Will over-clocking kill my comp?

[CptGrayWolf]

Ok guys, I finaly got my hands of SH4 :rock: but it's running very slowly :damn: and I'm guessing my CPU is the problem.
I have an AMD Athlon XP 2700+ 2.16 GHz
In my bios I notice I have a choice
2700+(currently set)
3200+
and user define.
I have zero knowledge in overclocking and I'm also not interested in doing it if my comp's life span will be cut in half (or something like this).

So what do you guys think, how exactly do I overclock and will it reduce the CPU's lifespan?

[Lexandro]

Ok guys, I finaly got my hands of SH4 :rock: but it's running very slowly :damn: and I'm guessing my CPU is the problem.
I have an AMD Athlon XP 2700+ 2.16 GHz
In my bios I notice I have a choice
2700+(currently set)
3200+
and user define.
I have zero knowledge in overclocking and I'm also not interested in doing it if my comp's life span will be cut in half (or something like this).

So what do you guys think, how exactly do I overclock and will it reduce the CPU's lifespan?
Overclocking is a serious buisness and shoudnt be taken lightly and in such a manner. If you REALLY want to learn to overclock I suggest you check out EOCF.COM and follow the first google link. In there your will find countless guides on how to go about learning to OC and what to expect when you do so and a general level of performance that can be attained.

To be brutally honest its time for a new rig imo. Current dual-core tech prices are at an all time low, it coudnt be a better time to build a new rig yourself. If you have the brain power to work out how to fire a fish manually in SH3/4 then you can build your own rig easy peasy. Its no harder than mechano, it just requires a small bit of technical knowledge

[Orion2012]

Ok guys, I finaly got my hands of SH4 :rock: but it's running very slowly :damn: and I'm guessing my CPU is the problem.
I have an AMD Athlon XP 2700+ 2.16 GHz
In my bios I notice I have a choice
2700+(currently set)
3200+
and user define.
I have zero knowledge in overclocking and I'm also not interested in doing it if my comp's life span will be cut in half (or something like this).

So what do you guys think, how exactly do I overclock and will it reduce the CPU's lifespan?

Overclocking your CPU requires changing the voltage and the multipliers to achieve the effect.

The better the cooling the better the results and the more you can push it. Insufficient cooling will begin to cause total crashes and could result in burning the chip altogether.

[Lord Kelvin]

If you don't know what you're doing, it's best not to mess with the thing, since you'll risk damaging or even destroying several parts in your computer, if not the entire thing. It requires a lot of research to understand how overclocking works, and even investment in hardware sometimes.

The site that my brother uses is www.ocforums.com so if you want to get serious about overclocking, might want to head there and do a bit of reading.

[Nicolas]

I've overclocked my video card 50% and 4% the system :arrgh!: SH4 from 18 FPS to 30.
There is 2 main things about OC i think: temperature is everything but... no matter the temperature level, your hardware have limits, some cards allows a lot of OC and other little or none. Read a lot in those web sites and be careful, good luck.

[Arclight]

I'd look into overclocking your graphics card first. OC on the CPU will probably only allow you to run higher TC smoothly. :hmm:

What card are you using?

If you OC CPU I think you wouldn't gain more then 2 or 3 FPS, lot more to be gained with the GPU IMHO.

[Rockin Robbins]

Let's consider if you were able to increase the speed from 2700 to 3200+. Even at that ideal result, the game is going to run imperceptibly faster. I changed from a 3200+ to an Opteron 175 dual processor and only had modest (but very worthwhile) improvements. I recommend either replacing the processor or motherboard.

On the other hand, if you are looking at that for your eventual move anyway, then what's the harm of harm to your microprocessor? I'd say it's time to learn overclocking! Insane speed ahead! You have nothing to lose but a worthless processor.

I am assuming you can afford to upgrade, of course.

[CaptainHaplo]

9 times out of 10 the game running slowly is not due to cpu horsepower. What video card are you using? How much RAM do you have in your system - and running what OS? These pieces of information are very important.

