Sticker Shock

[Frame57]

Wow! I had my Gall Bladder removed recently. Spent a total of three days in the hospital. When all was said and done, the bills totaled close to 85,000 dollars. The surgeon and anesthesiology part totalled about 3200 dollars total. The rest was the hospitals part. I can see why people can find themselves in dire straights. I figured that tops this was going to be 25 grand. Well, there goes my Viper until next year. Seriously, this is just ridiculous. I wonder if it is this expensive in other Countries?

[clive bradbury]

It's free here. Many Americans love to critiscise the NHS. That's fine, just keep paying your bills...

[DeepIron]

It's free here. Many Americans love to critiscise the NHS. That's fine, just keep paying your bills...Hey Clive and Mikhayl... I'm not trying to be facetious, I'm really curious... Seeing as no such thing as a "free lunch" your NHS must be funded from somewhere...

The most common kind of national funding is taxes. What kind of tax rate do you folks have? Or does the money come from somewhere else? :hmm:

[clive bradbury]

Hi Deepiron,

in theory from so-called 'national insurance', which is really just an income tax by another name, in that it is a mandatory stoppage, but this does not cover it all, so mostly from income tax. Not sure, but stoppages are roughly the same percentage here as in the US, I think, maybe slightly less as our equivalent of your state taxes are not quite as high.

[Frame57]

I am thankful I was able to cover cost and have insurance too. a Canadian friend of mine told me that in Canada it gets worse the older you are. Lets say at about 45 years of age you find yourself in need of a coronary bypass, they will do it, but if you are 75, then you may be denied and will have to pay 100%. I guess they feel that the 45 year old will still be contributing to the economy as opposed the the 75 year old. The over costs are crazy and i guess much of it deals with malpractice insurance and to cover the costs of those who do not pay and have no insurance. Yep, no free lunches, the money has to come from somewhere.

[DeepIron]

Ah... thx Clive. I looked up "national insurance" in the wikipedia and read through it. For the most part, it sounds like a good system...

I had my appendix out 3 years ago to the tune of $10,500, all out my pocket because my health insurance carrier wouldn't pay (I'll spare everyone THAT story).

I've often wondered why the US, with one of the strongest economies around (until lately) didn't implement a system like that in Britain... :hmm:

The over costs are crazy and i guess much of it deals with malpractice insurance and to cover the costs of those who do not pay and have no insurance. Yep, no free lunches, the money has to come from somewhere.Not to mention the terribly inflated prices of materials... I mean really, $2.50 a pill for Tylenol? etc...

[Tchocky]

Similiar-ish here.
If you're on low income or over 70, or receiving welfare, you have a medical card, which means you don't pay medical bills. Doctor visits, drugs, hospital visits, everything free except dental care.
If you're above that threshold, you pay 66 euro per day of hospital stay, no more than 660 in a single year. The care received is free, you're paying for the space you take up, in a sense. Medication costs are your own responsibility, up to 90 per month, after that you qualify for funds.
Private health insurance covers about half the population, usual costs between 5-900 per year, with another third on the medical card.

Healthcare is improving after a log period of underinvestment and stagnation. Think were about halfway down the EU league table.

[clive bradbury]

Note that not everything is free on the NHS, though. You have to pay for prescriptions (although this is soon to change for patients with long-term illnesses), and a proportion towards dental care.

Obviously it is not perfect, as waiting lists can be long, especially for non-urgent cases. Support for serious conditions like cancer, though, is pretty rapid.

Of course for non-urgent stuff there is the private care option. There is also a rather dodgy word-around waiting lists, too. If you pay for a private initial consultation with a surgeon (most do both private and NHS work), which costs about £200, he will then do your operation on the NHS (for free), but bump you up his waiting list. Usually saves you several months of waiting for the sake of £200, which sounds pretty good to me, if a mite corrupt.

[kranz]

in Poland it could be either free of charge or cost you life. Depends on the surgeon.

[Hylander_1314]

Wow! I had my Gall Bladder removed recently. Spent a total of three days in the hospital. When all was said and done, the bills totaled close to 85,000 dollars. The surgeon and anesthesiology part totalled about 3200 dollars total. The rest was the hospitals part. I can see why people can find themselves in dire straights. I figured that tops this was going to be 25 grand. Well, there goes my Viper until next year. Seriously, this is just ridiculous. I wonder if it is this expensive in other Countries?

Well, that's the main reason most Americans are bankrupt, or in finacial straits. The medical industry. But if you aren't an American Citizen, with no ID, or even speak the language, you can get your medical for free, since the hospitals and clinics can't refuse service by Federal Law. And that's why the medical costs are through the roof. Somebody has to pay for the freebees, and it's the good hardworking citizens that get stuck holding the bill. As usual again.

[Thomen]

Wow! I had my Gall Bladder removed recently. Spent a total of three days in the hospital. When all was said and done, the bills totaled close to 85,000 dollars. The surgeon and anesthesiology part totalled about 3200 dollars total. The rest was the hospitals part. I can see why people can find themselves in dire straights. I figured that tops this was going to be 25 grand. Well, there goes my Viper until next year. Seriously, this is just ridiculous. I wonder if it is this expensive in other Countries?

I am there with you. My Wife had a heart attack 2 years ago, and the overall bill for 2 days hospital and the stent implant was around 60k, including MedEvac, Doctors, Nurses and so on.

[UnderseaLcpl]

I'll stick with my company healthcare plan. $140 a month, $15 copay, price stays the same for an whether I get married or not, and no matter how many kids I might have.

Let's see the government top that!:cool:


It's pretty well-known that countries with socialized healthcare don't have the same quality that the U.S. does. Of course, the U.S. spends more on healthcare as a percentage of GNP than other countries do, but a large part of that is the state's fault. About $700 billion a year just for Medicare, Medicaid, and the related administrative and implementation costs.

