Good news, this is my last post here about politics.

[Flamingboat]

Mods told me to be silent so I will respect their wishes. I see all the inflamatory rhetoric is trolling when it's a liberal doing it. Oh well I do realize liberal military sim gamers are an extremely small minority to say the least.

[Morts]

wow..you get told to keep quiet...but sea demon and subman1 can keep spreading their "propaganda" ? and starting flame like wars ?

...what a joke:-?

[stabiz]

Nah, most of the strange world called Europe agree with you yank liberals, we just dont bother jumping on the jihad some of the conservatives are running here in the GT forum. Nothing good comes from it, especially since its very polarized. (NRA vs treehuggers)

I just have a warm fuzzy feeling that the US is changing for the better, the frantic activity of some members indicates so. :)

[Zachstar]

Mods told me to be silent so I will respect their wishes. I see all the inflamatory rhetoric is trolling when it's a liberal doing it. Oh well I do realize liberal military sim gamers are an extremely small minority to say the least.

It's life. Tho you have to admit it is 100 percent useless to talk politics here.

#1 People who are here mostly know who they are voting for already. And are HIGHLY unlikely to make their choices based on topics in GT.

#2 The is a brick wall on both sides. You mention troopergate and you get a "Not the whole story" You mention Prop 8 gaining and you get "Not the whole story"

[Hylander_1314]

Awe man, come on dude, I like your colorful use of the english language.

All the mods said in the post was to tone it down a few notches. That's no reason to clam up on it.

Beside, our exchanges didn't tread on mudslinging, we both kept it pretty much to the facts, which is great.

[Frame57]

Mods told me to be silent so I will respect their wishes. I see all the inflamatory rhetoric is trolling when it's a liberal doing it. Oh well I do realize liberal military sim gamers are an extremely small minority to say the least.Darn it! Well there is always religion....:D

[PeriscopeDepth]

Nothing good comes from it, especially since its very polarized. (NRA vs treehuggers)
Yup. It's silly talking politics in this, or any Internet forum. I really, really try to resist doing so but every now and again end up doing it.

People that spend so much of their time on the Subsim.com forums posting political "headlines" and making it their mission to convert people or "influence" the election, really need to put a clock above their monitor... or something.

PD

[stabiz]

:rotfl:

:up:

[CCIP]

For the record, in the relevant mod discussion about the recent flaring of tempers, I was the mod who suggested that the certain people (note, people - not person) who are getting at each other and inciting bad behaviour/personal attacks are asked (nicely, as far as possible) to cool it down. I wasn't the one to bring up the issue, but I agreed with the points that other mods brought up. I'm glad that another mod followed up on it.

Considering that I've repeatedly stated my sociopolitical stance as not just liberal, but even socialist, I think the point on 'anti-liberal bias' among moderators is moot. We only have an anti-bad-behaviour bias. Committing or deliberately inciting personal attacks is certainly bad forum behaviour, and the administration really doesn't care which side it comes from. So please don't!

Also, keep in mind that this forum is Neal's submarine simulation club, not the mock UN club. The fact that we can talk about other things here is conditional on the fact that it doesn't sour up the athmosphere of Subsim's main activity. Many other simulation forums, for instance, outright ban political discussions. Just because Neal thought it would be better to let people talk about whatever they wanted doesn't mean it should be taken as an invitation to incite and flame others. That's all. Just play nice, alright? And just because someone else is acting badly on that or other occasion, or posting something that offends you, doesn't mean you have to do the same. The moderators will deal with other people's bad behaviour, we only ask that you look after yours.

That's all. Play nice!

[Letum]

Flamingboat: Why did you start this topic?

It looks to me like an attempt to undermine the mods. :nope:
What ever the merit or demeri of the point you are trying to make, this is not the way to make it.

[Takeda Shingen]

Yup. It's silly talking politics in this, or any Internet forum. I really, really try to resist doing so but every now and again end up doing it.

People that spend so much of their time on the Subsim.com forums posting political "headlines" and making it their mission to convert people or "influence" the election, really need to put a clock above their monitor... or something.

PD
PD has the right point. SubSim.com is not a political forum. Too many people treat it like one.Flamingboat, all that anyone said is that it is considered poor 'netiquite' to call out a specific member in a very inflamatory thread. 'Debate the issue, not the person' has been the rule here for many, many years. I've been sporatically visting GT all day, and you have been here each time, growing more agitated with each visit. It was going to land you in some very hot water, and all anyone did was try to tell you to take a few hours away. None of the threads are locked. No one is in the brig. No one was banned. No one shouted down your viewpoint. Just come back later. I promise that you'll feel better after a break. Everyone always does.As far as SubSim and it's moderating team, I think it is silly to insist that there is a right-leaning tendency in the editorial policy. Anyone who has read this forum for a few years should know that the only two people that were ever banned in the discourse of political discussion were both right-leaning conservatives.People are too high-strung over this. Election day cannot come fast enough.