I would HIGHLY advise against OC'ing the cpu at this point. Its probably not going to net you what you want - ie: a substantial increase in performance. People already have talked about the importance of tempature and hardware limitations when it comes to OC'ing - but honestly the biggest rule of thumb for an overclocker is make sure your doing what your doing for the right reason. If you just wanted to have bragging rights that your getting more cycles - then I would say ok - but in this case you are looking to gain a performance increase - and its very unlikely that the CPU is the bottleneck.

Most of the time with games like SH4, the graphics is the first place to look at when you have performance issues. Easy test - turn down the resolution, turn off all the eye candy, then run it. See a significant increase in the way it runs? Then guess what - the CPU isnt the issue. Its time to look into replacing the GPU first.

Now, lets say you get only minimal increases - then look at your memory specs. If your running Vista for example - the OS itself should have 1G RAM, so if this is meant to be a "game" machine - then it should have 2G in it at least using Vista. XP also runs alot better when you go from 1 to 2 Gigs of memory.

Now, with all that said, the CPU you are using is older. It is however more than adequate to running SH4 without issue provided it has the supporting equipment it needs.

Given the comment of your not interested if it could shorten the CPU life, just know that OC'ing DOES shorten the life of the CPU. In today's times, its also not always economically possible to upgrade parts, so let us know if you find yourself between a rock and a hard place as we may be able to offer a few tweaks to get the best performance out of what you already have.

[SteamWake]

9 times out of 10 the game running slowly is not due to cpu horsepower. What video card are you using? How much RAM do you have in your system -.

This...

and

Will overclocking kill my computer ?

answer, Yes... eventually. Even with carefull tinkering your not going to wring out enough performance to make a noticable difference and the 'stress' on your system will catch up to it.

[Seminole]

So what do you guys think, how exactly do I overclock

Not that I ever over clocked anything or ever intend to..but if you do..I might suggest that first you spend some time at sites like Mad Onion and get the facts...ask some questions...

[peabody]

I know it wasn't the question, but the absolute FIRST thing I would do is defag your hard drive!! I did a complete reinstall a couple of weeks ago, due to a problem and then in just 2 weeks time doing some modding and many changes I could hardly get the TC over 512 without everything slowing to a very jerky crawl. After a defrag it was amazing the difference.
The next step I would take is to shut down all non-essential programs when you are using SH4. Especially all those programs that sit there using resources just in case you may want it to start up in 2 seconds instead of 5 seconds. In fact I have these shut down all the time not just with SH4, there are using memory I need for graphics.

And then try some of the suggestions for lowering the 'eye candy' and see what you can live with until you either learn to overclock or build a new rig. The graphics are cool, but let's face it, you spend most of your time submerged or Time Compressed anyway.

You may find a point where the game runs better without the risk of overclocking which you admit you know nothing about. Not saying you shouldn't do it, but do your research first. The hardest part for someone that knows nothing about it, is finding someone with exactly the same components you have. Just because 'Wizkid' overclocked his graphics card a certain way does not mean it will work that way for you.
And if you can get it to work acceptable for now, you won't end up spending money on components that may not work in your next motherboard when you finally take the leap to a new machine.

Peabody

[CptGrayWolf]

I know it wasn't the question, but the absolute FIRST thing I would do is defag your hard drive!! I did a complete reinstall a couple of weeks ago, due to a problem and then in just 2 weeks time doing some modding and many changes I could hardly get the TC over 512 without everything slowing to a very jerky crawl. After a defrag it was amazing the difference.
The next step I would take is to shut down all non-essential programs when you are using SH4. Especially all those programs that sit there using resources just in case you may want it to start up in 2 seconds instead of 5 seconds. In fact I have these shut down all the time not just with SH4, there are using memory I need for graphics.

And then try some of the suggestions for lowering the 'eye candy' and see what you can live with until you either learn to overclock or build a new rig. The graphics are cool, but let's face it, you spend most of your time submerged or Time Compressed anyway.

You may find a point where the game runs better without the risk of overclocking which you admit you know nothing about. Not saying you shouldn't do it, but do your research first. The hardest part for someone that knows nothing about it, is finding someone with exactly the same components you have. Just because 'Wizkid' overclocked his graphics card a certain way does not mean it will work that way for you.
And if you can get it to work acceptable for now, you won't end up spending money on components that may not work in your next motherboard when you finally take the leap to a new machine.

