Silent Hunter 5 Announced?

[Scharnhorst1943]

I would like to see Destroyer Command 2 ... or maybe a sim that combines Destroyer Command with Fighting Steel?
Yes I'd love a DC2 as well but merged with "Task Force 1942" rather than "Fighting steel" which I thought had a terrible interface.

Well yes, I'll give you that. I guess I just got used to the interface. I did however like the way Fighting Steel set up engagements, and the fact that if you did a non-historical campaign, you got to see those big guns in action. I remember my USN campaign and having my one of my US battleships verse two or three IJN cruisers. Sometimes I won, sometimes I fought valiantly, but didn't make it ... good times.

Oh and I will say the soundtrack to Fighting Steel was PERFECT. Just the music made me think of battle-wagons rolling in rough sees during a battle. DC had a pretty good theme as well, IMO.

[Ship Hunter]

The German Magazine "GameStar" just posted some News on SH5 on their Site.

Here is the link http://gamestar.de/news/pc/action/simulation/1950272/silent_hunter_5.html

The news says that "Erdei Jacint" Ubisoft PR Manager of Ubisoft Romania said on an Interview about the Release of Brothers in Arms Hells Highway that Ubisoft will announce the 5th Part of a "famous Simulation Series" after the release of HAWX.

"Zum Release des Taktik-Shooters Brothers in Arms: Hell's Highway http://gamestar.de/img/gs/home/icon_link.gif (http://www.gamestar.de/spiele/action/43288/brothers_in_arms_hells_highway.html) in Rumänien führte die Webseite theGameCast ein Interview http://gamestar.de/img/gs/home/icon_link.gif (http://thegamecast.net/blog/world-exclusive-silent-hunter-5-semi-confirmat-la-lansarea-brothers-in-arms-hells-highway/) mit dem dortigen PR-Manager von Ubisoft (http://gamestar.de/news/pc/action/simulation/1950272/silent_hunter_5.html#), Erdei Jacint. Dieser erklärte, dass nach der Fertigstellung von H.A.W.X. http://gamestar.de/img/gs/home/icon_link.gif (http://www.gamestar.de/spiele/action/44373/tom_clancys_hawx.html) - entwickelt von Ubisoft Rumänien - ein fünfter Teil einer beliebten Simulationsreihe anstehe. Mehr könne er allerdings nicht sagen."

[Jimbuna]

The German Magazine "GameStar" just posted some News on SH5 on their Site.

Here is the link http://gamestar.de/news/pc/action/simulation/1950272/silent_hunter_5.html

The news says that "Erdei Jacint" Ubisoft PR Manager of Ubisoft Romania said on an Interview about the Release of Brothers in Arms Hells Highway that Ubisoft will announce the 5th Part of a "famous Simulation Series" after the release of HAWX.

"Zum Release des Taktik-Shooters Brothers in Arms: Hell's Highway http://gamestar.de/img/gs/home/icon_link.gif (http://www.gamestar.de/spiele/action/43288/brothers_in_arms_hells_highway.html) in Rumänien führte die Webseite theGameCast ein Interview http://gamestar.de/img/gs/home/icon_link.gif (http://thegamecast.net/blog/world-exclusive-silent-hunter-5-semi-confirmat-la-lansarea-brothers-in-arms-hells-highway/) mit dem dortigen PR-Manager von Ubisoft (http://gamestar.de/news/pc/action/simulation/1950272/silent_hunter_5.html#), Erdei Jacint. Dieser erklärte, dass nach der Fertigstellung von H.A.W.X. http://gamestar.de/img/gs/home/icon_link.gif (http://www.gamestar.de/spiele/action/44373/tom_clancys_hawx.html) - entwickelt von Ubisoft Rumänien - ein fünfter Teil einer beliebten Simulationsreihe anstehe. Mehr könne er allerdings nicht sagen."

They've probably just noticed the 2008 SS Meet threads http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/bubblegum2.gif

[Spike]

During a Brothers in Arms launch event in Romania theGameCast interviewed (http://thegamecast.net/blog/world-exclusive-silent-hunter-5-semi-confirmat-la-lansarea-brothers-in-arms-hells-highway/) Ubisoft Romania's PR who revealed that after completing Tom Clany's H.A.W.X. the studio is going to work on "the fifth part of a very popular Ubisoft series, a simulators one." Ubisoft Romania has previously worked on Silent Hunter 3 and 4, and being only simulator in their portfolio it is safe to assume a fifth installment in the submarine simulation franchise is coming. http://www.worthplaying.com/article.php?sid=56871

[TitaniumRR]

No. I. Let's view it in an objective way - What do we, most of us expect from the sequel of a subsim by UBISOFT regardless in which ages it is.

1) better visual experience, higher level of graphics closer to photorealism
2) Better game engine
3) More historically authentic battles, events, tools, persons etc.
4) Emotionally touching accomplishment of all above

If my list is incomplete, feel free to add more aspects.

No. II Let's view it in the software developer company's respect:

1) the better tangible interest and solvent market demand, the higher turnover and revenue. Target audience is mainly U.S., China and finally Western Europe.
2) Emotionally touching, passionate theme and accomplishment of battles

to be continued...

[GlobalExplorer]

TitaniumRR: Stop using these horrible colors they damage the eyes.

[Sledgehammer427]

awwww but the green is so pretty!

titanium, i agree with you.\, the compaines seem to drive in the direction of whatever the market wants, sure, subsimming has a big community, but compared to the 3 of us in my school that play SH...there is about 600% more people who play games like Halo 3 and WoW. its greusome...where are we supposed to get our fix?

[Rockin Robbins]

Yike, this thing is still going? I'da thought this thread would have died a well-deserved death weeks ago.

SH5 will be the resurrection of Pong played in 80x50 super-low res graphix only on a genuine Apple ///. Unfortunately, all the Apple ///s' power supplies and motherboards were defective and there are only about a dozen of them left in the world that will function. Please share. Enjoy!:up:

[gimpy117]

I would love to see a well done WWI mod on the SH4 engine.....

anyone? would be a nice supermod!

[TitaniumRR]

GlobalExplorer: Had I been you, I would have added 'Please' ;)
Let me ask you to simply ignore my comments if you find them so disturbing. I meant the colour (only in singular, not in plural) as a distinguishing feature, sincle I humbly believe HARD that we, endusers have a little effect on what comes next. Ubisoft decision makers may read this site and certain topics - still it is on the headline. Thus perhaps they take serious comments seriously in presumptive future program development. But again I beg your pardon.

Sledgehammer: Yes, true. Ubisoft has also divided their game portfolio according to mass demand. Ours is a little but more and more widening subculture. Ageing gamers everywhere in the world prefer sophistication and optional real challenge to simple brainless butchering. The opposite can hardly occur. That is why I strongly believe that comments touching future software development must be handled with thorough attention. Correct me if you think otherwise, please. :D

[Jimbuna]

I would love to see a well done WWI mod on the SH4 engine.....

anyone? would be a nice supermod!

I'm still putting my house deeds on WWII :lol:

[kiwi_2005]

:sunny: :sunny: :sunny: :sunny: :sunny: :sunny:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v27/badaboom/SH4Img2008-03-22_185557_276.jpg

:rock: SH5 modern sub combat. Campaign will be fictional with maybe historic hide and seek single player missions/war patrols of the cold war era.

How the campaign will turn out is anyones guess but im going for a conflict with US & RUS as allies v China and New Zealand...:o no guessing who would win :rotfl:

[Adriatico]

> One of the BEST FEATURES of SH series is:
crusing at sea surfece in various weather conditions and various daytimes

In a "modern conflict" it would be suicide... wery quick one ! (impossible) :dead:

> Also, one of the great features is variety of subs - with interesting shapes, colors, etc. ...instead of shapeles " BLACK SAUSAGES " deeply submarged

-------------------------------
So please, when it comes to visuals, do not use flash-green font against genuine beauty of wolfpack environment:

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/716/doenitzum9.jpg

:know: :|\\
...to be continued

[Ishigami]

I really hope they start all over. An improved version of SH4 won’t cut it if you ask me.
There are several aspects that really need to be addressed.

First of all I think that to represent the submarine warfare realistically you need to represent naval and aerial warfare in general in a reasonable way.
We do not only need working and somewhat realistic sensors but e.g. realistic view distances, weapons and ranges and foremost realistic AI behavior and all of this for all units.

They need to change how they handle units especially when it comes to cruisers, battleships and aircraft carriers. These units where really limited and it is simply not realistic to sink e.g. 4x Yamato class battleships in a career if there were only two in the whole war.

Then they need to really improve the AI of warships and aircrafts.
While the merchant AI is somewhat alright the AI of warships (except the destroyers) is really poor because it’s basically the same, even more passive if you ask me. Warships won’t engage or flee from other ships until they are in weapon range and they won’t use any tactic whatsoever (except evading torpedoes) but following a path of waypoints.
They should interact with each other e.g. in a desperate situation try to flee or charge if there is a chance of winning the fight. They should use tactics like torpedo attacks, formation changes and smoke screens.
The AI of aircrafts is useless. I noticed that they miss almost every time even if you don’t change speed or course. They are no threads, they are jokes. All the more because of the unrealistic high anti aircraft accuracy.
They generally need to rework how airplanes and the sky work. If I remember right the altitude limit is rather low resulting in unrealistic flight altitudes. That’s the first thing to fix. Then they should fix the priorities of targets. The player unit always has the priority even if there is carrier around.
Last but not least they need to fix how planes drop torpedoes and bombs. They need different approach patterns for different targets and much better accuracy.
If they don’t give the planes the freedom to evade AA fire then they need to make AA fire inaccurate to represent its infectivity correctly and the AA guns of ships should pick up several targets at the same time and not one after another they simply were not that coordinated.

Another thing that got on my nerves is that you are unable to attack land based units or batteries.
Would be so cool to bust an unguarded port and you never know what people could come up with in mods or missions if you make them vulnerable in general.


A change in the graphics is bound to happen with these changes.
As I said the need to change how the sky works and if they are at it they could build in a really nice weather system with realistic clouds.
Something like this:
http://upload.imageparadise.net/fsxcloud.jpg

This is a cloud from Real Environment Xtreme for the Flight Simulator X and 9 (more information: http://www.realenvironmentxtreme.com/ ).
Then an enhanced view distance to realistic level.
And when we are at nice sceneries they could build in realistic seabed based on sonar (or whatever) data.
For the above mentioned flight simulator you are able to get a world mesh with an accuracy of 79 meters (Add on called FS Global 2008, 3 DVDs of mesh data but worth it!).
I’m sure there are sources for more accurate heights then these 4 or 5 standard heights Silent Hunter is using. They don’t even have to include depth we will never see but for shallow water this would be awesome because it’s also a thread and challenge. With more accurate data/engine they could build real reefs, imagine Truk or other atolls with an engine like REX and FS Global 2008:
http://upload.imageparadise.net/fsxwater.jpg

I really see no reason why the seabed in shallow water in a submarine simulator is supposed to be flat like it is in SH3/4.
What really annoys me is how the submarine acts an in storm on the surface. There is no physics behind this, simple and even wrong animations. That’s something to fix: A boat that really reacts to the surrounding water. An U-Boat that’s dancing on the waves like in Das Boot.

You may not find this important because this mostly deals with insufficient representation of surface combat and environment but for me it is because that’s my prey and what I see. I give in that I may not be the hardcore simulation fan. I rather hunt warships than merchants and meddling with a really close to real surface battle would be awesome.
And with all the new possibilities we would be enabled to really recreate the naval battles that took place and not just place some ships somewhere.

[Adriatico]

Scary winter Atlantic, without reefs and corals, would be fine...
:arrgh!:

http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/2589/realmc3.jpg

[Task Force]

http://upload.imageparadise.net/fsxwater.jpg
I wonder how you can get the water to look like this in FSX. Ive never seen my water look like this. (the reefs under water):-?

[Seeadler]

I wonder how you can get the water to look like this in FSX. Ive never seen my water look like this. (the reefs under water):-? it's a screen from the gallery of this upcomming FSX addon
http://www.realenvironmentxtreme.com

at present I use this addon with my FSX
http://www.flightenvironment.com/
which produce also nice high-def clouds and ocean water

[Orion2012]

I would love to see a well done WWI mod on the SH4 engine.....

anyone? would be a nice supermod!
I'm still putting my house deeds on WWII :lol:

I think it's a safe bet it'll be WW2

[Task Force]

I wonder how you can get the water to look like this in FSX. Ive never seen my water look like this. (the reefs under water):-? it's a screen from the gallery of this upcomming FSX addon
http://www.realenvironmentxtreme.com

at present I use this addon with my FSX
http://www.flightenvironment.com/
which produce also nice high-def clouds and ocean water

I wonder how the first one will affect performance.:hmm: (sorry to go off topic.)

[TitaniumRR]

Story highlights:

1) b.v.e.: (see down below): If the new game comes in a short while, is it truly believed to surpass the graphics of SH4?

2) b.g.e.: Can ethalon be the GWX 2.1 in this respect?

3) Which war's all detailed aspect can be likely programmed in the new game: WW2 or Cold war?

4) Emotionally touching accomplishment of all above:
We humans are adjusted to fight. 'If you want peace, prepare for war'. Psychologically take a group, give them everything - I mean EVERYTHING - leave them alone isolated from everything that's disadvantegous. Look what they are going to do to each other after certan time. That's what most game developer co.s ride on. The beauty of power and destruction.

Should we not know what this is all about, let's watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vaImLvZbPw&feature=related

Impressive, isn't it? :cool:

So what is missing from the SH history series? We have WW2 (Atlantic)-SH3, WW2(Pacific)-SH4. Do we have a cold war episode made by Ubisoft? ;)

[Seminole]

Why not a 20,000 leagues under the sea SH5 fantasy version?

Then the skys (maybe seabottom?) pretty much the limit as to where we can go...

Possibly little Mario Brothers to form away parties to complete missions...

[scrapser]

No matter what era or what theater SH5 covers, you can bet your life it will be released as an unfinished beta program full of errors. I'm so sick of this that I barely touch SH4 and lost interest in SH3 long ago. It's like buying that new car you always wanted and then immediately putting it in the shop for an overhaul where it ends up never being quite what you bought it for.

Personally, I wish another developer would do a WW2 sub simulation. UbiSoft does not own the rights to the basic fleet or u-boat interface that is modeled in most sub sims.

[elanaiba]

Personally, I wish another developer would do a WW2 sub simulation. UbiSoft does not own the rights to the basic fleet or u-boat interface that is modeled in most sub sims.

