Joe Biden - A closer look

[Digital_Trucker]

Since Sarah has her own thread, I thought I'd start one for good old Joe:up:

I love it when Joe opens his mouth:rotfl:

Read all about how Joe's helicopter was "forced down" on the "superhighway of terrorism"

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,431604,00.html

Laugh if you want at it being FoxNews, quotes are still quotes and facts are still facts.

[Skybird]

FOX and facts:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=138918&highlight=journalism

not commenting much on the helicopter story, just saying on that part that accidents are part of military operation, and even more so when operating under wartime conditions - and to exclude that risk or talking it nice because it involves no active enemy fire, is absurd. I think 28 Germans have been killed in Afghanistan so far - the majority of them NOT by enemy fire. And allied helicopters repeatedly crashed in both Afghanistan and Iraq, also having caused loss of life.

Flying around in Afghanistan IS a dangerous thing. Wether one must use flowery language to describe that, is something different. But there are worse things. not knowng the difference between experience in foreign politics, and having a foreign land in sight on the horizon on a clear day, for example.

[Digital_Trucker]

In a Baltimore speech last week, Biden said: "If you want to know where Al Qaeda lives, you want to know where (Usama) bin Laden is, come back to Afghanistan with me. Come back to the area where my helicopter was forced down with a three-star general and three senators at 10,500 feet in the middle of those mountains. I can tell you where they are."
I don't believe that the wonderful mister Biden was commenting on the dangers of flying in Afghanistan. I think it's quite obvious that he was distorting the truth to match his point.

Did you even read the article, Sky? Or just not comprehend it?

[August]

In a Baltimore speech last week, Biden said: "If you want to know where Al Qaeda lives, you want to know where (Usama) bin Laden is, come back to Afghanistan with me. Come back to the area where my helicopter was forced down with a three-star general and three senators at 10,500 feet in the middle of those mountains. I can tell you where they are."
I don't believe that the wonderful mister Biden was commenting on the dangers of flying in Afghanistan. I think it's quite obvious that he was distorting the truth to match his point.

Did you even read the article, Sky? Or just not comprehend it?

He's waiting for a Speigel article to tell him how to react would be my guess DT.

[Hylander_1314]

The terrible thing is, how many people will be fooled by his blatherring. I'll say what ever I have to, to get the election. I think Bozo the Clown could do better.:nope: Heck even I could do better than that, but the media would blast me as a joke, since I would be pushing for strong adherence to the Constitution, and "not" as it's interpretted either.

[AVGWarhawk]

"It is your patriotic duty" Joe Biden talking of paying higher taxes for those that gross $250,000.00 year.

You will be cutting your check when Joe?

[Digital_Trucker]

@August :rotfl:

Biden "shot at" : http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/biden-revises-claim-he-was-shot-at-in-iraq-2007-08-08.html

History lesson for Joe : http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080923/ap_on_el_pr/biden_mistaken_history

Brigades and batallions : http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/09/biden-again-mis.html

Clouding Obamas message ; http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/stumper/archive/2008/09/23/biden-turns-on-the-gaffe-machine.aspx

Doesn't think much of himself : http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/09/biden-hillary-a.html



And this guy could be a "heartbeat away" from being President.:rotfl:

[Digital_Trucker]

"It is your patriotic duty" Joe Biden talking of paying higher taxes for those that gross $250,000.00 year.

You will be cutting your check when Joe?
He's never cut much of a check in the past according to his tax returns. I'd have to go back and find the link, but, IIRC, he gives about $300 a year to charity. Doesn't sound very patriotic to me.

[AVGWarhawk]

Over in the Palin thread I said McCain would probably not like Ifill as a debate moderator....here it is today:

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1008/14207.html


The cards would be stacked in Joes favor it this women is allowed to moderate. :yep: Then again, Joe needs all the help he can get just as well as Palin:up:

[SteamWake]

It woldent supprise me at all if Biden goes down in a sputtering, floundering, ponderous defeat after which he re-cuses himself as a VP candidate opening the door for Hillary to step in.

All un-intentional of course. ;)

[nikimcbee]

Wasn't he the one that first said of obama:" The first clean and articulate black man." I'm pretty sure it was, and i have more pressing things to research.

[Sailor Steve]

...I would be pushing for strong adherence to the Constitution, and "not" as it's interpretted either.
An interesting but very modern and slightly concieted concept, considering that the two men most responsible for its existence in the first place had running arguments over their very different 'interpretations'.

