Slam Obama (merged)

[SUBMAN1]

:o

-S

http://www.aim.org/aim-column/obamas-international-socialist-connections/

An excerpt:

Campaign workers for Senator and presidential candidate Barack Obama are under fire for displaying a flag featuring communist hero Che Guevara. But Obama has his own controversial socialist connections. He is, in fact, an associate of a Chicago-based Marxist group with access to millions of labor union dollars and connections to expert political consultants, including a convicted swindler.

Obama's socialist backing goes back at least to 1996, when he received the endorsement of the Chicago branch of the Democratic Socialists of America (DSA) for an Illinois state senate seat. Later, the Chicago DSA newsletter reported that Obama, as a state senator, showed up to eulogize Saul Mendelson, one of the "champions" of "Chicago's democratic left" and a long-time socialist activist. Obama's stint as a "community organizer" in Chicago has gotten some attention, but his relationship with the DSA socialists, who groomed and backed him, has been generally ignored....

[SUBMAN1]

Since we are on the subject!

-S

http://www.aim.org/aim-column/obamas-communist-mentor/

Obama’s Communist Mentor

In his biography of Barack Obama, David Mendell writes about Obama's life as a "secret smoker" and how he "went to great lengths to conceal the habit." But what about Obama's secret political life? It turns out that Obama's childhood mentor, Frank Marshall Davis, was a communist.

In his books, Obama admits attending "socialist conferences" and coming into contact with Marxist literature. But he ridicules the charge of being a "hard-core academic Marxist," which was made by his colorful and outspoken 2004 U.S. Senate opponent, Republican Alan Keyes....

[SUBMAN1]

McCain is not much better! :huh:

-S

http://www.aim.org/aim-column/mccain-follows-obama-down-socialist-road/


McCain Follows Obama Down Socialist Road


AIM Column | By Cliff Kincaid | October 8, 2008


It is terrifying to see our financial system crumbling because of corruption on Wall Street, aided and abetted by government policies of too much federal spending, debt, and intervention in the economy. But it is also troubling to see our economic system of free enterprise slipping away as the candidates of both major political parties propose more federal intervention, spending and debt as solutions to these problems. Our media have an obligation to inform the American people that we are moving into a full-blown socialist economy.

At this point, with the financial crisis continuing to grow, isn’t it apparent that the “bailout” plan was in no real sense a “rescue,” as both the liberal and conservative media were calling it? ...

[XabbaRus]

And what? Why is it that as soon as someone displays any sort of left leanings, they are branded a socialist or communist and that is seen as bad. So I guess Europe must be bad, as it is essentially social democratic.

Subman you really are scraping the bottom of the barrel.

[Skybird]

The headline is misleading for the intended purpose, it must be "That Guy's International COMMUNIST Connections". My name is Sky McBird, and I approved this message.

[mrbeast]

..........and the Subman propaganda campaign rolls on..........yawn.....:zzz: :dead:

[AVGWarhawk]

Obama exhibits some Socialist ideals. However, this country was not based on Socialist ideals.

Subman is allowed to have his propoganda machine rolling. It does make for some fun and converstation!

[Hylander_1314]

And what? Why is it that as soon as someone displays any sort of left leanings, they are branded a socialist or communist and that is seen as bad. So I guess Europe must be bad, as it is essentially social democratic.

Subman you really are scraping the bottom of the barrel.

That may well be what Europe is or is based on, but the United States of America is supposed to be based on the Rule of Law (fudimently different), that no man or entity of man is suppose to be above. That is why it is a Republic. Read the Feseralist Papers, the Anti-Federalist Papers, and Common Sense. That is what we're supposed to have, but men are corruptable.

So if a nation is based on the Rule of Law, Individual Liberty, and the Right to own Property, how can Socialism, or Communism coexist? Since they are the opposite of it. And while we're at it, Fascism isn't that much different as it applies the same principle government rule.

But what gets me is how Communism/Socialism is called the far left, and Fascism is called the far Right. To be more accurate as they are all totalitarian in nature, they should all be on one side of the scale, not opposites. The other side is Liberty. But the US of A is not so far as to say anarchy, as it is tempered by laws. These are set in the Constution and Bill of Rights.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6732659166933078950

[Flamingboat]

Whoa hold on now. Being a socialist is no longer a label you can apply exclusively to the left after Comrade Bush sent 700+ billion to Wallstreet. The right has to come up with a new smear after Comrade Bush's "bailout".

I never let the right get away with this issue. You all susidize people like cattle and dairy farmers and call the left communists when they want to sudsidize the healthcare to clean that same junk out of people's arteries.

[Flamingboat]

That may well be what Europe is or is based on, but the United States of America is supposed to be based on the Rule of Law (fudimently different), that no man or entity of man is suppose to be above.

This is meaningless when they can just go set aside or rewrite laws in a matter of 2 days. This has happened on a weekly basis under the Bush regime. Patriot Act, Wallstreet bailouts, wiretaps, etc.

[Skybird]

I love this extremist polarizing black and white painting: "rule of law" versus "socialism." :lol:

"Only a Sith deals in absolutes." (Obi Wan) ;)

Oh, and some of us over here live in republics as well, FYI. Germans, for example.

[Bewolf]

And what? Why is it that as soon as someone displays any sort of left leanings, they are branded a socialist or communist and that is seen as bad. So I guess Europe must be bad, as it is essentially social democratic.

Subman you really are scraping the bottom of the barrel.
That may well be what Europe is or is based on, but the United States of America is supposed to be based on the Rule of Law (fudimently different), that no man or entity of man is suppose to be above. That is why it is a Republic. Read the Feseralist Papers, the Anti-Federalist Papers, and Common Sense. That is what we're supposed to have, but men are corruptable.
So if a nation is based on the Rule of Law, Individual Liberty, and the Right to own Property, how can Socialism, or Communism coexist? Since they are the opposite of it. And while we're at it, Fascism isn't that much different as it applies the same principle government rule.

But what gets me is how Communism/Socialism is called the far left, and Fascism is called the far Right. To be more accurate as they are all totalitarian in nature, they should all be on one side of the scale, not opposites. The other side is Liberty. But the US of A is not so far as to say anarchy, as it is tempered by laws. These are set in the Constution and Bill of Rights.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6732659166933078950

You know, I was actually planning on answering to this post. But the more I read it, the more illogical and uneducated it becomes, to the point that I have no idea where to start anymore. I'd probably had to explain the differences between communism, socialism, capitalism, social capitalism, law in general, what constitutes a republic..basicly every term you threw in and mixed up here, first.

Seriously, go get a good book about different ideologies and what defines them. Your post more or less reads like a guy that watched too much Fox News without bothering to ever read up on the terms used there.

[AVGWarhawk]

Whoa hold on now. Being a socialist is no longer a label you can apply exclusively to the left after Comrade Bush sent 700+ billion to Wallstreet. The right has to come up with a new smear after Comrade Bush's "bailout".

I never let the right get away with this issue. You all susidize people like cattle and dairy farmers and call the left communists when they want to sudsidize the healthcare to clean that same junk out of people's arteries.

First of all, find me a smear the right has come up with concerning the bailout? I think you'll find Obama riding the horse of FEAR concerning in his speechs. Obama has been riding the horse of FEAR for many months. The people are buying it.


Subsidized cattle and dairy farmers? Well, we need to eat! Both right and left want to subsidize healthcare. Both have a different view on how to do it.

[Hylander_1314]

This is only because it has been allowed to happen. It is not the fundimental foundations. And if allowed to continue unabated, will result in a complete totalitarian regime.

Don't forget that Senor Boosh also said the Constitution is just a GD piece of paper. I really think he looks upon himself as the dictator of America. His push towards the NAU is to have more land to rule over. Call me crazy, but I really think the man to be power hungry.

The Patriot Act, give up more liberty for security. Franklin warned of this, though I wonder how many people know it.

Wallstreet bailouts. To give the government more control over the nations production as it now owns the industry, not the private citizen. This is totalitarian. Not wisdom.

Wiretaps, breaks the "thou shalt not" rules of the Bill of Rights. That the people shall be secure in their persons and their papers.

There is a long list of intrusions by government into the rights and daily lives of the private citizens that for the life of me, I can not understand how the American People, my countrymen can just let go on.

I myself prefer the animating contest of freedom over the tranquility of servitude. I do belive the framers are spinning like lathes in their graves at what this nation has become compared to what it was founded as.

So I do not disagree with you even though I may not share your views. And it is rediculous the way the "left" and the "right" point fingers at each other, as they are really on the same side of the spectrum with total control as the main focus. But the more we bicker back and forth, the more power they gain while we're not looking.

So to quote, I do not remember the author, "....the next time the redcoats won't be coming; they're already here".

[Hylander_1314]

And what? Why is it that as soon as someone displays any sort of left leanings, they are branded a socialist or communist and that is seen as bad. So I guess Europe must be bad, as it is essentially social democratic.

Subman you really are scraping the bottom of the barrel.
That may well be what Europe is or is based on, but the United States of America is supposed to be based on the Rule of Law (fudimently different), that no man or entity of man is suppose to be above. That is why it is a Republic. Read the Feseralist Papers, the Anti-Federalist Papers, and Common Sense. That is what we're supposed to have, but men are corruptable.
So if a nation is based on the Rule of Law, Individual Liberty, and the Right to own Property, how can Socialism, or Communism coexist? Since they are the opposite of it. And while we're at it, Fascism isn't that much different as it applies the same principle government rule.

But what gets me is how Communism/Socialism is called the far left, and Fascism is called the far Right. To be more accurate as they are all totalitarian in nature, they should all be on one side of the scale, not opposites. The other side is Liberty. But the US of A is not so far as to say anarchy, as it is tempered by laws. These are set in the Constution and Bill of Rights.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6732659166933078950

You know, I was actually planning on answering to this post. But the more I read it, the more illogical and uneducated it becomes, to the point that I have no idea where to start anymore. I'd probably had to explain the differences between communism, socialism, capitalism, social capitalism, law in general, what constitutes a republic..basicly every term you threw in and mixed up here, first.

Seriously, go get a good book about different ideologies and what defines them. Your post more or less reads like a guy that watched too much Fox News without bothering to ever read up on the terms used there.

Sorry, I don't watch Fox News. The info I do have comes from books. Papers, pamphlets, and a long list of historical documents. But to undrstand the US of A, one has to understand the foundations first. And what set it aside from the rest of the world.

[Bewolf]

And what? Why is it that as soon as someone displays any sort of left leanings, they are branded a socialist or communist and that is seen as bad. So I guess Europe must be bad, as it is essentially social democratic.

Subman you really are scraping the bottom of the barrel.
That may well be what Europe is or is based on, but the United States of America is supposed to be based on the Rule of Law (fudimently different), that no man or entity of man is suppose to be above. That is why it is a Republic. Read the Feseralist Papers, the Anti-Federalist Papers, and Common Sense. That is what we're supposed to have, but men are corruptable.
So if a nation is based on the Rule of Law, Individual Liberty, and the Right to own Property, how can Socialism, or Communism coexist? Since they are the opposite of it. And while we're at it, Fascism isn't that much different as it applies the same principle government rule.

But what gets me is how Communism/Socialism is called the far left, and Fascism is called the far Right. To be more accurate as they are all totalitarian in nature, they should all be on one side of the scale, not opposites. The other side is Liberty. But the US of A is not so far as to say anarchy, as it is tempered by laws. These are set in the Constution and Bill of Rights.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6732659166933078950
You know, I was actually planning on answering to this post. But the more I read it, the more illogical and uneducated it becomes, to the point that I have no idea where to start anymore. I'd probably had to explain the differences between communism, socialism, capitalism, social capitalism, law in general, what constitutes a republic..basicly every term you threw in and mixed up here, first.

Seriously, go get a good book about different ideologies and what defines them. Your post more or less reads like a guy that watched too much Fox News without bothering to ever read up on the terms used there.
Sorry, I don't watch Fox News. The info I do have comes from books. Papers, pamphlets, and a long list of historical documents. But to undrstand the US of A, one has to understand the foundations first. And what set it aside from the rest of the world.

I am pretty much aware of the US foundations. I'd also say I understand the american mindset, which, in principle, I even admire for it's independence and positive outlook to the future and the US' strong emphasisis on individual responsebility, some of what most of the EU countries could use a bit more temselves.

That does not change the fact, however, that the terms used by you are completly dissorted in their meaning and in parts pitted against each other or thrown together in ways that make absolutely no sense, neither from a political nor economical POV.

Labelling socialism as lacking law, for exaple, is so off it boggles the mind, and makes only sense if you take the far right capitalistic government system of the US as the absolute truth. Which of course, it is not, like anything else on this planet based on ideology.

[August]

Don't forget that Senor Boosh also said the Constitution is just a GD piece of paper. I really think he looks upon himself as the dictator of America. His push towards the NAU is to have more land to rule over. Call me crazy, but I really think the man to be power hungry

The problem with your theory is that dictators never give up their power, whereas Bush is going to walk away from it voluntarily come this February.

And he's right. The Constitution IS just a GD piece of paper. It's the laws and ideals that are written on it which are important, not the document itself.

[Flamingboat]

The problem with your theory is that dictators never give up their power, whereas Bush is going to walk away from it voluntarily come this February.

And he's right. The Constitution IS just a GD piece of paper. It's the laws and ideals that are written on it which are important, not the document itself.

Wow, this post made my jaw drop. Do you have any idea what you just said? He isn't walking away voluntarily, due to that so called "GD piece of paper" he can't stay more than 8 years, I assure you he would if he could.

You need to hit the library, that "GD piece of paper" known as the constitution is the reason we are not having this conversation in People's Factory Number 517...

[August]

The problem with your theory is that dictators never give up their power, whereas Bush is going to walk away from it voluntarily come this February.

And he's right. The Constitution IS just a GD piece of paper. It's the laws and ideals that are written on it which are important, not the document itself.
Wow, this post made my jaw drop. Do you have any idea what you just said? He isn't walking away voluntarily, due to that so called "GD piece of paper" he can't stay more than 8 years, I assure you he would if he could.

Yeah need to hit the library, that "GD piece of paper" known as the constitution is the reason we are not having this conversation in People's Factory Number 517...

And you need to take a reading comprehension course. I have bolded the relevant part for you. Do you seriously think that if the Constitution document should say burn up in a fire that we don't have a Constitution any more? :roll:

[Hylander_1314]

I didn't say socialism lacks law. If anything, as I understand it, it is more intrusive. So if I took off on a tangent, which I do from time to time, sorry.

But if you look at it, Socialism, Communism, Fascism, and Capitalism are all capitalist. Who "owns" the capital is the difference. Your capital is your means of production. Now if the US Gov. gets it's hands in the mix, it's a recipe for disaster. It takes our foundations and pushes them closer to the edge of the window. Especially since the primary job of the US Gov. is to secure and protect the rights of the people. Not to give them or take them away. Our rights according to the Declaration of Independence come from the Creator. Not from government.
"...that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights. Amongst them are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."
"....that to secure these rights, governments are instituted amongst men."

Thankyou for the compliments on our attitudes of independence, liberty and personal responsibility. But it (responsibility) too is lacking here. On the financial end, how many people use bankruptcy as a way of getting out of their debts. Or how many people think the government owes them. We used to have thing here called debtors prison, and believe it or not, quite a few of the founders spent time there.