Peabody

Well I don't know about defaging my hard drive (if that's the way it is, I respect it...) but I do defrag it. :lol:

But seriously, thanks all for the advice, I am now officialy scared and will not overclock. Not that I ever thought it was a good idea in the first place. I just really wanted to play SH4 smoothly.
Maybe my vid card is the problem, its an nvidia 6600GT and I have 1.25 GB of ram(yes, I built my rig 4 years ago :oops: )
I like to think I keep a clean system but I really hit the performance wall with SH4. A little strange because I can play GRAW2, must be all that ocean rendering or something.
You guys are right of course, I do need a new rig...
Thanks all!

[Webster]

I have zero knowledge in overclocking and I'm also not interested in doing it if my comp's life span will be cut in half (or something like this).

So what do you guys think, how exactly do I overclock and will it reduce the CPU's lifespan?

overclocking pushes things farther than the limits are for reliable service and long life.

things run much hotter and wear out much faster because overclocking is pushing it until it blows up then replace what you blow and push it almost that far and see how long it lasts before it blows again.

overclocking is just controled destruction of your computer. for a little better performance you risk way too much. its cheaper to just build a better computer than risking spending lots of money and time fixing things that keep wearing out or burning up.

you can cut your grass faster if you redline the engine but it wont last for long. this is the best comparison to what happens when you overclock. overclocking is a hobby best left to people with extra money and lots of time to spend.

[Rockin Robbins]

Yes, your graphics card is one step from adequate. I wouldn't call my 7600GT card excellent, just adequate with graphics settings wide open, 1200x1024 resolution. I did find with a 3200+ I was a bit processor bound and when upgrading to an Opteron 175 I gained about 5 fps. It is possible for 5 fps to make the difference between playability and no playability, but I don't think so in most cases. Surely it proves that in your case overclocking to destruction wouldn't improve your gameplay enough.

So they're right. GPU is your first step. That 8800GT is calling you, BUT its power demands will suck your computer down a black hole, guaranteed. Since you apparently have a home built computer to begin with, first things first. And numero uno is getting a mondo power supply in there that will handle the newer graphics cards. Then look at that motherboard and see if it has the PCIe slot or slots you'll need to plug the newer graphics cards into. If it does not, you're looking at new motherboard, CPU and memory.

So what order do you do this in? I'm going to assume that you can't afford to do it all at once. If the motherboard is willing, then the power supply should be the first purchase, if an investigation shows you need it. The EVGA website tells you exactly how many watts you need to pull this rabbit out of the hole. Yes, the power supply will leave you after step one with no improvement in performance, but it unlocks everything else.

If your motherboard isn't up to the job, then your first step will have to be a combo purchase of motherboard, CPU and memory. Go for at least 2 gb of memory. This will be your most expensive hit possible. But it will give you a performance improvement after step 1.

If your motherboard and power supply are in line it's time to look at graphics cards. I'll second the nomination of EVGA as a great company to deal with and top performing, reasonably priced products. If DX10 is important to you, you'll have to look at the 9000 series cards. If not, that 8800GT has a price that will probably make you smile.

As far as overclocking goes, I personally would only overclock if the components I'm overclocking are going to be replaced anyway and they are not sellable. That is the case with your 2700+ processor, so some informed experimenting with overclocking might be a fine idea here. Just know that even spectacular success isn't going to solve your problem. And as Webster says, significant overclocking without heroic liquid cooling measures costing hundreds of dollars always shortens the life of your equipment. It would be for educational experience only and may result in the destruction of a worthless CPU. That's the most fun kind of ecucation!

[Lexandro]

Wow you guys are way off the mark. Its a myth that oc'ing results in a lower life span and destroyed components. Ive a PC here I OC'ed 4 years ago and it still running strong with no problems. The PC im use now is OC'ed and has been for a year with no issues. In fact the first problem I had with this rig was a failing PSU when I started playing Monsun.

Listen folks, no offence but unless you actually have experience of doing a hardware based overclock please dont confuse the subject.

Can you damage parts from OC'ing? .

Yes you can damage the CPU from overheating if your cooling is not up to scratch or from pumping to many volts through the system. But if your cooling is adequet, and you dont go nuts on the volts then no damage will occur. And with Intels line of Core 2 Due chips its not " a small gain" its a bloody MASSIVE gain. A 1.8ghz C2D can be pushed up to 3ghz easily with water cooling, and run happily like that for years. Even with air cooling 2.5/3ghz is easily attainable.