[CCIP]

the only two people that were ever banned in the discourse of political discussion were both right-leaning conservatives.
Yes indeed. And both accused the Subsim administration of liberal bias repeatedly before they were booted, if I remember correctly :D

[Monica Lewinsky]

Mods told me to be silent so I will respect their wishes. I see all the inflamatory rhetoric is trolling when it's a liberal doing it. Oh well I do realize liberal military sim gamers are an extremely small minority to say the least.

Look at this:

http://learnabit.homeserver.com/lab/greatest_movie_line_ever.wmv

before your ban.

Ali Babba Obama has all the answers to everything.

[Skybird]

Nothing good comes from it, especially since its very polarized. (NRA vs treehuggers)
Yup. It's silly talking politics in this, or any Internet forum. I really, really try to resist doing so but every now and again end up doing it.


Give me some of what did the trick for you - sometimes I could use it, I admit. :)

[Zachstar]

Mods told me to be silent so I will respect their wishes. I see all the inflamatory rhetoric is trolling when it's a liberal doing it. Oh well I do realize liberal military sim gamers are an extremely small minority to say the least.
Look at this:

http://learnabit.homeserver.com/lab/greatest_movie_line_ever.wmv

before your ban.

Ali Babba Obama has all the answers to everything.

Stop your hostility

[stabiz]

If its the real Lewinsky I understand the beef towards Democrats.:)

[Flamingboat]

Flamingboat: Why did you start this topic?

It looks to me like an attempt to undermine the mods. :nope:
What ever the merit or demeri of the point you are trying to make, this is not the way to make it.

So you knew what I stopped posting here. It is an FYI, not an attempt to undermine mods. It's their house and I respect their rules. I am an open book, so I say whats going on. Why in the world would I want to anger the mods and get cutoff from the GLORY of GWX quality mods!? I didn't want anyone to think the republicans ran me off. The mods are fine, I only came to the general forum a few days ago because I was looking for some info on Pacific Fighters that I just bought. I saw politics and got sucked into it. I play SH3 and SH4 and this is the first time I wandered off those forums.

I'm surprised it took them so like to tell me to shush, I must be losing my touch. I'm just a grown up version of the kid who told the other kids Santa Claus was a lie.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Stop your hostility

Ali Babba Obomba done something wrong?

According to him. he has the answers to EVERYTHING.

[Rockin Robbins]

Mods told me to be silent so I will respect their wishes. I see all the inflamatory rhetoric is trolling when it's a liberal doing it. Oh well I do realize liberal military sim gamers are an extremely small minority to say the least.
Look at this:

http://learnabit.homeserver.com/lab/greatest_movie_line_ever.wmv

before your ban.

Ali Babba Obama has all the answers to everything.
:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:That's GREAT!!!!

Now reflect that in the late 30's and up until after the attack on Pearl Harbor, the Republicans were a bunch of head in the sand isolationists at best and Nazi sympathizers, led by Charles Lindberg, at worst. It was Democrats who stood up for this country and the world, declaring that they were willing to pay the price that history demanded of them.

In the leadup to the war, President Roosevelt risked sure impeachment and conviction if his actions to import the British secret service and half of their government into the United States was ever discovered. Churchill was able to prevent Britain from throwing in with the Nazis in large part because of Roosevelt's courageous, secret and very illegal support. King Edward did not abdicate because of the "woman he loved" he abdicated because he was a Nazi sympathizer who would have allied Britain with Germany. Churchill brokered the abdication and his flight to Canada just for that reason. Source: A Man Called Intrepid.

It would be stupid to write off Democrats as permanently the party of the socialist, tree hugging pansies.

First, they aren't pansies. If they are successful in withdrawing from Iraq and if Al Queda strikes the US again, you will never imagine a fiercer and more final attack than they will launch. The Republican war has been a patty cake war. You ain't seen how its done until the Democrats receive the predictable result of telegraphing weakness.

Although they talk the socialist line, they are pragmatists. When confronted with hard reality they will do the right thing. There are no socialists in an economic storm. Socialism can only survive amidst capitalist prosperity, living as a parasite. Look at the changes in Europe right now, going more conservative just about everywhere.