I really railed on a close friend who ran up thousands in business investments and then had the audacity to say that it was his right to file bankruptcy since he couldn't afford them. Most of it was in advertising, so the salesreps for these advertisers are guilty of misleading him, but as I told him, he is the most responsible as he is the one who signed off on the contract without thinking it through thoroughly. I was really steamed with this, as he came to me for council on this, and we went over the flagging economy, the fact that when the markets fall into trouble, he is going to fall on hard times. If the people with money don't have it to spend, what is going to happen to the general populace? And trust me, I'm no economist, I never studied it, other than the general education supplied by the public schools (at the time called civics), and recommended reading by my instructors. I couldn't afford college, nor could my folks, and back then, there wasn't common knowledge of grants, and government assistance for advanced schooling. See I did it again.

And I do not harbor any ill will toward the forms of government other countries posess. But to try to integrate them into our form of a Constitutional Republic is counter to what it was founded as. But for the last 90 years our country has been referred to as a democracy, as it is taught that way in the school system, which is incorrect according to the founders. So from a very early age children are indoctrinated to believe a false form. Even Thomas Jefferson who started the "Democratic Republican Party" never referred to our nation as a democracy, nor did Hamilton, Franklin, Madison, Jay, or the other men who argued over what we should have, once independence was secured.

But the more involved the government here gets with business, the closer to a totalitarian system we get. Whether it be any one of them.

[Rockin Robbins]

Sheesh folks, let's agree to a couple of things. Let me toss 'em out one by one:

Bush is no conservative. Ronald Reagan was a conservative. Bush is no leader. Ronald Reagan was a leader, who commanded the respect of those who did not agree with him. What Bush does does not reflect on conservatives at all, or conservatism.

President Clinton was the best Republican he could be for six years. His whole presidency after 1994 was based on finding out what the Republicans wanted and doing it first. Although liberal by inclination, Clinton was an opportunist, who chose his actions by ease of accomplishment and estimated amount of popular acclaim that would result. Were Clinton president on September 11, 2001, he would have done exactly what President Bush did, including the war in Iraq, and for the same reasons.

Actually, both Bushes and Clinton were identical types of president. They would say they had a position, walk into a meeting and say, "but who cares what I think, let's make a deal." The only area where HW Bush showed any leadership was the war against terrorism and Iraq, and he was unable to explain satisfactorily why he did the right thing. That yields the same result as doing the wrong thing.

I am a conservative, but conservatives are making a grave mistake by calling liberals a bunch of pansies. If Obama is elected president (and I predict he will, God help us) and if he pulls out of Iraq (I believe he won't, among lots of other things he won't) our army will have a shadow when it returns and the shadow will gleefully switch from fighting trained and well-armed volunteers in their part of the world to killing defenseless civilians in our country. I would give 50% odds that within a couple of years of our return we will wake up to a large northeastern or Californian city being wiped off the face of the earth by a nuclear explosion. Note that it will be a liberal city.

At that point, all the Republicans who think the American liberals are a bunch of pansies will learn that they are wrong. The liberals are doing nothing more than giving the militant Islamic terrorists one last chance. Their reaction to the inevitable payback for their pullback from the foreign battlefield will be an unrestrained attack of unbridled fury and death. The war of the Republicans sacrificed American lives to avoid undue civilian carnage and tried to protect the innocent. The liberal backlash will do no such thing. The words "fuel-air bomb" will be literally burnt into your memory for the rest of your life. It will be middle eastern destruction, a war of unimaginable cruelty without regard for life or property, friend or foe. But unlike the Republican patty-cake war, it will work. After all, peace with an implacable enemy only results from resounding, complete victory in war.

You can make friends afterwards with the survivors, if any.

[Flamingboat]

I am a conservative, but conservatives are making a grave mistake by calling liberals a bunch of pansies. If Obama is elected president (and I predict he will, God help us) and if he pulls out of Iraq (I believe he won't, among lots of other things he won't) our army will have a shadow when it returns and the shadow will gleefully switch from fighting trained and well-armed volunteers in their part of the world to killing defenseless civilians in our country. I would give 50% odds that within a couple of years of our return we will wake up to a large northeastern or Californian city being wiped off the face of the earth by a nuclear explosion. Note that it will be a liberal city.

At that point, all the Republicans who think the American liberals are a bunch of pansies will learn that they are wrong. The liberals are doing nothing more than giving the militant Islamic terrorists one last chance. Their reaction to the inevitable payback for their pullback from the foreign battlefield will be an unrestrained attack of unbridled fury and death. The war of the Republicans sacrificed American lives to avoid undue civilian carnage and tried to protect the innocent. The liberal backlash will do no such thing. The words "fuel-air bomb" will be literally burnt into your memory for the rest of your life. It will be middle eastern destruction, a war of unimaginable cruelty without regard for life or property, friend or foe. But unlike the Republican patty-cake war, it will work. After all, peace with an implacable enemy only results from resounding, complete victory in war.

You can make friends afterwards with the survivors, if any.

Whoa there chief, you really need to go get some air, I'm not kidding. Go on a date, play with a cat or something. The terrorists don't have nukes. Only in paranoid fantasy Rush Limbaugh land do sand dwellers go from RPGs and Ak-47s to nukes. It just doesn't work that way.

Your fear mongering is off the charts.

[Sea Demon]

The terrorists don't have nukes.


If you liberals have your way...they will eventually. :yep:

[Flamingboat]

The terrorists don't have nukes.


If you liberals have your way...they will eventually. :yep:

*rolls eyes

[Sea Demon]

*rolls eyes

This is why you liberals aren't fit to run this country. I'm sure Obama is rolling his eyes to the threats America faces in the future as well.

[Flamingboat]

*rolls eyes

This is why you liberals aren't fit to run this country. I'm sure Obama is rolling his eyes to the threats America faces in the future as well.

I hate to tell you this, but republicans don't have a monopoly on the military. I was in the army. I met many liberals. They were mostly special forces, SEALs, etc. The run of the mill dumb grunt and truck driver is usually a right winger though. No surprise there.

[Sea Demon]

I hate to tell you this, but republicans don't have a monopoly on the military. I was in the army. I met many liberals. They were mostly special forces, SEALs, etc. The run of the mill dumb grunt and truck driver is usually a right winger though. No surprise there.

I was in the USAF. And deployed in joint operations. While raw politics was never really discussed, it was obvious to me most would be Republican as voters. I doubt you ever served in the military. Or if you did, you got a dishonorable discharge with the work ethic you describe yourself as having. I know three people who used to be in Army special forces and they are just as horrified of the Democrat Party as I am.

[Flamingboat]

I know three people who used to be in Army special forces and they are just as horrified of the Democrat Party as I am.

I knew a SF medic 18D blacker than shoe polish, who won't be hanging out with McLame anytime soon. I got a bad conduct discharge actually. Seems I don't take to kindly to authority. Can you imagine?

[Sea Demon]

I knew a SF medic 18D blacker than shoe polish, who won't be hanging out with McLame anytime soon.

OK. But you do know that demographically, the military has usually gone Republican. We all understand what happens to the military when Democrats have power. Those of us who served in the Clinton military remember. Things like the Democrats threatening to stop funding our soldiers who are in harms way doesn't help Democrats. Nor does it help your argument. I know these people largely go Republican by experience. It's why the Democrats were trying to throw out military ballots in Florida in 2000. They knew that as well.

[Frame57]

I know three people who used to be in Army special forces and they are just as horrified of the Democrat Party as I am.

I knew a SF medic 18D blacker than shoe polish, who won't be hanging out with McLame anytime soon. I got a bad conduct discharge actually. Seems I don't take to kindly to authority. Can you imagine?Sorry to hear of your BCD, what was your MOS?

[Sea Demon]

Video speaks for itself. Obama in his own words.

http://macsmind.com/wordpress/2008/06/08/obama-wants-to-protect-america/

[Flamingboat]

I know three people who used to be in Army special forces and they are just as horrified of the Democrat Party as I am.

I knew a SF medic 18D blacker than shoe polish, who won't be hanging out with McLame anytime soon. I got a bad conduct discharge actually. Seems I don't take to kindly to authority. Can you imagine?Sorry to hear of your BCD, what was your MOS?

I like my BCD, in liberal land it's a badge of honor. It kept me out of Iraq, I would have been recalled. I like having all my fingers, legs and sanity. I was 11M, mechanized infantry.

[Flamingboat]

I knew a SF medic 18D blacker than shoe polish, who won't be hanging out with McLame anytime soon.

OK. But you do know that demographically, the military has usually gone Republican. We all understand what happens to the military when Democrats have power. Those of us who served in the Clinton military remember. Things like the Democrats threatening to stop funding our soldiers who are in harms way doesn't help Democrats. Nor does it help your argument. I know these people largely go Republican by experience. It's why the Democrats were trying to throw out military ballots in Florida in 2000. They knew that as well.

It's heavily republican, no doubt, but don't act surprised that there are liberals in the mix. Don't talk aout of your butt, I was in the army under clinton. I assure you, I had plenty of ammo, guns and body armor. Luckily for me Clinton lied about a blowjob, and NOT about Weapons of Mass Distruction.

When Clinton lied, no one died.

[Frame57]

I know three people who used to be in Army special forces and they are just as horrified of the Democrat Party as I am.

I knew a SF medic 18D blacker than shoe polish, who won't be hanging out with McLame anytime soon. I got a bad conduct discharge actually. Seems I don't take to kindly to authority. Can you imagine?Sorry to hear of your BCD, what was your MOS?

I like my BCD, in liberal land it's a badge of honor. It kept me out of Iraq, I would have been recalled. I like having all my fingers, legs and sanity. I was 11M, mechanized infantry.Interesting. Then why did you join to begin with, If I may ask?

[Frame57]

I learned a long time ago that the schoolyard bully never respected weakness. The only thing to answer the bully with was superior strength and a good old fashioned ass whoopin.

[Flamingboat]

Interesting. Then why did you join to begin with, If I may ask?

I was the all American kid, that is what we do! I was a boyscout, dad was a cop, I was in civil air patrol. I was going to go fight the "bad guys" so we would be free to worship J E S U S. haha. Trust me, if someone told me I would be a maga liberal at 17 when I joined up I would have never believed it. I joined on my 17th birthday. Republicans were gods people on earth to me back then. Oh you would have been hard pressed to find a more gung ho candidate.

Well, I joined. Went ok for awhile and I learned it was all a big bunch of BS. Soldiers were fat, did drugs, stayed drunk. This wasn't even during war time. I was wanting to be Captian America himself, but I was living and working with the poor dregs of society that could not get hired at McDonalds. I did details out at School of the America's, back when it was called that. The official story was that it was to fight the drug war. Ok, "hoo ahh" I thought. I was mainly helping with training weapons, recon, opfor etc. I learned later to my shock that we were training death squads to go back to South America to kill people not friendly to the US. Professionals, intellectuals, artist, labor organizers. You know the story. The US denies this of course. They trained Norieaga and he was a CIA agent but Panama got invaded when he stopped taking orders from Washington. Well, I know one thing. The official story is ALWAYS BS. From the Gulf of Tonkin, to Iraq. It's all lies. The agenda is laid out far in advance of the catalyst. This time the trade towers. I had a demo permit, I don't believe the 9-11 official story. Fire can't make building fall like that, only demo can. It's science. That could have been the terrorists, sure, but there is no way jet fuel alone did that. You have to have a half pound of C4 just to blow up some lousy concertina wire. Yeah I'm a 9-11 truther, I await the slamming from all the armchair commandoes.

You learn a lot, you make friends with cooks and green berets, SEALs and mechanics. You piece the puzzle together over time. The war on drugs was called the "war on the competition". America deal in the drug trade? Oh not my America! I was naive as it gets. I got a real rude awakening. So to make a long story short, I am living the good life in liberal land, and I go toe to toe with people who think our wars and military post WW2 have been doing anything righteous.

Oh yeah the BCD, I got bored, low morale, started screwing off and not caring, got into trouble. Nothing major, got booted. They said my "life was over" with a BCD, I laughed in their face. No one on the outside gives a crap. Well I can't be a cop, but big deal.

It was NOT the experience I would have ever dreamed. It was however a really good experience because it opened my eyes bigtime.

[Frame57]

Interesting story. Back in the late 70's I was a 12B10 which is a combat engineer. We used bangalore torpedoes on concertina fences. Det cord was another favorite toy of mine. We would topple trees with the stuff. I later cross branched to active duty Navy because I became a bit bored and wanted to climb the ranks at a faster pace. I was a demolition expert and I disagree with you with regards to what Jet fuel can do. The temperature threshold was very high and can melt steel. The only public opposition to this came from Rosie O'Donnell and Charlie Sheen. I cannot for a moment think they are scientists by any measure. Do you think Arabs would die for an American conspiracy?

[Flamingboat]

Do you think Arabs would die for an American conspiracy?

Unwillingly, you bet. They were put on the planes, no doubt. No way they knew they were about to be martyrs sooner rather than later. CIA or Mossad, whoever did it would not have risked one of them having a "comming to Jesus" moment in the middle of the airport. They probably thought they were just taking a connecting flight but it was really not the dress rehearsal anymore :know:

I'm still not sure about Flight 93, I am betting a F-16 pilot defied orders and said "fuuck this" and shot the thing down because he heard about the attacks.

[Schöneboom]

Greetings, Flamingboat,

The General Topics forum got more interesting when you came aboard, thanks for standing up. We're in mighty strange times now, and it's vital to start thinking outside the box.

What some folks have come to realize is that the old labels like "liberal" & "conservative" have been rendered nearly meaningless. That is, the two parties running the Punch & Judy Show in Washington are beholden to the same power elite, who laugh at us peasants who continue to vote for the stooges THEY select to maintain the illusion of a republic. Our democratic process bears a striking resemblance to professional wrestling, esp. nowadays! Does anybody seriously think that out of the millions of people in this country, McCain & Obama are the best qualified men we could find? Puh-leeeze!

In the long run, the Wall St. Bailout may be far more significant than what happens with the election next month -- that is, if the election even takes place. I figure the economic situation is even worse than they're admitting. I'm buying more groceries than usual, just in case.

What I reckon is in the pipeline, regardless of who's in office (remember both parties pushed for the bailout), is a total nationalization of our financial system. It won't be called communist or fascist -- it'll be an emergency "rescue", of course! And if that brilliant plan doesn't work, the filthy rich will slip away to their safe havens (guarded by Blackwater mercs) and let us liberal & conservative peasants kill each other over whatever's left.

Friends, if you're still getting your news from the mainstream media... The Matrix has you. Take the red pill, please. It's later than you think.

[Zachstar]

Some people never learn.

Clinton tried the tie in game and it failed.

Nuff Said

BTW.. Even McCain admits there is no need for fear from an Obama presidency http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kf6YKOkfFsE

[mrbeast]

Sheesh folks, let's agree to a couple of things. Let me toss 'em out one by one:

Bush is no conservative. Ronald Reagan was a conservative. Bush is no leader. Ronald Reagan was a leader, who commanded the respect of those who did not agree with him. What Bush does does not reflect on conservatives at all, or conservatism.

President Clinton was the best Republican he could be for six years. His whole presidency after 1994 was based on finding out what the Republicans wanted and doing it first. Although liberal by inclination, Clinton was an opportunist, who chose his actions by ease of accomplishment and estimated amount of popular acclaim that would result. Were Clinton president on September 11, 2001, he would have done exactly what President Bush did, including the war in Iraq, and for the same reasons.