Frankly, I wish that too :)

[tomoose]

Unfortunately Ubi knows that the Subsim lot are a thick-skinned, stubborn and overly-forgiving bunch who just keep coming back for more. Case in point, a thread for the next edition of an "unfinished" game for no apparent reason!!!!;)

[scrapser]

Personally, I wish another developer would do a WW2 sub simulation. UbiSoft does not own the rights to the basic fleet or u-boat interface that is modeled in most sub sims.

Frankly, I wish that too :)

I hope you aren't one of the SH developers that worked on the SH series. If so, no offense. I have nothing against the people who do the coding. I know if they had control, the programs would not be released prematurely and any subsequent errors found would be patched. This is how is should be.

It's a strange world where software is only partially developed by companies and eagerly purchased by the buying public; knowing they are getting the short end of the stick every time and yet begging for more.

This is now, "normal".

[tomoose]

....for certain publishers but not all. For example, I think it's fair to say that EA has a pretty good reputation for delivering fairly solid final products. The Call of Duty franchise (ID publisher?) has been almost rock solid but if you look at the credits on these games they had a HUGE number of quality control types employed to check the games out prior to release (which was obviously missing with SHIV).

Having said that the one gem in Ubi's favour is the IL 2 franchise but I'm willing to bet that had a lot to do with Oleg and crew's dedication to their product (i.e. numerous free patches and their expansion 'packs').

The other side of this coin of course is the impatient gaming public who simply can't wait for the next iteration of a game and bombard publishers' forums/mailboxes with incessant "when's it coming out?"-type queries, inuendo and unsubstantiated rumours. Combine this with the necessity on the publisher's part of keeping ahead of the competition for the almighty $$ and you get a rush to release the latest and greatest product regardless of how "finished" it is.

I'm hoping that Oleg and 1C with Storm of War raises the bar yet again and shows that some things are simply worth the wait (as with IL 2). Maybe certain publishers will take note and realize that releasing a high-quality product will bring in just as much if not more money due to the fact that more people will buy it as opposed to a flawed product.
:lost:

[Adriatico]

Oleg is out of class...
http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/ScreenShot001.jpg

Just wish that Ubi Romania had 10% of his open-minded approach within development of projects an add-ons...

So imersive feeling of "being part of historical combat" with original Il2 , many years ago... it is just a "homework" for the rest of sim-constructors.

:|\\

It's out of topic and forum... sorry moderators...

[scrapser]

There was a time when software companies began a project and then found out later on they had aimed a little too high and ran out of money before the project was finished. They were forced to put what they had on market to get some money to continue. If they were lucky, they could afford to fund the necessary finishing polish. This was understandable and acceptable as an exception to the rule.

But today, companies deliberately plan this approach right from the start. Maybe not all as other posters have pointed out but enough to be noticable as a trend. All things change in time and hopefully this approach too will ultimately fail as a way to produce software.

One thing I don't get about the SH series. Why don't the developers use the same development data they gathered in the previous program? When SH4 was developed, there were problems that SH3 never had...why was it so difficult to produce the same features in SH4? Features that are common to any submarine?

SH5 is supposed to be all new code. Why? Why not capitalize on previous work, not reinvent the wheel, and use the time and money to do the job right for a change? This is just plain common sense.

[GlobalExplorer]

SH5 is supposed to be all new code. Why? Why not capitalize on previous work, not reinvent the wheel, and use the time and money to do the job right for a change? This is just plain common sense.

Common sense does not directly transfer into software development. I'm sure they will incorporate a lot of code from the previous versions, but in order to add really new features and streamline the code you must draw the line some day. A lot of the code will be inefficient or messed up, people will have left to other companies, and for the new guys it's often easier to start over. If you download the sourcecode for some opensourced games (e.g. Battle of Britain 2) and have a look inside you will understand. Games are really complex beasts.

[scrapser]

Yes, I agree and did not mean to imply cutting and pasting existing code...rather, I was talking about the basic architecture from the design standpoint. They know the submarine's dive depth, top speed, physical specs, etc. They know the formulas for controlling torpedo behavior once fired. Things like that are the constants here and yet these are things that work better or worse from one iteration to the next.

I also understand how common sense does not factor into the IT world...I'm a developer myself. But what I see in my company is people always taking the quick and dirty approach to fixing something rather than the long view which pays dividends over time. Perhaps that's the problem with sims. Companies figure each new title is a one shot deal and don't think about making something that evolves with each new generation.

Maybe they never stop and think of it that way.

[GlobalExplorer]

For sure it seems software development needs to repeat the same mistakes over and over. But it's usually not the devs that are to blame, though they contribute to it to some extent. Main reason is rush from the employers, who always want to see that next build "yesterday".

But who says the mysterious game is really about submarines? I think it's very likely that it will be some sort of surface ship sim, i.e. Destroyer Command.

[GlobalExplorer]

And who says it's the aim to create the perfect product, with a really future proof engine? I guess the aim with releasing a new game is to sell it x number of times, and minimize the time t people are getting paid for doing it. If you get a much better game in 2t what would be the benefit for the company developing it, assuming it will not result in 2x sales? That's the sad truth about games development, if you are fed up with that you must head to the opensource world, or the few idealistic indy companies that we have. There actually exist games outside the mainstream that are more following the principles you righteously praise here.

[Seminole]

No matter what era or what theater SH5 covers, you can bet your life it will be released as an unfinished beta program full of errors.

I hear that a lot no matter what company or title is being discussed....:yep:

I wonder what I would hear if SH 5, provided there is one, hit the shelves fully finished,bug free, pirate proof with a price tag of $500.00...:hmm:
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

But I've been thinking...looking at all these carriers through the 'scope in SHIV has made me dredge up memories of all those old Carrier Games that were loads of fun.

I wouldn't mind leaving the silent service for a tour in command of a WWII flat top task force.

[Falkirion]

Outside of the specific Ubi house (Romania or Ukraine? I cant remember) that develops it would the wider Ubi company have any more details? There's an Ubi booth at the convention I'm going to on the weekend and I was thinking of trying to get some SH 5 info out of them.

[CaptainHaplo]

Boy did this thing turn negative.....

For the record - if you read Sailor Steve's recap, its obvious that SH5 will be WW2 - with at least part of its focus on the Atlantic.

Now - for those calling for SH5 to be a cold war sim - not only is it to late - but kindly don't go changing what made the SH games so great. There is more to the Silent Hunter FRANCHISE than just SH3 and SH4. The fact is - from day one the Silent Hunter name is about WW2. Its ok to want a more modern subsim - and its cool to want it done by UBI, but when you start messing with a franchise name that many here have come to love - your asking for negative responses as you have received. Pitch your ideas - but don't do so at the cost of something that others have come to cherish. Offer a name with the idea - but a thread about SH5 isnt the place for it. This isn't said to stifle conversation - but its done to make the point of WHY the negative responses have occured. Its a great discussion to have - just take into account we already have some information and thus it makes the discussion HERE - in an SH5 thread - moot and irritating.

[CaptainHaplo]

AI Ideas for SH5

Using a new engine allows for some real "dreams" to be brought closer. Its a given that the graphics will be improved, as that is a cornerstone to the game's marketing. So I won't dwell much on that.

However, gameplay improvements and features that could make SH5 the ultimate game are great topics.

Here are some I will suggest.

#1 - AI - make this as realistic as possible. Individual ship AI is decent for the most part, but give it convoy or group AI as well. This will be an absolute MUST if your going to do wolfpacks as has been broached. An "AI" commander that prioritizes contacts and diverts the appropriate resources - instead of every destroyer in the group leaving their charges - would make the game take a huge leap forward in realism.

#2 - Realistic Air AI. The way SH4 worked, you came into range of an airbase and you are ducking every 10 minutes. This "we know your there and will fly a straight line to you every time" really got old really fast. Let the AI get limited information and work from that within boundaries.

#3 - Same goes for Convoy AI - if you have an ultra target headed toward you and you decide that an hour or 3 before you expect contact to take out that pesky small freighter - its very possible (but not certain) that the important target will get wind of you and divert around your suspected location. This historically happened on occasion (both with or without diverts).

#4 - Make the game more moddable. While SH3/4 were very customizable in many ways. Yet a number of things could NOT be modded. AI for example was very limited in what we could do.

#5 - Again with the AI - but it appears there will be some ability to affect specific conflicts. If your going to do this - make a "theatre" or war AI that can create and assign tasks and resources based on loose historical events or plans. For example - an extremely successful U-boat campaign could weaken Britain further - keeping the RAF from winning the Battle of Britain. This would enable some form of Operation Sealion to go forward. - providing U-boat kapitans with missions to interdict and destroy elements of the British Fleet that would sortie in defense. While the ultimate outcome would not likely be able to be changed (though who knows what the devs can do) - such "if only" scenarios could be limited in scope - or coule be allowed to snowball into "history" changing events. Either way, it would add some additional variety without destroying the proud history of undersea warfare. But to impliment it would require a strategic AI of sorts. I am going to HOPE that SH5 does both Atlantic and Pacific theaters - and if so then there would need to be a strategic level AI for both.

On a side note - one thing that MUST never be allowed to occur again in SH5 was the zombie ship that would appear if you sank a ship. This created a serious performance drag as a mission progressed - especially a successful patrol!

[Kapitan_Phillips]

Immersion Immersion Immersion, devs. Make me FEEL like I'm there. I want to practically be able to smell the diesels, taste the salty breeze of the Atlantic or Pacific, and vomit at the toxic fart from Bernard.

Okay, maybe not the last one. But still, I'd really love to see things implemented that makes you feel like part of the boat, rather than a figureless camera who occassionally barks out an order. If you limit the number of rooms on board, make those rooms you DO render complete. Let me mess with every damn thing I see. If I want to pick up an orange, let me pick up an orange. If I want to read a book, journal, or even just open and close drawers and cabinets, let me do it.

Also, I'd love to see the crew actually doing things on board. Rather than having the classic stand-around-until-you-need-to-nod crew, why not try and make some of them walk around? Lying in the Captains bunk for example, why not have the occassional crewman walk past, and when the watch is relieved, why not let me see them switching places?

Another thing I would really love to see, is people interacting with their environment. The galley for instance, it'd be amazing to see the cook occassionally in there, cooking something up, or making coffee.

Finally, I'd like to be able to really imagine myself in the shoes of the Commander. If I'm on the bridge in the crappiest weather under the sky, and a wave hits that sprays the bridge crew, make the camera jerk and look downwards, as if that wave really did hit me in the face. Strong winds could seriously distort your view, making the camera narrow and blurred. These things plagued real commanders, so it should also plague me.

I know these may seem trivial to all of you, but one of the things that I love about Silent Hunter is the fact that I can lose myself in history, and enjoy being able to get into character and deal with what they had to.

Just my two cents :)

[Arclight]

Some of the more sensible ideas in this thread. ;)

Signs of life/intelligence on the sub and other ships, interaction between the environment and characters. Heck, maybe throw in a bit of RPG and have some interation between characters as well. Ports that feel a bit more alive instead of just some moored ships. Would all do wonders for immersion.

IMO some new code is neccesary. The current engine has it's limits, like the "sub on rails effect". Water surface starts to "race" as stuff gets out of sync. Dive planes that stop functioning. All stuff that apparently can't be patched, or I imagine they would have by now. Some new (possible) features like a hull buckling/denting from extreme pressure or a collision (I think) aren't currently possible.

It's been said before, but it's worth mentioning again; the devs aren't the ones that set the deadlines. I'm sure they do the best they can within the time they're given.

I wonder how long this thread is gonna live? :hmm:
Thought it was dead a while ago, but it keeps reviving itself. :lol:

[Adriatico]

Immersion Immersion Immersion, devs. Make me FEEL like I'm there. I want to practically be able to smell the diesels, taste the salty breeze of the Atlantic or Pacific, and vomit at the toxic fart from Bernard.




The main thing in immersion... is to have a real "alive" sea:

http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/9355/seabey5.jpg

By all means, it should be the best sea - so far in PC gaming...

SH series should be benchmark in "sea surface" for other PC titles.

:o

[CaptainHaplo]

Well - lets discuss immersion. Again I will avoid discussion of graphics.

Lets talk SOUND! How about each ship class having its own sound? For example - by listening to the screw noises I can make a good guess as to its size/class - or at least its penchant for violence..... Merchants will have 1 or 2 deep sounding screws - where a escort may have one or 2 high rev "lighter" sounding ones. A heavy warship will have multiple heavy screws. If the game can modify signal strength at the hydrophones reasonably - we could really have great fun with this! Speed determinations, range estimates (and calcs using bearing and strength of signal), even situational awareness could be improved.

Gameplay options:

Standing orders for the crew or OOD - like dont wake me or stop TC for a junk, notify me if the ice cream machine breaks down, ignore small merchants or tug boats... etc.

Realistic equipment failures - have everything given a MTF - with a random variable. Then on patrol maybe a radar part shorts out and dies, or an engine craps out.... the serious issues would be real rare - but POSSIBLE. Even just cruising and having my chief come tell me we got a problem with such and such (serious equipment issues only) would really add to that "Im in the middle of the ocean on a big metal cigar" feeling.

More realism in the damage models! This is for both the targets - use flooding damage calcs instead of HP - though HP can be used in conjunction. Work on the dynamics of being attacked and the physics involved. The homing DC at 400+ feet has got to go - the impulse areas should be heavily reduced with depth, etc. Things like this would go very far in making the game more immersive!

[Steeltrap]

Well if we're talking "immersion", I take a slightly different view of it.

There aren't many 'unknowns' about WWII subs these days. Given that, it is really quite indefensible for blatant mistakes to be built into the sim.

A few cases:

* air warning radar that gives a bearing and range: fact is no submarine-mounted air-warning radar EVER did this (the USA had best sub-mounted radar, and theirs gave range ONLY).
* propulsion and recharging: totally different between German and US subs. SH4 simply copied SH3 in how this was handled, and that's crap.
* deck guns that are absurdly powerful. If you read accounts from the US vets, for example, it took many, many hits from a DG to sink even a modest size freighter (I think Wahoo used around 70 rounds on a target smaller than 2,000 tons).
* AA guns that are like lasers of death. I've read reports in this forum of people destroying 20+ planes on a patrol. That's just nuts.
* Subs were inordinately difficult to spot on the surface at night. Even in 1944, O'Kane had Tang on the surface within 1,500yds of an ESCORT without being sighted. Try that in stock. In fact, try it in many mods. It's one reason why the Allies, with effective radar, vs the Axis, with no/ineffective radar, enjoyed superiority.
* Escorts didn't know the depth of a sub with any certainty until some time in 1943 for the Allies, and NEVER for the Japanese. Why is it DCs always seem to go off at pretty much the right depth?

