SH4 is pony imo

[Achtung Englander]

Hi

As a long time player of SH3 I decided to finally get SH4. My first impressions are that this game is one step forward and 2 steps backwards

The graphics are a definite improvement but the interface is bloody aweful compared to SH3 and it is not as intuitive. I get a feeling the game has been dumbed down to appeal to a larger market and all it has done is put hard core sub simmers off

Please tell me someone is working on a mod to make the interface back to SH3

The worst bits for me are
- crew management is terrible
- torpedo management is terrible
- the icons look cartoony
- far less information that is readily at hand, ie, range to target, ship type etc etc
- submarine management in port is terrible
- all your crew are faceless and less personal. Namely I don't feel I am controlling my men.

The graphics are nice but almost everything else has been made for the worse

[SteamWake]

It works for me :p

[Task Force]

Sh4 is ok. Alittle diffrent but ok.:yep:

[Rockin Robbins]

Hi

As a long time player of SH3 I decided to finally get SH4. My first impressions are that this game is one step forward and 2 steps backwards

The graphics are a definite improvement but the interface is bloody aweful compared to SH3 and it is not as intuitive. I get a feeling the game has been dumbed down to appeal to a larger market and all it has done is put hard core sub simmers off

Please tell me someone is working on a mod to make the interface back to SH3

The worst bits for me are
- crew management is terrible
- torpedo management is terrible
- the icons look cartoony
- far less information that is readily at hand, ie, range to target, ship type etc etc
- submarine management in port is terrible
- all your crew are faceless and less personal. Namely I don't feel I am controlling my men.

The graphics are nice but almost everything else has been made for the worse
Well, you have an opinion. You won't mind if I just marvel at it for awhile?:cool:

Have fun with SH3.

[Lexandro]

Hi

As a long time player of SH3 I decided to finally get SH4. My first impressions are that this game is one step forward and 2 steps backwards

You have already biased yourself against the game, you should not be judging the game so quickly.

The graphics are a definite improvement but the interface is bloody aweful compared to SH3 and it is not as intuitive. I get a feeling the game has been dumbed down to appeal to a larger market and all it has done is put hard core sub simmers off
Your complaining because the Devs wanted to make the game appeal to a wider audience? Not everyone likes to sit infront of the screen with a sextant, pocket calculator, note pad, pen, compas, etc. So if removing some unneccesary crap helps out the game in sales and acclaim, so be it. Hard core sub simmers are few and far between, the devs cant afford to make a game solely for that market or else it would tank in sales. The interface is fine to me, I know where everything is.


Please tell me someone is working on a mod to make the interface back to SH3

The worst bits for me are
- crew management is terrible
So moving every crew member every few hours is your idea of fun? Its certainly not mines, I hated that about DC. I am so glad its an auto system now in SHIV.

- torpedo management is terrible
How is a simple drag and drop system bad management or design? Its the corner stone of the PC.

- the icons look cartoony
Can be changed, merely superficial.

- far less information that is readily at hand, ie, range to target, ship type etc etc
You get all the info you require to make the shot, all extrenuous data is removed. A bad workman blames his tools. Try using what you have at hand first, like the recog manual, sonar, position keeper etc.

- submarine management in port is terrible
Again how? Drag and drop system with a clean and simple interface is perfect.

- all your crew are faceless and less personal. Namely I don't feel I am controlling my men.
Your not, your the skipper, you control the BOAT. Its the XO's job to manage the men.

The graphics are nice but almost everything else has been made for the worse
SHIV is a game in its own right, not simply an SH3 clone with a pretty face. If you dont like it go back to SH3. No-one is forcing you to play it. The fact that SHIV has more wider mass market appeal is a good thing, as it infact gives them the ability to make a 5th game. If it didnt sell well, there would be no more franchise.

But your entitled to your view, just as I am to mines. Imo SH3 sucks, and SHIV is way better. To each his own.