[AVGWarhawk]

It woldent supprise me at all if Biden goes down in a sputtering, floundering, ponderous defeat after which he re-cuses himself as a VP candidate opening the door for Hillary to step in.

All un-intentional of course. ;)

It is his Patriotic duty!!!! Sir!!!

[SteamWake]

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh312/UlteriorModem/constitution.jpg

[Digital_Trucker]

Wasn't he the one that first said of obama:" The first clean and articulate black man." I'm pretty sure it was, and i have more pressing things to research.

Yep, he would be the one. Maybe not those exact words, but something along those lines.

[Hylander_1314]

...I would be pushing for strong adherence to the Constitution, and "not" as it's interpretted either.
An interesting but very modern and slightly concieted concept, considering that the two men most responsible for its existence in the first place had running arguments over their very different 'interpretations'.

I see your point. It does sound like that, although not meant to. I was re-reading an article in one of my New American publications, about our Constitutional Anchor. And it gets me fired up everytime I read it. The preamble of the article goes, "Our priceless Constitution secures our God-given rights by keeping America safely anchored within the rule of law. We must not drift from it's timeless principles".

A little further down in the article, "More than two centuries have passed since the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution were drafted, and over that time we have gone from a horse-and-buggy era to the spaceshuttle. But changing times do not change timeless truthes, no matter how great our technological achievements or how "enlightened" our times."

And as Hamilton put it in the Federalist #78, "No legislative act ... contrary to the Constitution can be valid. To deny this would be to affirm that the deputy is greater than his principal; that the servant is above the master; that the representatives of the people are superior to the people themselves; that men acting by virtue of powers may do not only what their powers do not authorize, but what they forbid."

Like I said, a very good article, with good quotes from Hamilton, Madison, and Jefferson. So if I sounded out of line, my apologies. I should have remembered as Jefferson said, "Confidence is everywhere the parent of despotism... In questions of power then let no more be heard of confidence in man". There's more, but I'm sure you know it as it's from the Kentucky resolutions.

[Stealth Hunter]

Since Sarah has her own thread, I thought I'd start one for good old Joe:up:

I love it when Joe opens his mouth:rotfl:

Read all about how Joe's helicopter was "forced down" on the "superhighway of terrorism"

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,431604,00.html

Laugh if you want at it being FoxNews, quotes are still quotes and facts are still facts.

Funny thing about FOX:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84er11W9rU4

Two funny things, actually:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gh6r5ALVMo

[Sailor Steve]

I see your point. It does sound like that, although not meant to. I was re-reading an article in one of my New American publications, about our Constitutional Anchor...Like I said, a very good article...
It sounds like it.

So if I sounded out of line, my apologies...
No need to apologize to me; we all know how I like to argue. There are indeed people who believe the Constitution is open to interpretation. I'm not one of them, but still there are and always have been different interpretations of what something means. One man's "Judges legislating from the bench" is another man's "Ninth Amendment protections". Hamilton believed he had the right to set up a National Bank. Madison thought that was a travesty of limited government. Jefferson thought Hamilton exceeded his authority by taking his proposals directly to congress rather than submitting his proposals to his boss, the president. Washington agreed in principle, but liked Hamilton's ideas and looked the other way. Who was right? It all depends on your interpretation.

When President Jefferson was negotiating with Napoleon to buy all the French holdings east of the Mississippi for $12 million, Napoleon suddenly found himself unable to defend the territory west of the Big River from the British, and offered it to the US for an extra $3 million - $15 million total. Jefferson grabbed at the idea, but recognized that the Constitution did not give the Federal Government the authority to buy foreign lands. He felt that a new Amendment was needed and told his Secretary of State to ask congress for one. Madison replied that by that time the Dutch harbors might be free of Ice, the French army could move and Napoleon could easily change his mind. And if that didn't happen, they could end up staring at a new British presence to the west, occupying the entire continent. He then informed his boss that other countries could buy land, and we assumed that we could take land by force in time of war, so why couldn't we buy land when it was offered. He said "Let's do this: tell congress to appropriate the money, and if they don't like it they can object. We can make an amendment after the fact." As it turned out, even the staunchest Federalists and Jefferson-haters all thought it was a great idea and gave Jefferson the money post-haste.