Actually, both Bushes and Clinton were identical types of president. They would say they had a position, walk into a meeting and say, "but who cares what I think, let's make a deal." The only area where HW Bush showed any leadership was the war against terrorism and Iraq, and he was unable to explain satisfactorily why he did the right thing. That yields the same result as doing the wrong thing.

I am a conservative, but conservatives are making a grave mistake by calling liberals a bunch of pansies. If Obama is elected president (and I predict he will, God help us) and if he pulls out of Iraq (I believe he won't, among lots of other things he won't) our army will have a shadow when it returns and the shadow will gleefully switch from fighting trained and well-armed volunteers in their part of the world to killing defenseless civilians in our country. I would give 50% odds that within a couple of years of our return we will wake up to a large northeastern or Californian city being wiped off the face of the earth by a nuclear explosion. Note that it will be a liberal city.

At that point, all the Republicans who think the American liberals are a bunch of pansies will learn that they are wrong. The liberals are doing nothing more than giving the militant Islamic terrorists one last chance. Their reaction to the inevitable payback for their pullback from the foreign battlefield will be an unrestrained attack of unbridled fury and death. The war of the Republicans sacrificed American lives to avoid undue civilian carnage and tried to protect the innocent. The liberal backlash will do no such thing. The words "fuel-air bomb" will be literally burnt into your memory for the rest of your life. It will be middle eastern destruction, a war of unimaginable cruelty without regard for life or property, friend or foe. But unlike the Republican patty-cake war, it will work. After all, peace with an implacable enemy only results from resounding, complete victory in war.

You can make friends afterwards with the survivors, if any.

If you think that the war in Iraq was or is 'taking the fight to the enemy' then I think you are bordering on the delusional Rockin Robins.

9/11 was allowed to occurr in part because the Bush administration took its eye off the ball and ignored intelligence reports that Bin Laden was planning an attack on US soil.

Why was Bush's gaze distracted?

Iraq was a Bush target from day 1 of his presidency long before 9/11.

[baggygreen]

You dont think it was more a case of "that sh!t can't happen here", mrbeast?

I personally find it easy to cry incompetence that they missed the signs, christ i said to my dear old mother about a week before how frustrating it was that more wasn't being done as something was in the works. That was simply from wide reading and a gut feeling. Never imagined 9/11 though, obviously.

I think however, they simply didn't think it was possible. People dismissed the fears and intelligence brought to them because lets face it, they all got plenty of warnings and not once did they come true, why should this one?

I don't necessarily believe he was distracted with iraq, i still havent made up my mind fully. I do believe they simply dismissed the warnings out of... a false sense of security.

As for the tower being a conspiracy FB, well you oughta know full well that you dont need to destroy something like a tower's supporting beam, merely weaken it to the point where it can no longer support the weight above it. But lets not go into that in this thread, theres been enough debate about it over the years.

Finally, to put an on-topic comment in here - Like i posted in the other thread about BHO's friends, it'll be interesting to seewhat comes of it all. I can't wait, its like reading a thriller

[Digital_Trucker]

Like i posted in the other thread about BHO's friends, it'll be interesting to seewhat comes of it all. I can't wait, its like reading a thriller
Let's just hope that the thriller's author has a good ending written:D

[Type941]

LOL at the silly alegations. :|\\

[Bewolf]

Man, listening to american party sympathizers is worse then reading russian propaganda over georgia. I hereby predict the next US civil war within the next 10 years if this goes on. Heavens. :nope:

[Hylander_1314]

nah, it's always been that way here. But even Jefferson said we should revolt every 20 years to clean up the house, and remind those we elect who really has the power in the country.

[SUBMAN1]

:o:o:o - He represents the end of America! :o

-S

[Zachstar]

:o:o:o - He represents the end of America! :o

-S

Um.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kf6YKOkfFsE

[SUBMAN1]

:o:o:o - He represents the end of America! :o

-S
Um.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kf6YKOkfFsEUhh, if you didn't want to vote for McCain after watching that, you must lack any brain cells. McCain is showing that he himself is respectable by his words. Obama however has no respect for anyone. You must be too young to be able to read properly into what you just posted.

-S

PS. This post says it all:

agamenon1963 (http://www.youtube.com/user/agamenon1963) (1 minute ago) [/URL] [URL="http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/"]Reply (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/)

I was undecided,now i know im gonna vote Mccain

[stabiz]

Props to the old woman at 0.59. Thats just to good!

[SUBMAN1]

Let's see, from that video, the Arabs and Muslims seem to think America is too strong. So I guess Obama has to correct that for them. That is what is really happening here.

No why Obama's preacher doesn't like him? It is not for starting his campaign off with titties and ass, it is because Obama's preacher knows the real Obama.

-S

[SUBMAN1]

Hahahaha!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LesqncfV8Hg&watch_response

-S

[Rockin Robbins]

It's interesting that we have found more than 300,000 Iraquis in mass graves, murdered by the Hussein regime. I'm delusional that we should be there.

But the other night when Obama was advocating attacking the Sudan, where about 150,000 have been killed. Some kind of a disconnect has taken place there. Obama would go to war for less egregious wrongs with no strategic purpose relating in any way to our national security.

Try this on for size. Had Clinton been President he would have done the identical thing. Less than a month after 9-11 my liberal newspaper was running articles on how could be NOT attack Iraq with all the nasty things going on there. They called attention to the fact that Clinton sent a sizable proportion of our cruise missile inventory to northern Iraq to take out an Al Quaeda training camp. He made a lot of noise about it too.

However, Democrats can say "Bush lied. People died." This after they stopped Bush from acting until they could join in a vote to authorize the attack. This after they made the same statements about Sadaam's weapons of mass destruction that Bush did. Kerry even based his entire reelection campaign on it. When the US Army had Baghdad in a stranglehold, Sadaam made a radio broadcast, reported by all networks, releasing the weapons of mass destruction for use. Nobody lied. Democrats know it.

Actually somebody did lie. Democrats knowingly lied when they said that Bush lied. They knowingly lie when they say we do not belong in Iraq. Their own newspapers were rattling the sabers before the war began asking why Bush was taking too long. Former President Clinton said his biggest regret was that he never had a similar opportunity. This is all documented fact.

Unfortunately the koolaid drinkers believe whatever their puppet masters tell them. That is a self-correcting situation, but more naive young people are being bred all the time to take their place. I pray that they learn the error of their ways before they can unwittingly do too much harm. They will surely regret their present foolishness later in life.

[fatty]

Dunno, seems pretty tasteless, not my thing.

[Task Force]

:huh: :huh: :huh: :huh: :hmm: :hmm: :hmm: :hmm: :88) :88) :88) :88) I dont get it? All I know is it had the word Aids in it alot.

[Safe-Keeper]

Obama in title + TROLLMAN1 as OP = /me leaves thread

:shifty:

[Task Force]

I think I just had a vision.:huh:

[SUBMAN1]

Obama in title + TROLLMAN1 as OP = /me leaves thread

:shifty:Perfect!

[mookiemookie]

Bah...much better: http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=65I0HNvTDH4

[Zachstar]

:o:o:o - He represents the end of America! :o

-S
Um.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kf6YKOkfFsEUhh, if you didn't want to vote for McCain after watching that, you must lack any brain cells. McCain is showing that he himself is respectable by his words. Obama however has no respect for anyone. You must be too young to be able to read properly into what you just posted.

-S

PS. This post says it all:

agamenon1963 (http://www.youtube.com/user/agamenon1963) (1 minute ago) Reply (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/)

I was undecided,now i know im gonna vote Mccain



Me and McCain do not agree on the issues.

Also McCain has a temper problem.

[stabiz]

You need a break, Subman. You are hurting your own crusade.

[Hylander_1314]

Welp, whether the country goes to war or not is the authority of congress not the president. But since the Constitution is sidestepped and by-passed at every turn, most folks think that it is the president's call. He can only ask congress to side with him on the issue.

That is too much power in one mans hands. That is why it left up to congress to make that decision. Just as Roosevelt did on December 8th 1941 in his adress to congress that he asked that a state of war exists between the Unied States of America and the Empire of Japan.

Otherwise he would have been able to muster the troops without anyones input.

[Takeda Shingen]

You know, the last political 'crusader' we had on this forum ended up in permanent exile.

[Dowly]

Riiiiight... :huh:

[Takeda Shingen]

Man, listening to american party sympathizers is worse then reading russian propaganda over georgia. I hereby predict the next US civil war within the next 10 years if this goes on. Heavens. :nope:
Try living here. I've contemplated moving out of the country during election season. It's agony.

[Skybird]

where would you go, Takeda. The schemes and mechanisms/patterns of american campaigning are more and more copied in Europe and Germany as well. the plague is spreading, so to speak. It still may not be as worse over here as it is in your place - but we make good progress.

[Raptor1]

You know, the last political 'crusader' we had on this forum ended up in permanent exile.

Baldwin II of Courtenay?

[Konovalov]

Tasteless, tacky, devoid of humour, grossly distorted and without any real purpose. Oh yeah it's another thread started by Subman on Senator Obama. :roll:

Seriously give it up for a while. In your time here at Subsim you have made many meaningful contributions on a wide variety of topics but of recent it appears that you often only wish to post with the intent to elicit outrage by a section of the forum members. You are doing yourself no favours.

[Safe-Keeper]

Tasteless, tacky, devoid of humour, grossly distorted and without any real purpose. Oh yeah it's another thread started by Subman on Senator Obama. :roll:
Couldn't we do the same thing, just for fun? Let's try it out, shall we?

While McCain has historically opposed tax cuts in favor of deficit reduction,[13] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_John_McCain#cite_note-autogenerated3-12)[14] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_John_McCain#cite_note-autogenerated5-13) he now favors tax cuts.[15] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_John_McCain#cite_note-mercury0416-14)

McCain has declined to sign the pledge of the group Americans for Tax Reform (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americans_for_Tax_Reform) to not add any new taxes or increase existing taxes.[16] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_John_McCain#cite_note-notaxcutpledge-15)OMG Palin, sorry, McCain is a commie who doesn't want anyone to pay taxes!1

McCain supports ending the Boeing C-17 Globemaster III (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C-17_Globemaster_III), the Boeing YAL-1 Airborne Laser (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_YAL-1), and the Boeing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing) and Science Applications International Corporation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_Applications_International_Corporation) Future Combat Systems (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_Combat_Systems).[26] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_John_McCain#cite_note-25)Should the US have an air force? Palin... sorry, McCain says no!

Pork barrel spending (earmarks) McCain has been called one of the Senate's most outspoken critics of pork barrel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pork_barrel) spending.[27] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_John_McCain#cite_note-Spartacus-26)What the ****, no pork? McCain is a politically correct wuzz who's afraid of offending Muslims!

McCain is a strong proponent of free trade (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_trade).[33] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_John_McCain#cite_note-oti-freetrade-32)McCain supports slavery!

McCain is against publicly funded health care (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Publicly-funded_health_care), universal health care (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_health_care), or health coverage mandates.[56] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_John_McCain#cite_note-55) McCain to ban health care for the poverty-stricken!

In April 2007, McCain called global warming (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming) "a serious and urgent economic, environmental and national security challenge" and said that the problem "isn't a Hollywood invention."[226] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_John_McCain#cite_note-225):o McCain is a liberal!!!!!!!111111111eleven

Add your own:up:!

[Biggles]

Is this a desperate attempt from your side to keep the mood up when it becomes more and more clear that McCain/Palin isn't that good after all?

[Kipparikalle]

I think he thinks this as a somekind of hobby, just pop from time to time here and piss everyone off, laught at how everyone is just yelling and being all super pissed. And then leaves.

Like if hes bored, and wants to cheer up. He does this

[Safe-Keeper]

Regarding OP:
End Iraq war: Iraq war is not 'defending America', so that's OT.
End wasteful spending: I had no idea that putting an end to the military wasting money would somehow weaken the US. Please explain.
End the unproven missile shield project: I haven't studied the SDI, so can't comment. Not that I think nuclear missiles are that much of a threat right now, but still, can't comment.
Not 'weaponize' space: Fine by me. We don't do it, they don't do it. If the Russkies start building TIE Fighters, we might rethink our strategy.

The rest isn't about disarming the States, except
No new nuclear weapons: Oh no, the US will be left with only a few thousands of them:o!

Sorry, but where in that movie does it say he wants to disarm America:shifty:?

EDIT: And what about...
McCain supports ending the Boeing C-17 Globemaster III (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C-17_Globemaster_III), the Boeing YAL-1 Airborne Laser (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_YAL-1), and the Boeing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing) and Science Applications International Corporation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_Applications_International_Corporation) Future Combat Systems (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_Combat_Systems).[26] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_John_McCain#cite_note-25)HOW R WE GONG 2 D3FAND OURSELVES WITHOUT PLAENS AND LAESRS????!!1111 OMG WTF AND WHEN WE DONT DAV3LOP ANY COMBAT SYST3MS IN DA FUTURE WAL B OVERTAEKN BY TEH ANEMY!!1!1!!1 WTF

:p

[Task Force]

Has anyone noticed the Subsim moral go down.:-?

[Frame57]

The interesting thing I have noticed with regards to people either getting offended or enraged is that 90% or so are folks from other Countries. What! Has ACORN registered all of you to vote in an American election?

[Task Force]

I think that politics shouldnt be talked about here, they seem to start arguements.

[Raptor1]

I think that politics shouldnt be talked about here, they seem to start arguements.

I thought politics are arguments by definition

[Frame57]

I didn't say socialism lacks law. If anything, as I understand it, it is more intrusive. So if I took off on a tangent, which I do from time to time, sorry.

But if you look at it, Socialism, Communism, Fascism, and Capitalism are all capitalist. Who "owns" the capital is the difference. Your capital is your means of production. Now if the US Gov. gets it's hands in the mix, it's a recipe for disaster. It takes our foundations and pushes them closer to the edge of the window. Especially since the primary job of the US Gov. is to secure and protect the rights of the people. Not to give them or take them away. Our rights according to the Declaration of Independence come from the Creator. Not from government.
"...that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights. Amongst them are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."
"....that to secure these rights, governments are instituted amongst men."

Thankyou for the compliments on our attitudes of independence, liberty and personal responsibility. But it (responsibility) too is lacking here. On the financial end, how many people use bankruptcy as a way of getting out of their debts. Or how many people think the government owes them. We used to have thing here called debtors prison, and believe it or not, quite a few of the founders spent time there.

I really railed on a close friend who ran up thousands in business investments and then had the audacity to say that it was his right to file bankruptcy since he couldn't afford them. Most of it was in advertising, so the salesreps for these advertisers are guilty of misleading him, but as I told him, he is the most responsible as he is the one who signed off on the contract without thinking it through thoroughly. I was really steamed with this, as he came to me for council on this, and we went over the flagging economy, the fact that when the markets fall into trouble, he is going to fall on hard times. If the people with money don't have it to spend, what is going to happen to the general populace? And trust me, I'm no economist, I never studied it, other than the general education supplied by the public schools (at the time called civics), and recommended reading by my instructors. I couldn't afford college, nor could my folks, and back then, there wasn't common knowledge of grants, and government assistance for advanced schooling. See I did it again.

And I do not harbor any ill will toward the forms of government other countries posess. But to try to integrate them into our form of a Constitutional Republic is counter to what it was founded as. But for the last 90 years our country has been referred to as a democracy, as it is taught that way in the school system, which is incorrect according to the founders. So from a very early age children are indoctrinated to believe a false form. Even Thomas Jefferson who started the "Democratic Republican Party" never referred to our nation as a democracy, nor did Hamilton, Franklin, Madison, Jay, or the other men who argued over what we should have, once independence was secured.