[Matilda]

Rockin Robbins, I have rarely seen such a dry, wry, biting, and irreverent since of humor. Sometimes I read your posts and can’t help but laugh and think “I wish I had the temerity to say that”. If I ever get in a disagreement or argument with you, I here by give up in advance.

[jamz]

I liked SH3 a lot, and there were a few things it did better in my opinion that made it a more immersive game. I had a tough time adjusting to the new controls, new look and new setup of SH4.

That said, once the adjustment was made, I've played SH4 entirely, loved it, and have since uninstalled SH3 because it became actually too frustrating to play. (crew management, etc)

[Achtung Englander]

imo if you need to make more simple from SH3 I think the issue is that part of the fun is you get to know your crew and have a hands on approach to managing your boat

if you saw Das Boot or read Iron Coffins you get an idea that the Captain actually knew his men and where they were and what they were doing at all times. That is taken away from you in SH4 because the Devs (probably in response to make it more mass market appeal) decided to simplify the micro management.

I think the best solution would have been to give you the choice between "arcade" and "realistic" modes to satisfy both markets

and also lets have the swastika back in the manual and boats

the war happened - the German govt cannot brush aside it because its embrassing

[Dolemite-]

Coming from SH3 with GWX I didnt really like SH4 either. The controls were different, the interface was different, and there were no more bunk compartments for me to put my crew in! Were they 24/7 work slaves now?!

But once you actually settle in you realize the changes are for the better, the crew no longer needs to be constantly managed, they now work in shifts, and all the informantion is there, its just in a different layout.

The best thing you can do to help yourself "get in" to SH4 is to download Trigger Maru Overhauled. The key layout brings it back to SH3 style, and weather reports, depth to keel, ect. commands come back.

And once you start playing the campaign and are lining up a shot on a merchant while simulatanously being pinged by a destroyer all your fond memories of SH3 will come rushing back, and you'll be glad you gave SH4 a second chance :up:

[Lexandro]

imo if you need to make more simple from SH3 I think the issue is that part of the fun is you get to know your crew and have a hands on approach to managing your boat

if you saw Das Boot or read Iron Coffins you get an idea that the Captain actually knew his men and where they were and what they were doing at all times. That is taken away from you in SH4 because the Devs (probably in response to make it more mass market appeal) decided to simplify the micro management.

I think the best solution would have been to give you the choice between "arcade" and "realistic" modes to satisfy both markets

and also lets have the swastika back in the manual and boats

the war happened - the German govt cannot brush aside it because its embrassing
As many historians will point out DasBoot is not accurate, I myself have seen the full DasBoot version 4 times. If you are basing you expectations of WW2 submarine combat on it, your going to be disapointed. I've played enough sim games to know that excessive micro management can detract from the gaming experience and put players of returning to the franchise. There are realism settings in the game options where you can set it to "arcade" or "sim" style of play. Also its not up to UBI or the Devs if the swastika is in the game, its the law that it is NOT. The swastika is banned in Germany and if memory serves me correctly it is infact a criminal offence to have it depicted in a computer game in Germany. Regardless of a persons feelings on the matter the Devs MUST abide by the laws of a country they intend to market the game in.

[Fincuan]

http://simplymarvelous.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/rare-pony-400-pixels.jpg

SH3 in the foreground, SH4 in the background :lol:

[FIREWALL]

SH4 is ripe for the modders like never before. :yep:

Before you posted did you bother to look in the SH4 Mods section ?

The modders have done fantastic things with this game and haven't even scratched the surface yet.

This is the sub game UBI will build on (addons ,ect.) for the near future. IMHO.