So the "Father of the Constitution" interpreted it his own way, gave his boss new powers the document did not grant the President, and changed the rules on his own recognizance. And today people who don't know anything criticize Jefferson for preaching smaller government while doubling the size of the country. They also don't notice that he didn't double the size of the government, just the land area.

[Sailor Steve]

Oops. I got so excited I forgot this was a thread about Biden. Sorry.

I don't have a TV (at least not one that's good for anything but a DVD connection) so I have to wait to see the debates on YouTube.

[CCIP]

The BBC's "Most Emailed" stories bar describes the outcome of the debate pretty accurately, I thought:

Biden and Palin clash in debate
US superpower status is shaken
Snake bursts after gobbling gator
:hmm:

[Sailor Steve]

Man, that last one deserves its own thread! What are the political ramifications? Financial? Does that mean the end of life as we know it? Or just of civilization? Science? Religion?

Is the gator okay?

[August]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2096370/posts

JOE BIDEN’S 14 LIES FROM THE DEBATE

1. TAX VOTE: Biden said McCain voted “the exact same way” as Obama to increase taxes on Americans earning just $42,000, but McCain DID NOT VOTE THAT WAY.

2. AHMEDINIJAD MEETING: Joe Biden lied when he said that Barack Obama never said that he would sit down unconditionally with Mahmoud Ahmedinijad of Iran. Barack Obama did say specifically, and Joe Biden attacked him for it.

3. OFFSHORE OIL DRILLING: Biden said, “Drill we must.” But Biden has opposed offshore drilling and even compared offshore drilling to “raping” the Outer Continental Shelf.”

4. TROOP FUNDING: Joe Biden lied when he indicated that John McCain and Barack Obama voted the same way against funding the troops in the field. John McCain opposed a bill that included a timeline, that the President of the United States had already said he would veto regardless of it’s passage.

5. OPPOSING CLEAN COAL: Biden says he’s always been for clean coal, but he just told a voter that he is against clean coal and any new coal plants in America and has a record of voting against clean coal and coal in the U.S. Senate.

6. ALERNATIVE ENERGY VOTES: According to FactCheck.org, Biden is exaggerating and overstating John McCain’s record voting for alternative energy when he says he voted against it 23 times.

7. HEALTH INSURANCE: Biden falsely said McCain will raise taxes on people's health insurance coverage -- they get a tax credit to offset any tax hike. Independent fact checkers have confirmed this attack is false

8. OIL TAXES: Biden falsely said Palin supported a windfall profits tax in Alaska -- she reformed the state tax and revenue system, it's not a windfall profits tax.

9. AFGHANISTAN / GEN. MCKIERNAN COMMENTS: Biden said that top military commander in Iraq said the principles of the surge could not be applied to Afghanistan, but the commander of NATO's International Security Assistance Force Gen. David D. McKiernan said that there were principles of the surge strategy, including working with tribes, that could be applied in Afghanistan.

10. REGULATION: Biden falsely said McCain weakened regulation -- he actually called for more regulation on Fannie and Freddie.

11. IRAQ: When Joe Biden lied when he said that John McCain was “dead wrong on Iraq”, because Joe Biden shared the same vote to authorize the war and differed on the surge strategy where they John McCain has been proven right.

12. TAX INCREASES: Biden said Americans earning less than $250,000 wouldn’t see higher taxes, but the Obama-Biden tax plan would raise taxes on individuals making $200,000 or more.

13. BAILOUT: Biden said the economic rescue legislation matches the four principles that Obama laid out, but in reality it doesn’t meet two of the four principles that Obama outlined on Sept. 19, which were that it include an emergency economic stimulus package, and that it be part of “part of a globally coordinated effort with our partners in the G-20.”

14. REAGAN TAX RATES: Biden is wrong in saying that under Obama, Americans won't pay any more in taxes then they did under Reagan.

[Digital_Trucker]

Did anyone else catch his little statement about what he and Obama want to do regarding mortgages? Not only do they want to allow bankruptcy judges to be allowed to adjust interest rates on mortgages, they want them to be able to adjust the principal amount. That's gonna help the situation a lot, isn't it? You think mortgages are worthless now? Just wait until a bankruptcy judge can adjust that $300,000 amount owed on that house that you couldn't afford to begin with down to $100,000. Mortgage lenders will then have the same excuse that credit card companies use to jack interest rates up to who knows where.

Interesting piece on the relationships of the parties regarding deregulation and the current mess. http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/stories/2008/09/15/daily81.html