And so on. Could give a list a mile long. If they want to get it 'right' then it needs to start from the basics of "what was real for the majority of the time?" and then develop. Sure, crew quality will affect things, as will blind luck. But they should be factors affecting a 'real' base, not a case of regularly leading to results that are simply indefensible in light of known facts.

OK, if they want the sim to have wider appeal, they need it to be able to be a 'yippee shooter' for those without the time or inclination to experience things as they were (in so far as that is able to be determined). I'd do that by allowing people to choose between 'total realism', 'some realism' and 'run around shooting everything with ease'. Again, that presumes building the highest level and then being able to turn it down, rather than middle to low realism being the norm with us relying on modders to bring things to more 'realistic' levels.

It would be a fascinating project if approached from that perspective. I'd happily work on it as a researcher/tester - I'm a business analyst/consultant in real life, so a project such as this (in which I would be inherently interested and aiming for excellence) would be a considerable improvement over working on a bunch of stuff about which, in all honesty, I care very little!!

The problems of the real world, especially the financial ones, inevitably lead to compromises being made. I can accept that; the trouble is when the marketers try to flog the results as though no compromises have been made that consumers get pissed off.

They seem to forget one of the basic rules: always under-promise and over-deliver. People will give howls of delight when they get more than what they expected. They give very different howls when they pay for something and it doesn't deliver as promised (and we could quote a few examples of that from our beloved sims, couldn't we?).

Cheers

[Adriatico]

The biggest immersion would be... if somebody from Ubi - dares to mention that title...
:rotfl: :rotfl:
This thread should be renamed: I have a dream...

With a full fespect to M.L.K.
(...and of course, subsim fuse starter:rotfl: )

:cry:

[Alex]

dynamic radiotrafic

THAT would be great ! :huh:
I didn't even think about this possible (?) improvement.
You should PM one of the devs, Mike. :)

:up:

[peewee]

Well if we're talking "immersion", I take a slightly different view of it.

There aren't many 'unknowns' about WWII subs these days. Given that, it is really quite indefensible for blatant mistakes to be built into the sim.

A few cases:

* air warning radar that gives a bearing and range: fact is no submarine-mounted air-warning radar EVER did this (the USA had best sub-mounted radar, and theirs gave range ONLY).
* propulsion and recharging: totally different between German and US subs. SH4 simply copied SH3 in how this was handled, and that's crap.
* deck guns that are absurdly powerful. If you read accounts from the US vets, for example, it took many, many hits from a DG to sink even a modest size freighter (I think Wahoo used around 70 rounds on a target smaller than 2,000 tons).
* AA guns that are like lasers of death. I've read reports in this forum of people destroying 20+ planes on a patrol. That's just nuts.
* Subs were inordinately difficult to spot on the surface at night. Even in 1944, O'Kane had Tang on the surface within 1,500yds of an ESCORT without being sighted. Try that in stock. In fact, try it in many mods. It's one reason why the Allies, with effective radar, vs the Axis, with no/ineffective radar, enjoyed superiority.
* Escorts didn't know the depth of a sub with any certainty until some time in 1943 for the Allies, and NEVER for the Japanese. Why is it DCs always seem to go off at pretty much the right depth?

And so on. Could give a list a mile long. If they want to get it 'right' then it needs to start from the basics of "what was real for the majority of the time?" and then develop. Sure, crew quality will affect things, as will blind luck. But they should be factors affecting a 'real' base, not a case of regularly leading to results that are simply indefensible in light of known facts.

OK, if they want the sim to have wider appeal, they need it to be able to be a 'yippee shooter' for those without the time or inclination to experience things as they were (in so far as that is able to be determined). I'd do that by allowing people to choose between 'total realism', 'some realism' and 'run around shooting everything with ease'. Again, that presumes building the highest level and then being able to turn it down, rather than middle to low realism being the norm with us relying on modders to bring things to more 'realistic' levels.

It would be a fascinating project if approached from that perspective. I'd happily work on it as a researcher/tester - I'm a business analyst/consultant in real life, so a project such as this (in which I would be inherently interested and aiming for excellence) would be a considerable improvement over working on a bunch of stuff about which, in all honesty, I care very little!!

The problems of the real world, especially the financial ones, inevitably lead to compromises being made. I can accept that; the trouble is when the marketers try to flog the results as though no compromises have been made that consumers get pissed off.

They seem to forget one of the basic rules: always under-promise and over-deliver. People will give howls of delight when they get more than what they expected. They give very different howls when they pay for something and it doesn't deliver as promised (and we could quote a few examples of that from our beloved sims, couldn't we?).

Cheers

I agree 100%

[Rockin Robbins]

This thread hasn't died a well-deserved death yet?http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/RockinRobbins13/smileys/popcorn.gif

[Task Force]

Nope, it hasent.:lol:

[Jimbuna]

I'm sure they're reading the whole thread with a great interest :D

While I'm at it (=dreaming stuff), it would be cool to have some simple oldschool features. Like having a surrendering option, and if you use it, the game rolls a dice and either you get a nice screen showing you in a POW camp until the end of the war, or a screen showing a German newspaper recounting your daring escape and showing you back in a Uboat 6 months/1 year after your initial capture.
Same if you get sunk, the game rolls a dice and either you die or manage to escape the wreck and get captured, if the latter the game rolls a second dice and either you end the war as a POW or you escape. Yes, Red Baron left its mark in my skull :cool:

Those features would be a real bonus http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/thumbsup.gif

[Alex]

dynamic radiotrafic
THAT would be great ! :huh:
I didn't even think about this possible (?) improvement.
You should PM one of the devs, Mike. :)

:up:
I'm sure they're reading the whole thread with a great interest :D

While I'm at it (=dreaming stuff), it would be cool to have some simple oldschool features. Like having a surrendering option, and if you use it, the game rolls a dice and either you get a nice screen showing you in a POW camp until the end of the war, or a screen showing a German newspaper recounting your daring escape and showing you back in a Uboat 6 months/1 year after your initial capture.
Same if you get sunk, the game rolls a dice and either you die or manage to escape the wreck and get captured, if the latter the game rolls a second dice and either you end the war as a POW or you escape. Yes, Red Baron left its mark in my skull :cool:
Ah, I see... :cool:
You got some pretty good ideas too. :D
Personally I've sent my requests for SH5 by PM to Dan in... December 2007. :rotfl:

:88)

[THE_MASK]

Ok , heres another suggestion for SH5 . Give the GWX4 guys the SDK and call it Silent Hunter-GWX5

[Jimbuna]

Ok , heres another suggestion for SH5 . Give the GWX4 guys the SDK and call it Silent Hunter-GWX5

If that happens you become the honorary lifetime president of the GW at The Lair and I buy everyone at SS (well those that play and support GWX) a drink :lol:

[THE_MASK]

Somehow i think it aint gunna happen .

[Jimbuna]

Somehow i think it aint gunna happen .

If I was a gambling man, I'd put my money on your comment :lol:

[Sledgehammer427]

:rotfl: i dunno tho, s3d is better than an sdk in my opinion...i got the far cry sdk...and i wasz confuzzled

[Mercedes]

I sometimes wonder if they would ever do another Destroyer Command and treat it as an expansion to SH4, while still using the same graphics and physics code to save money. I really liked the original DC and had many good multiplayer games with it.

A pipe dream I know, but you're allowed to dream.

[MH]

I would like to have automatic map update dependent on player"s TDC input.
Why did they not do it in SH4?:nope:

[dannygjk]

Hmmm, not unless a way was finally perfected to coordinate dozens of programmers. Unless by, 'all new code', they mean, 'all new data'. Which ain't all new code.

[scrapser]

Unfortunately, "All new code" means "all new mistakes". You'd think since UBISoft seems to be infatuated with pumping out sub sims they would finally get the dust to settle and put out some polished work for a change. I mean really, how many times do you have to re-invent the wheel to get it right?

[Kapitan_Phillips]

Ok , heres another suggestion for SH5 . Give the GWX4 guys the SDK and call it Silent Hunter-GWX5
If that happens you become the honorary lifetime president of the GW at The Lair and I buy everyone at SS (well those that play and support GWX) a drink :lol:

Bloody hell, jimbuna getting his round in? Are you listening, Ubi?!

[elanaiba]

Unfortunately, "All new code" means "all new mistakes". You'd think since UBISoft seems to be infatuated with pumping out sub sims they would finally get the dust to settle and put out some polished work for a change. I mean really, how many times do you have to re-invent the wheel to get it right?

Actually, there's an ongoing debate on how many polys you need for the wheel to look "perfect".

[elanaiba]

Ok , heres another suggestion for SH5 . Give the GWX4 guys the SDK and call it Silent Hunter-GWX5
If that happens you become the honorary lifetime president of the GW at The Lair and I buy everyone at SS (well those that play and support GWX) a drink :lol:
Bloody hell, jimbuna getting his round in? Are you listening, Ubi?!

Yeah, we're listening, but there's no narrator...

[Alex]

Unfortunately, "All new code" means "all new mistakes". You'd think since UBISoft seems to be infatuated with pumping out sub sims they would finally get the dust to settle and put out some polished work for a change. I mean really, how many times do you have to re-invent the wheel to get it right?
Actually, there's an ongoing debate on how many polys you need for the wheel to look "perfect".

:up:

[TarJak]

Yeah, we're listening, but there's no narrator...

Didn't Jim buy you enough rounds in Houston?:lol:

[HansVonBeehan]

Unfortunately, "All new code" means "all new mistakes". You'd think since UBISoft seems to be infatuated with pumping out sub sims they would finally get the dust to settle and put out some polished work for a change. I mean really, how many times do you have to re-invent the wheel to get it right?
Actually, there's an ongoing debate on how many polys you need for the wheel to look "perfect".

:up:

Just a bit of topic but I love your sig!

[elanaiba]

Yeah, we're listening, but there's no narrator...

Didn't Jim buy you enough rounds in Houston?:lol:

Ammunition or beer?

[Alex]

@ HansVonBeehan : Me too, hehe, Danlisa is the man (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=144076). :up:

[nikimcbee]

I held the demo disk in my hand! i shot some video of Neal playing the low poly version, and We took a screen shot on a cameraphone. I haven'r got around to posting it yet. (SH5 stuff)

[elanaiba]

Damn it Jason... all was supposed to be kept secret :o :/\\!!

[tomoose]

Scrapster's point....:up:

[nikimcbee]

Damn it Jason... all was supposed to be kept secret :o :/\\!!

I guess it's a good thing I'm a slow poster. I'll get around to posting it when SH6 is released. SH6 " Elephant Seals of the Bay."

:lol:

[longam]

Damn it Jason... all was supposed to be kept secret :o :/\\!!

Is this one of those intentional leaks?:rock:

[scrapser]

Unfortunately, "All new code" means "all new mistakes". You'd think since UBISoft seems to be infatuated with pumping out sub sims they would finally get the dust to settle and put out some polished work for a change. I mean really, how many times do you have to re-invent the wheel to get it right?

Actually, there's an ongoing debate on how many polys you need for the wheel to look "perfect".

Now that's funny!

[Rockin Robbins]

It isn't dead yet?http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/RockinRobbins13/smileys/3d-paranoid.gif

[Patrick]

Not much, but check out this link. It seems that this thread is not a total waste of time...:hmm:


http://www.worthplaying.com/article.php?sid=56871

[Rockin Robbins]

Yeah, after all this complaining they'll make it an unmoddable game.:nope:

[Jimbuna]

Yeah, we're listening, but there's no narrator...

Didn't Jim buy you enough rounds in Houston?:lol:

Ammunition or beer?

Beer ya bugga http://imgcash2.imageshack.us/img134/9742/angry8se2.gif

I distinctly remember having to steady you for the photo http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/6324/uowyaydh5wc2zm2.gif

http://img374.imageshack.us/img374/7623/1stmc8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

....and who had difficulty standing whilst aboard the Texas http://img113.imageshack.us/img113/7975/gigglebigtb9fg3.gif

http://img374.imageshack.us/img374/5665/2ndju5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Good times Dan http://imgcash3.imageshack.us/img412/4774/thumbsuplargeon1.gif

[rascal101]

I think, knowing the publishing industry as I do and the way editors think, not far different from the games industry

I have a hunch that the folks at Ubi have seen the amount of work and dedication from the various individuals and teams of modders, and I recon SH5 will simply be a game that utilises or improves on all the graphics and game play issues highlighted in SH3 and SH4 and they will still set it in WW2 but they will make it a surface and / or submerged sim, in other words you can choose ships or subs, who knows maybe even air as well

[geosub1978]

I can only imagine of one title:

"SILENT HUNTER 5"

BACK TO THE ATLANTIC

[gimpy117]

please be WWI!

[Mikkow]

How brilliant! I feel like I'm reaping the rewards now by doing the good deed and buying the games of these niche markets. Bought SH3 and SH4 - my economy does not permit me to buy much to say the least. In the past my economy was even worse and I've seen some of my favorite studious go down, and I hadn't actually paid for some of their games that I played. Do I ever feel bad about it all. Much love to the Bucharest SH team & studio.

The immersion of SH3-4 always blew me away. But I knew it can be taken even further. Most of the game kicks ass already and I don't think it needs much more to it. My biggest wish is that sequels improve on the sub and it's machinery and the people inside it. I'd much rather have just one sub with full interiors and and as authentic working crew/damage as possible, and the freedom to walk around/explore/interact as much as is possible.

Examples of what this could include, and which is probably within reach of today's resources/abilities:

* Rescued airmen, prisoners of war, spies that are to be inserted, assault teams, represented as animated people, spending their time sleeping/eating/talking to crew (does not need to be very detailed, just some neat 3d models doing some looped animation like the rest of the crew is in SH3-4).

* Real/random incidents and choices regarding it - accidents, disease, crime, insubordination, mental illness, POW troubles and other incidents. Does not need any graphical work, only a text report with options on what your reaction as captain will be about it, which affects morale and other things. I remember playing a mod on SH3 that had random events while in port, which really added a lot to the game.

* More world atmosphere. SH4 included some radio broadcasts of speeches/news. I downloaded some mods about this, but sadly the SH4 radio playback system was very limited and it was very hard to be able to listen to it all, or even to know when there was a news announcement. I ended up (in the mod) just checking each day to see if a new MP3 was supposed to be played or not while alt-tabbed. I also found great joy by, when I came back to port, look up newspapers from the real world online, that the crew would have read when they were in port. News items presented in writing would be an immersive and interesting addition.

-

Now, who knows if it'll even be about WW2 or even WW1. If it's set in some fictional event, I guess they would have to come up with their own newsclippings, radio broacasts etc.