But the more involved the government here gets with business, the closer to a totalitarian system we get. Whether it be any one of them.Very well said...If you ran for office i would vote for you:D . What you said is 100% on the mark!

[Task Force]

yes, but this realy is not the place, as you see people are abusing it, posting stuff like this thread. and lots of people take this stuff seriously and take the offence. Then the conflect gets larger. untill something happens and someone says something that gets them banned (aka keelhualed).

[SUBMAN1]

yes, but this realy is not the place, as you see people are abusing it, posting stuff like this thread. and lots of people take this stuff seriously and take the offence. Then the conflect gets larger. untill something happens and someone says something that gets them banned (aka keelhualed).Excuse me man, but i just saw something on YouTube from another link and laughed a bit. I shared. Now the whole world sounds like its coming down. Maybe it was tasteless, but I didn't create it! I just shared.

-S

[Task Force]

Sorry subman, wasnt directing it at you. Just this political stuff in gereral.;)

[SUBMAN1]

Sorry subman, wasnt directing it at you. Just this political stuff in gereral.;)No problem.

The only reason it is so prevalent right now is we are one month from election day. Its going to be like this for only 1 more month. Then the Kool Aid runs out for both sides. :D

-S

[Task Force]

Yea I see what you meen, The there is new commercial every day about the elections on Tv.:lol:

[Biggles]

Yea I see what you meen, The there is new commercial every day about the elections on Tv.:lol:

Ain't that weird is it?:know:

I'm James Bigglesworth and I approve of this message.

[Task Force]

Its strange how they always approve trash on the other person even if its not true.:lol:

[Takeda Shingen]

where would you go, Takeda. The schemes and mechanisms/patterns of american campaigning are more and more copied in Europe and Germany as well. the plague is spreading, so to speak. It still may not be as worse over here as it is in your place - but we make good progress.
There's still Antarctica. If the penguin doesn't like you, he just bites you. He doesn't pay for a 60-second advertisement denouncing you to the world, and his penguin buddies don't get on their computers to blog about how awful you are.

[Hylander_1314]

I didn't say socialism lacks law. If anything, as I understand it, it is more intrusive. So if I took off on a tangent, which I do from time to time, sorry.

But if you look at it, Socialism, Communism, Fascism, and Capitalism are all capitalist. Who "owns" the capital is the difference. Your capital is your means of production. Now if the US Gov. gets it's hands in the mix, it's a recipe for disaster. It takes our foundations and pushes them closer to the edge of the window. Especially since the primary job of the US Gov. is to secure and protect the rights of the people. Not to give them or take them away. Our rights according to the Declaration of Independence come from the Creator. Not from government.
"...that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights. Amongst them are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."
"....that to secure these rights, governments are instituted amongst men."

Thankyou for the compliments on our attitudes of independence, liberty and personal responsibility. But it (responsibility) too is lacking here. On the financial end, how many people use bankruptcy as a way of getting out of their debts. Or how many people think the government owes them. We used to have thing here called debtors prison, and believe it or not, quite a few of the founders spent time there.

I really railed on a close friend who ran up thousands in business investments and then had the audacity to say that it was his right to file bankruptcy since he couldn't afford them. Most of it was in advertising, so the salesreps for these advertisers are guilty of misleading him, but as I told him, he is the most responsible as he is the one who signed off on the contract without thinking it through thoroughly. I was really steamed with this, as he came to me for council on this, and we went over the flagging economy, the fact that when the markets fall into trouble, he is going to fall on hard times. If the people with money don't have it to spend, what is going to happen to the general populace? And trust me, I'm no economist, I never studied it, other than the general education supplied by the public schools (at the time called civics), and recommended reading by my instructors. I couldn't afford college, nor could my folks, and back then, there wasn't common knowledge of grants, and government assistance for advanced schooling. See I did it again.

And I do not harbor any ill will toward the forms of government other countries posess. But to try to integrate them into our form of a Constitutional Republic is counter to what it was founded as. But for the last 90 years our country has been referred to as a democracy, as it is taught that way in the school system, which is incorrect according to the founders. So from a very early age children are indoctrinated to believe a false form. Even Thomas Jefferson who started the "Democratic Republican Party" never referred to our nation as a democracy, nor did Hamilton, Franklin, Madison, Jay, or the other men who argued over what we should have, once independence was secured.

But the more involved the government here gets with business, the closer to a totalitarian system we get. Whether it be any one of them.Very well said...If you ran for office i would vote for you:D . What you said is 100% on the mark!

Thankyou. :up:

Only trouble is, I wouldn't last long. Just as Kennedy, Garfield, or Lincoln. That's what happens to those who stray from the entities who pay for the election.:nope:

[Skybird]

where would you go, Takeda. The schemes and mechanisms/patterns of american campaigning are more and more copied in Europe and Germany as well. the plague is spreading, so to speak. It still may not be as worse over here as it is in your place - but we make good progress.
There's still Antarctica. If the penguin doesn't like you, he just bites you. He doesn't pay for a 60-second advertisement denouncing you to the world, and his penguin buddies don't get on their computers to blog about how awful you are.

If you think those penguins are the better humans, you better think twice.

http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/973/ulistein1po9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

"Guys, don't do something stupid...!

[Stealth Hunter]

You know, the last political 'crusader' we had on this forum ended up in permanent exile.

I wish you still had your Ban-Katana, samurai mod.:yep:

[baggygreen]

I can't see youtube clips at work..

for some reason i have a mental pic of BHO singing the aids song in the scene from team america.

Is that too far off?

[JHuschke]

All choices for the election are terrible! Our best is McCain.

[JHuschke]

Obama has no interest in & nor will he bring the United States into Socialism...it will never happen.

Remember, he only says what you want to hear and half of it is what you don't want to hear.

[Task Force]

These are the worst runners for president ive ever seen.:huh: Makes me want to move somewhere else.:huh:

[Konovalov]

These are the worst runners for president ive ever seen.:huh: Makes me want to move somewhere else.:huh:
Better still, why not ask the two candidates to move elsewhere? That seems a more just choice. ;)

[Bewolf]

These two are not the two worst presidents the US could deal with by a fair margin.

What is worse in these elections is the mud thrown at each other and the polarisation taking place, the "either or" stance, and the appeareant intolerance to the other partie's stances not by common sense and reason anymore, but by mere principle. Switch of the brain, go by party politics.

If either McCain or Obama would have been put up only 10 years ago, both would have
gained massive and positive reactions from either side.

What has become that worrysome in the US are not the presidents, but an in large parts uneducated population that is manipulated and driven by medieval times style party rethorics more akin to dogmatic mobs then 21th century democracies.
It's not a about politics anymore, it's about what underwear a president wears to answer the question if he is fit for office. :damn:

[Stealth Hunter]

Check your JAVA? Enable cookies? Check your TCIP settings?

[SUBMAN1]

I can't see youtube clips at work..

for some reason i have a mental pic of BHO singing the aids song in the scene from team america.

Is that too far off?Many places firewall YouTube at work. That is probably what is happening. I don't think I can watch YouTube either at work, though I don't have time to try.

-S

[baggygreen]

Yeh the problem is that its actually blocked in some way shape or form. that, and any url containing "game"

[GoldenRivet]

thats from the movie "team america world police" - i love that flick and i thought the clip was pretty funny in a sick sort of way.

sure its tasteless... but I also have a very sick sense of humor.

the same sense of humor that causes me to say stuff like...

Wife: "How did you sleep last night?"

Me: "Like a dead baby, you?"

sorry... i know... but thats just how it is. :-?

[Morts]

thats from the movie "team america world police" - i love that flick and i thought the clip was pretty funny in a sick sort of way.

sure its tasteless... but I also have a very sick sense of humor.

the same sense of humor that causes me to say stuff like...

Wife: "How did you sleep last night?"

Me: "Like a dead baby, you?"

sorry... i know... but thats just how it is. :-?
now thats humor:rotfl:

[bookworm_020]

thats from the movie "team america world police" - i love that flick and i thought the clip was pretty funny in a sick sort of way.


My Wife and I sing it to each other on a regular basis, that and "I'm so lonley";):D And you thought you were werid!:roll:

[GoldenRivet]

I'm so ronery.

Haha.

I love that movie.

[SUBMAN1]

Wonderful.

-S

Want to set a conservative’s hair on fire? Just mention redistribution of wealth and watch the fireworks. It happened Sunday when Barack Obama was canvassing a neighborhood in Toledo, Ohio.

Fox News cameras were there and captured the conversation (http://www.breitbart.tv/?p=195153) (which is now all over the Web) between a self-employed plumber named Joe Wurzelbacher and Obama.

More taxes?
Wurzelbacher explained that by working hard (10-12 hours a day) he was in a position to buy a business. If he bought a truck and expanded the business, he wondered if his success would be greeted by a penalty in the form of higher taxes.
“Your new tax plan is going to tax me more, isn’t it?” Wurzlebacher asked.

“It’s not that I want to punish your success,” Obama explained. “I just want to make sure that everybody who is behind you, that they’ve got a chance for success too. My attitude is that if the economy’s good for folks from the bottom up, it’s gonna be good for everybody … I think when you spread the wealth around, it’s good for everybody.”

The common good
Spread the wealth around. That can mean many things. It could mean a rising tide lifts all boats. But it could also mean government taking from one group of people (the people who earned it) and giving it to those who did not.

This is what Obama detractors are saying his tax plan is all about. And many are wondering why the McCain campaign isn’t being more vocal about this. They contend Obama’s policy proposals are damning enough. Forget Bill Ayers, they say, go after his policy.

The Journal
In the context of the Democratic nominee’s conversation with the plumber (video below), many blogs are linking to a Wall Street Journal column (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122385651698727257.html) yesterday that charges that Obama’s tax plan isn’t what it sounds. They say it’s a big gimmick:One of Barack Obama’s most potent campaign claims is that he’ll cut taxes for no less than 95% of “working families.” He’s even promising to cut taxes enough that the government’s tax share of GDP will be no more than 18.2% — which is lower than it is today.
It’s a clever pitch, because it lets him pose as a middle-class tax cutter while disguising that he’s also proposing one of the largest tax increases ever on the other 5%. But how does he conjure this miracle, especially since more than a third of all Americans already pay no income taxes at all? There are several sleights of hand, but the most creative is to redefine the meaning of “tax cut.”
For the Obama Democrats, a tax cut is no longer letting you keep more of what you earn. In their lexicon, a tax cut includes tens of billions of dollars in government handouts that are disguised by the phrase “tax credit.” Mr. Obama is proposing to create or expand no fewer than seven such credits for individuals.
No preconditions
Not surprisingly, the McCain campaign agrees with that assessment in a sarcastically toned statement:
“If Barack Obama’s goal as President is to ’spread the wealth around,’ perhaps his unconditional meetings with Hugo Chavez, Raul Castro, and Kim Jong-Il aren’t so crazy — if nothing else they can advise an Obama administration on economic policy,” a McCain spokesman told Fox News.

Agreed
Investors Business Daily (http://www.investors.com/editorial/editorialcontent.asp?secid=1501&status=article&id=308790933239252) calls Obama’s tax proposals straight up “socialism.”John McCain is reportedly considering a broad, simple capital gains tax cut. An across-the-board cut would be a real middle-class rescue, focused on generating new private sector employment — the proven way of “spreading the wealth around,” a concept which Obama, with his deftly disguised socialism, cannot grasp.
Blogosphere erupts
They aren’t the only ones calling it socialism. The conservative blogosphere regards the Fox video as manna from heaven. This is something they say empirically shows Obama is in favor of redistribution of wealth.

There’s the blunt and simplistic approach from McNorman’s weblog (http://mcnorman.wordpress.com/2008/10/13/breitbarttv-%C2%BB-obama-tells-tax-burdened-plumber-the-plan-is-to-%E2%80%98spread-the-wealth-around%E2%80%99/): “Obama is a socialist. I have said it before.”
Michelle Malkin (http://michellemalkin.com/2008/10/13/spread-the-wealth-swallow-the-crap-sandwiches/) doesn’t have a lot to say about it, but we’re assuming that she isn’t a fan of the Obama tax proposal, which she denigrates.

Over at the American Sentinel (http://theamericansentinel.com/2008/10/13/barack-obamas-new-deal-spread-the-wealth-around/) this is the view:Welcome to Barack Obama’s new America, it’s called redistribution of wealth and his tax cuts for 95% of America is nothing more than Government welfare for people that don’t pay taxes at all. Haven’t we already been down this path ? This was done in the 70’s and the Democrats are bent on bringing it back. Only can today’s “progressive” see fit to cater to the ”parasite class” and bury the American worker further. Mission almost accomplished.
RightPundits.com (http://www.rightpundits.com/?p=2210) goes right to the author of The Communist Manifesto:Ahhhh - income redistribution. Take from those that have and give it to those who don’t. Make sure everyone has an equal piece of the pie. In the words of Karl Marx, ‘From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs.’
One of our readers commenting on another story writes:Obama has stated today that ‘he wants to spread the wealth around’. At least now he is honest about his redistribution of wealth ideology.
“The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.” - Winston Churchill
T minus 21
As for the traditional media, there’s not a lot out there. But Obama’s comments — far from JFK’s “a rising tide lifts all boats” statement — have started a buzz in blogland. Whether it catches on and McCain latches on to it, we’ll have to wait. There’s not a lot of time left.
http://features.csmonitor.com/politics/2008/10/14/obamas-tax-plan-and-the-redistribution-of-wealth/

[Konovalov]

Fantastic. :rock: :rock: All the Obama threads which have swamped the GT forum have been consolidated into one big "Slam Obama" topic. Thank goodness for that. :yep:

[Onkel Neal]

Yeah, and I'll try to do the same for the McCain threads.

There are just a few guys spamming the boards with this stuff. That's fine, but since it is so similar in tone, content, and intent, they can simply post them as replies in these threads.

[Konovalov]

Excellent. Much better solution than a seperate politics/religion.... section. :yep:

I'm sure that once the election is over things will return to normal. At least I hope. :-?

[Skybird]

Neal for president (unslammed)!

I read: "Sticky: Poll: Next president of the United States", posted over a year ago, still running. Author: Neal Stevens. No hidden intentions there.

Yeah, sure! :lol:

[Digital_Trucker]

Now political advertising in our games:down:

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jvjv52elpZjLFePTcOXw_7YQ6pvAD93QF82G0

[Tchocky]

Now political advertising in our games:down:

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jvjv52elpZjLFePTcOXw_7YQ6pvAD93QF82G0

THis (http://www.wbir.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=66550&catid=2) is what they thought of next.

A new father has secretly named his baby girl Sarah McCain Palin after the Republican ticket for president and vice president.

Mark Ciptak of Elizabethton put that name on the documents for the girl's birth certificate, ignoring the name Ava Grace, which he and his wife had picked earlier.

"I don't think she believes me yet," he told the Kingsport Times-News for a story to be published Tuesday. "It's going to take some more convincing."