And their anti-capitalist tree hugging ways will change as private enterprise finds ways to be more environmentally friendly without all of us living in caves. Solutions always come from capitalist private enterprise, not government. After the problem is solved, government falls into step and tries to claim credit, most of the time doing the right thing for the wrong reasons.

We're not talking about the eventual result, only the price tag.

[Diopos]

Got my chinese delivery last night
Opened my fortune cookie ...
It said:
"Never post more then once on a GT forum during an US election"

Well I had my chance....:D

[Skybird]

After watching it in several threads over one day, I cannot really understand what all the fuss about Flamingboat'S original posting that called up mod's attention is about, because there have been much more serious and offending incidents with far more vitriol and aggression - that were accepted to just pass by unmoderated, but shouldn't have. This lack of moderation is one of the main reasons why my personal ignore list is so full today, and it all is names who turned into personal verbal aggression. I miss both constancy, and at times unbiased balancing of standards that decide wether somebody gets warned and called back, or not.

And no, I am not calling it personal offense if somebody disagrees with me. The callibre I speak of is being accused of regretting you cannot send people into the gas chambre if they disagree with you, as happened some weeks ago - a comment that I really took with anger and will not forgive nor forget: compared to comments like that, Flamingboat's deed is almost harmless. And there happenes much more at times that although being worse than Flaminboat, raises no moderation at all.

One can disagree in things, and one can be clear about one'S opinion, and defend it, without turning unpolite, bullying others, and using offending and overly aggressive language that tries to hurt on the personal level and give others a bad name as a substitute for giving argument. One must not mistake an abstract discussion with an insult aimed at the personal level. I know that that can be done, because I experience that time and again in PM and emails, and talks about both relgion and politics - even with people who disagree with me, and nevertheless it almost always is a civil and frendly conversation. Some people in forums nevertheless seem to think if the other cannot grab them and confront them directly over their bad behavior, this is card blanche to misbehave and turning rude and use what they consider to be tough and male language (where in fact it is just expression of their intellectual helplesness).

As long as moderation does not show more consistency in this regard, I still recommend to ban all discussions in the GT forum that are about religion, and in principle: politics as well. Even climate has proven to be a potentially inflamatory issue, and others could be imagined. Since then a ban of one thing seem to lead to more bans of others, maybe it is better to have more constant moderating, and leave it to announcements that certain themes are discouraged.

The advise to simply leave bullies alone and not reacting to them, means nothing else than to leave the board to them and see it degenerating. We have a saying in german, " the more clever man gives way/der Klügere gibt nach". But the simple truth is that by that rule the stupid rule the world. It would be a shame to see this forum going down that way.

[Dowly]

Come on Flamingboat! Keep it up! Your posts are great to read. :up:

[Morts]

Come on Flamingboat! Keep it up! Your posts are great to read. :up:
i agree:up:

[DiverDan]

There are plenty of places on the net to discuss politics. This is a SubSim forum, so I don't see why we can't enjoy somewhere without the injection of politics?

Why spoil a good thing?

[Dowly]

Politics been always one of the most heated subjects of debate here. But I agree, SubSim should be free of politics. Would clear the air alot. :yep:

[Raptor1]

We could always drag anyone who talks about politics into the street and shoot him...

[Digital_Trucker]

We could always drag anyone who talks about politics into the street and shoot him...

In that case, we better hire a big reefer truck loaded with body bags to haul off the bodies:rotfl:

[Flamingboat]

Come on Flamingboat! Keep it up! Your posts are great to read. :up:

Thanks for your support. My philosophy has been to jump in and duke it out with those who don't agree with me. I don't learn anything on a liberal board where we all nod and agree with each other.

Like I said, I'll respect the mods. No they didn't say shut it, just cool it. Well, frankly I don't know how to fight with gloves on, so it is best for me to be silent. My southern redneck past will never fully leave me, and well, like my dad said "the only fair fight is the one you win". :know:

Really there isn't much "debate" about this election to be honest. The whole world knows how it's going to end! It's just fun to irritate the right wingers over here from the left, since we have been waiting 8 years for our moment of glory. That's why the democratic primary was so intense, we knew whoever was the democratic nominee would be president, period. From the past few weeks on it's just been the media trying to make it look heated. :rock:

[Digital_Trucker]

It's just fun to irritate the right wingers over here from the left, since we have been waiting 8 years for our moment of glory. :rock:
And just as much fun to say "I told you so" when your moment of glory turns into a total disaster like the last two democratic presidents.:D

[DiverDan]

Come on Flamingboat! Keep it up! Your posts are great to read. :up:

Thanks for your support. My philosophy has been to jump in and duke it out with those who don't agree with me. I don't learn anything on a liberal board where we all nod and agree with each other.

