website from foreign places, which will cost you $US 49.

You may want to consider waiting for SF and compare the feedback, or wait until (if) they release a patch and then check what it does, and what their future support perspective is. To say that TvT has been greeted with mixed welcomes would mean to express the truth in a polite fashion. Currently my impression is such that I would not recommend to buy it.

Thanks for the heads up Skybird. I'm not a big fan of downloading large games to my hard drive. I much prefer the disc. I will keep an eye on it for possible patch, etc.

[HEMISENT]

Having read Neal's review and in the hopes that, A: the devs will magically re-appear and, B: they will come up with a patch, I ordered my copy from Amazon this afternoon.

Been waiting for a good tank sim for a long time and ...
Oh well, I guess I can always go back to SH3.

[Boats]

I've noticed Gogamer has knocked $10.00 of the game already.

[nikimcbee]

Has anyone located this game in the US yet?

I saw it at fryes for $39. Rocky may be getting me a christmas present???

I almost bought it today.