[baggygreen]

The notion Obama allegedly expressed to that worker who runs his own business is nothing new. In fact its very common over here. There seem to be so many people in the mindset of 'if he's doing well, we need to tax him harder and give his tax dollars to people not faring so well so the gap is narrowed, not increased'

I'm almost tempted to quit work and start claiming all the benefits i'm entitled to, amongst them is an interest free loan, discounted medical and pharmaceutical goods and services, and handouts up the wazoo. Lord knows it'd make my life easier to take a slight pay cut but never need to work! Hell, I could even get a free tertiary education if I chose to fill in my spare time that way.

Only thing stopping me is that I have an opinion that you should work and work hard to achieve, you shouldnt sit there bludging on everyone elses hard work. Its why I dont like the abundance of welfare handouts down under, and why in the context provided, I don't like what Obama was quoted as saying. Note the word context, as every side is taking things out of their original context in an attempt to further discredit the opposition.

[SUBMAN1]

I only wish this were a joke.

-S

Just Wanted To Know...

Columbo still scratching his head.

Ah . . Sorry to bother you Mr. Obama, Sir

Excuse me Mr. Obama, I mean Senator Obama, sir. Um . . . know you are busy and important and stuff. I mean running for president is very important and . . ah . . . I hate to bother you. I will only take a minute ok, sir?

See, I have these missing pieces that are holding me up, and I was wondering sir, if you could take time out of your busy schedule and help me out. You know, no big deal, just some loose ends and things.

Hey, you have a nice place here! The wife sees houses like this on TV all the time and says boy she wishes she had digs like this you know? Is that painting real? Really? Wow. I saw something like that in a museum once!

Oh, sorry sir. I didn't mean to get off the track. So if you could just help me out a minute and give me some details, I will get right out of your way. I want to close this case and maybe take the wife to Coney Island or something. Ever been to Coney Island ? No, I didn't think so. .

Well, listen, anyways, I can't seem to get some information I need to wrap this up. These things seem to either be "locked" or "not available'. I'm sure it's just some oversight or glitch or something, so if you could you tell me where these things are . . . I . . . I . . have them written down here somewhere . . . oh wait. Sorry about the smears. It was raining out. I'll just read it to you.

Could you help me please find these things, sir?

Occidental College records -- Not released
Columbia College records -- Not released
Columbia Thesis paper -- "not available"
Harvard College records -- Not released
Selective Service Registration -- Not released
Medical records -- Not released
Illinois State Senate schedule -- "not available"
Law practice client list -- Not released
Certified Copy of original Birth certificate -- Not released
Embossed, signed paper Certification of Live Birth -- Not released
Harvard Law Review articles published -- None
University of Chicago scholarly articles -- None

Your Record of baptism-- Not released or "not available"

Your Illinois State Senate records--"not available"

Oh hey listen! I know you are busy! Is this too much for you now? I mean tell you what. I will come back tomorrow. Give you some time to get these things together, you know? I mean, I know you are busy, so I will just let myself out. I will be back tomorrow.

"Who wants to know these things?" asked Senator Obama.

Columbo answered: THE PEOPLE

[baggygreen]

Couldn't this have gone in the 'slam obama' thread???

[Zachstar]

There is a topic for this you know.

But then I guess that goes against the whole "Flood the forum until some uneducated voter reads my stuff and votes for the other guy"

[SUBMAN1]

Its supposed to be a joke, but it actually is true, so no, i don't agree.

-S

[Zachstar]

Its supposed to be a joke, but it actually is true, so no, i don't agree.

-S

Of course. People who in my view spend their days posting propaganda dont agree to be constrained to a measly multipage topic. They can't stand not being able to flood a forum to post their bias.

[Konovalov]

Its supposed to be a joke, but it actually is true, so no, i don't agree.

-S
Obviously someone (mods/owner) didn't agree with you because it has been merged into the slam Obama thread as was rightly suggested by Baggygreen.

[SUBMAN1]

This will tell you how Barrack stands for or against you based on the issues of the day.

I'll probably take it, but I doubt Obama will agree with me on many things.

http://www.barackobamatest.com/?fuseaction=home.options

-S

[fatty]

The guy's selling a book called The Audacity of Deceit right on his page. Why did you feel this didn't belong in the Slam Obama thread?

[Zachstar]

Because people who spend their days posting propaganda do not feel they have to be constrained by pesky policy.

[Flamingboat]

Subman is allowed to have his propoganda machine rolling. It does make for some fun and converstation!

He is allowed to since he is a right-winger, when I supported the liberal side I got a ten day ban for "trolling".

Lame.

[AVGWarhawk]

Subman is allowed to have his propoganda machine rolling. It does make for some fun and converstation!
He is allowed to since he is a right-winger, when I supported the liberal side I got a ten day ban for "trolling".

Lame.
No, continuing your crusade after a 10 day ban is not the greatest thing one could do to bolster membership here at SS. That is up to you to decide. I find it odd that this is your very first post after a 10 breather.

[Morts]

Subman is allowed to have his propoganda machine rolling. It does make for some fun and converstation!
He is allowed to since he is a right-winger, when I supported the liberal side I got a ten day ban for "trolling".

Lame.
No, continuing your crusade after a 10 day ban is not the greatest thing one could do to bolster membership here at SS. That is up to you to decide. I find it odd that this is your very first post after a 10 breather.
well, subman has been crusading for quite a while now ? why hasnt he been banned ?
Flamingboat did exactly the same as subman yet only he gets banned
that is indeed..lame

[Thomen]

Subman is allowed to have his propoganda machine rolling. It does make for some fun and converstation!
He is allowed to since he is a right-winger, when I supported the liberal side I got a ten day ban for "trolling".

Lame.
No, continuing your crusade after a 10 day ban is not the greatest thing one could do to bolster membership here at SS. That is up to you to decide. I find it odd that this is your very first post after a 10 breather. well, subman has been crusading for quite a while now ? why hasnt he been banned ?
Flamingboat did exactly the same as subman yet only he gets banned
that is indeed..lame
How many times exactly has Subman used the infamous N-word and argued semantics about its meaning and spelling with a staff member?

I do not agree with all the stuff that is said here, but when someone starts to toss around racial slurs and argues its meaning, the gloves ought to come off.

And, imo, that's what FB's stay in the brig was for. Not for his political opinion, but for his language and disrespect for the staff and forum members.

[AVGWarhawk]

Subman is allowed to have his propoganda machine rolling. It does make for some fun and converstation!
He is allowed to since he is a right-winger, when I supported the liberal side I got a ten day ban for "trolling".

Lame.
No, continuing your crusade after a 10 day ban is not the greatest thing one could do to bolster membership here at SS. That is up to you to decide. I find it odd that this is your very first post after a 10 breather. well, subman has been crusading for quite a while now ? why hasnt he been banned ?
Flamingboat did exactly the same as subman yet only he gets banned
that is indeed..lame
How many times exactly has Subman used the infamous N-word and argued semantics about its meaning and spelling with a staff member?

I do not agree with all the stuff that is said here, but when someone starts to toss around racial slurs and argues its meaning, the gloves ought to come off.

And, imo, that's what FB's stay in the brig was for. Not for his political opinion, but for his language and disrespect for the staff and forum members.
And here I thought I was the only one reading those posts 10 days ago. Thank you Thomen for your excellent memory and pointing out that the end result for Flamingboat concerned exactly what you have stated. Hat off to you sir!

[Thomen]

Uh, excuse me but that "slur" accusation thing was clearly a strawman used to put an end to an argument, very convenient.

So, what are you saying? Racial slurs are ok?

[AVGWarhawk]

Uh, excuse me but that "slur" accusation thing was clearly a strawman used to put an end to an argument, very convenient.

As you wish to view it. Non-the-less, it needed to be addressed.

[August]

I think the moderation here is pretty even handed compared to other forums, but the beauty part Mikhayl is that if you disagree there isn't anyone forcing you to stay here... :cool:

[baggygreen]

My apologies, I realize that the word "nigga" is a serious offense and the people using it should be dealt with just as seriously as the people posting things such as "homosexuals=pedophiles=animals" or "muslims=terrorists" were dealt with.
Offtopic for a bit, I've bolded one part of the statement you made - I agree completely with that. Living opposite one hasn't really improved my opinion. as for the other, well the majorityu of muslims are not terrorists, but there is no ignoring the fact that the majority of terrorists are muslims (in some way shape or form). Then, to complicate it, you got the lovely expression of "one mans terrorist, anothers freedom fighter" which can be applied often.

Anyways, back onto topic now, newspapers here are overwhelmingly supporting the Democrats' campaign, it is almost a perfect repetition of last years election here, when Howard got the boot.

Even more locally, the ACT election (tiny tiny state, consists of a city and mnot much more) has shown again the way media have a seemingly natural bias towards the left, with several outright lies being voiced in the leadup but being pushed aside and ignored by all medias.

A big part of me things this is the way it must go, everythjing seems to be cyclical, after vietnam both Oz and the US were over war, wanted a change, and settled into the feelgood spirit of the late 70s. Maybe its time for that again?

[Reece]

Well I'm not an American but I took the Barak Obama test, the result:
You DISAGREED with the Barack Obama position on 40 of the 48 test questions. This means you disagree with the Obama position 83% of the time.
Interesting!:yep:

[Wolfehunter]

This whole issue about the presidency is a RACE war for power not about every americans best interests. A stupid black and white issue.:nope: Totally insane really guys.. :confused:

I rather someone who can help repair the country. Theirs so many real issues that need to be fixed and you guys are voting for skin color.:roll:

Very intelligent choices wow. :-?

[Hylander_1314]

Trouble is Wolfhunter, the people who would do the country good don't get the monetary backing as they aren't sellouts, and they get treated by the media as wacky weirdos. If the media would just stick to the facts, instead of running with a partial or inaccurate statement and story most of the time, then maybe the folks here would have a better idea of what the candidates really stand for.

[joegrundman]

wow, what a cesspool this thread is

[Konovalov]

wow, what a cesspool this thread is
:lol: :lol: Yep, x-rated to the max unfortunately. :damn:

[Thomen]

Nothing against Obama grandmother, and my best wishes to her, but does anybody else think it's a rather curious coincident that Obama heads to Hawaii on the day he is ordered by Court to produce his Birth Certificate?

Apparently some guy named Berg sued Obama on the notion that he is not qualified to be President because it is not yet proven that he is a natural born citizen.

Why didn't he just hand over the document?

EDIT:
Found this: http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/pennsylvania/paedce/2:2008cv04083/281573/27/

It is unlikely that the judge is going to sign the notion as it is presented.

[baggygreen]

Thats interesting reading.

Not from a pro- or anti- obama (though I'm sure many are interested from that perspective) but more for my fascination with legalese!

And the use of Esquire! Wow!:sunny:

[Digital_Trucker]

Just to make it clear, that order is only one drafted by Berg to make it easier for the Judge to order it, if he so chooses. This, evidently, is a common practice when filing suit. You can find more out about the suit at America's Right (http://www.americasright.com/2008/08/obama-sued-in-philadelphia-federal.html). The order has not, to my knowledge, been signed by the judge yet.

It is, however, very coincidental that Obama announced his visit to Hawaii a few hours after a suit was filed in the Hawaiin court to demand that Obama's real long-form birth certificate (not the Certificate of Live Birth that is on the internet on Obama's site) be released to the author of an anti-Obama book. That lawsuit is available at http://www.contrariancommentary.com/community/Home/tabid/36/mid/363/newsid363/284/Default.aspx .

I've been watching the Berg suit to see where it goes, and am beginning to wonder if it will be held until after the election. There is some evidence to support Berg's supposition that Obama was born in Kenya and his birth later registered as a home birth in Hawaii. There is also some evidence that he may have lost his citizenship when he was enrolled in school in Indonesia and obtained an Indonesian passport (which he used while in his 20s).

[1480]

There was a 20 minute Q&A with Berg on the Michael Savage radio show. I found it quite interesting. My only thought for all to ponder, if the lady that raised him is on her death bed, why did he only go there by himself?

[Hylander_1314]

This is the only thing that has worried me about the candidacy for president.

If it be true that he is ineligible to run for the position, and is allowed, then it is just another usurpation of the Constitution that they all who run for the position swear an oath to uphold, protect, and defend.

If Mr. Berg has proof to the contrary that the man is not an eligible claimant to run for the presidency, then it must be obeyed that he step down from the pulpit, and relinquish the candidacy for the presidency on behalf of the Democratic Party, and let someone who is a citizen take his place.

If the evidence points to the fact the plaintiff has no grounds through proof, then let leave the man be and let the race go on.

[Frame57]

Getting a birth certificate is easy to do. If he cannot or will not there is only one reason why...

[Hylander_1314]

Getting a birth certificate is easy to do. If he cannot or will not there is only one reason why...

This I do not disagree with, but I'm willing to wait to see what turns up, and if it is true either way.

[Diopos]

Getting a birth certificate is easy to do. If he cannot or will not there is only one reason why...

Mmm... He was not born! :know:

[Digital_Trucker]

Mmm... He was not born! :know:
:rotfl:Good one.

I've not seen any documentation on it, but I understand that Obama's grandmother (the mother of his biological father) in Kenya has stated repeatedly that she was there in the delivery room when Barry was born in Kenya.

[joegrundman]

So is it the case that if you are born a US citizen overseas, you cannot be president?

[Digital_Trucker]

So is it the case that if you are born a US citizen overseas, you cannot be president?
In this case, since only one of the parents was an American citizen, if he was born in Kenya then he would not be a natural born citizen and would not be able to run for President. There's also the question of whether he gave up his American citizenship when he was enrolled in school in Indonesia, listed as an Indonesian citizen and aquired an Indonesian passport (which he used to travel to countries that US citizens were not allowed to travel to at the time when he was in his 20s).

A child born, for instance, on a military base overseas to parents who are both American citizens and are there at the orders of the US military is considered a natural born US citizen.

[AVGWarhawk]

So is it the case that if you are born a US citizen overseas, you cannot be president?
In this case, since only one of the parents was an American citizen, if he was born in Kenya then he would not be a natural born citizen and would not be able to run for President. There's also the question of whether he gave up his American citizenship when he was enrolled in school in Indonesia, listed as an Indonesian citizen and aquired an Indonesian passport (which he used to travel to countries that US citizens were not allowed to travel to at the time when he was in his 20s).

A child born, for instance, on a military base overseas to parents who are both American citizens and are there at the orders of the US military is considered a natural born US citizen.



Meh.........we are just going to give this a bye like everything else Obama has received.

I now go check my air pressure on my car as the part of the Obama energy plan:up:

[joegrundman]

So if you are born abroad with one american parent and immediately registered at birth as a US citizen you are not a natural born american - this is the case, right?

What's the issue with dual nationality - you don't allow it, or something? I know lots of people with dual nationality; US and something else- i was talking to one just this evening.

Even the mayor of London has dual US/British nationality (or at least he did)

[AVGWarhawk]

So if you are born abroad with one american parent and immediately registered at birth as a US citizen you are not a natural born american - this is the case, right?

What's the issue with dual nationality - you don't allow it, or something? I know lots of people with dual nationality; US and something else- i was talking to one just this evening.

Even the mayor of London has dual US/British nationality (or at least he did)
Honestly, I think this is a none issue. 18 months have past and nothing to hang a hat on. But, for clarification, I would like to know what the rules are.

[Digital_Trucker]

So if you are born abroad with one american parent and immediately registered at birth as a US citizen you are not a natural born american - this is the case, right?

What's the issue with dual nationality - you don't allow it, or something? I know lots of people with dual nationality; US and something else- i was talking to one just this evening.