Edit: I just read Sailor Steve's excellent adventure, and some ideas there that Dan asked and was discussed were very good. A more dynamic campaign would be much welcome, and the renown thing. I like the idea of being able to change the outcome of the war, but only in very special circumstances. Normally a sub wouldn't be able to do much. Maybe postpone or advance the schedule of things. This conflicts a bit with the news media I'd like. Perhaps it could be optional. I.e. historical with news, or dynamic without some/most of the news.

[THE_MASK]

Examples of what this could include, and which is probably within reach of today's resources/abilities:

* Rescued airmen, prisoners of war, spies that are to be inserted, assault teams, represented as animated people, spending their time sleeping/eating/talking to crew (does not need to be very detailed, just some neat 3d models doing some looped animation like the rest of the crew is in SH3-4).

* Real/random incidents and choices regarding it - accidents, disease, crime, insubordination, mental illness, POW troubles and other incidents. Does not need any graphical work, only a text report with options on what your reaction as captain will be about it, which affects morale and other things. I remember playing a mod on SH3 that had random events while in port, which really added a lot to the game.

* More world atmosphere. SH4 included some radio broadcasts of speeches/news. I downloaded some mods about this, but sadly the SH4 radio playback system was very limited and it was very hard to be able to listen to it all, or even to know when there was a news announcement. I ended up (in the mod) just checking each day to see if a new MP3 was supposed to be played or not while alt-tabbed. I also found great joy by, when I came back to port, look up newspapers from the real world online, that the crew would have read when they were in port. News items presented in writing would be an immersive and interesting addition.
. Crews eyes would be good .

[THE_MASK]

Examples of what this could include, and which is probably within reach of today's resources/abilities:

* Rescued airmen, prisoners of war, spies that are to be inserted, assault teams, represented as animated people, spending their time sleeping/eating/talking to crew (does not need to be very detailed, just some neat 3d models doing some looped animation like the rest of the crew is in SH3-4).

* Real/random incidents and choices regarding it - accidents, disease, crime, insubordination, mental illness, POW troubles and other incidents. Does not need any graphical work, only a text report with options on what your reaction as captain will be about it, which affects morale and other things. I remember playing a mod on SH3 that had random events while in port, which really added a lot to the game.

* More world atmosphere. SH4 included some radio broadcasts of speeches/news. I downloaded some mods about this, but sadly the SH4 radio playback system was very limited and it was very hard to be able to listen to it all, or even to know when there was a news announcement. I ended up (in the mod) just checking each day to see if a new MP3 was supposed to be played or not while alt-tabbed. I also found great joy by, when I came back to port, look up newspapers from the real world online, that the crew would have read when they were in port. News items presented in writing would be an immersive and interesting addition.
. Crews eyes is another one .

[Hartmann]

How brilliant! I feel like I'm reaping the rewards now by doing the good deed and buying the games of these niche markets. Bought SH3 and SH4 - my economy does not permit me to buy much to say the least. In the past my economy was even worse and I've seen some of my favorite studious go down, and I hadn't actually paid for some of their games that I played. Do I ever feel bad about it all. Much love to the Bucharest SH team & studio.

The immersion of SH3-4 always blew me away. But I knew it can be taken even further. Most of the game kicks ass already and I don't think it needs much more to it. My biggest wish is that sequels improve on the sub and it's machinery and the people inside it. I'd much rather have just one sub with full interiors and and as authentic working crew/damage as possible, and the freedom to walk around/explore/interact as much as is possible.

Examples of what this could include, and which is probably within reach of today's resources/abilities:

* Rescued airmen, prisoners of war, spies that are to be inserted, assault teams, represented as animated people, spending their time sleeping/eating/talking to crew (does not need to be very detailed, just some neat 3d models doing some looped animation like the rest of the crew is in SH3-4).

* Real/random incidents and choices regarding it - accidents, disease, crime, insubordination, mental illness, POW troubles and other incidents. Does not need any graphical work, only a text report with options on what your reaction as captain will be about it, which affects morale and other things. I remember playing a mod on SH3 that had random events while in port, which really added a lot to the game.

* More world atmosphere. SH4 included some radio broadcasts of speeches/news. I downloaded some mods about this, but sadly the SH4 radio playback system was very limited and it was very hard to be able to listen to it all, or even to know when there was a news announcement. I ended up (in the mod) just checking each day to see if a new MP3 was supposed to be played or not while alt-tabbed. I also found great joy by, when I came back to port, look up newspapers from the real world online, that the crew would have read when they were in port. News items presented in writing would be an immersive and interesting addition.

-

Now, who knows if it'll even be about WW2 or even WW1. If it's set in some fictional event, I guess they would have to come up with their own newsclippings, radio broacasts etc.

Edit: I just read Sailor Steve's excellent adventure, and some ideas there that Dan asked and was discussed were very good. A more dynamic campaign would be much welcome, and the renown thing. I like the idea of being able to change the outcome of the war, but only in very special circumstances. Normally a sub wouldn't be able to do much. Maybe postpone or advance the schedule of things. This conflicts a bit with the news media I'd like. Perhaps it could be optional. I.e. historical with news, or dynamic without some/most of the news.


Wolfpacks and controlable surface units :hmm:

[Iron Budokan]

I"m all for more immersion, too. That's the one factor that kept me coming back to SH3 and the one limitation that kept me away from SH4.

So, yeah, more immersion. Lots more.

[CaptHawkeye]

Yeah, it's pretty easy for us to like SH, because it's all we have When you think about it though, even SH3 is just a really mediocre sim. Ironically, it's problems kind of remind me of Oblivion.

That is, the game never actually feels like it wants you to play it. Think about it, what DO any of the games do very well OTHER than torpedo attacks on merchant ships?

[Mikkow]

The game is foremost a submarine simulator. Surface ships is more about general naval simulator, something I wouldn't mind but never at the expense of better 'subsim' if you know what I mean. If it's just a matter of subs getting assistance from surface ships, I think it was included in the latest expansion. How real it is I don't know. Whatever was real should of course be included, if possible to do. Resources are limited however.

I really liked the captain's quarters and all that from SH3. I'd go there to reflect/wait/listen to music/read stuff whatever, soak up the atmosphere. I'd imagine how it must have been like. It was disappointing to have less interiors of the subs in SH4.

The wolf pack was certainly a reality in the war and a sometimes common(?) mission assignment, and is one of the gameplay things that should indeed be included.

[FIREWALL]

I'll believe it when I see it. SHV.

The only 2 clues have been Romania Studio's and Simulators.

The only one's that have been posting SHV is YOU guy's.

I hope they put a new spin on SH4-UBM that's a reasonably priced add-on that for once is available on DVD as well as D\L.

Come on UBI quit the marketing BS.

And too the rest of you... Quit makeing up stuff and sounding like your on the insider track and know something. GET REAL !!!

[elanaiba]

What? You don't believe any of this?!

[FIREWALL]

What? You don't believe any of this?!



I'll believe it when I see it. SHV. :D :lol: ;)


http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/5810/250pxmadhk1zz5.jpg

[Arclight]

Maybe if we just hope hard enough we can will it into existence. :)

I, for one, am hoping as hard as I can. ;)

[CaptHawkeye]

The game is foremost a submarine simulator.

I know that, the crux of my argument was, it isn't even paticularly good at BEING a submarine simulator. For every detail SH pays attention to, it completely misses or half asses 2 others. How about the magically disappearing torpedoes? Merchant convoys that never call for air support and let you just surface rape them? Attacking aircraft that helpfully fly straight at you and miss all of the time? If you ever try to do anything that doesn't conform exactly to the formula...

A. Submerge

B. Torpedo at 90 degress.

C. Run away

...the game has no idea what to do and just ****s itself. To this day the worst example of this are the game's awful AI routines. If I had a penny for every damaged battleship the British didn't even bother detaching a DD escort for and just totally abandoned. :)

[zinosumatra]

I really liked the captain's quarters and all that from SH3. I'd go there to reflect/wait/listen to music/read stuff whatever, soak up the atmosphere. I'd imagine how it must have been like. It was disappointing to have less interiors of the subs in SH4.

I agree completely. For all the improvements to gfx, interiors are rather scant. It would be ideal if Ubi upped the ante in immersion. In a 3D modeled environment, it would be nice to have free range of motion. Could you imagine pacing about from bow to aft? Observing reloading of tubes or crew wanking off in their bunks to pass the time?

When props churn overhead, you'd always have the hotkeys at the ready to snap you back to station.

[elanaiba]

How about the magically disappearing torpedoes?

?! Care you detail this? I've never had this problem?


Merchant convoys that never call for air support and let you just surface rape them?

Actually... they kind of call? But of course, you have to be within reach of an airbase?

Not trying to pretend the game is perfect or a perfect "simulator" but ... I really don't get these two issues?!

[Arclight]

...If you ever try to do anything that doesn't conform exactly to the formula...

A. Submerge

B. Torpedo at 90 degress.

C. Run away

...the game has no idea what to do and just ****s itself. To this day the worst example of this are the game's awful AI routines. If I had a penny for every damaged battleship the British didn't even bother detaching a DD escort for and just totally abandoned. :)That's weird, I never conform to that formula and the game is rather splendid. :hmm:

And I thought standing orders for ships in a convoy/taskforce were to sail on no matter what. If you slow down to help a stricken vessel, you're just making a target out of yourself. If you can't keep up, you're on your own.

If you really hate it that much, you could always try some mods. ;)

[Jimbuna]

I really liked the captain's quarters and all that from SH3. I'd go there to reflect/wait/listen to music/read stuff whatever, soak up the atmosphere. I'd imagine how it must have been like. It was disappointing to have less interiors of the subs in SH4.

I agree completely. For all the improvements to gfx, interiors are rather scant. It would be ideal if Ubi upped the ante in immersion. In a 3D modeled environment, it would be nice to have free range of motion. Could you imagine pacing about from bow to aft? Observing reloading of tubes or crew wanking off in their bunks to pass the time?

When props churn overhead, you'd always have the hotkeys at the ready to snap you back to station.

I'd much rather enjoy a subsim than be a voyeur of a submerged porno movie http://imgcash6.imageshack.us/img231/1076/shockedvi8.gif

http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/7118/nofemaleqj9xl4.gif http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/3960/animsmileybarfha4.gif

[kiwi_2005]

I agree completely. For all the improvements to gfx, interiors are rather scant. It would be ideal if Ubi upped the ante in immersion. In a 3D modeled environment, it would be nice to have free range of motion. Could you imagine pacing about from bow to aft? Observing reloading of tubes or crew wanking off in their bunks to pass the time?

When props churn overhead, you'd always have the hotkeys at the ready to snap you back to station.

You know, I was nodding to myself in agreement at reading your post until it got to the crew part.... Then it just totally failed. :rotfl:

[Mikkow]

I'll pass on that comment in question. :lol:

Remember, resources are limited. I don't think it's reasonable to ask for and expect (in this iteration) a fully animated crew that actually goes around doing all their duties like "the sims". But we could ask for and get every interior of a submarine modeled in awesome detail, with crews appearing in their stations/bunks (even if they don't actually seem to do much), just like they do in SH3-4.

That, coupled with the ability planned previously but canned - to walk around (being captain and all) in first person mode, would add a hell of a lot.

Together with that, btw, it would be nice to have the option to disable 'jumping' from section to section of the ship - you'd just have to walk/run there instead. That'd give some serious urgency to the game.

What about audio? I know they reply to you in a basic way when you give orders. But is that all there really was? Wasn't there more orders being passed around down the chain? Second in command guy relaying much of the stuff?

[zinosumatra]

Ok, let me see if I can follow up and perhaps restore some dignity (doubtful :D). Stationary crew who are at their posts or just flipping though magazines (no, not those kind) in their bunks would suffice. But, in all sincerity, I'd like to see dynamic growth of beards as time elapses. After two weeks at sea, two weeks of facial hair should be evindent, except for the occasional pretty boy who is mocked dynamically in surround sound for his pretentousness. Hell, I might even feel compelled to skip a shower and forego the razor to join in the revelry! :smug:

[FIREWALL]

It kinda seems to me that some want a Movie turned into a Subsim. :p :rotfl:

It's been done. Silent Steel. IIRC it didn't sell all that well. :nope: It went the way of the dodo.:p

Be careful what you wish for. :yep:

[Mikkow]

It kinda seems to me that some want a Movie turned into a Subsim. :p :rotfl:

It's been done. Silent Steel. IIRC it didn't sell all that well. :nope: It went the way of the dodo.:p

Be careful what you wish for. :yep:
Could you give an example of what stuff that would be? I'm thinking you mean Das Boot, and that any attempts to develop on the crew and sub interior is making it like a movie. If that is what you mean, it can't be right. There's no personalities of the people on the boat you'd actually get to know, because all interaction is purely giving orders. It's not a social simulator either. But it is closer to a fair approximation of what it's like to be a captain doing 'captain' things, not bonding with the crew.

[Capt. Shark Bait]

Ok, let me see if I can follow up and perhaps restore some dignity (doubtful :D). Stationary crew who are at their posts or just flipping though magazines (no, not those kind) in their bunks would suffice. But, in all sincerity, I'd like to see dynamic growth of beards as time elapses. After two weeks at sea, two weeks of facial hair should be evindent, except for the occasional pretty boy who is mocked dynamically in surround sound for his pretentousness. Hell, I might even feel compelled to skip a shower and forego the razor to join in the revelry! :smug:

not to mentoin moving from compartment to compartment and "tinker" with things, especially in the engine room like you could in SHIII sonar/radio shack

[FIREWALL]

It kinda seems to me that some want a Movie turned into a Subsim. :p :rotfl:

It's been done. Silent Steel. IIRC it didn't sell all that well. :nope: It went the way of the dodo.:p

Be careful what you wish for. :yep:
Could you give an example of what stuff that would be? I'm thinking you mean Das Boot, and that any attempts to develop on the crew and sub interior is making it like a movie. If that is what you mean, it can't be right. There's no personalities of the people on the boat you'd actually get to know, because all interaction is purely giving orders. It's not a social simulator either. But it is closer to a fair approximation of what it's like to be a captain doing 'captain' things, not bonding with the crew.

Hi Mikkow :sunny: I just think it's gotten as good as it's gonna get.

They have given clues in SH4 and in UBM as to what the future of the Silent Hunter series is gonna be and nobody wants to see it. Better to be an Ostrich. :D

[Mikkow]

k it's gotten as good as it's gonna get.

They have given clues in SH4 and in UBM as to what the future of the Silent Hunter series is gonna be and nobody wants to see it. Better to be an Ostrich. :D
They did? What clues? I always got the impression they're listening and really want to please us - it's a niche market anyway.