See if there isn't something in the SH4 mods section that will help you out. :D

[Bosje]

when I came into the SH4 forum section after playing SH3 GWX I said a lot of the same stuff, but after some time with mods and getting used to the whole thing, I started to love SH4

check out the mods section, there are some great things out there

[Achtung Englander]

you know after playing for 4 hours I must admit I am getting used to it and it is slowly growing on me

there are some definite improvements over SH3 but as a GWX addict we were spoiled with that mod

I will check out the mods on offer - can anyone recommend some of the best please

I take it back that it is pony - just different

[Bosje]

that attitude will get you far

coming from gwx, i am happy with my setup of
PE4
RFB
RSRD
(OpMon if you want to go back to the atlantic)

and a load of immersion and sound mods like BBC radio and RUIM

[Orion2012]

you know after playing for 4 hours I must admit I am getting used to it and it is slowly growing on me

there are some definite improvements over SH3 but as a GWX addict we were spoiled with that mod

I will check out the mods on offer - can anyone recommend some of the best please

I take it back that it is pony - just different

OM is an excellent choice if you wanna head back into the atlantic.

If you like the pacific I would suggest RFB for realism or TMO for a challenge (the DD's are superhuman)

[Ivan Putski]

When I first bought SH4 I had mixed feelings about it, as time went on, and the modders got a grip on it, things improved. Now there`s so many new things going on with it, the mods seem endless. I gave my original to my Son, and bought SH4 Gold, I play hard core, and enjoy it, it`s heavily modded, including a Swastika mod that places the emblem on the German screens, and documents. I have no problems with the way crew management is handled, much better IMHO.

What the sim needs is an SH4 Commander, and I think something similar to it was being worked on awhile back. Just check out the mods section, you might be amazed at what you find there already finished, as well as the WIP`s coming up in the near future. Puts:yep:

[kylania]

"The worst bits for me are
- crew management is terrible" - It went from neat but tiresome, to "I have a crew?" Personally I wish it was more middle of the road. I enjoyed getting to know my crew by interacting with them in SH3. In SH4 my crew is totally meaningless to me.

"- torpedo management is terrible" - Not sure I follow you on this one? I had no problems with either game.

"- the icons look cartoony" - As others have said, totally modable. I hapen to like most of the UI better in SH4.

"- far less information that is readily at hand, ie, range to target, ship type etc etc"- I find manual targeting in SH4 far easier, especially using the PK. I can set all the data from the periscope screen easily. The "missing" buttons are there, you just need to add them to your menu.

"- submarine management in port is terrible" - Always started at Sea myself. :) I assumed no one would have done as great a job with ports as GWX did, so I skipped them.

"- all your crew are faceless and less personal. Namely I don't feel I am controlling my men." - I agree 100%.

All of that said, I prefer SH3 over SH4 currently. I'd actually bought SH4 Gold to get back into the game now that I have a better video card and instead find myself playing SH3 far more often...

[joegrundman]

I absolutely love both games.

For me the single greatest improvement in SH4 is the improved convoy behaviour after an attack. It makes SH3 convoys very dissatisfactory in comparison.

On the other hand the worst mistake Sh4 did was to prevent neutrals from stopping time compression.

Stalking up on a ship and not knowing, sometimes after more than 40 minutes spent on the pursuit, whether it is neutral or a target is a big part of the game, but the fact that SH4 TC only stops for valid targets is to me very nearly unforgiveable

I really really wish Ubisoft would send a mini-patch to fix this

apart from these two aspects, there's nothing much between them except improved graphics

[Te Kaha]

It's all just a matter of taste - one prefers SH3, one prefers SH4, one likes them both.

And the same company gets a profit to make another game :D - or pay the shareholders :hmm:

Let's go sinking ships....

[Diopos]

[quote=Te Kaha
...
- or pay the shareholders :hmm:
...

[quote]

They do? :hmm:

[Te Kaha]

Sometimes? :hmm:

[Rilder]

Daddy can I have a pony?

[Rockin Robbins]

you know after playing for 4 hours I must admit I am getting used to it and it is slowly growing on me

there are some definite improvements over SH3 but as a GWX addict we were spoiled with that mod

I will check out the mods on offer - can anyone recommend some of the best please

I take it back that it is pony - just different

There is a virtual drug built into SH3 and SH4. When you switch you get withdrawal symptoms for awhile and the new drug doesn't immediately work as well as the old. But once the withdrawal is over, you will find that you enjoy both about equally, with favorite parts in each. Sometimes, as in the controls for the games, you will end up wondering which is really best. Each has advantages and disadvantages that you appreciate with time.