Like I said, I'll respect the mods. No they didn't say shut it, just cool it. Well, frankly I don't know how to fight with gloves on, so it is best for me to be silent. My southern redneck past will never fully leave me, and well, like my dad said "the only fair fight is the one you win". :know:

Really there isn't much "debate" about this election to be honest. The whole world knows how it's going to end! It's just fun to irritate the right wingers over here from the left, since we have been waiting 8 years for our moment of glory. That's why the democratic primary was so intense, we knew whoever was the democratic nominee would be president, period. From the past few weeks on it's just been the media trying to make it look heated. :rock:

I haven't read your past posts, but it sounds like I would probably agree with your views, BUT, there are SO many other places to discuss politics with anyone and everyone. I find it refreshing to come here and "escape" from the real world by reading fun and helpful information on playing my favorite game. I can start an argument anywhere, but here, it's nice to see people with a common interest. That's all I'm saying... why not consider why you're here to begin with?

Just my 2 cents worth!

[Flamingboat]

And just as much fun to say "I told you so" when your moment of glory turns into a total disaster like the last two democratic presidents.:D

Speaking of disasters.... :sunny:

http://www.theonion.com/content/video/bush_tours_america_to_survey

[Hylander_1314]

But dude, as long as you stayed with the facts, it was cool. Nothing great ever came from just noddin' and agreein'. Just like the founders did in the Constitutional Convention of 1791. Many heated debates there, but they stayed focused on the issues at hand. The only thing I can think of, is the "name calling" type of stuff that errupted. No matter who started it, it's always ugly. Just stick with the facts man, you did good that way. I enjoyed it, even if we disagreed fundimentally. That's the best part of being an American. To think and be different. To have dissenting ideas and not have to worry about it in mind and person. Just don't let anyone bait you, and don't do it to anyone else. That's not goin' in with the gloves on. It's goin' in well informed for strategic purposes.

[Frame57]

After watching it in several threads over one day, I cannot really understand what all the fuss about Flamingboat'S original posting that called up mod's attention is about, because there have been much more serious and offending incidents with far more vitriol and aggression - that were accepted to just pass by unmoderated, but shouldn't have. This lack of moderation is one of the main reasons why my personal ignore list is so full today, and it all is names who turned into personal verbal aggression. I miss both constancy, and at times unbiased balancing of standards that decide wether somebody gets warned and called back, or not.

And no, I am not calling it personal offense if somebody disagrees with me. The callibre I speak of is being accused of regretting you cannot send people into the gas chambre if they disagree with you, as happened some weeks ago - a comment that I really took with anger and will not forgive nor forget: compared to comments like that, Flamingboat's deed is almost harmless. And there happenes much more at times that although being worse than Flaminboat, raises no moderation at all.

One can disagree in things, and one can be clear about one'S opinion, and defend it, without turning unpolite, bullying others, and using offending and overly aggressive language that tries to hurt on the personal level and give others a bad name as a substitute for giving argument. One must not mistake an abstract discussion with an insult aimed at the personal level. I know that that can be done, because I experience that time and again in PM and emails, and talks about both relgion and politics - even with people who disagree with me, and nevertheless it almost always is a civil and frendly conversation. Some people in forums nevertheless seem to think if the other cannot grab them and confront them directly over their bad behavior, this is card blanche to misbehave and turning rude and use what they consider to be tough and male language (where in fact it is just expression of their intellectual helplesness).

As long as moderation does not show more consistency in this regard, I still recommend to ban all discussions in the GT forum that are about religion, and in principle: politics as well. Even climate has proven to be a potentially inflamatory issue, and others could be imagined. Since then a ban of one thing seem to lead to more bans of others, maybe it is better to have more constant moderating, and leave it to announcements that certain themes are discouraged.

The advise to simply leave bullies alone and not reacting to them, means nothing else than to leave the board to them and see it degenerating. We have a saying in german, " the more clever man gives way/der Klügere gibt nach". But the simple truth is that by that rule the stupid rule the world. It would be a shame to see this forum going down that way.Who are you to recommend what is banned or not???

[Digital_Trucker]

Maybe SkyBird should look up the definition of the word forum:

a medium (as a newspaper or online service) of open discussion or expression of ideas
from http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/forum

[Skybird]

Hm? War was...?