[Rockin Robbins]

<pokes head up> Is it dead yet?:rotfl:

[CaptHawkeye]

?! Care you detail this? I've never had this problem?

You mean you've never followed one of the game's torpedoes to its target...only to see it magically disappear on impact? Theirs a big wave, but underneath the ship a magical black splotch just appears indicating where it was. How about the unreactive crews? Your submarine can be CAPSIZING and everyone in the boat will still be standing around like they're underway. The game just never pays attention to what it's doing. :)

Actually... they kind of call? But of course, you have to be within reach of an airbase?

Considering I was literally right off the coast of Wales when I ruled the whole convoy, the place should have been swarming with Hurricanes the moment I broke surface.

That's weird, I never conform to that formula and the game is rather splendid. :hmm:

You've never deck gunned a whole convoy to death because you ambushed the only escort? You're missing out man. :)

How about the damage model? It's so obviously based off of health bars that it's hilarious.

And I thought standing orders for ships in a convoy/taskforce were to sail on no matter what. If you slow down to help a stricken vessel, you're just making a target out of yourself. If you can't keep up, you're on your own.

Uh yeah, you missed my point? I was talking about a battleship. You'd think they'd at least scuttle it or blow it away with torpedoes, but that won't happen because the game only knows how to carry out ASW ops. :lol:


If you really hate it that much, you could always try some mods. ;)

I should, but I have this terrifying feeling the mods just improve the textures.

[Fincuan]

If you really hate it that much, you could always try some mods. ;)

I should, but I have this terrifying feeling the mods just improve the textures.

Your terrifying feeling is quite wrong I'm afraid, even a glance at the mods forum would reveal that :up:

Were you btw aware that you're discussing with a member of the dev team above?

[Arclight]

There more then pretty textures, and adress many of the issues you describe. :up:

No, I never shelled an entire convoy. I use RFB and RSRD, so there are more then 1 escort and it takes all your shells to sink just 1 ship. :lol: If I tried that, I'd be on my way to the bottom before I get a chance to man the gun.:yep:

But it would be cool to see ships being scuttled. Then again, what does it matter if I put a torpedo into it or they do it themselves? I thought you ment a damaged BB getting left behind, which would kinda make sense since anyone staying behind for protection becomes a target, and those units may be desperately needed elsewere.

It's not so bad, especially if you can find the mods that suit your tastes. :ping:

[FIREWALL]

k it's gotten as good as it's gonna get.

They have given clues in SH4 and in UBM as to what the future of the Silent Hunter series is gonna be and nobody wants to see it. Better to be an Ostrich. :D
They did? What clues? I always got the impression they're listening and really want to please us - it's a niche market anyway.


Easy one. :yep: In Multi and Online you can control DE and Merch's somewhat.

2. With UBM you now have both theaters open.

3. Now useing ones own imagination the next chapter for SH is fairly clear.

I can only guess how much info UBI gathered by keeping an eye on how many used these features Online and will improve control in a future add-on or complete Sim.:hmm:

[Sailor Steve]

And I thought standing orders for ships in a convoy/taskforce were to sail on no matter what. If you slow down to help a stricken vessel, you're just making a target out of yourself. If you can't keep up, you're on your own.
CaptHawkeye already answered the battleship question, but I'd like to add a couple of things. Destroyers are expendable. If a big warship was in dire straights, they'd never leave it alone.

As for convoys, they usually had a small ship along just to look for survivors, and if not they would detach an escort after the action was over to pick people up. On a couple of occasions a u-boat actually waylaid a lone merchant and took them to the site of a sinking, just to make sure merchant seamen were rescued.

You mean you've never followed one of the game's torpedoes to its target...only to see it magically disappear on impact? Theirs a big wave, but underneath the ship a magical black splotch just appears indicating where it was. How about the unreactive crews? Your submarine can be CAPSIZING and everyone in the boat will still be standing around like they're underway. The game just never pays attention to what it's doing. :)
Torpedoes: Did it explode? I'm perfectly happy with torpedo behavior in SH3, but can't play SH4 so I can't judge. But I'm not sure about criticizing unrealistic behavior that can only be seen using the external cameras. My solution to that would be get rid of that function in the next game.

Crew behavior: Please try to remember that SH3 was the first sub sim ever to even have a crew! Wishing for better crew behavior is cool - railing about it is premature, to say the least.

[zinosumatra]

Hi Mikkow :sunny: I just think it's gotten as good as it's gonna get.
I would take a slightly more optimistic view. :D After all, I remember my excitement with playing the original Silent Service 20 years ago. How far have we come since those more primitive days? I am thrilled that such software as SHIV is in production and do not foresee a day when the world loses fascination with the setting of WWII. Likewise, I am encouraged to see such communities as this formed in its support. I can't wait to see what is available to us 10 years from now.

Also, to reply to a prior post, I have no personal interest in a movie turned into a simulator. However, I do have an innate interest in seeing the simulator model taken to its most profound manifestation, which is one of both immaculate modeling and accuracy, as well one of complete immersion. After all, a simulation should provide the simulationist with a true sense of being there and the delight of having realism delivered with a reverent enthusiasm.

[CaptainHaplo]

One more thing SH5 needs - a record (and credit) for DAMAGING an enemy ship!

[Rockin Robbins]

<pokes head up> It isn't dead yet?:doh:

[Satch]

Been playing over a week now with RFB 1.52. Cant seem to intercept a single convoy or task force. Pin pointing the lat long is extremely difficult and projecting a course of SE at 9knots on a 4 hour intercept I get there and not a ship in sight. I keep going back to Midway to refuel and then back to Honshu areas to follow a search pattern hoping to accidentally sight something with zero success.

obviously there is something I don't understand.
The radio log has no time marks on received messages, the parallel ruler isn't really a parallel ruler and I am sorely frustrated. I have no way of knowing exactly where I am other than the dot on the map.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I love the wave action. It is by far the best I've ever seen in a ship simulation.

[John Channing]

<pokes head up> It isn't dead yet?:doh:

nope

[Sailor Steve]

Been playing over a week now with RFB 1.52. Cant seem to intercept a single convoy or task force. Pin pointing the lat long is extremely difficult and projecting a course of SE at 9knots on a 4 hour intercept I get there and not a ship in sight. I keep going back to Midway to refuel and then back to Honshu areas to follow a search pattern hoping to accidentally sight something with zero success.

obviously there is something I don't understand.
The radio log has no time marks on received messages, the parallel ruler isn't really a parallel ruler and I am sorely frustrated. I have no way of knowing exactly where I am other than the dot on the map.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I love the wave action. It is by far the best I've ever seen in a ship simulation.
Probably better to post this in one of the RFB threads on the SH4 Mods page, or even start your own. This thread is for idle and useless speculation about the upcoming (or not) SH5.
:rotfl:

WELCOME ABOARD!:sunny:

[me262]

will ubisoft release it on the Wii:D

[Alex]

One more thing SH5 needs - a record (and credit) for DAMAGING an enemy ship!

Hey, not a bad idea... :hmm:

:yep: :up:

[Rockin Robbins]

<pokes head up> It still lives?:hulk:

[Jimbuna]

<pokes head up> It still lives?:hulk:

Of course it does....news is eagerly awaited by so many.

[Sailor Steve]

will ubisoft release it on the Wii:D
You know, that question was actually discussed at the Subsim Meeting. Dan asked if anybody wanted to see it on a console. I won't tell you what the consensus was, but it was somewhere in the ballpark of the answer given by General McAuliffe.

[Hylander_1314]

I like the damged ship credits idea. Realistic enviormentals, with different cloud layers, and squalls. Thunderheads and the like. If in northern waters above a certain longitude, at night seeing the aurora borealis. Also, flags that are affected by wind direction, and signal flags on ships. If the wind is strong enough to blow the smoke from the stacks at oblique angles to the direction of travel then it should blow the flag[s] that direction too.

When pulling in to port after the end of a patrol, little flags indicating ships sunk or damaged displayed from the rigging.

[Rip]

Discussion in another thread made me think about this one.

Crew fatigue should diminish more rapidly the longer you have been on patrol and recover slower. This would help discourage the refit mania that some use to push patrols beyond reasonable lengths.

[Jimbuna]

When pulling in to port after the end of a patrol, little flags indicating ships sunk or damaged displayed from the rigging.

That part has already been modded I believe....pennants from the extended periscope anyway.

[Sailor Steve]

Discussion in another thread made me think about this one.

Crew fatigue should diminish more rapidly the longer you have been on patrol and recover slower. This would help discourage the refit mania that some use to push patrols beyond reasonable lengths.
And once again Rip comes up with an idea no one else seems to have thought of. That's exactly the way to do it!:sunny:

[Orion2012]

will ubisoft release it on the Wii:D You know, that question was actually discussed at the Subsim Meeting. Dan asked if anybody wanted to see it on a console. I won't tell you what the consensus was, but it was somewhere in the ballpark of the answer given by General McAuliffe.

You mean, that's "nuts!"

Sims don't translate well to home consoles. Plus no modding.

[TinCanWolf]

I would love to see surface ships included as a playable option in the next installment. It's been so long since I've been behind the helm of a cruiser in an actual simulation it makes me want to vomit.

Hell, just updating Great Naval Battles with better graphics at this point would be a huge improvement. To an extint I don't know why no one hasn't done something along the lines of what GNBs did. BattleStations: Midway was cool, but it wasn't a simulation.

I'd love for Ubi to start a series that worked with SHIV or SHV that added surface naval combat with a multiplayer aspect. IMO they should start off the surface series with the start of the war and do the war in installments or "Episodes" like Half Life 2, where major parts of the story would be added in a linear for a small fee (19.99) as they were finished until they completed the Campaign.

[scrapser]

will ubisoft release it on the Wii:D

So what will you do with the hand held controls...hold them up on either side of your head and pretend you're looking through the periscope...then turn in a circle to pan the horizon?

[TinCanWolf]

If it worked anything like the motion controls they had for Madden you'd scuttle your boat trying to raise the periscope. :D

[msalama]

Hmmm...

Being interested in proper simulations my wishlist for SH5 would be as follows:

1) Independent control of fore and aft dive planes, individual powerplants and dive & trim tanks, including being able to use electric engines when surfaced.
2) Make the crew a bit less retarded so that they f.ex. don't report every friendly unit they see, or endlessy parrot "ship spotted" when they see a convoy.
3) Make the game a bit more scalable for people with older computers. This could f.ex. include an installation option where one could only use 256x256 textures if one wanted.

PS. Merry Xmas all :up:

[TinCanWolf]

I would definitely approve of controlling different engines separately and chosing to run the electric motors on the surface. Couldn't you do that in the Original Silent Hunter?

[Gromit]

I really need to drop by here more often. I just picked up SH IV and the expansion, and there's talk of SH V?

You guys are killin' me. :)

[CaptHawkeye]

I'm honestly amused this thread is still alive. Talk of SHV is optimistic but still pretty comical. I'd say "when hell freezes over", but I already used that for my "Jutland will be an awesome game" bet. So something more along the lines of "when Davey Jones comes out of the locker." :lol:

[tonibamestre]

I would not mind next SH to be set on the old wars,Atlantic or Pacific,BUT,this time to release the ULTIMATE NAVAL SIM implementing items like;
1- Full Global coverage and accurate SRTM topo ( both,undersurface and over,at least reach the depth of actual submarines)
2- Improved water-sea-ocean renders and effects(ship simulator 2008 stile)
3- Online downloadable real weather-sky condition,sea state slaved to that,also including real currents and streams around the world.
4- Full 3D vessels with ALL COMPARTMENTS IN (would be enough with 2 fully depicted ships for the start)
5- Walk through SS stile inside the ships,capability to climb,go down stairs,walk through corridors,and only via open access(I mean do not just traspassing walls like ghosts do).
6- Capability to improve the sim on a modular basis,add new eras,new ports and cities and NEW VESSELS.Yes,new ships could be released from Ubi improving months after months,submarines,surface units,new weapon systems.
In one word,make grow SH to a modern naval warfare simulator with all the stunning items,graphics and effects we always have wanted.


Can the Magic Kings bring that to the comunity Ubi???

Happy New Year to ALL !!!!!

[breadcatcher101]

I would like to see a Opreation Barney mission where you go through the minefields using FM sonar. The "hell's bells" effect would be quite neat.

Whatever they will have I am looking forward to it.

[TinCanWolf]

Any updates? Would love to know what direction UBi is going with this title.

[urfisch]

yepp, are there any more rumors? there must be some more information on that! there are 389 pages full of speculation and wishes, but nearly no real information on that game.

i think even the question if there IS such a follow up isnt answered, right?!

:roll:

[Red Heat]

My point of view about the new SH5 it will be about the W.W.II...again BUT from the Japanese side only, wich i belive its fair! A new game based in modern submarines it will be dificult because the "hot" tactical and strategical of the cold war and politics and secrecy envolved. :damn:

[tonibamestre]

I have no clue what is going to be about,but an early cold war theme with first boomers and hunters from both sides,more walkable compartments,ballistic weapons of course and more and new interface like realistic load and getting ready at port,a server where to join and initiate long missions based on a what if,giving main role to players imagination and cretivity................,would not be bad.
After that,other series could be designed decade by decade improving platforms,this till reach the Akula II vs Virginia. ;)

[XLjedi]

It would be nice if there was a little more openness toward the modders. Perhaps a built-in mod manager and maybe easier access to some of the gadgets.

Multi-windowed gameplay would be a huge step forward!

I'd also love it if they didn't load those nav search patterns at startup. If the game could read those text files on-the-fly I think I could use em to send attack course plots from MoBo directly to the game. I'd love that! :yep:

[FIREWALL]

My point of view about the new SH5 it will be about the W.W.II...again BUT from the Japanese side only, wich i belive its fair! A new game based in modern submarines it will be dificult because the "hot" tactical and strategical of the cold war and politics and secrecy envolved. :damn:

Yah :yep: Lets have them make a "niche" game even nicheier. :p
That ought to keep the Silent Hunter series afloat.:roll:

[XLjedi]

Hmmm...

If it's only going to be the IJN, I'm afraid they'll have a flop on their hands before it's even released.

For me personally, they could even ditch all the sub interiors and I wouldn't really care. Lot of overhead for things that don't serve much purpose anyway (I know; that one stings).

Just give me the various station screens, a bridge view, and external camera and I'm good. Make it easier to incorporate lots more playable vessels if you don't have to worry so much about all the innards.

[Blood_splat]

One thing is for sure all the bugs from SHIII/SHIV will probably be carried over to SHV lets not break tradition.:lol:

[tonibamestre]

No no no,no bugs at all!!! Just bring to SH world the George Washington,Skate and Skipjack classes with four or five 3d walkable compartments pleaaase .