Even the mayor of London has dual US/British nationality (or at least he did)
The problem is that his mother registered him as if he had been born in the US. If he wasn't born in the US, he's not a natural born citizen (as I understand it). It's not that he's not allowed to be a US citizen if he's born elsewhere, it's only the President that has to be a natural born US citizien. A person born practically anywhere can become a naturalized citizen and hold government posts (ie Arnold Schwarzenneger), but they just can't be President (without an amendment to the Constitution).

As for the dual citizenship, Indonesia didn't allow for dual citizenship at the time, so he would have had to denounce his American citizenship. In order to regain it, he would have had to be re-naturalized, and there is no evidence that he did this (to date).

[1480]

DT is correct, but I wanted to add, the law back then was if the mother was a citizen and 19 years old, the child born outside of the US would automatically be a citizen. She was only 18 I believe, which is also part of Berg's original complaint.

[Digital_Trucker]

DT is correct, but I wanted to add, the law back then was if the mother was a citizen and 19 years old, the child born outside of the US would automatically be a citizen. She was only 18 I believe, which is also part of Berg's original complaint.

Yep, thanks for the reminder on that, I had forgotten about that part.:up:

[Jimbuna]

So what is the bottom line here?

Is he a foreigner or a US citizen entitled to be the President of the US if so elected ? :hmm:

[August]

So what is the bottom line here?

Is he a foreigner or a US citizen entitled to be the President of the US if so elected ? :hmm:

So far he has avoided answering the question.

[Jimbuna]

So what is the bottom line here?

Is he a foreigner or a US citizen entitled to be the President of the US if so elected ? :hmm:

So far he has avoided answering the question.

Oh right.....so surely there is a protocol in place for checking the legitimacy of candidates before they can stand for such a prestigious office :hmm:

[Stealth Hunter]

Great video by Thunderf00t:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iuwr0TY6-qQ

[MothBalls]

Getting a birth certificate is easy to do. If he cannot or will not there is only one reason why...

The records were destroyed when his home planet [Krypton] blew up.

[AVGWarhawk]

Great video by Thunderf00t:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iuwr0TY6-qQ

May I ask what is so great about it?

[Digital_Trucker]

So what is the bottom line here?

Is he a foreigner or a US citizen entitled to be the President of the US if so elected ? :hmm:
So far he has avoided answering the question.
Oh right.....so surely there is a protocol in place for checking the legitimacy of candidates before they can stand for such a prestigious office :hmm:
You would think so but strange things happen. We're in kind of unknown territory here since Obama's birthplace is in question. Normally a candidate can supply a real birth certificate (not a Certificate of Live Birth).

[Stealth Hunter]

Great video by Thunderf00t:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iuwr0TY6-qQ

May I ask what is so great about it?

The things those people claimed. Epic win. I think the last one was the best.:rotfl:

[Jimbuna]

So what is the bottom line here?

Is he a foreigner or a US citizen entitled to be the President of the US if so elected ? :hmm:
So far he has avoided answering the question.
Oh right.....so surely there is a protocol in place for checking the legitimacy of candidates before they can stand for such a prestigious office :hmm:
You would think so but strange things happen. We're in kind of unknown territory here since Obama's birthplace is in question. Normally a candidate can supply a real birth certificate (not a Certificate of Live Birth).

Rgr that....this lobsterback is beginning to understand the situation now http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/thumbsup.gif

[Digital_Trucker]

Great video by Thunderf00t:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iuwr0TY6-qQ
May I ask what is so great about it?
The things those people claimed. Epic win. I think the last one was the best.:rotfl:

You could just as easily make a video of Obama supporters and out of contect clips of Obama and Biden. It proves nothing, except that the maker of the video and the poster of the link are Obama supporters.

[1480]

So what is the bottom line here?

Is he a foreigner or a US citizen entitled to be the President of the US if so elected ? :hmm:
So far he has avoided answering the question.
Oh right.....so surely there is a protocol in place for checking the legitimacy of candidates before they can stand for such a prestigious office :hmm:
You would think so but strange things happen. We're in kind of unknown territory here since Obama's birthplace is in question. Normally a candidate can supply a real birth certificate (not a Certificate of Live Birth).

Rgr that....this lobsterback is beginning to understand the situation now http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/thumbsup.gif

I believe the national parties who put someone on the ballot for POTUS are responsible for checking into matters as such. A little bit of rumor I'm hearing as of late, BHO may have more to worry about than where he was born....

[AVGWarhawk]

Great video by Thunderf00t:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iuwr0TY6-qQ

May I ask what is so great about it?

The things those people claimed. Epic win. I think the last one was the best.:rotfl:

I did not watch it until the end. About half way through I got a bit disgusted that these thoughts still go on. We have come far as a nation but still need some work. I did laugh at the guy who said Palin is a God fearing women. Rev Wright is a God fearing man but I would have reservation voting for him also.

[AVGWarhawk]

Great video by Thunderf00t:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iuwr0TY6-qQ
May I ask what is so great about it?
The things those people claimed. Epic win. I think the last one was the best.:rotfl:

You could just as easily make a video of Obama supporters and out of contect clips of Obama and Biden. It proves nothing, except that the maker of the video and the poster of the link are Obama supporters.

This is very true. Demographically speaking, those in the video are probably the McCain supporters who do not participate in the polling and the ones that could turn the election on it's head. Therefore, I would venture to guess the polls are skewed. Then again, there are others on the other side of the fence who are not participating in the polls. Facinating really.

[Stealth Hunter]

Great video by Thunderf00t:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iuwr0TY6-qQ
May I ask what is so great about it?
The things those people claimed. Epic win. I think the last one was the best.:rotfl:

You could just as easily make a video of Obama supporters and out of contect clips of Obama and Biden. It proves nothing, except that the maker of the video and the poster of the link are Obama supporters.

Although, nobody has. It was funny, you know it, get over it.

[Digital_Trucker]

Although, nobody has. It was funny, you know it, get over it.
Perhaps someone has, but it would be a waste of time, too. Watching raving lunatics and out of context clips from politicians is hardly funny. In fact, it's pathetic. Almost as pathetic as it being thought of as funny. You get over it.:D

Actually, in thinking about it, it's a pretty good example of the pot calling the kettle black. Dems are always crying that Repubs are trying to make people fear Obama. Videos like this look like Dems trying to make people fear Repubs. Funny it ain't, educational it is:rock:

[Frame57]

I do not fear the dems or the reps, but what i do fear is social engineering. For the Bill Clinton fans, I will tell you this; he balanced the budget by cutting capital gains taxes. The smartest thing he did! BO will raise taxes to put money into social engineering programs. I would not even label the man-a democrat. Even Bill Clinton understood what it takes to be economically sound. BO does not!

[SUBMAN1]

Just to clear the record in case anyone has questions on his true stance on this. Of course this also means that it is another record to the fact that we know nothing about him.

-S

Illinois State Rifle Association Executive Director Richard Pearson Issues Open Letter to Nation's Sportsmen Regarding Obama's History in the Illinois Senate



CHICAGO, Oct. 15 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- The following is the text
of an open letter to the nation's hunters and sportsmen issued today by
Illinois State Rifle Association Executive Director Richard Pearson:

Fellow Sportsman,

Hello, my name is Rich Pearson and I have been active in the firearm
rights movement for over 40 years. For the past 15 years, I have served in
the Illinois state capitol as the chief lobbyist for the Illinois State
Rifle Association.

I lobbied Barack Obama extensively while he was an Illinois State
Senator. As a result of that experience, I know Obama's attitudes toward
guns and gun owners better than anyone. The truth be told, in all my years
in the Capitol I have never met a legislator who harbors more contempt for
the law-abiding firearm owner than does Barack Obama.

Although Obama claims to be an advocate for the 2nd Amendment, his
voting record in the Illinois Senate paints a very different picture. While
a state senator, Obama voted for a bill that would ban nearly every hunting
rifle, shotgun and target rifle owned by Illinois citizens. That same bill
would authorize the state police to raid homes of gun owners to forcibly
confiscate banned guns. Obama supported a bill that would shut down
law-abiding firearm manufacturers including Springfield Armory, Armalite,
Rock River Arms and Les Baer. Obama also voted for a bill that would
prohibit law-abiding citizens from purchasing more than one gun per month.

Without a doubt, Barack Obama has proven himself to be an enemy of the
law abiding firearm owner. At the same time, Obama has proven himself to be
a friend to the hardened criminal. While a state senator, Obama voted 4
times against legislation that would allow a homeowner to use a firearm in
defense of home and family.

Does Barack Obama still sound to you like a "friend" of the law-abiding
gun owner?

And speaking of friends, you can always tell a person by the company
they keep. Obama counts among his friends the Rev. Michael Pfleger - a
renegade Chicago priest who has openly called for the murder of gun shop
owners and pro-gun legislators. Then there is his buddy Richard Daley, the
mayor of Chicago who has declared that if it were up to him, nobody would
be allowed to own a gun. And let's not forget Obama's pal George Soros -
the guy who has pumped millions of dollars into the UN's international
effort to disarm law-abiding citizens.

Obama has shown that he is more than willing to use other people's
money to fund his campaign to take your guns away from you. While a board
member of the leftist Joyce Foundation, Barack Obama wrote checks for tens
of millions of dollars to extremist gun control organizations such as the
Illinois Council Against Handgun Violence and the Violence Policy Center.

Does Barack Obama still sound to you like a "friend" of the law-abiding
gun owner?

By now, I'm sure that many of you have received mailings from an
organization called "American Hunters and Shooters Association(AHSA)"
talking about what a swell fellow Obama is and how he honors the 2nd
Amendment and how you will never have to worry about Obama coming to take
your guns. Let me make it perfectly clear - everything the AHSA says about
Obama is pure hogwash. The AHSA is headed by a group of left-wing elitists
who subscribe to the British view of hunting and shooting. That is, a state
of affairs where hunting and shooting are reserved for the wealthy
upper-crust who can afford guided hunts on exclusive private reserves. The
AHSA is not your friend, never will be.

In closing, I'd like to remind you that I'm a guy who has actually gone
nose to nose with Obama on gun rights issues. The Obama I know cannot even
begin to identify with this nation's outdoor traditions. The Obama I know
sees you, the law abiding gun owner, as nothing but a low-class lummox who
is easily swayed by the flash of a smile and a ration of rosy rhetoric. The
Obama I know is a stony-faced liar who has honed his skill at getting what
he wants - so long as people are willing to give it to him.

That's the Barack Obama I know.

The ISRA is the state's leading advocate of safe, lawful and
responsible firearms ownership. Founded in 1903, the ISRA has represented
the interests of millions of law-abiding Illinois firearm owners.http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/10-15-2008/0004904149&EDATE=

[Zachstar]

This goes in "Slam Obama" Subman... are you a 4 year old who can't understand basic policy?

[SUBMAN1]

This isn't a slam against Obama. It is a real issue.

One that needs to be known by potential voters.

Are you classifying any thread that has Obama in the name as a slam? Now that is censorship on your part.

-S

[Zachstar]

This isn't a slam against Obama. It is a real issue.

One that needs to be known by potential voters.

-S
No it is a slam. A political slam the same "We don't know Obama" attack that is said almost every day on Faux news. Only thing you are missing is the "Obama will have complete control" arguement McCain has sprouted today.

Why do you insist on raising the status of those on the left like Skybird by making those on the right look like idiots who can't follow simple policy? You have posted topic after topic that has been merged with the Slam Obama thread and yet you STILL do not get with the picture.

Edit: As for your censorship claim. Last time I checked it is .com and not .gov or .org and a private forum. Your claims of censorship mean nothing.

[SUBMAN1]

I'm sorry, but this doesn't qualify and you know it.

As i said above, you are classifying any thread that has Obama in the name as a slam and that is censorship on your part.

-S

[Zachstar]

I'm sorry, but this doesn't qualify and you know it.

As i said above, you are classifying any thread that has Obama in the name as a slam and that is censorship on your part.

-S

This is the reason you think people hate you. You start assuming what we think.

Eventually Neal is going to deal with this problem. Yes he may even ban me as well but I highly doubt the mods are happy about constantly check any topic you have started to see if they have to hit the merge button today. Subsim seems to be a home to post your propaganda and people are tired of it because it is not I REPEAT NOT a political forum.

You also felt your other topics did not qualify as a slam on Obama otherwise you would have followed policy right? The mods seemed to have not agreed with you and I HIGHLY doubt they will agree on this one.

Cry and moan about censorship if you want. It has never worked before and will not work again. This is a private forum plain and frakking simple.

[SUBMAN1]

This is the reason you think people hate you. You start assuming that we think....No. This is pretty clear that this is not the case.

-S

[SUBMAN1]

http://www.gunbanobama.com/

No here is an interesting website dedicated to the real policies of Obama.

-S

[Zachstar]

You really do want to be banned don't you?

[Sea Demon]

You really do want to be banned don't you?

Typical response from someone who votes for or supports Democrats. Don't like the message........find a way to censor or ban the messenger. Very typical.

[Sea Demon]

I'm sorry, but this doesn't qualify and you know it.

As i said above, you are classifying any thread that has Obama in the name as a slam and that is censorship on your part.

-S

Well getting the message out about Obama is something these people desperately don't want. Hence they consider the free flow of information as a threat or a "slam". It is one of their distinct weaknesses.

[August]

I do not fear the dems or the reps, but what i do fear is social engineering. For the Bill Clinton fans, I will tell you this; he balanced the budget by cutting capital gains taxes. The smartest thing he did! BO will raise taxes to put money into social engineering programs. I would not even label the man-a democrat. Even Bill Clinton understood what it takes to be economically sound. BO does not!

Actually Bill Clinton didn't cut or raise taxes, he just signed bills passed by Congress, and they're the ones who would fund any social engineering programs (otherwise known as porkbarrel) as well.

What I worry about is who Obamas advisers might be and how much of a negative influence they will have on his good judgment. He's shown a willingness to embrace dangerous radicals and I just hope to God that they don't own him as much as some folks believe they do.

It's never a good thing when both houses of Congress and the executive branch are all controlled by one party. Bad legislation gets passed because there is no need for consensus. It wasn't a good thing when the Republicans had it and it won't be a good thing if the Democrats get it.

[Onkel Neal]

Nobody is getting banned but this is more anti-Obama posts from the same person, so it goes in the pile.;)

[Zachstar]

You really do want to be banned don't you?
Typical response from someone who votes for or supports Democrats. Don't like the message........find a way to censor or ban the messenger. Very typical.

What is sadly typical is one poster flooding this forum time and time again with these anti-Obama topics.

The mods merged them anyway. It is people that think they have some "Right to know" crap from faux news or whatever. That cry "CENSORSHIP" on a private forum whenever people call out their actions.

I have been a repub before. I know the game. Whisper Campaigns and Misinfo 4 the win!

This year tho well people are tired of it. And I am tired of this member's topics flooding this forum when there are better things to discuss.

[Sea Demon]

What is sadly typical is one poster flooding this forum time and time again with these anti-Obama topics.

The mods merged them anyway. It is people that think they have some "Right to know" crap from faux news or whatever. That cry "CENSORSHIP" on a private forum whenever people call out their actions.

I have been a repub before. I know the game. Whisper Campaigns and Misinfo 4 the win!

