Invincible DD

[doulos05]

I encountered this little bug yesterday while trying to infiltrate Manila for some photos. While moving in, a Shiratuysu (horribly misspelled, I know), starts coming at me. He's on his patrol route, and he's going to pass about 900 yards to my starboard. Well, I plan on sinking the carrier I'm supposed to photograph (more on that in a minute), so I figure I'll pull the plug on him and send him to the bottom. Set the running depth for 1 foot less than his draft on the first torpedo and shallow as she'll go on the second one. Flood both tubes and turn so I'll have a near-perfect angle at 600 yards.

Fire 1! Solid hit 30 seconds later. He slows from 12 knots to 8 but no fires, no listing, no evidence of damage. I lower my scope and pop over to external to inspect the damage. His port screw has stopped (wait, I fired from his starboard side. Well, maybe the keel shot hit that engine room), but no other damage and no sign that he's listing or settling, even after 30 seconds. Well, my battery is at 20%, so I can't have a crippled DD holding up my surfacing.

Fire 2! Solid hit, I positioned this one well forward, under the number 1 turret. Solid hit, running fairly shallow. I observed through the scope, same thing. No listing, no settling, no evidence he's been hit other than he comes to a dead stop. :o I thought engine rooms were positioned aft on most ships. Same routine, external view, checking for damage. No holes, no listing, no settling, even after about 30 seconds. Well, since he's dead in the water, I turn around and start moving away. I figure, I've got to kill this guy, I've got 2 fish in him already. So, Fire tube 5!

Solid hit, this one was fired at the number 3 turret, just forward of the depth charge racks. This one starts a fire, but same thing. No sinking, no settling, no listing, no holes. The only evidence that he's been hit is the fire on his number 3 turret and he's at a dead stop. I continued my patrol in. Crippled a Fubuki DD (hit him just forward of the number 1 turret in a bow-on shot), but didn't sink him either (he had about a 4 or 5 foot bow trim, but the DC teams contained the flooding).

I ran into a submarine net (actually a ship net, as you couldn't even sail over it surfaced), so I beached myself on it and fired 2 fish at the Taiyo carrier I was supposed to photograph. 2 Solid hits, 1 a keel shot, no serious damage. I sent a 3rd, same thing.

I'm running the infiltration again, I can't abide shooting 3 DDs, a CV, and a Seaplane tender and only sinking a single DD. But has anyone experienced unsinkable ships? I'm running NSM 4, could that be the source of the problem? Also, just to be sure, I have duds turned off.

[Rockin Robbins]

There is a problem with the nose end of DDs being way too tough in the stock game. NSM didn't do anything to fix that. The wizards* at RFB are mixing up new ship damage profiles for all surface ships, which will fix the problem.

In the meantime with down the throat shots you should assume that you won't stop the DD even with a hit. If he does sink from it, it will take some time. Most of the time he will charge out of the scene of battle to repair after you sting him, but only after he completes this last depth charge run! This is why I like the "up the poop chute" shot to the more poorly defended zones of the target.:arrgh!:

*Romanian word meaning "troublemakers" http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/RockinRobbins13/smileys/hilariouslaughing.gif

[doulos05]

True, but what about the one that I hit first amid-ship (just aft of the superstructure), the forward near the number 1 turret, and finally aft between the number 3 turret and the depth charge racks. That guy never took on water, he just quick working. It's almost as if the shock from the torpedos managed to incapacitate the crew without rupturing a single bulkhead (with the exception of the small fire started near the number 3 turret after my 3rd shot). When I passed him again on my way out of the bay, he was still floating, dead in the water, with the number 3 turret ablaze, but he hadn't taken on a drop of water. So, you recommend aiming at the after portion of DDs?

Taking a hint from one of the SHIII threads I read, I've been doing my best to aim at the bow (number 1 turret for warships, just behind the forecastle for merchants), hoping they'll drive themselves into the ocean. So far, I've been fairly successful but last night just... no joy at all.

The one DD I did sink took one torpedo amidship and another under the number 3 turret). The second shot must have hit something critical, I got "Ship Destroyed" almost instantly. Based on the positioning of the impact and the absence of a large explosion or fire, I believe the torpedo probably flooded either the boilers or engine room, since it did not detonate the magazine. Also, that ship did not show signs of listing or settling, nor did its crew show signs of abandoning ship. Yet when I surfaced he did not engage me (confirming my belief in what had been wrecked, as destroying either of those two things would have cut power to the ship). Of course, I don't know if the game actually simulates it like that.... But it's nice to relate my engagements to period action reports.

[Rockin Robbins]

Hmmmm. Sounds like some experiences of mine. I think the DDs are too stout. After all they're made flimsy for speed and full of stuff that goes boom. I figure one hit just about anywhere on a DD should be almost instant curtains. My money is on the RFB crew to sort that out.

I like the strategy of hitting near the bow to have the DD drive itself under.

[SteamWake]

I hit a DD during a harbor raid the other night... Right amidships... She sulked off with a noticable port list at around 6 knots on a slowly veering course, busted rudder I assumed.

I just let her go and decided to sink a few ships at anchor. A few hours later the DD returned :doh: still listing, and now she was pinging :rotfl:

Took two more shots at her and of course missed as seemingly now she can jump to flank for short periods of time and now has a fully functioning rudder. Those were my last torps and no way Im going to try to take her on the surface.

We escaped easily.

Do they 'repair' themselves somehow?

[Lexandro]

I had exactly the same thing as the OP in the Manilla harbour. I believe all photo mission boats in harbours are indestructable. The reason I think is so that they dont get destroyed by AI units before you can get a picture of it. And the anti-shipping nets were SOP in large harbours to stop sub infiltration. In RL they were usually attended by a tug which towed open the net for shipping to pass through.