[XLjedi]

Yawn... still vaporware at best. :roll:

[NEON DEON]

I heard that they were going to skip SH V and go right to SIX!

:D

[Rockin Robbins]

The thread isn't dead YET??????:rotfl:<crawls back under my rock>

[TinCanWolf]

Apparently they're not releasing any info until after HAWK is released. HAWK comes out in March.

[Jimbuna]

Apparently they're not releasing any info until after HAWK is released. HAWK comes out in March.

Should put an end to all the speculation then:lol:

[John Channing]

The thread isn't dead YET??????:rotfl:<crawls back under my rock>


http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1002526&postcount=369


JCC

[SteamWake]

Is the thread dead yet? The boys in the backroom have a running bet.

Artist : Eagles, The Title : Dirty Laundry ----------------- I make my living off the evening news Just give me something-something I can use People love it when you lose, They love dirty laundry Well, I coulda been an actor, but I wound up here I just have to look good, I dont have to be clear Come and whisper in my ear Give us dirty laundry Kick em when theyre up Kick em when theyre down Kick em when theyre up Kick em when theyre down Kick em when theyre up Kick em when theyre down Kick em when theyre up Kick em all around We got the bubble-headed-bleach-blonde who Comes on at five She can tell you bout the plane crash with a gleam In her eye Its interesting when people die- Give us dirty laundry Can we film the operation? Is the head dead yet? You know, the boys in the newsroom got a Running bet Get the widow on the set! We need dirty laundry You dont really need to find out whats going on You dont really want to know just how far its gone Just leave well enough alone Eat your dirty laundry Kick em when theyre up Kick em when theyre down Kick em when theyre up Kick em when theyre down Kick em when theyre up Kick em when theyre down Kick em when theyre stiff Kick em all around Dirty little secrets Dirty little lies We got our dirty little fingers in everybodys pie We love to cut you down to size We love dirty laundry We can do the innuendo We can dance and sing When its said and done we havent told you a thing We all know that crap is king Give us dirty laundry!

[urfisch]

Apparently they're not releasing any info until after HAWK is released. HAWK comes out in March.
Should put an end to all the speculation then:lol:

:nope:

haha. thats not funny. anyone must have the contacts to get some infos on that...cant be that hard, neither impossible.

;)

[SilentAngel]

I would like playable surface vessels, as I served on a destroyer myself, but then again it woudnt be silent hunter anymore:roll:

[Torplexed]

I would like playable surface vessels, as I served on a destroyer myself, but then again it woudnt be silent hunter anymore:roll:
Yeah....it would be Destroyer Command 2! :up: But I highly doubt there will ever be a sequel to that 2002 release.

[Jimbuna]

Apparently they're not releasing any info until after HAWK is released. HAWK comes out in March.
Should put an end to all the speculation then:lol:

:nope:

haha. thats not funny. anyone must have the contacts to get some infos on that...cant be that hard, neither impossible.

;)

Well I've been saying WWII era since the first mention of SH5 last year :yep:

The onle uncertainty for me is which theatre/theatres and playable sides :hmm:

[TinCanWolf]

I would like playable surface vessels, as I served on a destroyer myself, but then again it woudnt be silent hunter anymore:roll:
Yeah....it would be Destroyer Command 2! :up: But I highly doubt there will ever be a sequel to that 2002 release.

Isn't it kind of odd to look back on the game fondly because it was the last true WWII surface simulation? I mean, I remember playing it and being so incredibly disappointed. The game nearly drove me to break my keyboard on several occasions, and the linear campaign didn't help either.

Silent Hunter II and Destroyer Command never lived up to anything near what we thought they would be, and it's probably one of the major reasons I stopped going to the WPL and EGL forums.

[DarkFish]

I would like playable surface vessels, as I served on a destroyer myself, but then again it woudnt be silent hunter anymore:roll:Check The Surface Warfare Super-Mod (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=144946), It'll be released around may and will feature all kinds of surface warfare, including DDs.

[elanaiba]

I am still amazed not one of the Subsim meet guys said anything, given that each of them got a preview package including a 1 hr limited version of the game.

Of course I hid them in their luggage but I'm sure one of them did find it by now...

[Dowly]

I am still amazed not one of the Subsim meet guys said anything, given that each of them got a preview package including a 1 hr limited version of the game.

Of course I hid them in their luggage but I'm sure one of them did find it by now...
Time to dig this oldie back :har: (again, no pun intended, just a joke, came around this pic today as I was going thru my PB acount)
http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee274/Finnish_Ferret/field-of-dreams-DVDcover.jpg

[Jimbuna]

I am still amazed not one of the Subsim meet guys said anything, given that each of them got a preview package including a 1 hr limited version of the game.

Of course I hid them in their luggage but I'm sure one of them did find it by now...

The only disc I come across whilst unpacking was of you and Steve in Neals ermm...office :oops:

:rotfl:

[Rip]

I am still amazed not one of the Subsim meet guys said anything, given that each of them got a preview package including a 1 hr limited version of the game.

Of course I hid them in their luggage but I'm sure one of them did find it by now...
It was supposed to stop after an hour? Guess they forgot to limit mine.


:woot::salute::lurk:

[Rip]

I am still amazed not one of the Subsim meet guys said anything, given that each of them got a preview package including a 1 hr limited version of the game.

Of course I hid them in their luggage but I'm sure one of them did find it by now...
The only disc I come across whilst unpacking was of you and Steve in Neals ermm...office :oops:

:rotfl:


I threw away all the disks for the guys who failed to show at the cleanup. :o:O::-j

[Jimbuna]

I am still amazed not one of the Subsim meet guys said anything, given that each of them got a preview package including a 1 hr limited version of the game.

Of course I hid them in their luggage but I'm sure one of them did find it by now...
The only disc I come across whilst unpacking was of you and Steve in Neals ermm...office :oops:

:rotfl:


I threw away all the disks for the guys who failed to show at the cleanup. :o:O::-j

Some folk were a little tied up sampling the local hostelry http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v499/c_jane24/Smileys/lager.gif

Besides.....can you imagine the uproar if a Grey Wolf was found anywhere near a fleet boat http://www.carforums.net/images/smilies/boxing.gif

[XLjedi]

I am still amazed not one of the Subsim meet guys said anything, given that each of them got a preview package including a 1 hr limited version of the game.

Of course I hid them in their luggage but I'm sure one of them did find it by now...

I couldn't make it to the meet, but I'd be happy to post a response about it if you send me one. :D

[Rockin Robbins]

Surely this thread must die! :/\\chop

[Rockin Robbins]

Besides.....can you imagine the uproar if a Grey Wolf was found anywhere near a fleet boat http://www.carforums.net/images/smilies/boxing.gif
Hey! I found the schiesshaus in a U-Boat and lived to tell the tale. And I rolled out the red carpet to help Penelope drive a fleet boat. That gives you guys a free pass!:woot:

[Schroeder]

Hey! I found the schiesshaus in a U-Boat and lived to tell the tale.:woot: Never heard the word Schiesshaus....;):know:

[FIREWALL]

I'll keep this thread alive. :yep:

I'll just tell a big, convinceing lie with lots of details. :har:

[Jimbuna]

I'll keep this thread alive. :yep:

I'll just tell a big, convinceing lie with lots of details. :har:

Could well be a few folk suprised by the outcome http://imgcash3.imageshack.us/img412/4774/thumbsuplargeon1.gif

[Deep Source]

dreams for SH5

Germany, Americam-Britnish and Japanese Campaing (Italian sub's Bonus is welcome), All Seas :rock:

The best formula for SH5 = (SH3+GWX).[SH4(Missions+Graphics+Interactive Bases)]
Friend SDK

[Satch]

I'll keep this thread alive. :yep:

I'll just tell a big, convincing lie with lots of details. :har:

That sounds just like the U.S. Senate, House of Representatives and the Office of the President

[Satch]

Hey! I found the schiesshaus in a U-Boat and lived to tell the tale.:woot: Never heard the word Schiesshaus....;):know: It's German for chit house...

[Capt. Shark Bait]

:sunny: :sunny: :sunny: :sunny: :sunny: :sunny:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v27/badaboom/SH4Img2008-03-22_185557_276.jpg

if only, but i doubt it:cry:

saw on the site it's now Q309

[rubenandthejets]

Wish list:
*All the subs of all the major navies playable (mentioned before I know but how sweet would that be)
*Making all the land assets interactive-if the bloody coastal bunkers can shell me, I want to be able to shell them back! Dropping a few rounds into the oil tanks at Kiel / Scapa Flow / Yokoska / Taranto and getting a nice little fireworks show for the effort.
*Wolfpacks (where appropriate).
*Real Interactive campaigns-If the only two Yamato class ships get sunk, I don't want to come across them again. This would also mean that the AI would follow the broad strategic direction of each nation so that once the war started I wouldn't know exactly what would happen. Maybe the Japanese would aim for their knockout blow around Dutch Harbour or off the coast of Townsville.
*all major aircraft modelled-I couldn't believe stock SH4 didn't have that ubiquitous workhorse the PBY Catalina.
*Ubisoft incorporates the best of the mods and pay the mod developers for providing the polish (in some cases the nuts and bolts) that makes the game worth playing.

[A Very Super Market]

All your other ideas are fine, I guess, but the interactive campaign is really asking to much. Ask yourself these questions

Do you see any land battles?
Does the overall change in the war situation affect anything other than difficulty?
Do you want freak accidents to permanently cripple your country, and therefore your game?
Do the developers have the time and budget to develop such a complex AI?
Do you want to completely eliminate possible scenarios with the sinking of a capital ship?

I could go on...

The bottom line is, it's way too complex. Let's say the Japanese lose their carriers before 1942. What do they do now? Do you have any idea? What if the game decides that Japan would go on a massive battleship offensive and invade the west. Obviously, that situation would be absurd. A more reasonable expectation would be Japan going more on the defensive, earlier on, and now you have to model the AI of countless generals with differing opinions. Are they assaulting Guam, the Marianas Islands, New Guinea, etc.? The whole thing would be almost impossible, and if done, would be a considerable drag on release time.

[gmuno]

Hey! I found the schiesshaus in a U-Boat and lived to tell the tale.:woot: Never heard the word Schiesshaus....;):know: It's German for chit house...

Not exactly... :DL In German it's really spelled Scheisshaus. :03:

[magicsub2]

that guy who said interactive harbours is right!

you can have land battles, u boats had them historically, the shelling of some factory by a uboat did happen, (some guy left the barrel wiping thing in it and the gun killed 2 people on the u boat.)

all the different theaters would be cool and a campaign from 1914 to 1945 would be cool. this game needs blood and all playable submarines, including italian and japanese and the barely mentioned british submarines (they are at the back of most naval conflicts)

but is sh5 confirmed yet????????????????

[gmuno]

Only in some dreams.

[magicsub2]

man this could be great!:up:

[Rockin Robbins]

Hey! I found the schiesshaus in a U-Boat and lived to tell the tale.:woot: Never heard the word Schiesshaus....;):know: It's German for chit house...
Not exactly... :DL In German it's really spelled Scheisshaus. :03:
SH5 should have a German spellchecker.:woot:

[Uber Gruber]

I'd like SH5 to have loads of bugs, require at least four patches and not be much of an improvement over previous versions....except for the explosions, they should be rendered in the latest GFX technology.

:arrgh!:

[Dread Knot]

I'd like SH5 to have loads of bugs, require at least four patches and not be much of an improvement over previous versions....except for the explosions, they should be rendered in the latest GFX technology.

:arrgh!:

That's about the only thing you can count on. :rotfl: That and the countless complaints that will crop up shortly after the release by dissappointed players about how these crooks will never get my money again, and how could they dare put this unfinished product on the market.

[mcarlsonus]

During Career: if the game video states US subs should run a barrier patrol around (Solomons, Gilberts, etc.), DON'T send me to the Sea of Okhotsk!

I don't care if it costs Renown, but some attempt at "Warp" gameplay, ala "Silent Service," should be made (go directly to patrol area). Even with time compression, getting to and from the map target is FAR too time consuming! Also, like "Silent Service," how about a provision for getting a tow back to port should one run out of go-juice somewhere near home?

Related to above: if I've a boat with range limitations (like the XVIII), and no accessible refueling/refit points, don't send me on missions thousands and thousands of miles away!

PBY's -- YES! I notice there's one in the splash video, but no where in the game. AND, speaking of aircraft... remove planes like the Brewster Buffalos that occur everywhere in the U-Boat Missions and never attack. They do nothing but slow down the game and serve NO purpose!

A more comprehensive game manual'd be nice - even if it's only a PDF on the CD/DVD!

More realistic US torpedos! One used to be able to do "break her back" shots in SH3 with the German torps as they ran at the chosen depth setting and the ship keel depths listed in the Recognition Manual could be used as a reference. I'm aware that US torps ran deeper than they should've in the early part of the war, but by late '42, this problem had pretty much been solved. In other words, torp run depth would be more historically accurate.

I'm assuming, of course, that any further SH Releases will still be in the WW2 timeframe....

[Arclight]

This thing is immortal...

:hmmm:

It's a werewolf!!! http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj2/EZatHome/avatar117434_2.gif

[Kapteeni Rantala]

If Silent Hunter 5 ever comes, it should be about the Italian submarines of World War II.

32 Italian submarines took part in the Battle of the of the Atlantic - operating in a very wide area ranging from North Atlantic (all the way to US East Coast and Caribbean) to South Atlantic (West/South African coast and the South American coast) - sinking 600,000 tons of shipping, with an average of about 17,750 tons of shipping each, a slightly better average than the German boats operating in the Atlantic.

The best Italian submarine of WWII was Leonardo da Vinci, which sank 120,250 tons - more than the best American submarine (the Flasher with 100,230 tons) and more than the best British submarine (the Upholder with 97,720 tons).

Also carrying out operations that some would think to be beyond the "stereotypical Italians of World War II", the Italian underwater servicemen achieved great fame in Mediterranean.

[A Very Super Market]

The Italians were a poor land army. Their artillery was average, if only due to their professionalism, their equipment was just as outdated as the other branches. Their navy would have been better, but the general turmoil in Italy prevented real progress, and their otherwise fine ships ended up with poor fire control, among othere things, and the majority of their aircraft were average-below average.

Just a post, I don't have much else to say. Though I don't think a game centered on Italian subs would sell very well. Included as an option, and it would be excellent. Brit subs, maybe. They were similar to the fleet boats, but tended to fight in poor sub areas (Med, North Sea). They're also ugly as sin.

[TheSamuraiJedi]

Am I the only one who would want a return to WW1? Think about it..British D and E class boats vs. early U-Boats in 1914?.....:hmmm:

[Kapteeni Rantala]

Ridiculous generalization about the Italian military.