This year tho well people are tired of it. And I am tired of this member's topics flooding this forum when there are better things to discuss.
Nonsense. In case you didn't notice there is a major election coming up with alot at stake for the country. I find discussing the candidates candidly needs to happen. But as usual when you don't like the message, you start hinting at "bannings" to try and shut the information flow. That's what Democrats do. You don't like the discussion....leave it. You have that freedom. Freedom...a concept foreign and vile to a typical Democrat. Personally, I think there are many horrible possibilities regarding Obama and total control of D.C. by democrats. And it needs to be talked about. Things like this:


http://www.workforce.com/section/00/article/25/83/58.php

"Democrats contemplate abolishing 401(k) tax breaks" . Mull that one over and tell me that Democrat control is a good thing.

[Zachstar]

Yes the old "Democrats are Tax and Spend! OH NOES!!"

Nobody is buying that junk now except people who vote republican anyway.

It's Over and the "Obama will have complete control!!" Stuff will not work either..

[Sea Demon]

Yes the old "Democrats are Tax and Spend! OH NOES!!"

Nobody is buying that junk now except people who vote republican anyway.

It's Over and the "Obama will have complete control!!" Stuff will not work either..

It's what they're saying. I'm not putting words in their mouths. There is nothing to buy, only things to pay attention to. I can't help it if voters on your side don't care or are grossly ingorant about tax deferred retirements, national security issues(Barney Frank looking for 25% military reductions WHILE WE ARE AT WAR), economic growth (Spreading the wealth?!?!?)and much much more. While I admire your overconfidence, Obama may or may not be elected. It's not over yet.

I'm sure you want me banned now to....right? :lol::roll:

[Digital_Trucker]

Yes the old "Democrats are Tax and Spend! OH NOES!!"

Nobody is buying that junk now except people who vote republican anyway.

It's Over and the "Obama will have complete control!!" Stuff will not work either..
Keep digging and see how deep the hole is in four years. If none of this stuff is going to "work" why are you trying so hard to dissuade anyone from paying any attention to it?:hmm:

[Monica Lewinsky]

Actually Bill Clinton didn't cut or raise taxes, he just signed bills passed by Congress, and they're the ones who would fund any social engineering programs (otherwise known as porkbarrel) as well.

And erected a nice library to honor him for up holding the honor of the office of president.

http://learnabit.homeserver.com/lab/clinton_lib.jpg

[Ishmael]

As an American citizen, a registered voter and a volunteer for the Obama campaign who personally registered 267 new voters here in Valencia County, New Mexico, here is why I voted for Barack Obama in early voting.
Like John McCain, I am a third-generation seafaring man. Unlike Sen. McCain, my dad and granddad weren't Admirals but able seamen sailing before the mast. My granddad went to sea on Square-riggers in 1900. My dad sailed all through World War 2 as a civilian merchant seamen seeing action at Attu, Kiska, North Africa, Sicily, Salerno, Anzio, Iwo Jima and the Occupation of Japan. I personally hunted the Great Steel Whales as a Destroyer Sonarman for six years across four of the five oceans and six of the seven seas. So call me...Ishmael.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAmwgT8_Kzg
My specialty in the US Navy was anti-submarine and anti-surface ship weapons systems. While I can neither confirm nor deny the presence of nuclear weapons aboard US naval vessels, I CAN tell you I was a member of the following special programs and inspections:
Personnel Reliability Program
Nuclear Weapons Handling Team
Nuclear Weapons Security Alert Team
Nuclear Weapons Security Backup Alert Force
Nuclear Weapons Accident/Incident Team
Nuclear Weapons Acceptance Inspection(passage needed to certify a ship nuclear-capable)
Annual Nuclear Technical Proficiency Inspections
Technical Surprise Inspections
When you consider that my battle station was as Firing Petty Officer, if nuclear weapons were aboard, it would have been my task to launch them. So, in a very real sense, my finger was on one of "The Buttons".
In order to be cleared for membership in the above, I had to demonstrate that I was a calm, intelligent, level-headed guy who could perform right action under enormous stress. The ONLY candidate who shows the same character traits I HAD TO SHOW for admittance to the above is Barack Hussein Obama. I have serious reservations about turning over control of the world's largest nuclear arsenal to a man like McCain who has documented Temper issues that even his own friends admit to and a poor grasp of world geography. When you compound that with Sarah Palin as VP, a known Biblical Millenialist, I find that quite frightening.
Now, as a third-generation seafaring man, I DO find two nautical characters McCain reminds me of. The First is a Jonah. A Jinx, Bad Luck incarnate. If you examine his record from the Naval Acadamy to now, you see bad luck, death and ruin follow in his wake. For those unfamiliar with a Jonah, here's a link to Father Mapple's Sermon from Moby Dick:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rWV8sBZ9ho
The other nautical character McCain reminds me of is Ahab. Scarred body and soul by his experiences, he is chasing his white whale of the Presidency. Not because he has any grand strategic vision for the nation, merely because he WANTS it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nH2g_vdoZEQ
So sign aboard the Pequod me lads. Aye, sign aboard you green-faced blowsies. Just remember what Elijah told me:
"There will come a day at sea when you'll smell land where there be no land. On that day Ahab will go to his grave. But he will rise again within the hour, rise and beckon. Then ALL, all save one will follow."
For this nation truly IS the crew of the Pequod. Drawn from all the isles of the sea and all the ends of the earth. From Greenland to Mombassa; from Clyde to Kokoboko.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-57WRL32wkA
I write this because I don't want to be like my namesake and have to say:
"I, alone, am left alive to tell thee the tale."
For I AM Ishmael and I must keep the true watch from the masthead.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZD9zCLRB1g

[August]

Ok, that was just weird...

[Sea Demon]

As an American citizen, a registered voter and a volunteer for the Obama campaign who personally registered 267 new voters here in Valencia County, New Mexico, here is why I voted for Barack Obama ...................
Nice. I appreciate your story on your military service. Alot of insight there. I was an officer in the USAF. And enlisted for a few years before that. While you are free to vote as you wish, as a former officer in the USAF, I fail to see how Obama could ever be fit for the Presidency. If I had the associates in question that he has had, in addition to some of the other things he's hiding, I never would have passed my own security clearance. Obama clearly would never have been cleared to do the job you did also without disclosing these things openly. When I went to OCS, my life had been an open book before I could wear the butter bars. I feel revulsion when I think that somebody like Obama is actually the Dem nominee. It also shows a complete lack of judgement in the halls of the DNC. McCain does have the temperament to be President despite the media feeding you the opposite. He also has actual command experience. Obama does not. Nor does Obama have the knowledge of military strategy or tactics, no executive decision making experience, and not one day as a head of any business.

As a matter of prime importance, I do believe McCain would actually defend this nation. Obama has not shown any indication that he takes national security very seriously due to some of the statements he has made regarding defunding our military. He has been very clear about it, of course until until quite recently. These are some of the reasons I have early voted for McCain. He's simply the only real choice out there in my own view. Obama in the Oval office will be a disaster. Not only from a domestic standpoint, but especially from a national security standpoint. As someone who also worked in the military profession, I have many concerns about Obama. I simply don't think he's up to the task, and don't think he will actually defend the country in any crises. Including the one Mr. Biden says an Obama presidency invites. I agree with Biden. Obama will invite many "challenges". And I don't believe he has what it takes to confront any of it.

[Frame57]

I do not fear the dems or the reps, but what i do fear is social engineering. For the Bill Clinton fans, I will tell you this; he balanced the budget by cutting capital gains taxes. The smartest thing he did! BO will raise taxes to put money into social engineering programs. I would not even label the man-a democrat. Even Bill Clinton understood what it takes to be economically sound. BO does not!

Actually Bill Clinton didn't cut or raise taxes, he just signed bills passed by Congress, and they're the ones who would fund any social engineering programs (otherwise known as porkbarrel) as well.

What I worry about is who Obamas advisers might be and how much of a negative influence they will have on his good judgment. He's shown a willingness to embrace dangerous radicals and I just hope to God that they don't own him as much as some folks believe they do.

It's never a good thing when both houses of Congress and the executive branch are all controlled by one party. Bad legislation gets passed because there is no need for consensus. It wasn't a good thing when the Republicans had it and it won't be a good thing if the Democrats get it.He signed legislation in 97 to drop it to 20% which resulted in revenue to balance the budget. Bush later dropped it to 15% but because of the tech bubble bust he did not see the continued results that the Clinton administration had. Unfortunatly!

[Morts]

Barney Frank looking for 25% military reductions WHILE WE ARE AT WAR
well, since america is always involved in some kind of conflict it would be hard to do it in peace time:rotfl:

[August]

He signed legislation in 97 to drop it to 20% which resulted in revenue to balance the budget. Bush later dropped it to 15% but because of the tech bubble bust he did not see the continued results that the Clinton administration had. Unfortunatly!

The reason I point out Congress as the author of those tax cuts is because I get the idea that our European friends tend to believe the President makes such decisions when he doesn't.

[Zachstar]

Ok, that was just weird...

And your response is rude.

[August]

Ok, that was just weird...
And your response is rude.

Thank you for your opinion.

[1480]

Ok, that was just weird...
And your response is rude.

Thank you for your opinion.

Get ready for all the changes to our vocabulary starting 25 JAN 09 if BHO is elected, weird is gone!

[JHuschke]

Obama is not even near believing in Socialism, Communism, nor Facism. He is a complete "muslimist", therefore we will have arabs praying "allah" in America if he becomes president. He must be prevented & we must have McCain, even though its not the best choice, but the better one.

[August]

Ok, that was just weird...
And your response is rude.
Thank you for your opinion.
Get ready for all the changes to our vocabulary starting 25 JAN 09 if BHO is elected, weird is gone!

Can we still use "special"?

[Morts]

Obama is not even near believing in Socialism, Communism, nor Facism. He is a complete "muslimist", therefore we will have arabs praying "allah" in America if he becomes president. He must be prevented & we must have McCain, even though its not the best choice, but the better one.

what exactly is wrong with being a muslim ?

[joegrundman]

Obama is not even near believing in Socialism, Communism, nor Facism. He is a complete "muslimist", therefore we will have arabs praying "allah" in America if he becomes president. He must be prevented & we must have McCain, even though its not the best choice, but the better one.

Hang on, what is it you fear exactly, because i may have a plan that could help you.

I mean it is already acceptable for Muslim Americans, even those of Arab ancestry, to pray to Allah, right? GWB himself even visited some mosques in the USA, where presumably Allah-praying-to has been known to occur. So i presume there is something more extreme than this that you specifically fear under an Obama presidency - something that must be stopped?

[August]

Obama is not even near believing in Socialism, Communism, nor Facism. He is a complete "muslimist", therefore we will have arabs praying "allah" in America if he becomes president. He must be prevented & we must have McCain, even though its not the best choice, but the better one.

I hate nazis... :nope:

[Skybird]

The intentional clean-washing of Islam and raising an illusion of how harmless it's ideology is (Morts, Joey) will lead to the same self-damaging outcome than making ridiculously, hilariously pointless attacks against Obama (JHuschke, Subman et. al.) - something this whole campaign has degenerated into: personal insults and false attacks. Is every lie acceptable these days in American politics if only it secures power? That is no political culture, that is a form of anarchy: the rule of the loudest voice and the meaniest lie. And all too often it is to be seen that those lying the loudest are also the first to point fingers at the other.

both this naivety about Islam, and the deeply corrupt and uneducated mess politics have degenerated into - where shine rules over substance and mudthrowing pays more off than argument - , is so very sick and revealing for the degeneration of the West. And both factors play into the hands of Islam. It grows by the failures of the West.

[August]

The intentional clean-washing of Islam and raising an illusion of how harmless it's ideology is (Morts, Joey) will lead to the same self-damaging outcome than making ridiculously, hilariously pointless attacks against Obama (JHuschke, Subman et. al.) - something this whole campaign has degenerated into: personal insults and false attacks. Is every lie acceptable these days in American politics if only it secures power? That is no political culture, that is a form of anarchy: the rule of the loudest voice and the meaniest lie. And all too often it is to be seen that those lying the loudest are also the first to point fingers at the other.

Quoting this from the king of finger pointing for posterity. :roll:

[Morts]

The intentional clean-washing of Islam and raising an illusion of how harmless it's ideology is (Morts, Joey) will lead to the same self-damaging outcome than making ridiculously, hilariously pointless attacks against Obama (JHuschke, Subman et. al.) - something this whole campaign has degenerated into: personal insults and false attacks. Is every lie acceptable these days in American politics if only it secures power? That is no political culture, that is a form of anarchy: the rule of the loudest voice and the meaniest lie. And all too often it is to be seen that those lying the loudest are also the first to point fingers at the other.

both this naivety about Islam, and the deeply corrupt and uneducated mess politics have degenerated into - where shine rules over substance and mudthrowing pays more off than argument - , is so very sick and revealing for the degeneration of the West. And both factors play into the hands of Islam. It grows by the failures of the West.
so, muslims are dangerous ? i'll just tell my iraqi neighbours that..i bet they'll chop my head off ! (not) they are the kindest people ive had as my neighbours i fail to see how they pose a threat to me by being...friendly !

[Konovalov]

I'm checking out from this thread and all other threads on the US elections, Obama, McCain, Palin, Muslims and Islam for a month or so. I have had enough and don't feel I can contribute anything more. Enjoy guys. Try to keep it civil and may the best candidate win. :yep:

[Skybird]

The intentional clean-washing of Islam and raising an illusion of how harmless it's ideology is (Morts, Joey) will lead to the same self-damaging outcome than making ridiculously, hilariously pointless attacks against Obama (JHuschke, Subman et. al.) - something this whole campaign has degenerated into: personal insults and false attacks. Is every lie acceptable these days in American politics if only it secures power? That is no political culture, that is a form of anarchy: the rule of the loudest voice and the meaniest lie. And all too often it is to be seen that those lying the loudest are also the first to point fingers at the other.

both this naivety about Islam, and the deeply corrupt and uneducated mess politics have degenerated into - where shine rules over substance and mudthrowing pays more off than argument - , is so very sick and revealing for the degeneration of the West. And both factors play into the hands of Islam. It grows by the failures of the West.
so, muslims are dangerous ? i'll just tell my iraqi neighbours that..i bet they'll chop my head off ! (not) they are the kindest people ive had as my neighbours i fail to see how they pose a threat to me by being...friendly !
Interesting attitude. Somebody criticises an ideology for it's teachings, and you reply with "But I have a friendly neighbour".

Mind if I leave that unanswered? ;) There already is the election thing to worry about.

[Frame57]

He signed legislation in 97 to drop it to 20% which resulted in revenue to balance the budget. Bush later dropped it to 15% but because of the tech bubble bust he did not see the continued results that the Clinton administration had. Unfortunatly!

The reason I point out Congress as the author of those tax cuts is because I get the idea that our European friends tend to believe the President makes such decisions when he doesn't.Agreed!:up:

[Morts]

The intentional clean-washing of Islam and raising an illusion of how harmless it's ideology is (Morts, Joey) will lead to the same self-damaging outcome than making ridiculously, hilariously pointless attacks against Obama (JHuschke, Subman et. al.) - something this whole campaign has degenerated into: personal insults and false attacks. Is every lie acceptable these days in American politics if only it secures power? That is no political culture, that is a form of anarchy: the rule of the loudest voice and the meaniest lie. And all too often it is to be seen that those lying the loudest are also the first to point fingers at the other.

both this naivety about Islam, and the deeply corrupt and uneducated mess politics have degenerated into - where shine rules over substance and mudthrowing pays more off than argument - , is so very sick and revealing for the degeneration of the West. And both factors play into the hands of Islam. It grows by the failures of the West.
so, muslims are dangerous ? i'll just tell my iraqi neighbours that..i bet they'll chop my head off ! (not) they are the kindest people ive had as my neighbours i fail to see how they pose a threat to me by being...friendly !
Interesting attitude. Somebody criticises an ideology for it's teachings, and you reply with "But I have a friendly neighbour".