Personally I think SH4 is a better game but calling SH3 obsolete is far from fair. It remains a great submarine simulation. It deserved to be updated to SH4 graphics standards and remaining as the U-Boat game while SH4 could have remained the fleet boat game. The present system is a dead end with too many shared parameters between U-Boats and fleet boats. Now it's back to the drawing board to rebuild everything in order to move forward. SH4UBM was not a good path toward the future. It was the end of development in the present generation of submarine simulations. Had SH3 been updated instead, it would have been the beginning.

But I've wandered from the point. SH3 and SH4 are both great games. They are not the same and judging one from the standard of the other is unfair to both.

[AVGWarhawk]

Where have I seen a thread like this before? :hmm:

[Rockin Robbins]

This thread has been actually constructive. It IS culture shock to go from one game to another and to his credit, Achtung stayed with it and has begun to see the light. He shows by example that initial impressions are often proved wrong. And he shows the rewards from giving SH4 a chance. I think that is something that doesn't usually happen in threads like this where an SH3 player comes, snipes and leaves. Achtung is no sniper and deserves a welcome and some encouragement.

So before you pull that six gun and lock the thread http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/RockinRobbins13/smileys/shootingsmilie.gif Ummmmm. AVG, I said six gun. All that wasted metal when there's a war going on.:rotfl:

Anyway, I think this one is different.:up:

[Lexandro]

Yeah ive seen a few similar style of threads devolve in to a slanging watch on all sides. Thats why when I countered his points I tried to do so in a manner which was straight, simple and easy to follow counter points.

Its good that he continued to play and learned to differenciate between the two games styles and approach. It shows he is able to adapt and learn to appreaciate a game for what it is rather than what it is not.

Its a learning process that many people go through when a new version of a favourite title comes out.

[tomoose]

.....someone who's discovering SH3 and GWX after having played SHIV for some time.

I loved SH3 but drifted away (pun intended) to SH4 when it came out. Moved back to SH3 due to the initial bugs/glitches with SH4 and came back to SH4 once the mod community gathered it's substantial steam.

I love SH4, warts and all. I complain about the odd bug and glitch but I keep cranking the game up and spending a couple of hours on the "high seas". Having said that, I've recently dl'd and installed the GWX mod for SH3 (I had NYGM before) and am rediscovering that game all over again, woohoo! There are days when I'm in the mood for the Pacific and days when I'm in the mood for the Atlantic. Both games have come a long way (neither are perfect......what computer game is?) but both are challenging in their own right regardless of eye candy etc and that's what keeps me coming back as I'm sure it does for most players.

Kudos to Achtung for being gracious enough to state he'd been mistaken with his initial impressions!

One last point: IMHO an "SH4 Commander" is the ONLY serious missing part of the puzzle right now, hint, hint, nudge, nudge, wink, wink, saynomore!!!;)
:know: :up:

[Wilcke]

Hi

As a long time player of SH3 I decided to finally get SH4. My first impressions are that this game is one step forward and 2 steps backwards

The graphics are a definite improvement but the interface is bloody aweful compared to SH3 and it is not as intuitive. I get a feeling the game has been dumbed down to appeal to a larger market and all it has done is put hard core sub simmers off

Please tell me someone is working on a mod to make the interface back to SH3

The worst bits for me are
- crew management is terrible
- torpedo management is terrible
- the icons look cartoony
- far less information that is readily at hand, ie, range to target, ship type etc etc
- submarine management in port is terrible
- all your crew are faceless and less personal. Namely I don't feel I am controlling my men.

The graphics are nice but almost everything else has been made for the worse

We all said some of that at the beginning. Going on two years now, its all good! I think I spend about 75% of my time with SH4 (TMO, RFB and OMV400) Mods. The rest of my sub time, 25% with SH3 NYGM 3.1.

Glad to see you are enjoying it more and that you will try out the MODS. I think that in the end you will be quite impressed. If you need any help just ask, there are a lot of knowledgeable folks here that are ready to jump to the occasion!

