View Full Version : German armed forced get again dedicated medal for valor
Skybird
10-10-08, 08:55 AM
After WW2, dedicated medals for courage were politically most uncorrect, the history of the Iron Cross appeared to be too questionable.
The new medal copies hspae and form of then Iron Cross, but is not called as that but "Honour-Medal of the Bundeswehr for Valor" (Ehrenmedaille der Bundeswehr für Tapferkeit), or short: Ehrenkreuz für Tapferkeit (Honour Cross for Valor).
Picture here:
http://www.welt.de/politik/article2557883/Neuer-Tapferkeitsorden-fuer-deutsche-Soldaten.html
the problem, imo, is that the Iron Cross by far is not just a Nazi medal, but has had a much longer history. And that forms a tradition. The new medal now is just this: new, without any meaning or tradition. Seen that way, it may face difficulties to get accepted and respected. It is tradition and history that makes the value of such a decoration. If history and tradition is missing, it is not more than a piece of metal with som colour attached to it.
they should have re-accepted a medal for valor (before, there were none), yes, but they really should have called it the Iron Cross. After all, it is the symbol of Germany's Armed Forces - today.
Also see:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=798550&postcount=13
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=132413&highlight=Iron+Cross
Agreed. Contrary to popular believe the Iron cross was first issued during the napoleonic aera, in the wars for independence 1813. Agreed to all your points. Unluckily the polititians lack the balls for a propper reintroduction, fearing the backslash of WW2, not giving the iron cross any chance to win back its traditional reputation and respect.
That was predictable, however.
Flamingboat
10-10-08, 10:53 AM
I would have rather Germany won the war to be honest. Hell I would rather be speaking German than Spanish :damn:
Digital_Trucker
10-10-08, 11:13 AM
I would have rather Germany won the war to be honest. Hell I would rather be speaking German than Spanish :damn: :nope:
I would have rather Germany won the war to be honest. Hell I would rather be speaking German than Spanish :damn:
your preferences for languages out of this, I seriously doubt you'd enjoy a german victory nowadays.
Flamingboat
10-10-08, 11:19 AM
I would have rather Germany won the war to be honest. Hell I would rather be speaking German than Spanish :damn:
your preferences for languages out of this, I seriously doubt you'd enjoy a german victory nowadays.
Germany didn't have a problem with us during the "European war". The powerful European banking families drug us into it just like in world war 1.
kiwi_2005
10-10-08, 11:20 AM
I would have rather Germany won the war to be honest. Hell I would rather be speaking German than Spanish :damn:
Are you out of your mind! :o
Hylander_1314
10-10-08, 11:31 AM
Yes but would ethnic cleansing apply to you? I had many cousins who came to America after the war ended, and they did not paint a very pretty picture of what went on during the NAZI regime.
It would really be nice to see the order Poure Le Merit come back into fashion. A very stunning medal in it's visual appearance. I think Frederick the Great created this one.
The only reason I would prefer Deutche over Espanol is I used to speak it as a youngster growing up, until grampa forbade it after I started school. He said, you're an American, speak english. You're not in Germany. I think he did that, since the adults would use Greman, Polish, Austrian, and Ukranian if they didn't want the kids to know what was being said.
This new medal may lack tradition, but that is something it can gain in time.
It's probably the best solution. A good compromise.
Flamingboat
10-10-08, 01:15 PM
Yes but would ethnic cleansing apply to you?
No, I'm 6 feet tall and white. I could easily play a German extra in Das Boot or any world war 2 movie. I wouldn't say I would have liked them to win if I was jewish obviously. I'm not, so it doesn't concern me. I know the Palestinians would sure have liked Germany to win. I know this is not PC to say, but Israel has shown they are just as brutal by the way they have been treating their neighbors over the past several decades. Of course we are supposed to ignore this because they were the victims in world war 2.
Hylander_1314
10-10-08, 01:29 PM
But it did not apply to just Jewish People. There were something like another 5,000,000 Europeans who perished in the camps too. Poles, Czechs, French, Russian, Ukrainian, and people from other sovereign nations on the continent. Germans and Austrians included.
Poles for instance were looked upon as slave labor and fit for nothing else. Russians too were looked upon as subhumans for slave labor, and extermination. Although the Germans used Ukrainians as partisans.
It was a revolting regime, on a brutality level in human numbers that hadn't been seen in quite some time.
But lets not get too far off topic, as the thread does apply to modern times. And Germany is not a bad nation. They are a respectable people with great fortitude to overcome the images of the past.
Task Force
10-10-08, 01:50 PM
They always have to change everything, Look at Japan, They still keep there WW2 flag, But look at some of the horiable things they did.:roll:
Skybird
10-10-08, 03:51 PM
Let'S keep the nasty stuff out of here, please. The Third Reich should have won WWII? Hell, we all should feel glad it didn't. It would have been hell on earth. And for many it was.
PeriscopeDepth
10-10-08, 03:54 PM
Let'S keep the nasty stuff out of here, please. The Third Reich should have won WWII? Hell, we all should feel glad it didn't. It would have been hell on earth. And for many it was. Well said Sky. And as for the medal, it seems to have far far more tradition than a Nazi merit badge. And there should be no fear in honoring military tradition like that.
PD
mrbeast
10-10-08, 04:43 PM
Every medal was new at some point it will gain tradition and become an honour in time.
BTW Hylander_1314, agree on the Pour Le Merit, lovely medal.:up:
Skybird, well said.:up:
its funny that they wont reinstate the iron cross as a medal and its painted all over their air force;)
Hylander_1314
10-10-08, 05:46 PM
Let'S keep the nasty stuff out of here, please. The Third Reich should have won WWII? Hell, we all should feel glad it didn't. It would have been hell on earth. And for many it was.
Agreed:up:
its funny that they wont reinstate the iron cross as a medal and its painted all over their air force;)
And I think the tanks also have it (and the planes of WW1 also had it, and possibly all the arm forces) but Skybird or other one that knows can correct me! This case is more like a simbol for german arm forces.
It's like our Christ Cross, it's a symbol of our nation (along with our shield) and so of our arm forces (army,navy and air force;but I think the last two uses it more).
About the medal, the new one, I do not like it. I think it's the color of the medal.The ribom is fine, it's the flag colors and each one has it's meaning as all the colors form flags,etc, but the golden medal... Well "we don't argue tastes!"(sounds better in portuguese).
And I think that the iron cross would be a better that this new medal, and with the same eagle simbol of the new one in the middle and some words of valor or one date, the 1813 or other that have significance to the german!
Another off-topic, I also don't like the portuguese medal of valor, it's also something that it's doesn't fit right with our history!
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