[A Very Super Market]

My post about the Italians in WWII being poorly equipped? I don't mind criticism, what have I got wrong?

[Jimbuna]

The Italians were certainly better equipped than the Abyssinians (bows and arrows) they fought prior to WWII :hmmm:

Ethiopians
Main article: Ethiopian Order of Battle Second Italo-Abyssinian War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopian_Order_of_Battle_Second_Italo-Abyssinian_War)
With an attack appearing inevitable, Emperor Haile Selassie (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haile_Selassie) ordered a general mobilization of the Army of the Ethiopian Empire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Army_of_the_Ethiopian_Empire). His new recruits consisted of around 500,000 men, many of whom were armed with nothing more than spears and bows. Other soldiers carried more modern weapons, including rifles, but many of these were from before 1900 and were badly outdated.
According to Italian estimates,[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Second_Italo-Abyssinian_War#1935_Italian_intelligence_estimate_ of_the_Ethiopian_provinces_and_their_forces) on the eve of hostilities the Ethiopians had an army of 350,000-760,000 men. But only about one-quarter of this army had any kind of military training and the men were armed with 400,000 rifles of every type and in every kind of condition.[13] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_invasion_of_Abyssinia#cite_note-Barker-29-12)
In general, the Ethiopian armies were poorly equipped. They had about 200 antiquated pieces of artillery (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artillery) mounted on rigid gun carriages. There were also about 50 light and heavy anti-aircraft guns (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-aircraft_gun) (20 mm Oerlikons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oerlikon_20_mm_cannon), 75 mm Schneiders (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schneider_Electric), and Vickers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vickers)). The Ethiopians even had some Ford (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford) truck-based armored cars (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armored_car_(military)) and a small number of Fiat 3000 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_3000) World War I (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_I)-era tanks.
The serviceable portion of the Imperial Ethiopian Air Force (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopian_Air_Force) included three outmoded biplanes.[14] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_invasion_of_Abyssinia#cite_note-Barker-57-13) A few transport aircraft were also acquired between 1934 and 1935 for ambulance work. The air force was commanded by a French pilot, Andre Maillet (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Andre_Maillet&action=edit&redlink=1).
The best Ethiopian units were Haile Selassie (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haile_Selassie)'s "Imperial Guard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kebur_Zabangna)" (Kebur Zabangna). These troops were well-trained and better equipped than the other Ethiopian troops. But the Imperial Guard wore a distinctive greenish-khaki uniform of the Belgian Army (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgian_Land_Component) which stood out from the white cotton cloak (shamma) worn by most Ethiopian fighters. Unfortunately for its wearers, the shama proved to be an excellent target.[13] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_invasion_of_Abyssinia#cite_note-Barker-29-12) The Ras (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopian_aristocratic_and_court_titles), the "heads" or the commanders of the Ethiopian armies, ranged from very good to far less than very good.
[/URL]
Italians

Main article: [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_Order_of_Battle_Second_Italo-Abyssinian_War"]Italian Order of Battle Second Italo-Abyssinian War (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/)
In April 1935, the build-up of the Italian Royal Army (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Italian_Army) (Regio Esercito (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regio_Esercito)) and the Royal Air Force (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regia_Aeronautica) (Regia Aeronautica (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regia_Aeronautica)) in East Africa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Africa) started in earnest. In a few months, eight regular, mountain, and blackshirt infantry divisions arrived in Eritrea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eritrea) and four regular infantry divisions arrived in Italian Somaliland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_Somaliland). These units alone represented 680,000 soldiers. This number does not include the Italian units already in East Africa, colonial units, or units arriving during the war. For example, there were 400,000 Italian soldiers in Eritrea and 220,000 in Italian Somaliland before the new divisions arrived. The huge army forming up in East Africa also included a great number of logistical and support units.
The equipment for the build-up alone included 6,000 machine guns (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine_gun), 2,000 pieces of artillery, 595 tankettes, and 390 aircraft. Before these arrived, the Italians had 3,300 machine guns, 275 artillery pieces, 200 tankettess, and 205 aircraft. Thanks to the Royal Navy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regia_Marina) (Regia Marina (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regia_Marina)), the Italians had tons of ammunition, food, and other necessary supplies. The Italians also had motor vehicles to move supplies and troops while the Ethiopians carried supplies in horse drawn carts.[15] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_invasion_of_Abyssinia#cite_note-14)
During this campaign the Italians placed considerable reliance on their Royal Corps of Colonial Troops (Regio Corpo Truppe Coloniali) - indigenous regiments recruited from the Italian colonial posessions of Eritrea, Somalia and Libya. The most effective of these Italian officered units were the Eritrean infantry askaris (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Askaris) who were often used as advance troops and suffered heavy casualties accordingly. Other RCTC units employed in the invasion of Ethiopia included Somali dubats (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dubats) (irregular frontier troops), Eritrean cavalry (Penne di Falco) and artillery, regular Arab-Somali infantry and artillery, and Libyan infantry [16] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_invasion_of_Abyssinia#cite_note-15).
In addition to their own colonial troops from Eritrea, Somalia, and Libya, the Italians had a variety of local semi-independent "allies" who fought for them. In the north, the Azebu Galla (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oromo) were one of several groups induced to fight for the Italians. For many reasons, the Galla were willing to sweep down on the fleeing Ethiopians. In the south, Sultan Olol Diinle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olol_Diinle) commanded a personal army that advanced into the northern Ogaden alongside the forces of Italian Colonel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonel) Luigi Frusci (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luigi_Frusci). The Sultan was motivated by his desire to take back lands that the Ethiopians had taken from him. The Italian colonial forces even included some Yemenis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yemen) recruited from across the Gulf of Aden (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Aden).

[A Very Super Market]

It's all relative, man!

Against similarily equipped Greece, the Italians faltered. I think any European nation could have conquered Abyssinia

[Kapteeni Rantala]

The Italian invasion of Greece did not fail because of "inferior Italian military" - it failed because it was poorly planned and organized due to Mussolini doing the top decissions over it.

Most of the stuff concerning italians role in WWII is related to 1940-1941 campaigns in North Africa and Greece, but ignores all the rest.

This is one of the many cases of "poorly Italians" showing.

During the Soviet operation on the Eastern Front which eventually led to the German VI. Army being encircled, to the north of the Soviet breakthrough, the Italian Alpini Corps held firm against Soviets attacks - but it didn't matter, because subsequently the Soviets broke through the Hungarian lines to the north of Italians.

The Alpini Corps, then, was surrounded because of breakthroughs to the north and south (Romania lines). However, it managed to break trough the Soviet encirclement; fighting its way out as a coherent fighting unit in a spectacular display of bravery under adverse conditions. Some units, like the Cuneense Division, sacrificed themselves so that other units could break through and escape. It had many similarities to the retreat of the USMC at Chosin Reservoir in the Korean War. Although it suffered horrible casualties from the weather and the Soviets, the Alpini Corps did in fact break through the encirclement still in military order - though it was wrecked as a fighting unit and had to be withdrawn.

The feats of the Alpini Corps, especially the Tridentina Division, were really incredible, as were those of some of the attached units, like the Monte Cervino Ski Battalion and the XXX Assault Engineer Battalion.

Radio Moscow reported: "The only enemy army undefeated around Stalingrad is the Italian Army".

[A Very Super Market]

Right, I forgot about the Alpinis. But they were a small force compared to the rest. Italy sent their best troops to the Eastern front, and there they did well. I don't expect any less really, since the Alpini are almost commandos. But what of the regular army?

[Dread Knot]

This thread has gone OT..... :)

[magicsub2]

yeah, the campaign should have a few playable italian submarines, imagine silent hunter like il2, 300 playable subs!

the subs on my wishlist:
all german, american and other nations during world war 1 subs,
all nations world war 2 subs
and as an easter egg, the turtle and some high tech russian akula and typhoon subs!

also needs secret submarine missions: carrying uranium, blowing up dock facillitys, calling in airraids, using experimental technology like the v2 and artillery rockets, dropping of spies and commandos, (that you get to play as!)

also PROPER SCENERY, i mean WTF was UBI thinking when they released a game with the coastline of sh3??? all jagged! i want cliffs! buildings! destroyable scenery (for airraids)

i hope it has these thinga

[Jimbuna]

How many people do you reckon will have the ultra high level spec rig that will be able to cope with all that? :hmmm:

[Torplexed]

How many people do you reckon will have the ultra high level spec rig that will be able to cope with all that? :hmmm:
Or are willing to wait half a decade to do all the research? Not a lot of existing non-German or American WW2 submarines left to photograph and use for interior reference as they did with SH3 and 4. Certainly, no Japanese or Italian ones left besides midget subs that I know of. Yeah, you can work from photographs and blueprints but that takes time and isn't always comprehensive. If they're gonna 3-D render that many subs in an economical manner they better forget about anything but generic interiors.

[Jimbuna]

How many people do you reckon will have the ultra high level spec rig that will be able to cope with all that? :hmmm:
Or are willing to wait half a decade to do all the research? Not a lot of existing non-German or American WW2 submarines left to photograph and use for interior reference as they did with SH3 and 4. Certainly, no Japanese or Italian ones left besides midget subs that I know of. Yeah, you can work from photographs and blueprints but that takes time and isn't always comprehensive. If they're gonna 3-D render that many subs in an economical manner they better forget about anything but generic interiors.

Either that or do it and pitch the game at a price it won't sell at to try and recover their costs :hmmm:

[Torplexed]

I've noticed that Keltos who has been working on a Japanese submarine mod, has even with unlimited time, volunteers and the full power of the internet, been having a heck of a time finding decent blueprints of IJN submarines. Now imagine doing that under a deadline and a budget. :cry:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=146720

[theluckyone17]

Heh. You wanna talk hogging system resources?

I had a thought the other day. Get a bunch of engineers together on retainer. Take all these blueprints that must still exist of subs and targets (if it's not a sub, it's a target :D). Model the interior structure. Each bulkhead. Each weld. Each bolt. We know the approximate strengths of each item, of each material.

Now, someone out there's gotta have done some research on how WW2 torpedoes explode, how the explosion is shaped, how much force in which directions at which time, etc. Slap that into the sim. Do the same for DC's.

Toss in some basic fluid dynamics.

Oh, yeah... can't forget about fires. Simulate those, too... and how the heat deforms and weakens materials at various temperatures.

Damage Control. Do some research on how much effect DC would have on floods, fires, structural damage. Model it.

Slap all of the above together, and my processor may end up in pool of melted slag... but my dreams display ships actually sinking realistically.

[Rockin Robbins]

<crawls out from under my rock, scans 360º) It still lives!!?http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/RockinRobbins13/smileys/hypnoquestion.gif

[Jimbuna]

http://img355.imageshack.us/img355/821/discozombievs0.gif

[Enigma]

As much as I love the subs, I'd like to see the developers of Silent Hunter to take on WWII surface ships. I'd like to stand on the bridge of a destroyer and aim my guns on land. I'd like to support landing craft fir the Invasion. I'd like to hunt U-boats and be on the other end of a depth charging for a change :yeah:

[Torplexed]

As much as I love the subs, I'd like to see the developers of Silent Hunter to take on WWII surface ships. I'd like to stand on the bridge of a destroyer and aim my guns on land. I'd like to support landing craft fir the Invasion. I'd like to hunt U-boats and be on the other end of a depth charging for a change :yeah:

In other words...Destroyer Command 2. Might also allow for multiplay where we can actaully battle each other instead of these cooperative mulitplayer battles we have now.

[John Channing]

<crawls out from under my rock, scans 360º) It still lives!!?http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/RockinRobbins13/smileys/hypnoquestion.gif


The tradition continues!

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1002526&postcount=369

[XLjedi]

yeah, the campaign should have a few playable italian submarines, imagine silent hunter like il2, 300 playable subs!

the subs on my wishlist:
all german, american and other nations during world war 1 subs,
all nations world war 2 subs
and as an easter egg, the turtle and some high tech russian akula and typhoon subs!

also needs secret submarine missions: carrying uranium, blowing up dock facillitys, calling in airraids, using experimental technology like the v2 and artillery rockets, dropping of spies and commandos, (that you get to play as!)

also PROPER SCENERY, i mean WTF was UBI thinking when they released a game with the coastline of sh3??? all jagged! i want cliffs! buildings! destroyable scenery (for airraids)

i hope it has these thinga

Land is irrelevent in a submarine sim. Perhaps they'll included that in "Destroyer Command II - USCG on Patrol"

...and you forgot the Nautilus easter egg. I mean the JV version, not the US nuke.

[tater]

I'm more concerned with things like a better paradigm for the player as the skipper. I want the plotter to plot given only the data I give him from the periscope, or that he could reasonably (and realistically) get from sonar/radar/etc.

Not updated in real time, moving on the map by magic. I want an observation, and mark on the map. Another piece of data, then a mark on the map, and a line drawn between them.

Also, I'd like to see zig-zag behavior as part of the AI. Not "constant helming" when the sub is detected, real zig zags. There should be a text file with descriptions of different available patterns (RL ZZs were complex, not /\/\/\/\/, and then they get applied to waypoint groups as needed.

[Sailor Steve]

:yep:

I've been rooting for something like that all along - sonar lines only move when the soundman calls out the new position, only the ships you identify and pinpoint end up on the map etc.

I would also like to see is the attack map be oriented toward the bow of the boat, not true north. The plotting crew will be drawing what you tell them relative to you, not the outside world. Also the boat should always stay at the center of the attack map - not move across it.

[tater]

With realistic plotting (as I outlined above) there would be no attack map.

Nothing on any map would move (animated) at all.

Your sub would be periodically updated, but would not "move" along the map, you'd hit "update" and you'd see the animated hand of the plotter avatar draw in the sub, or perhaps just move the range/bearing tool over the current position.

There would be a dot (range/bearing tool) where you are NOW ("now" defined as when you select the map, or "ask to update map"). There would be lines behind you (which you'd have in you log, forever). Not a curvy line, either. Straight line plots from the time you turned.

No magical GPS system.

I'd also build-in a more realistic navigation system. No, I'm not going to shoot positions with a sextant, I simply don't have the time for that. What I would like, though, is for my position on the world map to be somewhat uncertain. A daily exercise would be for my junior officers to calculate where we were. Have the AI do it, and the results might have an error bar that fluctuates with crew skill. If I'm in a storm for days, I should be VERY careful about steering near land.