Mind if I leave that unanswered? ;) There already is the election thing to worry about.
listen, there is nothing wrong with being a muslim...every religious person doesnt want to see everyone who dont belive in the same thing destroyed
its just a small amount of people who f*ck it up for the rest

[AVGWarhawk]

Ok, forget the Muslims. Good googly moogly. We need to concentrate on this:

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2008/10/mccain_slams_ob_3.html


It would seem that Obama has had a long standing idea of redistributing the wealth. This is what we need to investigate. Leave the Muslims alone. Personally I think Muslims got a bad name because of a handful of Muslims have made problems.

Now, lets find out exactly what we are faced with here concerning Obama.

[Skybird]

listen, there is nothing wrong with being a muslim...every religious person doesnt want to see everyone who dont belive in the same thing destroyed
its just a small amount of people who f*ck it up for the rest
Wrong, it is the ideology itself messing it up. But okay, let's follow Warhawks's advise to leave Islam out of this thread. Not that the McCain tirade is anything different than the usual campaigning propaganda and black-and-white painting...

[AVGWarhawk]

listen, there is nothing wrong with being a muslim...every religious person doesnt want to see everyone who dont belive in the same thing destroyed
its just a small amount of people who f*ck it up for the rest Wrong, it is the ideology itself messing it up. But okay, let's follow Warhawks's advise to leave Islam out of this thread. Not that the McCain tirade is anything different than the usual campaigning propaganda and black-and-white painting...

The tirade is part of the politics....there are more pressing issues concerning Obama than Muslims/Islam. Since we brought up Ideology, what is Obama's Ideology? I'm certainly getting mixed signals and there are far to many byes for Obama and more on the way.

[Digital_Trucker]

listen, there is nothing wrong with being a muslim...every religious person doesnt want to see everyone who dont belive in the same thing destroyed
its just a small amount of people who f*ck it up for the rest Wrong, it is the ideology itself messing it up. But okay, let's follow Warhawks's advise to leave Islam out of this thread. Not that the McCain tirade is anything different than the usual campaigning propaganda and black-and-white painting...
So, what you are saying is that people are infallible and religion, in and of itself, is FUBAR (fooked up beyond all repair)? I think you must be standing on your head when you post these ideas:doh:

[Tchocky]

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5ijDA5bgxiHlTvS_r-SSjskS1Tq1wD94323R01

[Thomen]

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5ijDA5bgxiHlTvS_r-SSjskS1Tq1wD94323R01
There ya go..

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081027/ap_on_el_pr/skinhead_plot;_ylt=ArPy7Gag.chom0BZofTPLGOs0NUE

EDIT:

Interestingly it does not say when those idiots were arrested or when the thing was planned to go down.
Could be month' old, though.

[JHuschke]

Obama is not even near believing in Socialism, Communism, nor Facism. He is a complete "muslimist", therefore we will have arabs praying "allah" in America if he becomes president. He must be prevented & we must have McCain, even though its not the best choice, but the better one.

Hang on, what is it you fear exactly, because i may have a plan that could help you.

I mean it is already acceptable for Muslim Americans, even those of Arab ancestry, to pray to Allah, right? GWB himself even visited some mosques in the USA, where presumably Allah-praying-to has been known to occur. So i presume there is something more extreme than this that you specifically fear under an Obama presidency - something that must be stopped? I do NOT fear him or his presidency whatsoever. I know that if it is him who becomes president, the U.S. will be more *******ed than it already is.

No offense and do not be offended, but it is pretty much the truth. Most people who are blacks, vote for Obama because he IS black. Some even vote for him because he is "cute", they do not pay attention to the facts or what he believes in.

But as I say, two choices, McCain and Obama..I do not like either of them, I wish there was someone else to be chosen besides these two. But there is no better option to go from except McCain.

[Skybird]

So, what you are saying is that people are infallible and religion, in and of itself, is FUBAR (fooked up beyond all repair)? I think you must be standing on your head when you post these ideas:doh:
Maybe i like standing on my head, for that way I see things that you don't, while other people keep plenty of distance to me, not to get infected from whatever my disease is - plenty of room for me where I can sin all day long without any god ever commanding or punishing me - who said that paradise is lost? :up:

[Tchocky]

No doubt, if he does become president, all those black folks out there who have no J-O-B and 50 kids to take care of will be getting brand new jaguars and buying 9mm's to stuff in their pants. It's just a whole new level of destruction of the United States.

Wow.

[Jimbuna]

Politics and religion....the root cause of so much trouble in mankind :nope:

[Thomen]

Since this is the "Slam Obama" thread,
lets sing a little song, shall we? ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l46t_nrySg4

[Digital_Trucker]

Since this is the "Slam Obama" thread,
lets sing a little song, shall we? ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l46t_nrySg4

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

[baggygreen]

No doubt, if he does become president, all those black folks out there who have no J-O-B and 50 kids to take care of will be getting brand new jaguars and buying 9mm's to stuff in their pants. It's just a whole new level of destruction of the United States.

Wow.I second this motion.

Wow.

Got stereotype much?

[Skybird]

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5ijDA5bgxiHlTvS_r-SSjskS1Tq1wD94323R01
There ya go..

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081027/ap_on_el_pr/skinhead_plot;_ylt=ArPy7Gag.chom0BZofTPLGOs0NUE

EDIT:

Interestingly it does not say when those idiots were arrested or when the thing was planned to go down.
Could be month' old, though.

Pah, it's all fake story, a trick by the commu... - i mean the democrats to bring their candidate into the headlines again and fish for votes given for sympathy with the poor black victim of evil rightwing conspiracy that is so very much misunderstood and underdogged these days. It must be so, for some months ago somebody in this forum told me that racist violence against a candidate is unthinkable in the USA... - US of A, i mean, and indicating that it might not be so, equals antirepub... - antiamericanism, i mean. Damn, God makes my socialist paranoid brainglibber desintegrating faster than it takes me to say "I am atheist" three times in a row. I wonder if I can reproduce my lefty atheist genes before he finishes me off completely... and fills my bran into glasses and sells it as blueberry jam... just look at Obama. He is a hidden jellyfish, i tell you.

An islamic jellyfish, that is. :cool:

You've been warned.

Don't eat him.

Fishing for votes - Jellyfish: you get the link, do you!? Fishing, jellyfish. Now you know. Take good care of yourself. Take very good care. Protect your family. Don't think of the ocean. Ocean is sin. Beware the black hidden jellyfish. Don't buy blueberry jam. It could be me.

[August]

No doubt, if he does become president, all those black folks out there who have no J-O-B and 50 kids to take care of will be getting brand new jaguars and buying 9mm's to stuff in their pants. It's just a whole new level of destruction of the United States.
Wow.

+1

I guess now we know how the nazis see the upcoming election.... :dead:

[mookiemookie]

No doubt, if he does become president, all those black folks out there who have no J-O-B and 50 kids to take care of will be getting brand new jaguars and buying 9mm's to stuff in their pants. It's just a whole new level of destruction of the United States.
Wow.
+1

I guess now we know how the nazis see the upcoming election.... :dead:

No wonder the world sees us Americans as a bunch of hicks. :nope:

[August]

No doubt, if he does become president, all those black folks out there who have no J-O-B and 50 kids to take care of will be getting brand new jaguars and buying 9mm's to stuff in their pants. It's just a whole new level of destruction of the United States.
Wow.
+1

I guess now we know how the nazis see the upcoming election.... :dead:
No wonder the world sees us Americans as a bunch of hicks. :nope:

Nazis aren't just lurking here in the US. Unfortunately they still exist in many dark corners of the world.

[August]

Obama breaks campaign promise:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/28/campbell.brown.obama/index.html#cnnSTCText

[AVGWarhawk]

Well, that ended that Mikhayl:up:

[baggygreen]

i tell you, I'll be bloody happy when this whole kerfuffle is over and done with. The restoration of civility on all fronts here will be pleasant

[VipertheSniper]

i tell you, I'll be bloody happy when this whole kerfuffle is over and done with. The restoration of civility on all fronts here will be pleasant

I think that depends wholly on the outcome of the election

[AVGWarhawk]

i tell you, I'll be bloody happy when this whole kerfuffle is over and done with. The restoration of civility on all fronts here will be pleasant

It is getting a bit trying for sure. But, hey, we can sit back then and discuss all the undelivered promises by the winner. :up:

[AVGWarhawk]

No worries, I knew who you were talking about and I think others will. The OP deleted his own posts. It will be buried before long.

BTW, I see your location is in The Republic of France. My daughter just loves France and it is her goal to travel there.

[August]

I don't know who deleted the 2 posts but now it looks as if I was adressing August :nope:

I thought that was a bit harsh! :D

[Digital_Trucker]

I don't know who deleted the 2 posts but now it looks as if I was adressing August :nope:

Glad that was cleared up. I never saw the 2 posts and jumped to the wrong conclusion. :oops:

[August]

LOL, indeed :rotfl:

AVG, that's funny, my goal is to "travel out" of France, for some time I even considered moving to the US :p
That always made me curious, why so many Americans are so fond of cheese-eating-surrender-monkey-land :D Ok, I can see some reasons, but still ...

French accents make pretty girls doubly hot. That's my story and i'm stickin' to it.

[Onkel Neal]

That always made me curious, why so many Americans are so fond of cheese-eating-surrender-monkey-land :D Ok, I can see some reasons, but still ...

Pfftt, I'm a big fan of France myself. Been there four times, and I plan to go again in 2009. It's a shame many Americans willingly conform to the "be rude to France" mentality.

Neal

[1480]

LOL, indeed :rotfl:

AVG, that's funny, my goal is to "travel out" of France, for some time I even considered moving to the US :p
That always made me curious, why so many Americans are so fond of cheese-eating-surrender-monkey-land :D Ok, I can see some reasons, but still ...

Glad to see a fellow Simpson's fan on board...:up:

[baggygreen]

LOL, indeed :rotfl:

AVG, that's funny, my goal is to "travel out" of France, for some time I even considered moving to the US :p
That always made me curious, why so many Americans are so fond of cheese-eating-surrender-monkey-land :D Ok, I can see some reasons, but still ...

French accents make pretty girls doubly hot. That's my story and i'm stickin' to it.My browser must've died before it posted my comment earlier.

true story - was suckered in by the good looks and the accent (her halting english was apparently as attractive as my austrayan-tainted french) and a bit later that night - ouch. more underarm and leg hair than I had myself!:down: :dead:

Don't be suckered by the accent!

[AVGWarhawk]

LOL, indeed :rotfl:

AVG, that's funny, my goal is to "travel out" of France, for some time I even considered moving to the US :p
That always made me curious, why so many Americans are so fond of cheese-eating-surrender-monkey-land :D Ok, I can see some reasons, but still ...
Tell you what Mikhayl, my parents were in France when 9/11 happened. They said the people were very sympathetic and very helpful in getting any news they might have to them. I could not reach them for 3 days. When I was able to, they had nothing but nice things to say about France and how helpful the people were. My daughter who is 10 for some reason has fallen in love with France and more specifically Paris. I'm not sure of the allure for her. So, I save a few dollars here and there for her. When she is mature enough for a trip to France, off she goes. :up:

[Thomen]

So, who watched the Obama 'info-mertial' last night? Your thoughts?

I only watched some snippeds and even stopped watching those after: " Families that make less then $200.000 will get a tax break"

We are down to $200.000 for joint filers now?

[Digital_Trucker]

So, who watched the Obama 'info-mertial' last night? Your thoughts?

I only watched some snippeds and even stopped watching those after: " Families that make less then $200.000 will get a tax break"

We are down to $200.000 for joint filers now?

If you ask Joe Biden, it's down to $150,000:rotfl:

[August]

So, who watched the Obama 'info-mertial' last night? Your thoughts?

I only watched some snippeds and even stopped watching those after: " Families that make less then $200.000 will get a tax break"

We are down to $200.000 for joint filers now?
If you ask Joe Biden, it's down to $150,000:rotfl:

And the media refuses to take note of it.

[AVGWarhawk]

So, who watched the Obama 'info-mertial' last night? Your thoughts?

I only watched some snippeds and even stopped watching those after: " Families that make less then $200.000 will get a tax break"

We are down to $200.000 for joint filers now?
If you ask Joe Biden, it's down to $150,000:rotfl:
And the media refuses to take note of it.

It depends on what media you are viewing:up:

[baggygreen]

Ouch BG, either that was in the 70's or it was just plain bad luck :rotfl:Mikhayl, c'était depuis 5 ans.

Did i get that right?? I'm a little rusty..

Yes, I attribute it to pure bad luck. However, not all was bad that night.

[baggygreen]

but of course. :damn:

I've always felt it is a case of "use it or lose it" when it comes to language, and I've neglected both my french and my Indonesian. Perhaps that rule applies to more than just language??:|\\

No, leave was taken from my simianesque friend asap!

[Digital_Trucker]

For what it's worth Obama kicks reporters off of plane (http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/31/obama-plane-pitches-reporters-mccain-endorsing-papers/)

[August]

Those that oppose McCain share that opinion with Al Quaeda:

http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSTRE49T76620081030?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&rpc=22&sp=true

[August]

Those that oppose McCain share that opinion with Al Quaeda:

http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSTRE49T76620081030?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&rpc=22&sp=true
That's quite a surprise, I would have expected them to wear McCain-Palin '08 T-shirts.

I guess you expected wrong then...

[August]

Fred Thompsons take on this election.

http://www.eyeblast.tv/public/video.aspx?v=e46UkUDkDk

[Thomen]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081101/ap_on_el_pr/obama_aunt

I feel for the woman.. now she gets harassed by the media. But it makes me wonder, though. Would her request or application been denied if she had a state senator as sponsor?

[AVGWarhawk]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081101/ap_on_el_pr/obama_aunt

I feel for the woman.. now she gets harassed by the media. But it makes me wonder, though. Would her request or application been denied if she had a state senator as sponsor?

So, you mean to tell me this women who's nephew is a Senator did not ask for help and Barry knew nothing about it either? So, was Barry really vetted or not? Looks like another bye on the way.

[Thomen]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081101/ap_on_el_pr/obama_aunt

I feel for the woman.. now she gets harassed by the media. But it makes me wonder, though. Would her request or application been denied if she had a state senator as sponsor?
So, you mean to tell me this women who's nephew is a Senator did not ask for help and Barry knew nothing about it either? So, was Barry really vetted or not? Looks like another bye on the way.

http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=gwaAVJITx1Y

:hmm:

[CTU_Clay]

http://www.usawakeup.org/USSA.htm

[AVGWarhawk]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081101/ap_on_el_pr/obama_aunt

I feel for the woman.. now she gets harassed by the media. But it makes me wonder, though. Would her request or application been denied if she had a state senator as sponsor?
So, you mean to tell me this women who's nephew is a Senator did not ask for help and Barry knew nothing about it either? So, was Barry really vetted or not? Looks like another bye on the way.

http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=gwaAVJITx1Y

:hmm:

Hey, it creates jobs:up: We had the civil airpatrols in WW2. If terrorism is as active as they say...and it is, this might be a very good plan.