Russians Went Blind Into Georgia

[SUBMAN1]

Russians Went Blind Into Georgia
by James Dunnigan (http://jimdunnigan.com/)
October 3, 2008



More information is coming out of Russia describing the problems troops encountered when they invaded Georgia last month. It turns out that the Russians lost eight aircraft (four Su-25s, two Su-24s, one Tu-22 and one Mi-24 helicopter.) The Russian pilots were not prepared to deal with the three batteries of SA-11 anti-aircraft missile systems the Georgians had bought from Ukraine last year. There is now more work being done on countermeasures, and training pilots to cope.

Another unanticipated problem was the unreliability of the Russian navigation satellites. Russia's answer to GPS, GLONASS, was at full strength (24 satellites) shortly after the Cold War ended (1995). But the end of the Cold War meant the end of the regular financing for GLONASS. Maintaining the system meant launching replacement satellites every 5-7 years. By the end of 2002, only seven GLONASS birds were still operational. However, a series of launches in 2003 increased the number of active satellites to twelve, and that went to 18 by the end of 2007. Russia plans to put eight more GLONASS satellites in orbit this year. That would expand the system to 24 navigation satellites. Russia plans to have the system fully operational next year. Right now, it is active for most of Russia, but not, it turned out, in Georgia. Aircraft and ground forces got lost, and that led to more losses. The GLONASS problems also prevented use of Russian smart bombs with much effectiveness. The government is already planning to replace the current GLONASS satellites with 30 second generation birds by 2011.http://www.strategypage.com/dls/articles/200810314313.asp

[Task Force]

Boy you sure are a fast poster, you just posted that last topic.:lol:

[CCIP]

Blind? Maybe an overstatement. Unprepared? Typical.

I find it a lot more disturbing, myself, that after a few weeks of denying it, the Russian officials acknowledge in September that conscript troops were involved in fighting in the region. The good old doctrine of using "free" manpower as cannon fodder is alive and well in the current regime.

[nikimcbee]

Blind? Maybe an overstatement. Unprepared? Typical.

I find it a lot more disturbing, myself, that after a few weeks of denying it, the Russian officials acknowledge in September that conscript troops were involved in fighting in the region. The good old doctrine of using "free" manpower as cannon fodder is alive and well in the current regime.

That must have been a rude surprise. I don't think their air force has really been tested in modern combat. (unless they were flying in the middle east or Vietnam)

I think they've mainly flown un-apposed. I was afraid when Russia was knee deep in Chechnya, I was going to loose some of my friends in Chechnya. Fortunately he got out of Russia. ( He was in the national guard)

[XabbaRus]

Why I'm not disputing that Russian forces were lacking in the ECM and SEAD area which they have acknowledged I'm trying to find on the net other articles to backup the 8 aircraft claim. All that seems to be coming up is 4, 3 Su-25s and 1 Tu-22.

Saying that for a strategypage article it isn't too bad but I wouldn't use them as a first source. Usually they are riddled with spelling errors at the least and downright wrong info at the best.

However the plus side is a little shock like this I thinhk has got the Russians looking to get more SEAD type and ECM kit.

[Skybird]

Both Russian and Georgian forces had held major manouvers short before the Georgian attack. Nevertheless the "peacekeeper contingent" that came under attack first, got no assistance for over one day and a night, and could just take cover and hunker down. there situation was desperate. So, russian forces were in the region amassed, due top that manouvers, but they got surpised by the sudden attack nevertheless. Their reaction time and advance through that tunnel has been described as chaotic, and they took high losses, it was said one batallion, although the strategic importance of the tunnel was known. If they would have been prepared, they would have made preparations for that tunnel manouver in advance.

Instead of caring for the autocratic regime in Georgia, europe should concentrate on the economic troubles, and look to strengthen relation between states that are neighbours here. for Germany, france and Poland and the Czechs, the Dutch and the Danes are a million times more important than this far away tiny little place in the Caucasean region that tried nothing else than to blackmail Europe. and so it is with all other european nations as well. And if this place ever would become NATO country, it would mean that sooner or later the NATO council would meet in Tiflis, some dozehn kiolometers away from russian borders. That compares to the Warshaw Pact holding a general meeting in Port-au-Prince on Haiti. And we all know that America would never have accepted that monumental provocation without reacting to it. But the russians are expected to do so? Oh this great western arrogance. a provocation for itself - is no value of any worth. It just is stupid, and - well, arrogant. That's all provocations that are just for themselves display.

We have far more vital homework to do than to help getting ourselves entangled in major confrontations with the Russians that are not needed and give us nothing oin return. Forget Georgia and Ukraine and Crimean and NATO. Has anybody noticed, that the Russians have meanwhile effectively blocked any SC meetings on Iran? How many more warning shots do you need before you realise what time the clock is ticking? Ayone here wanting to get thrown into a full scale war between Ukraine and Russia over the Crimean? That is a very realistic scenario. anyone interested to get involved in that? Any nation who can AFFORD that? The world is not America, and it must not be completely modelled to Washington's liking. Leave to the Russian sphere what is of the russian sphere, and start worrying for for the things that are REALLY important.