AMD also MAKE cpu's specifically designed for overclocking (Black series) which are sold on to enthusiasts with an unlocked multiplyer for easy overclocking.

Your all basing your opinions on outdated information, and false assumptions.

EDIT* I should add that the best advice is for the OP to make a new rig. Lets be honest here how long has the OP had it? Several years by the looks of it. Prices of dual-core systems are lower priced than it would cost to upgrade his current rig. An example is memory, you can buy 2gb of DDR2 ram for less than £30 but a 1gb stick of DDR ram will cost £50+ as it is no longer mainstream its old tech and out of production. Similarly AM2 motherboards can be had for £40 or less where as previous sockets (SOCKET A/ S939) are not even stocked anymore. OP ; New rig time, if you want advice just ask me and I'll tell you anything you need in a given price range.

[Rockin Robbins]

Professor Lexandro speaks the truth! If you have outdated components, buying memory and CPUs is too expensive. Make the leap to present generation and save some cash while making a much better system. If you're upgrading a previous generation system, as I said earlier, make sure the components you buy can migrate to the new. With CPUs and memory that isn't possible and you end up overpaying for an inferior product.

And Professor Lexandro is correct about overclocking. It is a question of temperature and the money you are prepared to invest to keep that temperature in a range that will make your components last longer than you would use them anyway. Some shortening of life is tolerable, like making your CPU last five years instead of seven. What CPU would you want to use seven years from now? None! So you haven't lost anything by a modest shortening of its life.

If you by beefing up your cooling system achieve the same or nearly the same operating temperatures for that component as you had before overclocking, it will last a similar length of time. Your casual overclocker often fails to take these factors into account and that spawns a lot of horror stories. But that is good, because it scares away people who shouldn't really be attempting to overclock their systems anyway.:up:

[Webster]

Wow you guys are way off the mark. Its a myth that oc'ing results in a lower life span and destroyed components. Ive a PC here I OC'ed 4 years ago and it still running strong with no problems. The PC im use now is OC'ed and has been for a year with no issues. In fact the first problem I had with this rig was a failing PSU when I started playing Monsun.

Listen folks, no offence but unless you actually have experience of doing a hardware based overclock please dont confuse the subject.



well i'll respond this way,

how many parts, components, and things have you burned up, burned out, or had fail in your overclocking endevors that gained you the knowledge you have now to say you know how to safely overclock things today? :hmm:

can you say it is something an unskilled novice should attempt? :hmm:

are you aware two identical pieces of hardware can have very different limits it can handle and the results you get from them? (in other words it is impossable to know the limit)

and lastly, dont assume that we dont know anything about overclocking just because we give very valid warnings about what can happen when you overclock.

while i dont overclock myself i take great joy in watching my friends set off smoke detectors and spend insane amounts of time and money doing it. :rotfl: more than one could have bought a car with that $

i always tell them if they like seeing things smoke so much its cheaper to buy fireworks instead.

[Lexandro]

well i'll respond this way,

how many parts, components, and things have you burned up, burned out, or had fail in your overclocking endevors that gained you the knowledge you have now to say you know how to safely overclock things today? :hmm:

Absolutely none. The only hardware failures Ive had in the last 8 years have been from 2 PSU's (if you dont count broken keyboard/mice). One of which was only a week or so ago. I am using an HDD in this current rig that I bought several years ago (4+) and is still in perfect working order and I use it as a back-up operating system drive with windows XP on it. My other older systems have been sold on to people looking for a cheap computer or given away in parts. I have had zero complaints or problems with them.


can you say it is something an unskilled novice should attempt? :hmm:


Everyone is unskilled at some point, but learning from experts in the field who have done that sort of thing already is the safest way to learn what not to do. Also asking advice about what your intending to do is another great way to ensure that your doing something in the correct manner. Thats why I advised him to read up first in the site I mentioned. Its a forum where people discuss all manners of electronics and the overclocking of them.


are you aware two identical pieces of hardware can have very different limits it can handle and the results you get from them? (in other words it is impossable to know the limit)


