Stupid C2 -- Torpedo sponges!

[Nangleator]

My stock SHIII patrols are starting to get a little stale, despite the ratcheting tension of falling behind the allies' technology curve. (Into late '42 for the first time.)

My best patrols go like this... Head out, dive a few times to avoid planes. (Not pairs of Hurricanes anymore, but whole wings of bombers, apparently.) My best patrols are in winter, so the nights are long and the weather is good. I've come close to running out of deck gun ammo, and I rarely miss. I've run up 7 or 8 kills just with the gun before. Then the weather gets bad enough that I have to use torpedoes. (The weather never improves, once it goes bad.) A C2 comes along. I send two eels into it. Both hit, but the speed doesn't even seem to drop. I send a third right away, and it misses, or is a dud. I aim the fourth more carefully. Hit. Ship slows down. I pull away to a safe distance while reloading.

Tick tock, tick tock. Ship no sinkee. More coups de grace until it breaks in half. I typically use 5 or 6 to bring down one C2. In one case, it took 10 torpedoes. (Cargo of helium-filled ping-pong balls, maybe?) I finish what started as a stellar patrol with about 10 ships, all but one or two small.

I'm considering ignoring the C2s from now on.

[kylania]

I'll usually let it sit for an hour or two if it's obvious she's listing or slowing down or something. I had one cargo ship the other night. I hit it with one torpedo and it didn't slow down from 12kts. Since it wasn't slowing, I plotted it's direction, headed in front of it and got into position again. Sure enough it was no longer zig zagging as it neared me, but 3 minutes before I would fire again at it it sunk. Two hours after first being hit.

[papa_smurf]

Hit it with a couple of torpedoes, then surface, man the deck gun and finish it off!:arrgh!:

[Kipparikalle]

You really don't need that many torps' for one C2, just put an eel under the smoke chimney, under the keel. And it probaly will either blow in half, or knock out its engines.

[Nangleator]

I know, the 10-torpedo thing was a comedy of errors. It was rough seas and heavy fog, which contributed somewhat. I probably had 3 duds/misses/bad hits, and the rest was impatience.

I've discovered I tend to hit farther aft than I aim in rough water, but I'll shoot for the stack if I'm tempted again.

[Murr44]

I'll usually let it sit for an hour or two if it's obvious she's listing or slowing down or something. I had one cargo ship the other night. I hit it with one torpedo and it didn't slow down from 12kts. Since it wasn't slowing, I plotted it's direction, headed in front of it and got into position again. Sure enough it was no longer zig zagging as it neared me, but 3 minutes before I would fire again at it it sunk. Two hours after first being hit.

I had a similar experience last night with a large merchant. I hit her with one torpedo set to 9m. My next 2 shots (impact fuses) bounced harmlessly away.:damn: She started to list and zig zag but showed no signs of slowing down for several minutes. I had to follow her for several minutes at flank speed (real strain on the batteries) She finally slowed to 3kts & I got perpendicular to her for a stern shot. This one started a big fire but she stayed afloat, dead in the water. I turned around & launched 1 last shot set to 9.5m. That did the trick. It cost me 5 torpedoes but there was no way that I was going to surface & engage her with the deck gun. One well aimed shot from her & I'd have been blown apart: I have over 115,000 tons in this career & I want that RK before BDU transfers me ashore...:D

[bookworm_020]

Aim just forward of the bridge with an eel set to impact at 5 meters seems to do the trick when I've played stock in the past. I find the C3's to be the worse for number of torpedo's needed.:doh:

[Nangleator]

Wow, C3s? They fall apart at a touch for me.

Last night, on my way through BF42 outbound, I hear a 2-ship convoy. Turns out to be a T3 in front of a C2. I've only seen T3s in convoys, and not many at that. I may never have hit one before.

I send an eel to each and wait for the fireworks from the big ship. Tiny fire starts forward, but no other change. I send him another. The C2 is slowing now, so I ignore it. Second hit on the tanker is aft. No fireworks. By this time, I have to go under because they're zigging and the tanker is getting close.

In external view, it looks like I'm under a steel iceberg. It was alarming.