That's not even counting how excessive "fairness" regulations on insurance companies drive up the costs. Many of those exsist only at the state level, but the Feds do their share. Things like mandatory enrollment of at-risk persons, price controls, policy restrictions and taxation all drive the costs up.

We wouldn't want the government involved in healthcare for the same reason they shouldn't be involved in the retirement system.
If the government were to step in and control the healthcare system, you can bet that in a few years it would end up looking like the social security system.

I wouldn't support mandatory health insurance either. For one thing, it will inevitably lead to the state controlling the healthcare system, and for another, it's none of their damn business.


We're not getting a lot for our 2 trillion dollar health and welfare budget right now, and I doubt we would do much better with a state system that would probably cost at least 3 times that much.


edit- I almost forgot, I hope you're doing well now Frame

[DeepIron]

Well, that's the main reason most Americans are bankrupt, or in financial straits. The medical industry. But if you aren't an American Citizen, with no ID, or even speak the language, you can get your medical for free, since the hospitals and clinics can't refuse service by Federal Law. And that's why the medical costs are through the roof. Somebody has to pay for the freebies, and it's the good hardworking citizens that get stuck holding the bill. As usual again.I totally agree... We're so involved with helping the "poor, huddled masses" illegally crossing our borders that we're putting Mr. and Mrs. Middle Class in the poor house themselves. And the ironic thing is that when that happens, we can't qualify for the same assistance and help the illegals get...:nope:

My wife and I have "living wills" due to the inconvenient fact that health care is so expensive... There's no way I'll have my wife saddled with the health care costs I'd incur... Even heart surgery, which has become common practice can wipe out a lifetime of savings... :nope:

It's pretty well-known that countries with socialized health care don't have the same quality that the U.S. does.Ah, ah, ahhh... I'd be careful with statement. There's plenty of sub-quality health care to go around the good 'ol US my friend...

[Tchocky]

Methinks the illegal chunk of the pie has a somewhat disproportionate press.

http://www.workpermit.com/news/2006-12-15/us/illegal_immigrants_not_burden_health_care.htm

Obviously, it's easier to blame shiftless immigrants instead of looking at structural reform.

This data is several years old. has there been any major changes in the immigration landscape recently?

[DeepIron]

Actually Tchocky... it's not just a "placing blame" issue IMO. Over the last few years I've read numerous articles about hospitals and health care facilities that are have trouble keeping up their services with current population trends. It's happening in schools, and other public service entities as well and the biggest factor cited is the incredible influx of undocumented workers (to be PC about it). I don't blame just them, I also hold to account the employers who exploit these people, pay less than minimum wages and escape paying the taxes and other fees like Social Security that the rest of us have to pay. The tax base is being eroded while the need for services, especially health care is increasing...

[jpm1]

and if in the US if you you need an emergency hospitalisation and you can afford the fees what happens you die :hmm:

[CCIP]

and if in the US if you you need an emergency hospitalisation and you can afford the fees what happens you die :hmm:
Not at all. That's one of the problems with the system and one of the reasons that the costs are so high. There's a lot of people abusing the system - the ERs can't do a "wallet biopsy" on patients, and hospitals only have limited ability to go after those who do not pay bills. It's one thing about people who can't afford it, but there's also the systemic issue of people abusing the hospitals by going to emergency, instead of a primary care doctor, and then never paying. But hospitals do not throw out emergency patients, with the occasional exception of those known to be chronic ER abusers.

That's part of why people like Frame pay that much, it's often a tricky dance for hospitals to stay profitable. It's a well-known 'secret' that not all patients in US hospitals end up paying, and often it's the honest patients that end up having to pick up the tab. I sure don't envy that bill - hope you're doing alright at least!

I'm glad for the way I got treated this year here in Canada - can't imagine how much my busted elbow would've cost me in the states. I didn't pay anything except physio (which ran close to $1000), and my student insurance covered that and even threw an $300 'bonus' for just the injury itself.

BUT there are major issues in national systems like this. Canada, for instance, is notorious for its shortage of doctors and the incredible waiting periods. You could be waiting months or years for critical procedures and tests like MRIs (say, if you need a diagnosis for possible cancer), so while primary care access here is generally quite good and you'll get good emergency treatment for free, good luck if you have a real serious illness like cancer with which the system isn't quite well-adapted to cope. Things are also not equal everywhere - I was told that I got lucky that I went to emergency at a hospital in the capital instead of closer to where I lived, across the river in Quebec. While I got my surgery just over a day after breaking my arm, I was told that I could also have ended up on a months-long waiting list over on the Quebec side, where the hospitals were short on resources.

[Onkel Neal]

It's free here. Many Americans love to critiscise the NHS. That's fine, just keep paying your bills...

Nothing is free. You're paying for it, one way or another.

[Blacklight]

When I was in the hospital for my heart sugury, I got whopped with an almost $10,000 bill including two ambulence rides. I WISH that bill had been 3200 dollars !! It took me FOREVER and pretty much bankrupted me to pay that thing off. And then three years after that, I had to go back in for more heart surgury ! :stare:

[August]

Last year 70k for the installation of two stents in my right coronary artery and two nights in the hospital for observation/recovery. I paid 1k deductible, insurance paid the rest. They've also been paying 80% of my related medications.

[Molon Labe]

The cost is clearly a problem and something has to be done about it.

Both candidates have websites.

Both candidates explain their health care plan on their websites.

Both candidates mention that costs are a problem.

One candidate's plan includes elements intended to reduce costs; the other's does not and instead talks about ways to transfer the costs to the taxpayer.

This election should be Easymode.