And Steamwake; Yes I think they ships gets damage control teams. Many boats I have hit have later stopped taking on water or have started up moving again from a dead stop.

[Quillan]

Hmm. A problem back in SH3 was that occasionally a DD would collide with your scope or conning tower, with the result being some damage to your U-boat and a DD that sank. I wonder if the devs beefed up the nose end of the DDs as a solution to this problem.

[Lexandro]

Well to be fair in RL you could take the entire bows off a ship and it could still steam around happily and not sink. Thats what water tight compartments were for. In fact I have seen myself a ship under construction being floated down the river in two seperate parts for welding together at another yard.

[Webster]

the bow of DD are empty as far as the game is concerned, you can hit it as many times as you want without doing any damage to it.

the first damage zone is under the first gun so you must get to it to do damage.

this is why i made my torpedo mod, it will give just enough extra power to reach the first damage zone. using my mod you wont notice much difference overall but it will stop the indestructable bow issue.

as for the other ships its the NSM mod, it makes ships hulls stronger and they sink slow, very slow, and because of that they can stop flooding with damage controls so you may or may not have seen the ships you hit sink if you waited around several hours.

the propeller thing was probably due to missing damage zones on many ships in the game. the side of the ship you were on probably had a missing damage zone for that propeller so instead of both being damaged as it should, only one of them was.

i think combining my torpedo mod with MSM is a good result, give it a try.

[Diopos]

As to the "bow attack-sink by own inertia" there are exceptions:
http://uboat.net/allies/warships/ship/4674.html
Note that after hiting the mine, near Kalymnos and fast repairs at near by Turkish port, it made the trip to Alexandria "bowless"! :o

Sure was a moral booster for the Allied fleet in the East Med, at the time!:yep:

[Lakel]

well all the DDs ive hit on the bow with these mods
mods: NSM4 and Torps X2, possibly webster's its been so long i forget
so im not sure if its nsm4 or that i have the torp damage X2

have always ended up like this one

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa60/SenileoldMan/Screenshot_7-8.jpg

[Task Force]

Ya know I realy havent had that issue.:-? Usualy turn belly up in one hit.:yep:

[Sledgehammer427]

mich auch,

i've had one ram me (RFB, RSRDC, and PE3) and just start listing, and moving away at six knots....:damn:

[Seminole]

But has anyone experienced unsinkable ships?

:lol: ....yep....you ain't alone...

Just a couple of days ago:

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm36/Seminole_05/SH4Img2008-10-07_061611_110.jpg


She was dead in the water and down by the bow. I moved off and watched on radar, out of detection range. For three full days she hung there on the surface surrounded by a flotilla of destroyers, mad as all get out.

I tried time after time to sneak back into range to finish her off. No matter how deep I went or how silent I approached, as soon as I came above a thermal they were on to me. Even tried a desperation long range spread shot from 98 feet down but no luck.

After 3 days all the ships disappearred from the map..I believe the carrier finally did sink and then the escorts cleared the area..but I got no credit for the fleet carrier in any case. :x

The only consolation was that I hit and sunk a heavy cruiser accidently with the missed torpedos.

So yes..some ships are "unsinkable." at least from a credit POV.

[Lakel]

had one of those, only a merchant which is crazy but....
this thing took 1 torpedo + 30 HE shells still didnt go down till 10hours later i got tired of waiting and just hit it with another torp
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa60/SenileoldMan/Screenshot_7-10.jpg

[doulos05]

I had exactly the same thing as the OP in the Manilla harbour. I believe all photo mission boats in harbours are indestructable. The reason I think is so that they dont get destroyed by AI units before you can get a picture of it. And the anti-shipping nets were SOP in large harbours to stop sub infiltration. In RL they were usually attended by a tug which towed open the net for shipping to pass through.

And Steamwake; Yes I think they ships gets damage control teams. Many boats I have hit have later stopped taking on water or have started up moving again from a dead stop.

Well, I was able to sink a Chitoise Seaplane tender, so I don't think they're indestructible. I think the problem with the carrier was that I couldn't fire deep enough without hitting the anti-shipping net. All the hits were on her armor belt. And while the Japanese did have some problems with hits near armor belts ruining a ship's day, this carrier didn't have that problem. I finally managed to get a successful run on the harbor. I sank 2 DDs and the seaplane tender. One DD with a bow-on shot, the other with a beautiful side shot. I aimed the second at the number 1 turret, knowing he'd speed up when he saw the wake. Took him right under the second smokestack. He struggled for a while before he finally settled on a basically even keel.

Later, I intercepted a Huge European Liner (booking it at 17 knots, is that standard for those? I'd never seen one before). He took 3 torpedos and about 100 deck gun rounds. Third torpedo is what did it, caught him deep in the stern. The first two didn't even cause a list or a bow or stern trim!

[Task Force]

had one of those, only a merchant which is crazy but....
this thing took 1 torpedo + 30 HE shells still didnt go down till 10hours later i got tired of waiting and just hit it with another torp
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa60/SenileoldMan/Screenshot_7-10.jpg
Now Ive has this issue before, Those unsinkabel merchents, One torp and 63HE shells didnt make it sink.:huh:

[Webster]

Well, I was able to sink a Chitoise Seaplane tender, so I don't think they're indestructible.

through much testing i discovered the chitoise seaplane tender (its one of the toughest out there) was equal to a battleship as far as the amount of damage needed to sink it. some ships in the game need an unusuall amount of damage to sink and others sink like a rock with only one torpedo. for the amount of torps needed it better to let it go and do without those renown points.

try my torpedo test missions to see for yourself what it takes to sink certain ships