I think it took me 4 or 5 eels to sink the tanker and only one other to get rid of the C2, aiming for the stack.

T3 is the new C2? Maybe he was carrying olive oil or something.

[Kipparikalle]

Yeah, the C3's are like balloons, really. I once hit it with an eel 2 meters under the waterline, meter behind the chimney. And it sunk in couple of minutes.


But how come I still haven't come across on heavy tankers, not under enemy flag (as neutrals, a lot)
Even visited the legendary "tankervalley"

[predavolk]

99% of ships will sink with two well-placed torpedoes. About 40% sink with one. It's a very rare ship (of any size) that requires 3 torpedoes. 4+ is overkill. Remember that in GWX most ships are lost because they sink, not because they are destroyed. So:

1- Bow shots are generally viewed as the most effective. The momentum of the ship drives it under water.

2- Stern shots can be effective, as the stern is usually lower than the bow, and so floods more easily. Midship shots are the least effective.

3- Shots will off-set each other. E.g., a port bow shot will correct the lean of a starboard bow shot. Better to make a second stardboard bow shot slightly further back. This is much more effective. Same with bow-stern shots (although you might be able to get the ship to lean to one side).

4- Smoke-stack shots tend to stop the ship without sinking it, unless you use magnetics. Then sometimes, you break the back of the ship. The exception are ships with volatile cargo, that sometimes blow up when hit midships (e.g., tankers, ammo, ore).

5- Larger, thinner ships are easier to sink. Use length/thickness as a your best indicator of how easy it is to sink. E.g., large merchant, ore carrier, are easier to sink than a medium cargo, or sometimes, even a small cargo. You'd have better luck sinking a cruiser with one torpedo than a liberty cargo.

6- For most shots, impact work as well or better than magnetics. Magnetics sometimes give you a back-breaking shot, but they can easily malfunction.

7- Homing torps tend to damage the props, but they can sink ships if you shoot them from a side or forward angle. Rear shots are much less effective (against cargo ships, against escorts any homing torp is crippling or lethal).

8- It may be obvious, but get up close for more accurate shooting. Use faster steam settings when possible. Both minimize the impact of targeting errors.

9- The deckgun is great for finishing off ships, but by late-war (44-45), big merchants have 3-4 large guns and 4-8 small guns. Basically, they're destroyers+, so they are extremely dangerous to engage (only done it once on a twice-hit, almost sunk, Victory cargo in my XXI- and I lost my deck officer!). The best gun technique is to get close, parellel, in front of the merchant. Emergency surface, and hammer away. Keep its stack between you and the larger rear guns. Fire like hell from 1,000M where you can still hit below the waterline. Submerge after no more than 10-15 hits (10 if damaged).

10- Don't rush your shots. Impatience is the biggest reason for my missed shots. Better to back off and set up again, unless the ship is travelling too fast for you to do so, or you won't get another change (e.g., convoy attack).

Hope those hints help!

[Nangleator]

Okay, hit at the ends... I didn't know that. And I've been trying to do magnetic back-breakers all along. I'll go for 90° impacts from now on.

I do shoot from close. I'm impatient, I guess, waiting for them to sink.

That tanker was listing so far at the end that the last eel I sent hit her deck. (She'd been like that for a half hour. I suppose she would have sunk on her own, if I had waited.)

[Jimbuna]

If you bring a ship to a halt (usually by hitting her in the engine room) and there are no signs of her carrying weapons....surface and place a few well aimed deckgun shells just below the waterline along the length of the ship.

[Nangleator]

Okay, I'm great with the deck gun and love using it. LOVE using it. I'd never bring any ammo home, if I had a choice. I'd never fire a torpedo until the deck gun ammo is gone, but the stupid weather in stupid stock SHIII won't let me!

Summer time is horrible. Endless rain, heavy fog, 15-meter/sec wind, and all that starts as soon as I have deep water under me. Winter is much better, but once the wind blows, it doesn't stop.

I downloaded a weather fix and got part way through the convoluted installation. I guess I'll have to finish that up.

[Jimbuna]

Okay, I'm great with the deck gun and love using it. LOVE using it. I'd never bring any ammo home, if I had a choice. I'd never fire a torpedo until the deck gun ammo is gone, but the stupid weather in stupid stock SHIII won't let me!

Summer time is horrible. Endless rain, heavy fog, 15-meter/sec wind, and all that starts as soon as I have deep water under me. Winter is much better, but once the wind blows, it doesn't stop.

I downloaded a weather fix and got part way through the convoluted installation. I guess I'll have to finish that up.

Or download GWX2.1....with the weather fix already incorporated. http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/thumbsup.gif

[Nangleator]

Sadly, my system can't handle the more hefty graphics demands. I'll definitely use it once I upgrade.

[barkhorn45]

Last night i was 125 km off of gibralter at night in appalling condition's ie 15 m winds heavy rain and seas with a visibility of 400 m.detected a west bound 3 ship convoy aproaching.Was at 20 m using my "mine"technique[dubbed that by someone on this forum].
The first ship i indentified[when i could finally see it]as a french armed trawler.The following mer.were a med.and small merchant.I decided to concentrate on the med.
Just as i was about to fire it faded from view so i fired blindly and was awarded with 2 hit's and I approuched to get a visual of it's sinking.
Now this is the strange part,after a time it came to a complete stop on my map but in the attack scope and on the attack map it showed that it was doing 7 knts?
The target info on the att.map[i don't use manual,yet] gave a calculation based on 7 knts even though it was plain to see she was dead in the water and listing heavily to port!
The tdc on the attack scope showed 7 knts also.so i went around and lined up my stern tubes straight at the mer.at 400 m.just as i fired i came under attack!That damned trawler had somehow found me in those rotten conditions and attacked me!I ordered crash dive and looked around as we went down but could not see the traweler.Good navigating on his part and my lookouts did't warn me.
but the torp.hit and she went down faster than i did,my reward was a 4700 ton ship and 72% hull integrety
But it the fact my tdc showed she was doing 7 kts.when she was dead in the water that bewilders me.

[Erich dem Roten]

Yes, as mentioned, bow shots seem to be the best, and if one doesn't do it hit it again in the bow or risk counter-flooding for their DC team. I forget how stock works, but I know in GWX it's much more common to sink a ship by flooding the bow or stern rather than punching holes along one side and waiting for the list to become too great.

However, in GWX I've found those Medium Cargoes to be damn near invincible...I usually don't even bother with them unless I'm bored.

[predavolk]

However, in GWX I've found those Medium Cargoes to be damn near invincible...I usually don't even bother with them unless I'm bored.

I think I might have sunk one or two medium cargoes with a single torp, but I've sunk dozens with two torps. The damage model sometimes makes them blow up, but a bow, and near-bow hit will bring them down just as easily. They are a two-torp ship in my book though, so I will pass them up for, say, a large cargo or merchant. Again, think of the length/width ratio. Medium cargo ships aren't that big, but they are very broad.

[Wolfehunter]

I know, the 10-torpedo thing was a comedy of errors. It was rough seas and heavy fog, which contributed somewhat. I probably had 3 duds/misses/bad hits, and the rest was impatience.

I've discovered I tend to hit farther aft than I aim in rough water, but I'll shoot for the stack if I'm tempted again.Don't feel bad. I've been their and done that.;) I've spent so many torpedos because of duds misses and premature ejac... I mean explosions hehehe.:rotfl: Don't get me started on the bad hits.

I almost had a mutiny when my crew was getting ticked off.:arrgh!:

[joe313]

However, in GWX I've found those Medium Cargoes to be damn near invincible...I usually don't even bother with them unless I'm bored.

I agree its very hard to sink a Medium Cargoe it takes me 2 to 3 torpedos to sink one i rather sink a large merchant with one

[meduza]

I agree its very hard to sink a Medium Cargoe it takes me 2 to 3 torpedos to sink one i rather sink a large merchant with one
:hmm:
Never took me more than two torpedoes to sink a Medium cargo... and I sank more than a few. One to the bow, one below the chimney and she goes down. Sometimes she sank after only one hit to the bow, but it takes time.