Yes, its one of the first things you learn when Oc'ing "no two computers are alike" but only to a certain degree is this applicable. For instance buying two indentical CPU's can result in a variation between them on what settings they are stable on. One may heat up more than the other, one may attain a higher performance than the other. But they will share similar features and settings that can be used as a comparison to improve both the systems. And you can know some aspects of the limits due to what tools your going to use or parts you have. For example if I were to use liquid nitrogen I could easily attain an overclock way beyond anything normal users would get to as temperature would not be a factor. But using standard air cooling I know that at around 55 degrees celcius is the limit you should stop and back down your settings as problems will arise beyond that point.


and lastly, dont assume that we dont know anything about overclocking just because we give very valid warnings about what can happen when you overclock.

while i dont overclock myself i take great joy in watching my friends set off smoke detectors and spend insane amounts of time and money doing it. :rotfl: more than one could have bought a car with that $

i always tell them if they like seeing things smoke so much its cheaper to buy fireworks instead.
Those kinds of overclockers are simply there to try for glory. The more sensible crowd do it to improve a systems overall performance for day to day usage. As such they have setups that could and do run 24/7 without issues of any kind. I applaud people making sure someone doesnt do something stupid by giving sound advice.
However I do also feel its necessary to point out where people are mistaken on a subject when I have first hand knowledge of the matter. As I said a lot of the objections and horror stories are from those who are using sub standard or outdated tech with no knowledge of how to proceed properly. Modern system are designed to be overclocked to some extent. Some parts are solely designed to appeal to the overclockers.

Its not such a horror strewn path as some would beleive, honestly.

*EDIT/SIDE NOTE* The 4 year old rig is the one in the living room that is used as a Home Theatre PC. Its small and quiet and does everything I need it to so no need to replace it just yet.

[Diopos]

Most people have problems understanding/finding-out/monitoring voltage and temperature on key components or even why they should open the box and "blow out" the dust to keep it clean and the fans running properly. With overclocking you must really know what you're doing. If you are, you gain, if not you could be merrily dancing in a minefield! :yep:

[tomoose]

Not to derail this thread but.....
Holy cow Lexandro, do they still make Mechano? That takes me back (when Mechano was actually metal and nuts and bolts, and you could built whatever your imagination could come up with, LOL).:D

[Webster]

well i'll respond this way,

how many parts, components, and things have you burned up, burned out, or had fail in your overclocking endevors that gained you the knowledge you have now to say you know how to safely overclock things today? :hmm:

Absolutely none. The only hardware failures Ive had in the last 8 years have been from 2 PSU's (if you dont count broken keyboard/mice). One of which was only a week or so ago. I am using an HDD in this current rig that I bought several years ago (4+) and is still in perfect working order and I use it as a back-up operating system drive with windows XP on it. My other older systems have been sold on to people looking for a cheap computer or given away in parts. I have had zero complaints or problems with them.



well you must understand that you are the exception to the average person, you get good information on the known limits that work well and dont push your system more than that. the OP would do well with someone like you to help him but the reason i feel the way i do is that the vast majority of people dont have someone like you around to help them.

i live by the golden rule that given half a chance the average person will manage to screw something up most of the time and i give advice based on that premis.

as Diopos said most people dont even clean the dust out of their systems much less have the due diligence to monitor their systems properly.

with all due respect i still feel that overclocking and water cooling are two things that should only be done by experienced to advanced skill level persons.

i understand you have to learn at some point but unless you have one of those experienced to advanced skill level persons there to help you do it, then you are working without a net so to speak and if something goes wrong you wont know it until its too late.

im sure with proper precautions it could be done with little chance of something going wrong but i would feel very bad if someone ruined their computer trying to overclock it because i said they should give it a try.

[Rockin Robbins]

Also understand that water cooling is an expensive proposition--more expensive than just buying faster equipment. Overclocking is a hobby like racing cars. You don't do it to save money, you do it because you love testing the limits of your hardware.

Since overclocking is an irrational thing, there is no way to talk about it rationally. You either love it and commit resources to doing it or you don't. If you fry something once in awhile or spend $300 making an upgrade that you could have bettered the speed for half of that, it is for the love of the hobby. No risk, no glory. Insane speed ahead!