Happy Hunting!

[kiwi_2005]

Hi

As a long time player of SH3 I decided to finally get SH4. My first impressions are that this game is one step forward and 2 steps backwards

The graphics are a definite improvement but the interface is bloody aweful compared to SH3 and it is not as intuitive. I get a feeling the game has been dumbed down to appeal to a larger market and all it has done is put hard core sub simmers off

Please tell me someone is working on a mod to make the interface back to SH3

The worst bits for me are
- crew management is terrible
- torpedo management is terrible
- the icons look cartoony
- far less information that is readily at hand, ie, range to target, ship type etc etc
- submarine management in port is terrible
- all your crew are faceless and less personal. Namely I don't feel I am controlling my men.

The graphics are nice but almost everything else has been made for the worse
I agree with some of what you said, yet i prefer SH4 over SH3, the boats are more realistic looking especially when on deck I feel like i am in command of a sub, in SH3 it feels like im in command of a toy.

But yes the interface i too find a tad annoying, all we would need is 'OnelifeCrisis' to make a GUI OLC for SH4 and that would solve the problem with the interface. :yep:

Onelifecrisis - GUI OLC for SH3
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=124639

[SteamWake]

One last point: IMHO an "SH4 Commander" is the ONLY serious missing part of the puzzle right now, hint, hint, nudge, nudge, wink, wink, saynomore!!!;)
:know: :up:

Its not going to happen, at least not by the author of SH3 commander. :oops:

[Sailor Steve]

It has been pointed out that some things in SH4 take some getting used to after SH3, but a lot of folks (apparently including you now) have relearned and are actually enjoying it. I'm so happy with the Simfeeling mod that removes everything from the screen that I'm not sure I'll ever be happy without it.

I can't really play it still, but I just want to address one point.
- crew management is terrible

One of the biggest early complaints concerning SH3 was the crew management. Someone pointed out that in reality all boats (including u-boats) had assigned watch shifts for every compartment, and it was the COB's job to make sure the men went where they were supposed to, not the Captain's. It seems that the devs listened and implemented exactly that in SH4, and I'm glad to see it. That it has its problems in SH4 was something I was not aware of until some regular players mentioned it here. I'm anxious to find out more.

[Seminole]

SHIV is PONY?...:o

What in the 'ell could that mean?.....:-?

I Googled the term PONY and came up with this:

PONY (http://www.bayswan.org/PONY.html)


Warning......:nope: ...don't go there unless you are over 21 and accompanied by both parents...

More confused than ever...:down:

[Nisgeis]

It's Cockney rhyming slang 'Pony and Trap'.

[Seminole]

Well..that sure cleared things up...:shifty: :D

[Nicolas]

I have to disagree in all points except the cartoony thing :hmm:
I think the worst of SH4 are those ugly little bugs.
I like SH4, and played a lot SH3, you need to open the mind a bit :know:

[SteamWake]

Well..that sure cleared things up...:shifty: :D

:hmm: :shifty: :doh: :damn: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pony_(slang)

[Tango589]

Well..that sure cleared things up...:shifty: :D

:hmm: :shifty: :doh: :damn: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pony_(slang)

The link doesn't work, but for those who want to know: 'Pony' is short for 'pony and trap' which is cockney rhyming slang for 'crap'.:know:

Also, if you hear someone mention their 'aris' referring to their bum, it comes from the following: 'Aris' is short for 'Aristotle', which rhymes with 'bottle', which is short for 'bottle and glass' which is slang for 'arse'!:arrgh!:

Knowledge is power!:huh:

Ps.

I may get round to SHIV one day as it does look a good game, but GWX 3 for SH3 is coming out at Xmas, so I won't be here for a while yet.:)

[SteamWake]

Knowledge is power!:huh:


Well thats the Bee's Knees :|\\

[Tango589]

Knowledge is power!:huh:


Well thats the Bee's Knees :|\\

Not to mention the Wasps Testicles!:rotfl: