Steel Fury Discussion [Archive] - SUBSIM Radio Room Forums

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Hitman

10-15-08, 09:41 AM

Many thanks:up:

So far I like what I have readed, looks like it could in fact be an interesting game :ping:

Konovalov

10-15-08, 10:47 AM

From the Armchair General review it looks promising. :yep: I could wind up buying two tank sim games this year. :o

GlobalExplorer

10-17-08, 06:00 AM

Some time ago I watched a lot of steel fury videos on youtube and I must say it looked impressive. Certainly not a game with the longevity of OFP or SHIII but nonetheless a fine simulation of wwII tank combat.

Now that release is imminent I think I will download the demo again and try to play some missions.

Skybird

10-17-08, 06:52 AM

All posts moved from the ressources into a separate discussion thread.

The Management.

Skybird

10-17-08, 05:02 PM

Seeing is believing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MikoVssK6FE

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=steel+fury+kharkov&search_sort=video_date_uploaded

Does anybody have info on the copy protection they use?

stabiz

10-21-08, 04:37 PM

I am getting both anyway, the few sim-makers are holy crusaders in my book, but can anybody say something about the differences between Kharkov and T34 vs Tiger?

stabiz

10-21-08, 04:39 PM

Owwww! What happened to the music at 1.33 in the first video?:rotfl:

Skybird

10-22-08, 06:36 AM

I am getting both anyway, the few sim-makers are holy crusaders in my book, but can anybody say something about the differences between Kharkov and T34 vs Tiger?
No, but you can once you have checked them both.

Pleeeeaaase...!:D

HunterICX

10-22-08, 09:55 AM

I am getting both anyway, the few sim-makers are holy crusaders in my book, but can anybody say something about the differences between Kharkov and T34 vs Tiger?

A notable difference,

Kharkov Steel fury does NOT have a Multiplayer
Tiger versus T-34 has a Multiplayer.

HunterICX

Onkel Neal

10-22-08, 11:07 AM

When I first heard about Steel Fury, I thought it was the same game. Seems to be two separate games by two different Russian dev teams, under one publisher. Odd, a drought of tanksims followed by two very similar titles.

I will be posting a preview of Steel Fury in a few days, here are some nuggets to savor
http://www.tanksim.com/images/steel_1.jpg

http://www.tanksim.com/images/steel_2.jpg

http://www.tanksim.com/images/steel_3.jpg

Hitman

10-22-08, 01:42 PM

Now where¡s that icon for drooling, Neal? :D

stabiz

10-22-08, 01:48 PM

Yes, we need a drooling smiley.

ReM

10-22-08, 04:39 PM

For now I can entertain myself playing Far Cry 2; looking forward to these 2 tanksims though......:yep:

November 14 is my birthday; guess what my presents will be.......

BadKarma1001

10-24-08, 02:00 AM

Can´t count how often i played the demo mission.
I have the impression that Steel Furys will be a tad "better" than Battle Tanks (bummer that there is no multiplayer in SF) but i will get both games anyway since the last WW II tank sim i bought was Panzer Elite.

Skybird

10-24-08, 04:45 AM

release date for european version is 7th Nov. (box, downoload), for the US "sometime" during November (download only).

RICH12ACE

10-27-08, 06:53 AM

hi all what tank 3d interiors does steel fury have apart from the t34?:roll:

Skybird

10-27-08, 10:19 AM

hi all what tank 3d interiors does steel fury have apart from the t34?:roll:playable tanks: 3 (T-34/76 mod. 1941, Mk.II ‘Matilda' III, Pz. IV Ausf. F2.)

Task Force

10-27-08, 12:03 PM

Speedy

10-29-08, 09:33 PM

I am getting both anyway, the few sim-makers are holy crusaders in my book, but can anybody say something about the differences between Kharkov and T34 vs Tiger?

T-34vsTiger seems to be getting something of a bagging on the Lighthouse forums.

tigershuffle

10-30-08, 07:15 AM

Hello all, so yesterday I downloaded the demo. I start the game up and everything is fine. So I go to start a mission and when the mission starts the screen is black with white. I can hear the tank but cannot see it.:-?

Checkout the lighthouse forums and possibly t34 v tiger forums.....
Im sure I read that someone had similar problems. I think it was thought to be Nvidia or possibly Vista related.?!?
Ive had no probs : XP/Ati 3650/2gb mem/Athlon X2 3600.
;)

Skybird

11-15-08, 06:23 AM

To bring this thread up to the top again.

First small feedbacks of SF-customers have started to drip in. They are enthusiastic about it. It seems to be an awful lot better than TvT.

So if you still look for a WWII tanksim, don't give up your optimism too early after the TvT debacle (that'S what it seems to be, I even saw it already at reduced price).

Maybe I will embark of SF indeed, despite my mediocre demo impressions (the demo is over a year old).

Task Force

11-15-08, 01:12 PM

Skybird

11-17-08, 09:20 AM

GoGamer.com now lists SF with a release date of 18th November and a price of 40 $US.

Hitman

11-17-08, 09:59 AM

First small feedbacks of SF-customers have started to drip in. They are enthusiastic about it. It seems to be an awful lot better than TvT.

Got exactly the same feelings after reading the different reviews....:yep:

Skybird

11-17-08, 10:59 AM

Reviews...?

Monkwarrior

11-18-08, 03:14 AM

So if you still look for a WWII tanksim, don't give up your optimism too early after the TvT debacle (that'S what it seems to be, I even saw it already at reduced price).

Since you brought it up.
Did you buy TvT yourself and try it out ?
If not I suggest you do so, because opinions are so much more creditable if the person talking about it actually knows what he is talking about.
I have a totally different opinion about it, but you might have guessed that :cool:

Monk.

Skybird

11-18-08, 06:10 AM

No, I did not buy it, but I am aware of the customer feedback in the forums, and that is listing a whole lot of problems that are not just hallucinations as long as the folks are not all on dope, also the reviews we got so far did not convince me. The content also is not enough attractive for me, since I am not so much interested in (disfunctional for many people) MP. ;)

On the other hand, the preview and first customer feedback of SF is much more positive, and it seems that SF is holding the promise that TvT just made.

Many people seem to think like me, leading to low sales numbers: some international trader, I think it was gogamer, already has it reduced price - so has a german company as well. Finally, activity in the lighthouse forums is relatively low, that speaks for people not being interested anymore, and developer feedback is close to zero as well. Also, our own tanksim squad over here has not seen any activity since almost 3 weeks - although I even asked for it. It is difficult to run a game in MP mode if MP is broken for the majority of people.

So why should I lose money on TvT if the apparently better executed project seem to be SF?

Regarding tanks, I am an SBP-PE animal anyway. ;) that is the standard to which I compare any new tank simulation - and it has to leave a good impression at least. when you already know the best, you are not easily satisfied with something of lesser simulation quality - and why should you even be? ;)

Currently, TvT is in a state that makes recommending to spend money on it a dubious action. By the past reputation of the developer, the future does not look promising for the game. I wish for those who already spend money on it that there will be a patch fixing the major MP and AI issues that are reported so often, but even then I would not be willing to embark on it anymore, and would not willing to encourage them with such rushed, ill-prepared premature releases by giving them reward for this poor policy - by buying it. I personally think the developer fired a quick shot, and now earns what he could get on the fly and then will drop back into hidden cover, never to be seen again. Think they will not do more than the minimum needed. they did like that in the past, too.

HunterICX

11-18-08, 06:39 AM

Regarding tanks, I am an SBP-PE animal anyway. ;) that is the standard to which I compare any new tank simulation - and it has to leave a good impression at least. when you already know the best, you are not easily satisfied with something of lesser simulation quality - and why should you even be? ;)

That standard makes you as flexible as a steel gunbarrel of a tank.;)
how can something made by a game industry compare to a Military converted simulator?

HunterICX

Skybird

11-18-08, 07:12 AM

How can a company smaller than even a small game developement group and with just one lead programmer create something that outclasses products created with bigger staff and financial support? Answer: taking the time it needs, and being more clever and more dedicated than others. even the first SB (1 or Gold edition) still is superior to what we have in other tank games, and that title was a game developement for sure.

When you have flown "Falcon 4", you are no longer satisfied with flying the old "Jetfighter" games. Especially when they are broken. When you know SBP1, you will not be satisfied with M1TP2 anymore.

I certainly do not expect SF do beat SBP, it seems there is also too much professional insider knowledge enagged in SBP. But I can use SBP as a guideline on the basics a tanksim must fulfill to be a tanksim. I can compare the AI system. The way unit formation works. the importance of scripting versus flexible calculated responses. All that is no stuff exlusively for military simulators, but plays a role in dedicated game-simulators as well. And I can use my usual game standards for quality control that I already fought for when they released Sub Command and Dangerous Waters - both with some considerable flaws that they took over a year to fix (or not). That obvious and known bugs do not allow a game to be released, is one such demand, for example, and it makes perfect sense.

So, if your tanksim cannot jump over the hurdle set up by SBP, at least make it climb over it in a reasonable ammount of time, then, :D and eventually it gets my approval, taking into account it's different market focus. But when it head-on runs into it and brakes it down and then does not continue to run, don't expect my applaus. ;)

So in a way you are right: I am not too flexible indeed in what I consider as basic elements of defining "quality". Many people are very flexible here, means: very forgiving, compromising quality that way. Thats why the market quality level is as mediocre as it is: business sees that it gets away with not doing better. So, people get what they deserve, and quality software since years becomes more and more rare, and more and more often games have been rushed out too early, being sold in a broken state months before completion. It pays off for producers.

Skybird

11-18-08, 07:20 AM

Back on topic:

Latest SF-video, just two days old. I assume the user made it with the current version being sold.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMeiFkSqJVU

Skybird

11-18-08, 05:51 PM

First sound and texture mods have been posted in lighthouse's forum.

stabiz

11-18-08, 08:34 PM

That looks very good! The sounds are great (MG`s need some modding) and I like the sense of chaos. This will get me in the right christmas spirit, me thinks.:)

I have TvsT34, and I think its awful. It runs horribly (on my pretty good computer), looks ok, and plays like ... uhm ... something I really dont like. Wasted money. Good looking Tiger, though.

Ding-ding, back to topic.

Monkwarrior

11-19-08, 02:00 AM

No, I did not buy it So basicly you are just repeating opinions of others.

My opinion on T34vsTiger is different, might be because I bought it and actually played it ;)
It's a solid game which does have it's bugs of course.
I do agree that the producer still has to deliver what they promised: a patch to solve the issues some have with crashing and more MP-functionality.

MP is very playable for lots of people , as it should be.
I too own SPB and played it, but ww2 is more my thing. After all what's the fun of looking through thermal vision when we have huge GPU's in our pc's.

The biggest feature of TvT is the MP part of course.
That is the main selling point for me and many others just because we want to fight against real opponents. That's also the reason SF will not stick very long for me: I will buy it and play it, but after a few weeks the magic will be gone and the AI has become predictable.

So hurray for both games.
Comparing them is quite useless because they cater for different audiences (SP and MP).

Monk.

zvlad

11-19-08, 04:14 AM

Thanks all for responses about our game "STEEL FURY: Kharkov1942".

We expect, that addition "STEEL FURY:FALL BLAU" leaves the near future.
May be 1Q 2009...

Russian version - "FALL BLAU" - was ready.
28.08.2008 - we have finished works on addition: "Steel Fury: Fall Blau"

demo reel to the game "Steel Fury: Fall Blau"
http://files.graviteam.com//fall-blau/SF-BLAU.avi (http://files.graviteam.com//fall-blau/SF-BLAU.avi)

Time of action "FALL BLAU" the end of June - the beginning of July 1942,
Scene of action Volchansk - Voronezh

10 new ranges.
Site of ranges:
- To the north of Stary Oskol
- Kamenka - Ozerki - Lomovo (to the south Eletc)
- Kastornoe - Gorshechnoye

20 new missions:

PzJager1 - 3 missions
PzIVF1 - 3 missions
PzIVF2 - 4 missions
Т-34 - 7 missions
Mk2 Matilda - 3 missions

gallery screenshots: http://dtf.ru/project/gallery.php?id=1307 (http://dtf.ru/project/gallery.php?id=1307)

We now finish works on our new game - to a tactical simulator - "KHARKOV1943".
http://kharkov1943.com/ (http://kharkov1943.com/)

Gallery of screenshots:
http://dtf.ru/project/gallery.php?id=1176 (http://dtf.ru/project/gallery.php?id=1176)

Tactical simulator with the fascinating plot based on documentary military history.

Genre - a tactical simulator.
Similar games - series Close Combat, series Combat Mission.
Execution - 3D, the camera from 3rd person with possibility of supervision from subordinates.

Action is developed during approach of Workers' and Peasants' Red Army(WPRA) near Kharkov in February, 1943 and counterattacks Wermacht in the beginning of March, 1943.
Game consists from 2х campaigns, 1 for WPRA, 1 for Wermacht.
A number of training missions is in addition provided.
Game is made on an existing engine.

With the best regards,
Vladimir Zayarniy
General director "GRAVITEAM"

Skybird

11-19-08, 05:48 AM

I too own SPB and played it, but ww2 is more my thing. After all what's the fun of looking through thermal vision when we have huge GPU's in our pc's.

Set up a match with "Turm aus" (Leopards), stabilizers, lasers and thermals set to off, disable GPS, and using the unstabilised GAS exlusively. Then it is not different to how they did it in WW2. ;) You can set all these options in the editor (under tank damage).

So basicly you are just repeating opinions of others..
No. I refer to obvious observations by others. That's quite a bit different.

That'S why you scan for customer feedback - to get an idea wether or not you want to spend money on something, or not. And customer feedback is most often closer to the truth than some forgiving magazine review that cannot afford to point out the bad sides too clearly when it does not wish to risk the sanctions of the producer in the future. That's why game magazines have turned into crap over the years. years ago I read some of them, occasionally - but obvious bugs and flaws got mentioned only rarely, and then most often not to their full extent. That is especially true with games from the great companies whose wrath really makes a financial (advertizing) difference, or even may call you to court over a not positive review (it all has happened).

the issues with AI are present for all, obviously, it'S just that you are more forgiving about them than others. The MP issues are a reality for very many players. you can judge that only by feedback again, if you judge it by the group of those that can play it, then it is no wonder that you get the impression that most people can play MP. Both feedback in this forum and the simHQ reviewer said different.

I understand that you like the game. A question of taste it is, and so it is okay. Just don't make it look better than it obviously is, two traders, one in the US one in Germany, already sell it for reduced price - four weeks after release! - that low interest has become. that must not irritate you if you like the game - enjoy it, then. But I still will advise people on the many setbacks there obviously are, and recommend people to think twice before spending money on it. ;) at least to wait until the patch - if there comes a patch - is out, and then evaluating what it does, and if the end result works, or works not.

Skybird

11-19-08, 05:57 AM

zvlad,

thanks for the update. I have decided to not let myself be kept away by the demo since I understood that it is very old, so I most likely will try SF sooner or later. Nice to see your team being dedicated to support SF. I read in other forums that you have plans for an eventual SF2 which then will include MP!?

zvlad

11-19-08, 06:53 AM

I read in other forums that you have plans for an eventual SF2 which then will include MP!?

There are such plans.
We solve questions with financing of such project

P.S. new demo reel "Kharkov1943" - 15 december 2008

longam

11-19-08, 08:42 AM

Have a link to reel? oops never mind

stabiz

11-19-08, 03:47 PM

Yay, I am getting this game.:)

Skybird

11-20-08, 06:29 AM

My time to prematurely jump into the cold, dark, shark-infested water too early. - Ordered it today. Stockpiling chocolate now for the possible phase of regret and depression. :lol:

andym

11-20-08, 03:27 PM

I read somewhere that there are issues with Nvidia graphics cards.I have Nvidia GeForce 8700m GT is this supported?I do hope so cos i really want this game!

Lurchi

11-21-08, 11:16 AM

I bought it too this week - i'll take a drive on the Panzer IV now ...

Hitman

11-22-08, 08:29 AM

Skybird

11-22-08, 09:49 AM

Reviews...?

Sorry for the delay in replying... :oops:

SimHQ reviewed/previewed both SF and T34vsTiger, and from those reviews (By the same person) I think SF had the strongest points :hmm:

http://www.simhq.com/_land3/land_102a.html

http://www.simhq.com/_land3/land_115a.html
Yes I know these previews, and had already linked them, I think. what irritated me is that you talked of "reviews", and in plural. ;) To my best knowldge, so far there is no review for SF. The 3 reviews for TvT are linked in the resources sticky.

Lieste

11-22-08, 11:25 AM

Zipuli posted a mini review on the off-topic board at steelbeasts forums.

Edited to correct name... note to self, look it up , don't try and remember ;)

Hitman

11-22-08, 12:02 PM

what irritated me is that you talked of "reviews", and in plural. ;) To my best knowldge, so far there is no review for SF.

yeah, how could I have forgotten the german PRECISION in the use of terms? :88)

That's what happens when you talk in english in a forum with a german moderator. Verdammt! :p

EDITED:

No WAIT!!!! I caught you!!! You said:

Yes I know these previews

But at least one of them is a REVIEW, the other is a PREVIEW!

See what I was talking about? :lol: You are german and by ta¡king in english you also made imprecise use of the language :damn:

Die deutsche Sprache ist eigentlich die beste wenn es zu Genauheit kommt :smug:

Skybird

11-22-08, 05:09 PM

Messing with the moderator, eh? :lol:

There are two sticky threads, one on TvT, one on SF. Originally I had listed previews on TvT, but when the reviews came, I replaced the previews with the reviews.

So far there is no review on SF (as long as it has not been released today, I was busy and haven't searched the net this afternoon and evening).

And it is "Die deutsche Sprache ist eigentlich die beste wenn es um Genauigkeit geht." :smug:

:-j

P.S.
Tracking status of my order of SF has advanced from "processed" to "completed". Think it should arrive in the first half of next week - I'm living around 60 km from the Dutch border...

Skybird

11-22-08, 05:19 PM

Here is the "review" by Zipuli that Lieste has mentioned.

Zipuli is no unknown in the Steel Beasts community, he has done some clever scenarios and seems to know some background stuff on tanking.

http://www.steelbeasts.com/sbforums/showthread.php?t=12589

Hitman

11-22-08, 06:20 PM

And it is "Die deutsche Sprache ist eigentlich die beste wenn es um Genauigkeit geht." :smug:

:-j

:damn:

Mein deutsch ist zu eingerostet.....(Ich spreche es nicht häufig seit fast 15 Jahre)

Skybird

11-22-08, 07:25 PM

You speak more German than I speak French, not to mention: Spanish. ;)

Lurchi

11-23-08, 08:00 AM

So i played Steel Fury a little bit this weekend. I think i am really going to like it: Performance is really good on my medium-sized 2,66GHz, Nvidia 9600, 4 Gig, Vista 64 System.

I cannot say so much about the realism and AI behaviour so far as my experience with tank simulations is rather limited. The last one i played intensively was an SSI game named Tank Commander or similar.

Of course the usual thing happened too: Obvious bugs that i found out after the first hour of playing such as missing target reticle in the Panzer IV (fixed by a patch) or Tanks loosing their tracks all the time (caused by an error of using the "T" key which is obviously used for Track repair but also turning the periscope).

I will never understand how a game can be sold with such obvious bugs. But this is only minor stuff and i think that SF is pretty good and will be even better after the first patch.

Skybird

11-23-08, 08:28 AM

I will never understand how a game can be sold with such obvious bugs. But this is only minor stuff and i think that SF is pretty good and will be even better after the first patch.

Both bugs seem to affect the German version only, and are not known in the russian version, as I understood the disucssion. It is a localisation issue. At least it already is fixed by the community, and is said to get treated in a first unofficial quick patch as well.

Wowh, for my usual unforgiving attitude regarding obvious bugs, I sound surprisingly tame this time! :D

stabiz

11-23-08, 06:21 PM

Preordered it now, there are pretty much only positive feedback so far, and this is great news. I really hoped it would be good.

Skybird

11-23-08, 08:06 PM

a blogger's review here:

http://sfkharkov.blogspot.com/

And this, in another forum one of the developers said that the work on the addon "Fall Blau" is not just underway, but already is completed.

Skybird

11-26-08, 09:46 AM

Got it, ten minutes ago, when the door bell rang.

Engaging testing mode now.

ReM

11-26-08, 04:52 PM

Got it, ten minutes ago, when the door bell rang.

Engaging testing mode now.

I'm quite curious what you have to say about it....dont feel rushed now;)

Shiplord

11-26-08, 06:08 PM

I have my version now since the weekend and I must say a good game, but not the big hit. I'm playing at the highest level of realism and I find the missions are to easy, ok I have only played the German campaign so far but my feelings are it is like an advanced arcade game that tries to be a full tanksim. It is somehow a little of both, but both not correct in a way it meant to be. It's sometimes funny to see the broken AI, when your friendly units don't know where to move and performing a tank ballet in the russian desert. :)

I hope the modders can furnish this game and make it a way more hardcore, with better AI, more enemy units and better campaigns.

...back to SBP for now:up:

Skybird

11-26-08, 06:19 PM

I have my version now since the weekend and I must say a good game, but not the big hit. (...) my feelings are it is like an advanced arcade game that tries to be a full tanksim
That sums up well my first impression after just four missions played. That I am not seriously disappointed is because I honestly did not expect anything much different from what I now have gotten.

Until here i think more in terms of "game" than "simulation".

I will do an unofficial review, not like with SBP or Tokyo Express, but like I did for Condor.

stabiz

11-26-08, 11:38 PM

A bit harsh? Or have everything changed since the demo?

Skybird

11-27-08, 03:38 AM

A bit harsh? Or have everything changed since the demo?
Not harsh, just unhyped and trying to be realistic. My views on the demo here:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=143670
The final game sees improvements over the demo, but not to the degree I meanwhile learned to hope for after reading the feedback and two previews at simHQ and Armchair General. It seems that many people are so desperately waiting for a solid WWII-based tank simualtion, that they are willing to forgive a lot when talking SF up (or TvT, for that matter). Main problem with SF is the terrible AI and the way in which the mission (=gameplay) unfolds. It always seem to be the same hail mary pass and then all is rushing forward, no matter what. Once in the objective zone, tanks start to zigzag back and fourth and left and right like in a stockcar race, not knowing about anything and where to go and what to do. Force cohesion is an alien term, taking hull-down positions I still wait to see, no defensive cover taking seem to ever happen. waypoints or mission obkjectives in the map seem to dominate over healthy reason when to expose your flanks and rear, and when better not (and that you better avoid always!) For an "epic" battle simulator, the tank forces I saw this far were relatively small in size, not even company sized, maybe in later missions there is greater forces to see. Target selection during a storm assault is - sit down and shake your head for a while, thats what target selection is like. The infantry 5 meters in front of you gets it with the main gun :lol: , the tank 200m away gets ignored. I have 5 missions now, but tactical finesse, any raffinesse at all, I'm looking for in vain. The interface is sub-optimal.

I've started to make first notes and drafts, there does not seem to be much more to discover, I unfortunately have to say - and I am already loosing interest. In schoolnotes, and taking the print on the box serious that says "an epic tank battle simulator", I am currently at a C- or D+ or D, something in that range. Not a desaster, but then again - also nothing so good you would call it a must-have. As an action game, it is acceptable and then combines the WWII-theme nicely with uncomplicated mission playing (but a complicated interface). seen that way, you could rate it as a B-, C+ or C.

And no, I do not talk it down in favour of SBP. I will compare it to SBP as well - if you want to judge a new tank title, you need to compare it to the standards set by the benchmark there is, it's only natural - but in a strictly separate chapter.

That's it for the moment, and i am already rushing ahead. No more word on SF from me until I'm finished.

ReM

11-27-08, 01:41 PM

Maybe I'll save the $$$ I was gonna spend on SF and use it to buy upcoming paid update for SBPpe. I don't like paid updates but it seems to be the better investment...:hmm:

stabiz

11-27-08, 03:30 PM

Lets be honest here, judging by the demo Steel Fury is just as much a sim as ... say ... the Silent Hunter series, and its now called "more a game than a simulation" by the SB Pro crowd. I think this means its just the right amount of simulation for me.:)

Skybird

11-27-08, 03:52 PM

Navarre

11-27-08, 05:21 PM

I have now both played, TvT and Steel Fury. But with all the bugs in TvT, for me the armored battle in TvT feels more demanding. Steel Fury looks beautiful for a tank game in this niche market but I find it half implemented in some cases of the game logic.

I never felt truly I have something contributed for the ever positive outcome of the missions, and this on highest realism settings not matter which side in the campaign I played.

I let move my comrades in a straight line onto the scanty existing opponents (like in ancient wars ;) ) and after about 5-10 minutes of playing time, mission is reported successfully, total loss of enemies, my men are all alive, absent the ones I shot down for a test of friendly fire.:88)

I do not know if there is only no longer remembers correctly, but a few years ago when I played M1 Tank Platoon, M1 Abrams, Panzer Elite and SB I felt that all these games are much more demanding and sophisticated. The graphic was not the best but the feeling and the degree of difficulty was higher I think. Maybe today you can no longer sell such a high level of difficulty to the consumers if you want enough revenue of your work.:roll:

Skybird

11-27-08, 06:08 PM

I let move my comrades in a straight line onto the scanty existing opponents (like in ancient wars ;) ) and after about 5-10 minutes of playing time, mission is reported successfully, total loss of enemies, my men are all alive, absent the ones I shot down for a test of friendly fire.:88)

compare that to this part from my review:

"In the tactics department, this game disappoints. Tactics I never needed to win – just letting my force linearly move towards the objectives, and sooner or later they succeeded, no matter how unorganised and chaotic the scene was (on highest difficulty settings, there are several sliders to adjust this). "

Steel Fury looks beautiful for a tank game in this niche market but I find it half implemented in some cases of the game logic.
I call it different, I call it: broken AI. If it looks, feels and behaves broken, and another explanation is not available or not likely, then it probably is broken. But I am the known black bogeyman of unforgiving reviews anyway... :lol:

Skybird

11-27-08, 06:13 PM

Maybe I'll save the $$$ I was gonna spend on SF and use it to buy upcoming paid update for SBPpe. I don't like paid updates but it seems to be the better investment...:hmm:
I think that is the best way to go. I should have listened to my own instincts that said "No" after the SF demo - would have saved me 40 bucks. But all that talking of people made me jittery. Should have let them talk, like usually I always do...

The SBP packages however has plenty of tasty stuff in it. Before you feel bad about paying for it, please remember that there already were I think six updates, including one major addon, all for free. They said from the very beginning on that from one point on they would need to charge for further public work.

Count Sessine

11-28-08, 07:32 AM

I overworked a draft for a review after having played 16 missions until now. I gave it two notes: as a complex action game, I gave it a B or B-; as a simulation I gave it a D.

Stabiz,

of course I know that people will suspect that I talk it down in order to let SBP shine, but believe me - I did not want and I even did not need to do so. As a sim it simply is no competition to SBP, in almost no way.

I let it rest now to see if over night something makes me changing my mind, but my interest to play on is almost nil, the past missions already were repetitive, and all very much the same, in good and bad. the most obvious difference is the changing ghraphics according to time of day.

If I do not see any need to start a massive rework, you have my 5200 word review tomorrow afternoon.

If you take SF as a light game and have not too high expectations, you can like SF. If you want a realistic sim, with the needed elements characterizing a simulation, SF is no serious player, imo. the simple fact that you can win almost all missions by doing nothing and just make sure you stay alive, and that after 24 hours I am already done with half of its missions and even had time to review it, speaks for itself.

Skybird,

I saw you posted over at the lighthouse forums as well and I think the good folks here deserve another point of view on Steel Fury. Your views on SF are unfair and unfounded. I don't understand why you think its not a serious sim.

I have been a professional reviewer for years and I see nothing in SF that doesn't point at the label 'hardcore sim'. The physis and operation of a WW2 tank are painstakingly accurate, the landscapes are modelled after the real thing (the Graviteam guys went on location to model them), and it has lots of bells and whistles in terms of sounds and sights.

Based on that, then what in the name of the simgods make you say it's an 'action' game?? Whats your problem with it, and what's up with the constant comparison with Steel Beasts?

Your comments are inappropriate and unaccurate. You have a right not to like it, but don't make it sound like its a piece of crap because it didn't pass 'THE SKYBIRD TEST', because then, my friend, you have a long way to go as a reviewer :-)

stabiz

11-28-08, 07:36 AM

tigershuffle

11-28-08, 07:54 AM

I think (and hope) you are right. I wont have the game until thursday or friday, but I have yet to read anything as negative as what Skybird writes.

I read that it is a helluva lot better than TvsT, a game Neal liked alot in his review, and now Skybird says he is uninstalling it after 24 hours. It doesnt make sense, unless its the usual SBP rant.

With it only just been out and bugs been addressed within days!! I think its a pretty good start.

Fall Blau to come and im sure some of the more talented simmers will be adding missions/mods pretty soon. :up:

Tigershuffle.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/haylazblue/statusicon/user_online.gif
sorry posted in wrong forum originally.. :oops:

Skybird

11-28-08, 07:55 AM

Skybird,

I saw you posted over at the lighthouse forums as well and I think the good folks here deserve another point of view on Steel Fury. Your views on SF are unfair and unfounded. I don't understand why you think its not a serious sim.

I have been a professional reviewer for years and I see nothing in SF that doesn't point at the label 'hardcore sim'. The physis and operation of a WW2 tank are painstakingly accurate, the landscapes are modelled after the real thing (the Graviteam guys went on location to model them), and it has lots of bells and whistles in terms of sounds and sights.

Based on that, then what in the name of the simgods make you say it's an 'action' game?? Whats your problem with it, and what's up with the constant comparison with Steel Beasts?

Your comments are inappropriate and unaccurate. You have a right not to like it, but don't make it sound like its a piece of crap because it didn't pass 'THE SKYBIRD TEST', because then, my friend, you have a long way to go as a reviewer :-)

Before you accuse me of being unfair and unfounded, why don'T you just wait until you have read what I have to say about it, and read the reasons why I rate it that mediocre? So far you object to details in my review that you still do not know. I have my reasons why I am not impressed, and I mention them. I also explain why I see it as a game, not as an simulation. but you will have to wait until Neal have set up the text.

The problem I see with both tank games here is that many people are craving so desperately for a WWII-tanksim or tankgame that after years of starving they are willing to forgive a lot if only they finally get that tankgame for the WWII era they waited for so long. But that does not make the many problems with TvT go away, nor does it make SF less shallow in tactical depth and the way the missions play.

Of course you have all freedom in the world to disagree with my conclusions, and I am not attacking you for disagreeing. But so far you do not know what it is that you disagree with - you need to wait until the review is out. ;) And if you like the game after having spend money on it, the better for you. But I do not, and I name my reasons - not here, but in the review. It's what I see as valid and solid reasons, and not just few of them.

And no, it is not because of SBP that I don't like SF - I bought SF hoping for the better even after the demo left me unimpressed, hoping for improvements, if you read my preview on basis of the demo you see that I already was careful. The planned chapter of a direct comparison with SBP I have left out in the final review, because it was pointless, the things that could be compared between two sims from two such different eras in case of SF simply were not there to the needed extent for giving any such comparison a meaning. But this also is explained in the review.

Stabiz,

if you have read carefully you will have noted that Neal meanwhile has stepped back from some of his positive comments about TvT, and I know from himself that he is even angry both over the state the game is in, and about the behavior of the publisher. Neal had released a post short time after the review on TvT, that he was not aware of some of the massive problems the game had, especially with MP, and that it made him correct his first impressions. Just search for it. originally Neal wanted to do the official tanksim review for SF himself, but he told me that the game gives him "problems". That'S why I am jumping into the gap now. Originally and while I already was writing, my review was meant to be just an extenisve thread in this forum.

I'm sorry that I cannot meet expectations fans of the game have for a positive review, but you need to grant me the freedom to describe it as I see it - not like you want me to see it. I give my reasons in detail, and once you learned about them, you can chose whether or not you want to agree. But I am not in the business of supporting sales policies, nor do I accept an obligation to serve the interest of the pro-SF community when forming my opinion of the game'S quality. I tried to be objective, and with a clean conscience I claim: I succeeded in that.

;)

stabiz

11-28-08, 09:32 AM

I know Neal stepped back a bit on his TvsT review, but that was mainly because of online issues, a part of these games that dont interest me too much. (Only use racing sims online)

Fair enough, I guess, but do you consider the Silent Hunter series a simulation? To me SF seems like Silent Hunter with tanks and no dynamic campaign? Sure, AI could be crappy at times, it always is, as it is in the SH series vanilla.

Dowly

11-28-08, 11:30 AM

Having tried both of them (Tho, havent finished either yet), my vote goes to Steel Fury. It just feels more like 'war'.

JScones

11-28-08, 05:24 PM

Lieste

11-28-08, 05:43 PM

Having watched the available videos for SF, it does appear that there is a certain amount of aimless zig-zagging. It isn't clear where the objective or enemy strongpoints are from watching the unit's behaviours.

This might be easier to follow if you are controlling the movement and action, and have studied the briefing and maps.

GlobalExplorer

11-29-08, 05:17 AM

I usually won't come often to defend skybird. But if he posted his personal, subjective opinions in his review, he has to apologize to nobody.

Because that is what I am interested in. Not the average reviews ( that includes subsim / wargamer reviews) that always give ratings between 70-100%, like there are no bad games.

These reviews might be very detailed and elaborate, but at the end I am as smart as before. Because even if the reviewer didn't like the game, he/she was much too afraid to step on anyones toes, and dodged the issue.

To hell with that. Bring on subjective honest opinions, and conclude reviews with a plain statement how you liked the game. Even if that means writing that you hated it, with the result that a lot of people will disagree with you.

It's a bit like rating music, women, food, etc. You might make elaborate considerations, but in the end it's only taste that matters.

Skybird

11-29-08, 06:30 AM

JScones,

I must say that you and some others exaggerate a bit. I did not say anything that could be understood as "my review being the ultimate and authoritive word" on it, as you put it. I just indicated here and in the simHQ forum, that a review is about to be released and that it will disagree a bit with what is said on SF so far, and one guy at lighthouse got me a bit engaged in a discussion about what he said - and that was what I would have described to be the utimate authoritive word on his opinion. Magnum of sim HQ also has announced here and at simHQ that he is about to release a review next week, and his preview was psoitive - and people leave him alone over his announcement. Me preparing people a bit that I do not see it as positive, gets engaged even before the text is released!

But that brief note already was enough to earn me five mails meanwhile, of very angry and personal attacking content, two just arrived this morning, three yesterday morning, and one of them, as I said at simHQ, almost qualifies as a hate mail. Now what you say on that attitude being ultimate and authoritive? My two brief informations on a reivew coming were enough to already bring up many people against me, and trying to engage me in disucssions about my review, pushing me into a defensive posture - although they even have not read it!

I did it at simHQ, and I ask here again: hold your breath and criticsm until he review has been released, then read and consider it, then give me also some right to disagree with maybe your own views and give me some space to have my own opinion - and what is then left of it and you think is badly done by me - for that you can crucify me - after the review has been released. I explained my reasons why I think it is a good game, but a sub-standard sim, its all there. I hope that request is reasonable enough for everybody now.

Meanwhile, until Neal has set it up hopefully today, and speaking as a moderator now, I strongly recommend and kindly ask you all to withhold any further discussion about this review that none of you know so far, until it is released. Feel free to continue the debate once it is released, but until then: please put it voluntarily on temporary interrupt, if you please. I don't think that is too much asked for.

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/8128/ampelgelb20rg2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

ICDP

11-29-08, 08:13 AM

Skybird

11-29-08, 08:48 AM

I believe the reason is that you seem have destroyed any illussion of objectivity to do an unbiased review Skybird. You have sated publicly on at least 4 forums that you don't like Steef Fury because it doesn't compare well to SBP. Anyone with a modicum of intelligence will know that the two should not be compared. You have stated that in your opinion SF is more of an action game, clearly this statement is very confusing. How can a sim with realistic tank physics, optics, tank operation and ballistics be deemed an action game?

Now please don't take this as an attack upon you, I am simply explaining the reasons why some on these forums seem aggressive to your stance on Steel Fury. Also the fact that Magnum on SimHQ has not been attacked is because he hasn't been publicly comparing it to a modern, expensive and military standard tank simulation. A comparison that is clearly not a very valid one.

First, in fact I have said in the forums that I once planned but actually did not compare it to SBP, and skipped a previously planned chapter on detailed comparison for being pointless - the healdine is there, and then I say why it makes not much sense for the reasons you guys are mentioning as well: that SBP simply is too much ahead in developement. My remarks on SF vs SBP are short, therefore. I also explain my understanding of what contributes to a simulation actually being a simulation: and just correct driving and shooting physics is not enough, by far not.It is about how believable the virtual reality is that you are confronted is, and the levels of freedom it gives you, and the interaction between it and you, and the quality of it's reaction to you. On an abstract level, such things could be compared - not only between SF and SBP, but very different types of sims, too.

Second, I quote from simHQ:

Nevertheless, certai9n aspects of general quality can be compared between these two sims - or Falcon4 and SHIII. These are items that do not rely on the simulated ocntent, but "surrounding" factors like ergonomy of interfaces,handloing issues, attention to specific details that cost or add immersion, and so on. Seen that way, SBP and SF can be compared indeed. but the quality gap regharding "simulation" and "AI" is so huge in this comparsion that including a detailed comparison proved to be pointless.

I again ask you all to wait with my crucification until you have read the review that maybe already today will be out. You all are free to see it different than me, and still: there are some people as well who see it much like me. I gave my reasons for what I liked and what not. but you will need to read them first.

"Simulation" versus "game" is not problematic as long as one sees it not as different entitities but as the two opposing poles at the two ends of a specturm. You can move the general sliders more to the one or more to the other side. SBP is a training tool for the military - however , most public customers will use it like any game they use, and it serves that role quite well - despite the sim-heavy element. To say SBP cannot be used as a game, is nonsense. I just does not put much effort on the usual surropunding package features of games, but whether you use it as a game or a seriour trainer, depends on your approach to it. The degrees of freedom to vary this approach, differs with the various games/sims.

Its like with FS: you can tune its options so easy that it is almost a pure, simplistic action flyer. You can tune it up, replace the cockpits and FM, and approach it with charts and maps, and you can copy procedures and behavior from reality - then you are in a whole different league. But never will an action shooter offer you similiar degrees of freedom in how to appraoch it and how to take the game.

Yes, I think SBP is the superior tank simulator. No - I do not make a big issue of it in the review.

And third, I am getting a bit tired of endlessly needing to defend myself over a review that so far nobody knows in details. Therefore, this thread gets locked until the review has been released. It's a bit ironic that I announced that review coming and that it disagrees with wide opinion in order to prepare people for it and avoid right that what I seem to have caused now. Obviously the wrong decision by me. Next time I let it fall down from heaven and onto people's head like a steel hammer.

This thread gets unlocked again once the review is out.

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/254/ampelrotmn3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Skybird

11-29-08, 12:36 PM

A pre-release of my review now is available:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=996827&posted=1#post996827

Feel free to continue to discuss and debate and share your opinions on the game.

This thread is now re-opened.

http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/7745/ampelgruenzg9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

stabiz

11-29-08, 02:55 PM

I somehow get the feeling the devs have stolen your lunch money or something back in the day. This review is one of a kind, in the way that it differs from all others I have read.

And more SBP-nonsense?

Do you or do you not consider the Silent Hunter series simulations?

GlobalExplorer

11-29-08, 04:33 PM

Thanks for a very honest review. I will play the demo again before I make my decision.

To all the people attacking sb, I may not like him, but why can't you accept his ****ing opinion? The man has a right to warn others that he did not like the game. I am sick and tired of those who lead others blindly into another pointless purchase after another, just for the sake of not rocking the boat.

Lack of immersion is a big issue, and the comparison to IL2 is valid. How many people bought it only because everyone repeated how perfect it was, only to find out later how lifeless it is?

HunterICX

11-29-08, 08:09 PM

but why can't you accept his ****ing opinion?

thats the beauty about Opinions, it can be accepted or simply not.
because I've my own opinion which differs from another, or has some similarity.

I am sick and tired of those who lead others blindly into another pointless purchase after another, just for the sake of not rocking the boat.

I skip reviews due the fact above, its his opinion about his experience, I rather try it on my own (DEMO's or Rental) to see how it is and how I experience it, I do have ears for real problems like when the game does not work properly like been proofed in TvT34.

HunterICX

Pillar

11-29-08, 11:28 PM

I pretty much agree with the review.

Skybird

11-30-08, 04:53 AM

I got more PMs yesterday, of course since it is private I do not identify the sender, but in one of them the sender said this which really is worth to be remembered:

"Great review!:rock: It does not define the game, just your perception of it."

And that is what it is about. Approaches to a game, expectations, demands all differ, and it makes not much sense to start fighting about such differences. Of course I am focussing on my own perception of it - how to do it any different? It'S about MY level of tolerance for things I see as being done not too well, and it is about MY demands of what I want to see in a tanksim in order to call it that. Neal is more forgiving in his reviews than I am, everybody of you who is around long enough to remember the times of Sub Command, will remember the controveries back then. You can bet that his review of SF would be different and probabaly more positive than mine, while a review of TvT done by me probably would be more negative than his is. Our approaches and expectations simply are different. And thus his review will be as much focussed on HIS perception of the game, as has my review focussed on my perception.

Can it ever be any different? The box reads "an epic tank battle simulator". This pretty much set the standard for me to which I compared it all, so to speak. and I found it to be not epic, but small in mission designs, (thank Goid, since evn the reocmmend spec did not aloow the game to be run at reasonable frames at higher than low and low-medium settings), and why I am hesitant to call it a simulator, I have explained in the review, it has much to do with questionable AI, the way the gameplay unfolds, and as far as I am concerned: lacking immersion.

Some may have noted that I have mistaken the classification labels. the depicted Panzerkampfwagen IV of course are not the Tigers as which I called them - the Tiger was version VI, with the Panther being version V. My apologies for that mismatching of names. Since I did not go into system specifics at all, my fault thank God has had no further consequences.

porphy

11-30-08, 05:23 AM

Thorough review, and it is quite clear what you see as shortcomings of the game, and why.

Sometimes I wonder why it seems to be so difficult to make a good simulation that comes also with immersion and atmosphere. Or is it that when simulation falls short in some vital areas like AI, tactics, etc, the immersion goes out of the window quite quickly? It's all about illusion, a good simulation doesn't let you see through to the level of mechanics in most circumstances, and also keep producing believable behavior and results from a wide array of player actions. In less stellar simulations you are presented with an environment which clearly is made of puppets on strings and a puppet master that struggles to make anything good with his material!

Fires up SPB Pro Pe and prepares to be carried away again :cool:

cheers Porphy

Skybird

11-30-08, 05:50 AM

Sometimes I wonder why it seems to be so difficult to make a good simulation that comes also with immersion and atmosphere. Or is it that when simulation falls short in some vital areas like AI, tactics, etc, the immersion goes out of the window quite quickly? It's all about illusion, a good simulation doesn't let you see through to the level of mechanics in most circumstances, and also keep producing believable behavior and results from a wide array of player actions. In less stellar simulations you are presented with an environment which clearly is made of puppets on strings and a puppet master that struggles to make anything good with his material!

Couldn't agree more.

melin71

12-01-08, 02:49 PM

I have played the game for some days now, and im just love it! best tanksim I have played seens panzer Elite. I did bought T34 vs tiger, and that too is a good game, but not so good as steel fury, way to few missions in TvsT. I have not played trow all mission yet and im not playing in full realism yet, and still i love the game. I guess that some great mods will come to this game, i have allready put in the sound mod, only thing that it do miss multiplay, but i allmost allways play offline becourse all dam cheaters online. But is should be fun with a squad of something and usercreated battles.

saw some reviews on the game, comperd the game with steel beast, like compard silent hunter 4 with a nuclar sub. plain stupid.

sorry for my bad english.

Lieste

12-01-08, 06:17 PM

This is a new one :o

Messages about some bugs started to appear soon after release of the western version of Steel Fury. We were rather surprised, because most of these bugs were not met in the russian version of the game neither before patches, nor after them.
The first bug is the absence of gunsight reticle in PzKpfw IV F2. It is rather critical, because it is absolutely impossible to aim without reticle, even if you don't care how the sight actually works and you don't make any range corrections. The analysis of the game resources has shown that there are errors in the description of the PzKpfw IV F2 gunsight. Besides, muzzle velocities for some projectiles differ from the russian version. Velocities of HE and HEAT projectiles for PzKpfw IV F2 are among them. It is rather critical too, because muzzle velocity influences trajectory of projectile's flight greatly, as well as range. Mechanism of range corrections for HE and HEAT projectiles of the PzKpfw IV F2 would work completely wrong, even if the gunsight reticle was present in the western version of Steel Fury.
The second bug is the problem with tracks damages. It is absolutely unexpected to us. Crewmen cannot leave the tank for repairing tracks in russian version of the game. There is an "auto Track repair" setting in the russian game options too, but if it is switched on, nobody leaves the tank. Russian version does not have possibility to loose tracks by pressing "T" key (what is it ever done for in western game version, I wonder?). And the driver obeys orders after repairing of tracks.
We have found other things in game resources, which are absent in russian version. They are files of unknown missions which are not present in the game; descriptions of sights which are not used anywhere. It seems that some other bugs can show up in future in western version of the game only.
Graviteam - the Steel Fury developer is not responsible for all these defects and bugs for sure, because russian version of the game is free from these bugs. The reason why Discus Games(localizator) and Lighthouse Interactive(western publisher) have released their own buggy version instead of translating russian version is not absolutely clear to us.
Considering all aforesaid, we have decided to create a patch (http://www.lighthouse-interactive.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=1788) which will change the unreliable western version of Steel Fury into stable russian version. All text, subtitles and sounds are kept from the western version. The rest is taken from the russian game.

Russian Steel Fury modding community.
-Hemul
-egorOgr
-Tanx

Boats

12-01-08, 06:37 PM

Well that explains why I'm always throwing tracks. With the T34 I can't get more than 500 yards before the track comes off.

The first time it happened I was in the gunners position, the next thing I know I'm outside the tank and the side of the tank is in front of me rocking. I did an external look around and saw two crew members at the front of the tank making motions as if they're working with lug wrenches. When in this position in the first person view you can really see how detailed the tanks are on the inside because the side of the tank becomes transparent.

Another bug I think they've included is a weak hit event. As in nothing really happens to your view (like maybe shake a little) nor do you hear anything unusual when your tank is hit by higher caliber guns. All you get is a message that your getting hit. The rifle caliber ammunition is clear when it pings against the armor.

stabiz

12-01-08, 06:45 PM

http://www.lighthouse-interactive.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=1788&sid=e44bae086c1d30b03729b8569ef98acd

Lieste

12-01-08, 06:46 PM

Everyone sits around waiting for ages, for a software developer and publisher to do localisations - then it comes out, with none of the existing issues fixed, and with 'new improved errors'.... and the kicker is the solution is to patch back to the original version, which was available right at the start... <sigh>

melin71

12-01-08, 08:37 PM

Lieste

12-01-08, 10:19 PM

Try estimating the range, setting it for the mg scale and firing short bursts till you have the corrected range.
Transfer this range to the main gun scale, and fire... if you are still missing by a long way then something isn't right ;)

Skybird

12-02-08, 06:56 AM

anyway to reload the ammo within a mission? i seems to run out of ammo if the mission be long. specielt on a singel mission im played a couple of times, they shall take a bridge and im surposed to defend the beach head, Im driving back up to a hill and shoot at the enemy tanks from there, distanst between 800 m to 1300 m, and...hehe..im a rather poor shooter, and my comander dont say the distanst to me. seems not to see that im seeing.

Get closer! ;) even when you hit at 1300m, chnaces are the shot will not do much damage, if any at all. The projectiles were not as powerful as they are today. My grandpa was tanker in Russia, he never talked much about it, but as a young boy I asked him often. Once he said they had rarely fights over 1km especially when the logistic chains were strained and they had to be careful with their ammo. Even shots that hit were wasted often at that distance, since they did not do anything in too many cases, from a logistics point of view. I don't know what kind of tanks he was in, though. I assume it was different with the later Panthers and Tigers.

Save your ammo, get closer.

Boats

12-02-08, 08:39 PM

Patched the game and have found the T key still throws the tracks. I thought it was suppose to rotate the periscope. The manuel isn't translating well.:D I also found that after I patched the game as commander I have less control over the tank than before the patch. The tank has a mind of its own regardless of way points or the F key thingy.

They should allow us to d/l the russian version and apply the western sound files to it. Like how you can get the non-english speaking ai nationalities to speak English in IL2.

I dunno, between BIA HH, COD 5 being more quakish than ever (modern red dot sighting systems on some of the guns as well as uber smg's, and the dogs. They must've placed cloning kennels on the maps.), T34vT, and now this I'm thinking I might just get underway in SH4 again and let the dust settle.
At least I can accomplish two tasks on the sub. Run a partrol and practise my mandolin.

tigershuffle

12-06-08, 04:47 PM

Hi, well they have managed to translate Steel Panzers mod in to English........ hows that for a nice little expansion

just visit here

http://www.lighthouse-interactive.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=1821

:lol: pretty fast work dontcha think :up:

Eugene

12-06-08, 06:02 PM

Thanks very much, Tigershuffle. Significant mprovements and additions. Interestingly, I can only enable and run it WITHOUT the unofficial patch 0.1 enabled. Works with Steel Sound 1.1 fix though.

JScones

12-06-08, 11:30 PM

A question for those of you who "get around"...

Which forum has the most activity regarding Steel Fury? I'm talking announcement of mods and support and stuff. I received my boxed version during the week and have been getting right into it, having installed the unofficial patch, sound mod and panzer mod combo (on that it's great to see JSGME being used with SF, however, users should go straight to my webpage and grab the latest version as v1.5 is quite old).

Some may have noted that I have mistaken the classification labels. the depicted Panzerkampfwagen IV of course are not the Tigers as which I called them - the Tiger was version VI, with the Panther being version V. My apologies for that mismatching of names. Since I did not go into system specifics at all, my fault thank God has had no further consequences.
:rotfl: Apart from demonstrating your lack of knowledge of the subject matter, a knowledge which is kinda, well, necessary in order to be seen as knowing about what you write. Anyone with even the most basic understanding of WWII tanks can tell the difference between a PzKpfw IV Ausf F2 and PzKpfw VI Ausf E. I mean, you would never label an M1A1 as a Bradley, would you? And if someone did in a critical review of SBP, would you take it, or them, seriously after that? ;)

Sorry, but I would expect an "official" reviewer representing tanksim.com to know the differences between most well-known tank types.

So, with this in mind, why are you surprised by the criticism you are receiving? I doubt it's just because you are critical of the game. Don't get me wrong, you have made some observations with which I totally concur (I just read your review after spending the better part of the week playing the game and forming my own opinion), but when they're hidden behind basic research errors as well as distracting spelling errors, grammatical errors, and a suggestion that you can't understand why a $50 tank simulator for the masses doesn't equal a $125 tank simulator intended for contemporary military training, you really lose your credibility (for example, comments such as "Is SF really a tank simulation able to rival SBP in the simulation department?". I think you'll find that you may well be one of a very limited few that would even be pondering this odd comparison, as most people understand the different audience that each aims for).

Anyway, that's my opinion. FWIW Steel Fury looks like it will meet my definition of "simulation", even moreso if/when the modders get fully behind it (there's movement in this area already). I like to think of SF in Dec 2008 as SH3 in Mar 2005. Nothing overly spectacular by itself, but with the right mods it has the potential for a title that befits the bold statement on the case (and let's not forget, SH3 called itself "the most impressive, realistic and gripping naval simulator" when it was released, a very optimistic statement that really was not achieved until heavily modded). Anyone who plays SH3 with GWX, or one of the other super mods, will be quite thankful that they were not influenced by a misguided review like the one you're offering for SF.

JScones

12-06-08, 11:49 PM

woofiedog

12-07-08, 04:12 AM

zvlad

12-07-08, 05:32 AM

Oh, another reason why I'd like to know the "best" SF forum to camp at is that after analysing the game files, I am thinking of developing a simple tool that gives you, your tank, your platoon, whatever, an identity. I guess bringing the "personal" aspects which are inherant in Panzer Elite to Steel Fury. Or, if you are familiar with it, something like what SH3Cmdr brings to SH3.

I'd also like the tool to be able to award medals and promotions based on mission performance, but I haven't sussed out where/how that info is stored (surely not just in the profile file?).

So for this to work, I'd need to converse with those that know best what they are talking about, but I'd prefer not to join more than one other forum.

Now
The information on game of Steel Fury:
www.steelfury.info (http://www.steelfury.info)
http://tanksim.org.ru/ (http://tanksim.org.ru/)
forum
http://tanksim.org.ru/forum/viewforum.php?f=4&sid=143d858914fcc4da62f75cceb54a259a (http://tanksim.org.ru/forum/viewforum.php?f=4&sid=143d858914fcc4da62f75cceb54a259a)

With the best regards,
Vladimir Zayarniy
Developer Steel Fury

www.graviteam.com (http://www.graviteam.com/) (coming soon: updating will be 20-25 december 2008)
http://graviteam.com/en/projects/STEEL%20FURY (http://graviteam.com/en/projects/STEEL%20FURY)

Lurchi

12-07-08, 03:19 PM

Very good anyway, I installed the Unofficial patch + Steel Soundmod + Steel Panzer mod right away and everything works fine as far as I can tell.
I agree with this! I installed the same Patches/Mods and now SF "feels" even better. Yeah, some Panzer Elite Style crew/tank/ammunition management would be great. I have to say that i really start to like Steel Fury and i think there should be a lot of modding potential - i would love to see a Jagdpanther or SU-100 one day.

Especially the After Battle Hit Analysis is pretty cool:

Russian Masterpiece T-34 took some 5cm PzGr 40 but remained victorious ...
http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/2553/shot200812072046300000mq9.th.jpg (http://img48.imageshack.us/my.php?image=shot200812072046300000mq9.jpg) http://img356.imageshack.us/img356/5183/shot200812072047250001df8.th.jpg (http://img356.imageshack.us/my.php?image=shot200812072047250001df8.jpg)
... unlike this poor Pz. II and its crew :cry:
http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/1739/shot200812072048500002hz3.th.jpg (http://img184.imageshack.us/my.php?image=shot200812072048500002hz3.jpg)

Lurchi

12-07-08, 04:28 PM

Thanks,

luckily i only faced Panzer IIIs in that scenario. With all those hits i received i would have been dead long before if those were Pz IVs with a long 75mm. Dying is something i become really accustomed to in Steel Fury.

Biggest danger to me are Anti-tank guns as i am unable to spot them before they fire. I also have problems with shooting at longer distances but all in all i enjoy SF a lot as it gives the player a feeling of chaos during a battle.

Well, i am also very fond of tank-killers and the Jagdpanther is surely king along with the ultra-flat Jagdpanzer IV and the SU 100. Hetzer and StuG would be nice too but i honestly have no clue why you like the crappy JPz I :88):D

JScones

12-07-08, 05:35 PM

JScones... Besides here at Subsims, there are a few sites that are actively covering Steel Fury and a few of the other tank sim games that are out. But here is a site that you might want to take a look at...

T34 v Tiger Game Forums: http://www.t34vtiger.com/forums/index.php

And a few others...

Lighthouse Interactive/Steel Fury General Discussion: http://www.lighthouse-interactive.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=44

Tanksim.org.ru: http://translate.google.com/translate?sourceid=navclient&hl=en&u=http%3a%2f%2ftanksim.org.ru%2f
Now
The information on game of Steel Fury:
www.steelfury.info (http://www.steelfury.info/)
http://tanksim.org.ru/ (http://tanksim.org.ru/)
forum
http://tanksim.org.ru/forum/viewforum.php?f=4&sid=143d858914fcc4da62f75cceb54a259a (http://tanksim.org.ru/forum/viewforum.php?f=4&sid=143d858914fcc4da62f75cceb54a259a)

With the best regards,
Vladimir Zayarniy
Developer Steel Fury

www.graviteam.com (http://www.graviteam.com/) (coming soon: updating will be 20-25 december 2008)
http://graviteam.com/en/projects/STEEL%20FURY (http://graviteam.com/en/projects/STEEL%20FURY)
Thanks for the links guys. :up: :rock:
And have to say that the JSGME works great with SF... Thank's for this handy tool.
Thanks. I'm hoping that it gets a workout with SF, if you know what I mean. ;)

I'm running it lean though atm...
http://img371.imageshack.us/img371/9107/image1nw7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

The last mod is my first for the game. :know:

I've read on forums that some guys are working on making the AI Pz II playable, but it seems the 3D models format is "closed" at least for now, so it may be a while before seeing brand new playable units + interiors made by users, unless the devs release the tools to unpack models.
Yeah, hopefully it doesn't take too long for someone to "crack" the .go structure.

I'm hanging for fully integrated and playable PzKpfw III (an Ausf G would see the player having a real challenge!) and StuG III...

stabiz

12-07-08, 06:25 PM

Tiger and StuG are my favourites.:) It would also be cool to drive one of the beasts, like the Elephant. (Or maybe not:rotfl:)

woofiedog

12-07-08, 06:56 PM

JScones... You might want to take a look at this great mod by ICDP to add to that list. :D

Part 1 of new muddy & dusty SF textures completed : http://www.t34vtiger.com/forums/showthread.php?t=328

Skybird

12-07-08, 08:41 PM

:rotfl: Apart from demonstrating your lack of knowledge of the subject matter, a knowledge which is kinda, well, necessary in order to be seen as knowing about what you write. Anyone with even the most basic understanding of WWII tanks can tell the difference between a PzKpfw IV Ausf F2 and PzKpfw VI Ausf E.
Okay Mr. Brilliant, let's explain to me what a mislabelling of two WWII tank types has to do with recognizing and listing sound bugs, AI problems, pathfinding problems, unsatisfactory (in my taste) game design and shallow gameplay. Or in what way has my mishap with the type labels anything to do with the things I listed, when in fact I have not made the specs of the PzVI the basis of my assumptions? You fire a lot of hot rethorics there, but it is pointless. Show me where I have referred to weapons and armour-specs of WWII in general in my review? I haven't, nowhere, left it to very general, subjective impressions, with not technical system specifics at all. How could a comment be wrong if it even does not exist? What has this non-existing comment to do with remarks on completely different issues?

I mean, you would never label an M1A1 as a Bradley, would you? And if someone did in a critical review of SBP, would you take it, or them, seriously after that? ;)

If he does not attribute the characheristics of an M1 to an M2, but just labels the MBT an M1 Bradley, it is something that would make me smile, and I would judge his review by the rest of the details - sh1t happens. just if he thinks the Bradley should have the armour of an MBT, and his M1 has a T-80's 125mm gun, he would reveal that maybe he adresses technical details he does not know too well. but I have not adressed armour and weapons specifics, just left it to this brief comment:

On side of weapon effects, I would think that kinetic ammunition indeed looses destruction potential the greater the distance is, and that it is important from what aspect you are firing at your target. The basic formula “turret stronger than hull, front stronger than flank stronger than rear”; seems to be true here. The efficiency of explosive ammunition and MG I cannot judge, just that small calibre tracers can go right through infantry but eventually causing no harm, is irritating. I think it is eye candy only, the counting real projectiles are simply deactivated if the target is beyond a certain range, only the eye candy effect moves on in the linear direction – at least that’s how it feels to me.

Is that a detailed review of WWII-technology? Hardly. You make it appear as if I commented on things I could not know. Actually I did not comment on it because I knew from the beginning that I do not know these specifics. ;)

Sorry, but I would expect an "official" reviewer representing tanksim.com to know the differences between most well-known tank types.

Why? Other reviewers admitted as well they are no experts on WWII tanks and never did the real thing. About them - f.e. simHQ - you do not complain. A review is the personal opinion of the author, a subjective description of what he likes and does not like in the object of the review. Maybe because by simHQ's preview of the game you expect their review to be more friendly and mirroring your personal opinion to a wider degree, than mine? ;) I focussed on gameplay, AI, graphics, sounds, the way the missions unfold and impresses you, or impresses you not.

So, with this in mind, why are you surprised by the criticism you are receiving? I doubt it's just because you are critical of the game. Don't get me wrong, you have made some observations with which I totally concur (I just read your review after spending the better part of the week playing the game and forming my own opinion), but when they're hidden behind basic research errors

What basic research errors? All symptoms I listed and described I have reproduced at least two times in the according missions. And others observed them as well.

as well as distracting spelling errors, grammatical errors, and a suggestion that you can't understand why a $50 tank simulator for the masses doesn't equal a $125 tank simulator intended for contemporary military training,

Where have I said that in that review? Show me. As a matter of fact I said in the review that I gave up an earlier plan to do such a comparison, since I understood it to be "pointless" since SBP is too far ahead in quality and runs not inside the usual competition.

you really lose your credibility (for example, comments such as "Is SF really a tank simulation able to rival SBP in the simulation department?"
and now you quote me out of context, which reveals your true intention here, and that is not so much to adress the actual points I said and that you probably cannot counter, but to simply give it all a bad name. Actually, the full and correct quote in the correct order of paragraphs goes like this:

Of course, people knowing me, expected that I cannot avoid to compare Steel Fury with Steel Beasts Pro PE. Is SF really a tank simulation able to rival SBP in the simulation department?

Originally I planned to write a long separate chapter just about this comparison – but the longer I played SF, the more I realised that this would not make sense, since it is pointless. A tanksim is more than just correct physics, it is about formation interaction, a believable mission environment interacting and reacting to actions of the player, it is about AI, and general handling, tactical depth and opportunity to implement real world tactics. These are things you can compare even when taking into account that WWII and the present, tank technology from 70 years ago and from the present, cannot directly be compared to each other.

I think, by what I already have written, it is clear by now, that in the general tank department, SF in no way can compete with the benchmarks set by SBP. SBP is simply superior in AI, handling, mission design options, scaling, tactics, procedural realism. I personally also prefer the graphic style of the SBP world, but that is a question of taste, however, SBP gives you the greater maximum viewing distances, and WAY greater maps, if you want it that way.

Actually, I did not do that planned point-by-point comparison, and said that SBP should be considered to not run in the ordinary competition. It is like big blockbuster movies and some film festivals, the program openers. Usually they also do not run in the competition - because of the far greater budgets which allowed them to "outfinance" smaller budgets so easily that it would be unfair to le the small ones directly compete with the 100 million dollar blockbuster. Does it make sense to compare LOTR with "Stalker"? Hardly. you can only say what you like and not like in both movies.

Anyway, that's my opinion. FWIW Steel Fury looks like it will meet my definition of "simulation", even moreso if/when the modders get fully behind it (there's movement in this area already). I like to think of SF in Dec 2008 as SH3 in Mar 2005. Nothing overly spectacular by itself, but with the right mods it has the potential for a title that befits the bold statement on the case (and let's not forget, SH3 called itself "the most impressive, realistic and gripping naval simulator" when it was released, a very optimistic statement that really was not achieved until heavily modded). Anyone who plays SH3 with GWX, or one of the other super mods, will be quite thankful that they were not influenced by a misguided review like the one you're offering for SF.

at least here I agree and said so in two or three different forums now. It depends on whether or not modding is limited to cosmetical things only (skins, models, sounds), or if game mechanisms like AI can be accessed and redone, too, so to chnage the way in which the game plays. If the latter is possible, there is a chance indeed that in a year I will try this game again and maybe find it more worth to be played, but if it is not possible to adress AI and pathfinding, it will remain to be a very linear and shallow action game to me that dos not offer me what I want to see in a game or sim to come back to it.

-----

To All,

I have gotten some very unacceptable mails from three forums in the past 7 days, even before the review (just indicating I do not agree with the general view was enough to get some crazies upset), with some very juvenile phrasing at times, and two guys even qualifying for a description of hatemails. To say I 'm totally pissed by those attacking me on a personal level and thinking they must ignore every reply and correction about what I actually said when they misquoted me, would be an understatement. Most of these guys were apparrently coming from simHQ ahnd the lighthouse forum. That my views of the game would not be welcomed, I knew after just two hours of gameplay. But the way I got personally targetted and the points I listed got comfortably ignored and other nonsens got put in my mouth, I will not forget, and will not forgive. In three forums I said repeatedly that everybody is free to like the game nevertheless and to disagree with me on how he assesses the details I criticise, and repeatedly I wished those who like the game a happy gaming since it is the best that could happen to them now that they already have separated from their hard-earned cash. Will everybody please kindly keep that in mind. After all, every review is subjective, necessarily, and reflects not necessarily the general public'S views, but the author's views. but a good reviewer will give his reasons why he sees things the way he does, and that's what I did - en detail. Disagreement should be limited to discussing such things and how much they get valued and seen as important or not - not replacing such arguments with personal attacks and general questioning the person of the reviewer and his background.

But after the review was released, I got almost as many mails agreeing with me and thanking me for mentioning the issues I listed, and this really was of help.

Since Friday i also visited the family of an old girlfriend of mine, and just came back today afternoon. Her husband has left the BW just 18 months ago, having been a - tanker, a TC. He is interested in historic tanks and tankgames and sims, and yes, he probably does not mix up the Pz-IV and the PzVI and calling the wrong of the two as "Tiger". since I had deinstalled the game a second time meanwhile, and remain unimpressed by it, I took it with me and showed it to him, offering him to keep it. It's just that he reacted like me - after less than an hour he asked if I am sure that it is not MP-exclusively, since he had difficulties to take the missions and the AI as serious, and was annoyed by the bad sounds (no distance variations), and the bad pathfinding. He liiked the looks of it, but the historical correctness of how things unfold in a mission, he did not find convincing at all (and he is a hobby historians on WWII tanks, as I said). Like me, he rated it as a relatively shallow game, allowing not much tactical variation and challenge. In other words: he also got bored, and refused to keep the game.

I heared of some others that they see the game like this, too.

Now, I don't tell this to convince you to change your minds and agree with me - you just better understand that I am not the exception from the rule, but that there are quite some people who do not like the game as well - and like most people not liking a a game, they simply do not care enough for it as if they would show up in a community for a game they do not like. It's a normal thing.

Now feel free to carry on your discussions of the game and mods and patches and the usual stuff being done after a release - just leave my person, and personal targetting, out of it. After the last week I am not in the mood to take any more.

stabiz

12-07-08, 09:20 PM

I agree, there are probably lots of people who dont like it (this can be said of any game), but it seems most active users on the three forums I read about these games like it, so you are indeed an exception from the rule.

Hitman

12-08-08, 04:35 AM

Back to the game's discussion, I just got this reply from the SF publisher, regarding getting it in stores here in Spain:

There is no Spanish version nor distributor for these games. Best option would be to buy online.

E.g. via our shop http://www.lighthouse-interactive.com/shop/ (http://www.lighthouse-interactive.com/shop/) Free shipping.

Therefore, anyone interested in getting the game here in Spain better buy it via internet, because waiting to see it in the shops will result in missing it.

Hitman

12-08-08, 07:39 AM

Ok, I have a question for those of you who have already played the game a bit (Since I'm currently unable to get it here):

I have played Panzer Commander, iPanzer44 (Man, what a disaster of a game!) and the very best classic Panzer Elite (In which I didn't like the menu system). My question is:

How would you judge SF AI when comparing to those games? Where would it be in the list?

My current rating would be:

1.- Panzer Elite
2.- Panzer Commander
3.- iPanzer44 (Broken AI in fact)

Where would you place SF's AI in that list?

Thanks :up:

stabiz

12-08-08, 06:17 PM

Yeah, and I really love the Africa shots I have been seeing. Drooool.

JScones

12-09-08, 12:00 AM

I have played Panzer Commander, iPanzer44 (Man, what a disaster of a game!) and the very best classic Panzer Elite (In which I didn't like the menu system). My question is:

How would you judge SF AI when comparing to those games? Where would it be in the list?

My current rating would be:

1.- Panzer Elite
2.- Panzer Commander
3.- iPanzer44 (Broken AI in fact)

Where would you place SF's AI in that list?
I've spent many, many, many hours playing both Panzer Elite (with Ostpak mod) and Panzer Commander.

What is refreshing in Steel Fury is that I don't see friendly tanks zipping in front of me when I fire, or getting stuck beside me, or exposing themselves when trying to get into a formation, as I did in Panzer Elite. This doesn't mean that they don't sometimes do odd things in Steel Fury, it's just that to me they are not as obvious (or dumb) as they were in Panzer Elite.

Re enemy AI, that's harder for me to comment on. I've seen dumb things in both games, but nothing in Steel Fury to want me to go back to Panzer Elite.

I really hope modding will take off, when a few mission designers will have a good grasp of the editor and if we can add playable units (converted AI units & new models), there's potentially hours and hours of gameplay on various theaters.
That'd be cool. I really liked the Ostpak mod created for Panzer Elite. That extended the game to pretty much the whole war.

And with kind of a "Tank Commander" support app it'll be the icing on the cake :)
I spent last night investigating the files and how this may be possible. It'd take a bit of work due to the way Steel Fury works. That is, you don't actually have a Tank Commander in Steel Fury, just a profile. You can chop and change careers as you like with this profile.

Also, it seems that if you (unsuccessfully) attempt the same mission over and over, your statistics for each attempt cumulate. I don't like that; in a linear sense, if I attempt mission three 6 times and only complete it on the sixth, then only the statistics from the sixth (successful) attempt should be counted. This aggregation would need to be undone in order to maintain an accurate career profile.

I guess once a new career is started, the third party application could remove all other campaigns and missions from the game list (for the life of the campaign only of course) to "force" a linear career. Still early pondering days though. I'm drafting a list of questions to ask over at the lighthouse forum; I'll see where that takes me.

tigershuffle

12-12-08, 08:58 AM

Hi, well I think that the current AI.........is 'okay'. Its not groundbreaking but neither is it broken.

Enemy antitank emplacements defend themselves with small arms if approached by infantry, infantry try to run if a tank gets close to there trench/location (Theatre of War had this but for me most troops panicked all the time!! :roll: when a tank approached which annoyed the hell out of me after id just manouvered a bazooka to get a shot off).
I only just noticed how I could see the marks made by the enemy on my front armour from the tank drivers hatch......thats real enough for me.

You can get your 'wingmen' to get out of your way by altering the formation or spacing in F8 map view.
For me its a good game/sim. I can see it not been hardcore enough for some, but been someone who still plays fps stuff I guess a lot of 'casual' gamers would find it bewildering (I still fail miserably at Il2).

anyhoo 8.5/10 for me :up: ......and I think its gonna get better with Fall Blau and the other w.i.p.

Oh and a group hug for Skybird cos no one deserves personal insults just for offering his opinions. Lifes wayyy too short for that kinda bs.

ReM

12-12-08, 01:23 PM

Oh and a group hug for Skybird cos no one deserves personal insults just for offering his opinions. Lifes wayyy too short for that kinda bs.

I agree....peace all!

Skybird

12-12-08, 01:51 PM

Tanks, guys. :) Hope you enjoy your game for a long time to come.

Let me (us) know when they start to mod the AI. I would be interested in knowing where this would lead to.

Pillar

12-15-08, 10:19 AM

Are there any user missions for this game to download anywhere? I'm looking for a simple defense scenario but it appears every scenario shipped with the game has you on offense.

Skybird

12-16-08, 07:30 AM

Are there any user missions for this game to download anywhere? I'm looking for a simple defense scenario but it appears every scenario shipped with the game has you on offense.
Indeed, although some missions turn into some kind of minimal defense missions after the objective has been taken. but it is always very small.

The game has a mission editor coming with the game, and even an object editor as download. I didn't check it out, but what is holding you back to try yourself? ;)

Pillar

12-17-08, 07:27 AM

Low priority for me with respect to time management. I just don't want to devote the time to learning the editor. I take it there are no user missions available for download anywhere then?

Skybird

12-17-08, 07:55 AM

Since I lost interest in the game, I really don't know. Maybe best advise is to ask in the lighthouse forum. If they don't know over there, than you probably have to edit a mission yourself.

Pillar

12-17-08, 02:01 PM

Thanks Mikhayl!

Skybird

12-19-08, 10:36 AM

simHQ's review by Magnum is out.

http://www.simhq.com/_land3/land_116a.html

Those of you hating me for saying it is a good game but a not convincing sim, and with too many problems and shortcomings, will love to hear that Magnum treats it more gentle than I did. ;)

Magnum50

12-19-08, 01:40 PM

Thats because Magnum don't know poop about what a WW2 tank was capable of, he doesn't know how thick the front armor was and what type of round at what range it could be penetrated, he doesn't know how much lead you need at what angle and speed to engage a enemy tank, and which of the 5 different types of rounds to use... (well actually I do, the AP one, lol)...

What Magnum does know is that Steel Fury is a GREAT game for 40 bucks, with some problems and issues, and with so few WW2 armor sims out their this is a must buy...

What Magnum does know that reviews are opinions, and opinions are like.... lol, nevermind... but we all have one.

Magnum believes that a review of a game should be mostly, whats in it, what works, and what don't, and lite on the personal opinion.

Magnum is also more concerned about readers opinions on this game review then any other he has reviewed, because of his lack of knowledge in WW2 armor, and the passion of simmers.

And finally Magnum can't stand talking in third person... lol...

Seriously... Thanks for the link share, don't expect all to agree, especially persons looking for a true hardcore type simulation... thou with all the realism options on, I'd say it's hardcore enough. ;)

Lieste

12-19-08, 03:51 PM

Well I read both and got the same impression from both... Nice to look at, some sound issues, AI occassionally loses the plot completely. Not truely 'Epic' in scale despite the hyping, a fun game, and worth $40.

I assessed it as being a title to follow the progress of, but I personally can use that $40 more usefully elsewhere 'today'.

Maybe something got a bit lost in the translation somewhere as unless I'm mistaken Skybird is a non-english as a first language kind-of-guy.

I did think the TvT review was probably a touch over-enthusiastic though :lol: (yep I know not either of you guys).

Skybird

12-19-08, 04:04 PM

Magnum, it was a well-written, fun-to read review, and we agree when saying it is a good game, you said it that way at the end of your review, and so did I at the end of mine. We just disagree in our levels of forgiveness for some other shortcomings. So, if your ironic tone is a sign of anger about me mentioning you "treated it more gentle" - no need to be that, I think. It was not meant to minimize your review, just to say you judged some aspects of it by more forgiving standards than I did. ;)

EAF274 Johan

12-20-08, 05:02 AM

Pillar

12-20-08, 02:24 PM

After spending some more time with the game I think there is loads of potential here, and generally it's a good tank sim. The AI does need work, but that's a decent problem to have because it is one that can be overcome. Part of the problem with infantry is not their "Tactical AI" subroutines but the scenario design. When you see mobs of infantry running over the open, for example, that is scenario design. If you want them to take covered routes to their objectives, you need to build your own mission for that.

If you could somehow go into map mode and actually issue orders to any unit, like movement and target directives, including movement type and speed, the game might even be revolutionary for WW2 tactical games in general. (Hint.)

Skybird

12-20-08, 04:14 PM

I agree on the chances of modding - if the AI can be adressed by modders, else modding would be limited to cosmetical changes like skins, models, visual FX, that does not improve gameplay. Also, sounds are in urgent need to be adressed (volume corresponding to range is essential, dynamic sound travelling would be desirable). And finally, pathfinding routines, and behavior/manouvering under fire: that has little to do with mission design, but is touching the issue of AI micromanagement of units - and there is need for improvements.

Sledgehammer427

12-20-08, 09:40 PM

hmmm, you know, could there be a chance that one can put the fully modeled tiger for T-34 Vs. Tiger into Steel Fury? I mean, would the two games be similar enough to cross-mod?

zvlad

12-22-08, 02:21 AM

Thank you Skybird and Magnum for your reviews. I have already bought the game, but usuallly I like to wait until after reviews appear, and then it's good to read diverse opinions about the strengths and weaknesses of the game.

I am quite happy with Steel Fury in its current form (after the unofficial patch). I think Steel Fury does a good job at simulating tank combat, thanks to the excellent terrain and the combination with AI infantry and artillery. I don't know much about armour penetration values etc, but it "feels" OK to me, and that's usually realistic enough for me ;). For me the realism of SF lies in the possibilities to use combined arms tactics and the feeling of "being there" when I see the infantry guys ducking for cover in their trenches.

One thing though that needed more attention in both reviews, I think, is the poor quality of the game manual. It's badly translated English, which can be very confusing, and it does not clarify some essential game functions.

Thanks for opinion on game.
We (developers of Steel fury) did not do the English version of game.
The legal owner did an English translation.
From news:
We update our site - www.graviteam.com (http://www.graviteam.com)
Including resources on game of "STEEL FURY:Kharkov1942"

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With Christmas and coming New Year!!!
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