[CaptHawkeye]

The issue is how do you make your game *not* just turn into a giant group of spreadsheets? Realistic navigation might be fun but that's something to be left up to the options menu of course. I generally reference B-17 2's navigation game play which was simple and consequential at the same time. The Mighty Eighth did a lot of things I frankly wish more sims would do. Things that are inconceivable to fanhards. Ya know, a streamlined interface, a wide list of adjustable realism settings, an intelligent use of crew training and station management to keep the player active even in downtime etc etc.

[Arclight]

"I am prepared to go anywhere, provided it be forward"
D. Livingstone

[TinCanWolf]

The issue is how do you make your game *not* just turn into a giant group of spreadsheets? Realistic navigation might be fun but that's something to be left up to the options menu of course. I generally reference B-17 2's navigation game play which was simple and consequential at the same time. The Mighty Eighth did a lot of things I frankly wish more sims would do. Things that are inconceivable to fanhards. Ya know, a streamlined interface, a wide list of adjustable realism settings, an intelligent use of crew training and station management to keep the player active even in downtime etc etc.

Oh man, B-17 was brutal at times. When you'd get near the target and had to go back around because you couldn't see the target. That was agonizing.

[joegrundman]

I'd also build-in a more realistic navigation system. No, I'm not going to shoot positions with a sextant, I simply don't have the time for that.
i think a fully developed navigation system would be fine, including sextant if you wanted to do it yourself, but getting a fix should also be obtainable by asking the Nav officer and the fix would vary in accuracy depending on weather and perhaps navigator experience.

If it's overcast for a week, you can expect to become lost

and obviously it should be a checkable option in the realism section. GPS fine for those who need it

[A Very Super Market]

That would actually be pretty awesome, though I never understood the sextant. Or math, for that matter.

[Max2147]

Scaleable realism is a must for any sim. I think SH4 actually did a pretty decent job of that. For every fanatic who wants to line up everything perfectly on his TDC and know only what the actual skipper on a WWII sub would know, there are a bunch of amateurs like me who would miss every shot and stop playing the game if it weren't for our color changing arrows.

[skookum]

I would also like to see is the attack map be oriented toward the bow of the boat, not true north. The plotting crew will be drawing what you tell them relative to you, not the outside world. Also the boat should always stay at the center of the attack map - not move across it.

All maps and plotting in RL is usually done north up, JSYK.


I'm with Tater, no moving contacts, only Updated fixes on a map. I'd like to be able to make notes, such as time and estimated speed on the map too. But most of all, it would be nice to see RL navaids like lighthouses and some major topographical features noted accurately so one can navigate visually. Having a workng rendition of a sight compass would make the game for me, though in RL, I think they used the periscope. I think they should increase the resolution and accuracy of the textures on the compasses modelled in the game.

[Kapitan_Phillips]

I dont care when SH5 comes out.

The transition between SH3 and SH4 blew my mind. I dread to think what SH4 to SH5 could blow.


Wait what? :timeout:

[Seminole]

So...what is the latest dope on SH5? Was it a hoax or is it actually being considered?

[Arclight]

As far as I know it's being worked on, and that's about it. No details or release date.

Personally, I hope they take another 2 years or so and deliver a polished product.:up:

The latest thing from Ubisoft (Montreal) is Far Cry 2, and... :nope:

[Seminole]

Thanks!...that was about how I had it figured. I thought that 1st quarter 09 release was far fetched from the start.

For we sub simmers though, even a two year wait between releases is "easy time."

[Rockin Robbins]

Bah humbug! I find myself in agreement with Kapitan_Phillips. SH5 will be a total rewrite of the game system, fixing and introducing many features and losing many great things that we have working well now. The revolutionary method of making simulations, because brand new releases are the only way the game company makes money, is just not appropriate for a simulation, which has to evolve in order to continually be fixing the defects, introducing new features and eliminating the defects.

Throwing out all the good work done so far is just a foolish way to do business. Losing your dev team between games and starting fresh with people who don't understand the system and break everything (think SH4), is stupid. Requiring a whole new, built from the ground up, simulator every two years is wasteful, too expensive, doesn't produce an income stream to fix problems, throws developers away just when they could be building something great and greatly profitable, and abuses simulation players, who are really pining for something truly excellent.

Releasing SH5 will do nothing to produce the excellence we crave. Only a revamping of the way game companies make money from simulations will do the trick. It would increase game company profits, give us an excellent and evolving game, fix multiplayer issues, make updating simple, and eliminate global warming and war forever!:woot:

In the meantime, I suppose I'll take whatever this clueless company makes, which are merely the best sub simulators that presently exist. They are just a pale parody of what is possible.

[Stealhead]

Rockin is right no one game(I call it game sorry a sim is a million dollar system like what the airlines and military has that is not what any "sim" on a home pc is.) is going to be perfect as they are a money making indusrty so they have deadlines and all many of you seem to blame the devs for issues i think more often than they would have loved to have fixed things but thier big boss said no. a ame is like most other things inlife a compromise. I love my wife but i dont always like things that she says or wants me to do but I dont really complain about it i just say yes dear and keep my mouth shut.;) It would go well for games as well you know they dont give damn what any of us think should or should not be done they sell and we will buy it sooner or later. Also they cant make a game have what each person likes I wont say what ones but some of the ideas you guys have posted i think are pretty stupid and others silly others sound boring and pointless to me. There is no Cinderellia glass slipper Silent Hunter for each of us out there as there is no such thing for most anything else.

[oscar19681]

I just hope the sim will not be centered around WWI subs. I just really think that the market for this is so absoluty small that it would destroy the whole silent hunter franchise. Moving to the nuclear submarines and the cold war would be the most logical step to take. It could be a fictional ww3 scenaro .

[Seminole]

WWIII?...you loose your nukes and vaporize the entire civilian population of the whole NATO alliance..then what?

Cruise around submerged until you die eventually from starvation?...unable to surface because of the fallout and nuclear winter.

There is a market for race car sims so maybe someone somewhere would want this. Not me though....:hmmm: :03:

[AVGWarhawk]

I just hope the sim will not be centered around WWI subs. I just really think that the market for this is so absoluty small that it would destroy the whole silent hunter franchise. Moving to the nuclear submarines and the cold war would be the most logical step to take. It could be a fictional ww3 scenaro .

It would be cool to have a mix of WW1 and WW2 subs. Cold War would just not hold my interest only because it is fictional. I played 688(I think that was the name) and I lost interest in under an hour. Sending off nukes at targets I can not see other than on a map. Just did not work. The nuke subs are cool and all but replay value would be limited for me only because it is fictional.

[Dread Knot]

I think any future subsim would have to be set in WW2 to survive in the market. The problem with WWI is dealing with all the historical restrictions where Imperial German subs bounced between restricted and unrestricted sub warfare, having to search ships, let the crew evacuate before sinking, etc. It was also a war in which the biggest sub-killer historically was mines and nets. I think that'd squelch player interest when a promising career is dashed in an instant by something you can't really defend against.

The problem with modern subs is there is no compelling back story. You can make up all the hypothetical scenarios you want but then you can't read the various historical accounts to keep your interest going. Tom Clancy is good but it's still just fiction. Going with straight Cold War scenarios like tracking enemy subs and playing 'hole in the water' isn't going to hold player interest either. Outside of torpedoing the cruiser General Belgrano and a few other incidents there just aren't many actual historical combat situations.

[Arclight]

@ Rockin

Wouldn't it be possible that they take what works well now, perhaps spy a few features from TMO, RFB and others and carry that over to a new engine? They have 3d models for all kinds of ships for several navies. Refine the models, add some new ones for more diversity, recode and refine mechanics and plug it into the new engine and you have a combo of SH 3 & 4 (oversimplified yes, but you catch my drift). All new code doesn't necessasarily mean all new bugs.

Look at parts 3 & 4 as steps to building a truly admirable SH5, give these guys some credit for what they accomplished. Look at all the people enjoying the games on here, doesn't that mean anything? Personally I think the fact that one of the guys involved in developing it came to a meet and actually listened to what people had to say is pretty bleeping admirable.

Give them the benefit of the doubt, at least for now. If it turns out a bug-ridden POS, you can always say "I knew it all along". IMHO better then having to swallow your words. :03:

[joeljansson]

whats sh5 gonna be about? i hope german like sh3(never played it but it looks fun) but better grapichs:D

[tater]

I won't buy it if it's u-boats. Not unless/until someone mods in USN, RN, or even Dutch subs. I'd play those.

[JALU3]

Why don't they have a sub game then that allows for all major submarine forces of WWII. They've already mapped out routes, land features, and sea depths. Imagine getting to start out of New London, training in the Carribean, sailing up for San Diego, then to the war. Or being able to do a mission where you are in the IJN and transporting much needed technical things back to Kure from Germany. Or being in a RN sub and helping escort a convoy to Malta.

[AVGWarhawk]

Why don't they have a sub game then that allows for all major submarine forces of WWII. They've already mapped out routes, land features, and sea depths. Imagine getting to start out of New London, training in the Carribean, sailing up for San Diego, then to the war. Or being able to do a mission where you are in the IJN and transporting much needed technical things back to Kure from Germany. Or being in a RN sub and helping escort a convoy to Malta.


Exactly, the foundation is already there! Historical research is done. Both games culminate into a total layout of the WORLD!:D Would be nice to have some other subs from other nations:yep:

[tater]

Sort of. It's not like the stock campaign (SH4 for sure, and presumably SH3) is useful.

[JALU3]

Hire some of the better moders as part time contractors, I am sure that this would help the development team do things that they would find tedious, but the gaming community find as intregal. That way those little things that us players like, are in the base package, and in the end, makes less work for modders to do from the base package.

[Jimbuna]

I won't buy it if it's u-boats. Not unless/until someone mods in USN, RN, or even Dutch subs. I'd play those.

I'd buy it regardless....hopefully it will encourage further development.

[Diopos]

Hire some of the better moders as part time contractors, I am sure that this would help the development team do things that they would find tedious, but the gaming community find as intregal. That way those little things that us players like, are in the base package, and in the end, makes less work for modders to do from the base package.

Why hire them when they do their modding for free anyway? In fact an active "modding community" has the opposite effect in the managment of such projects, ie "why spent money/time in redesigning/finetuning/doublechecking the game engine when the modders will do that for free and keep the game alive for (possibly) years after the initial release?" I think the basic parameters the publishers are interested in are, graphics, ways of attracting casual players and time of release. Most "dedicated" sub simmers will buy it, anyway (or that's what they think at least!). Keep in mind that as things are now there are not many game publishers involved in sub sims so they're not under any pressure by the competition eh!

[Kaleun]

just seen on the Subsim new page

http://www.subsim.com/nucleus/index.php?blogid=4

Silent Hunter 5UbisoftAll new code; U-boats in the AtlanticQ4 09Underway


Guess someone thinks or knows it gonna be U-boats again!!

Kaleun

[Alex]

I'd buy it regardless....hopefully it will encourage further development.

Ditto ! :)

[Rockin Robbins]

@ Rockin

Wouldn't it be possible that they take what works well now, perhaps spy a few features from TMO, RFB and others and carry that over to a new engine? They have 3d models for all kinds of ships for several navies. Refine the models, add some new ones for more diversity, recode and refine mechanics and plug it into the new engine and you have a combo of SH 3 & 4 (oversimplified yes, but you catch my drift). All new code doesn't necessasarily mean all new bugs.
That would be fine, but impossible. In order to do that you have to have continuity. You have to employ the same dev team through the cycles. They have not. Their retarded business model doesn't let them do what is necessary to do what you say. Remember the explanations for introducing bugs into SH4 from SH3? The developer responsible for that part of the game is gone and we don't know how it works. That's a big organizational problem caused by a bad business model.

You think this will get better for SH5? No chance! People do what they are paid to do. Ubi is paid to reinvent the wheel every two years. For every new feature there will be two new problems. Building on the past is NOT what they are being paid for, therefore they will not do it.

It's like a stockbroker. What are you paying him for? Every time he buys or sells a stock for you he gets a commission. You are not paying him to make you money, you are paying him to churn your stock. What do you think he will do? I say he does what you pay him to do and your account goes in the toilet. Why? YOU PAID HIM TO DO IT! Follow the money and all things become clear. Similarly, in this case we don't pay Ubi to make a great game, or to improve on previous versions. We pay them to make ANOTHER game, with its own issues, both good and bad. They won't fix it because we do not pay them to do so. There is no income stream to make that happen.

You want a game that is constantly improved and just gets better and better for all players? Play an on-line MMORPG! Runescape is a perfect example of an evolutionary game model. There is no Runescape version number, all game clients automatically update when Jagex issues one. There is a large income stream generated by a $5 subscription fee. Not only do they retain old developers, they HIRE NEW ONES when they need specific capabilities they don't have. The model that works for simulations is already being done by others. All Ubi has to do is study and copy them. THEN we would be paying them to do what we need for a truly great simulator.

Until then we're installing screen doors on submarines and wondering why they leak.

[tomcat]

@ Rockin

Wouldn't it be possible that they take what works well now, perhaps spy a few features from TMO, RFB and others and carry that over to a new engine? They have 3d models for all kinds of ships for several navies. Refine the models, add some new ones for more diversity, recode and refine mechanics and plug it into the new engine and you have a combo of SH 3 & 4 (oversimplified yes, but you catch my drift). All new code doesn't necessasarily mean all new bugs.

That would be fine, but impossible. In order to do that you have to have continuity. You have to employ the same dev team through the cycles. They have not. Their retarded business model doesn't let them do what is necessary to do what you say. Remember the explanations for introducing bugs into SH4 from SH3? The developer responsible for that part of the game is gone and we don't know how it works. That's a big organizational problem caused by a bad business model.

You think this will get better for SH5? No chance! People do what they are paid to do. Ubi is paid to reinvent the wheel every two years. For every new feature there will be two new problems. Building on the past is NOT what they are being paid for, therefore they will not do it.

It's like a stockbroker. What are you paying him for? Every time he buys or sells a stock for you he gets a commission. You are not paying him to make you money, you are paying him to churn your stock. What do you think he will do? I say he does what you pay him to do and your account goes in the toilet. Why? YOU PAID HIM TO DO IT! Follow the money and all things become clear. Similarly, in this case we don't pay Ubi to make a great game, or to improve on previous versions. We pay them to make ANOTHER game, with its own issues, both good and bad. They won't fix it because we do not pay them to do so. There is no income stream to make that happen.

You want a game that is constantly improved and just gets better and better for all players? Play an on-line MMORPG! Runescape is a perfect example of an evolutionary game model. There is no Runescape version number, all game clients automatically update when Jagex issues one. There is a large income stream generated by a $5 subscription fee. Not only do they retain old developers, they HIRE NEW ONES when they need specific capabilities they don't have. The model that works for simulations is already being done by others. All Ubi has to do is study and copy them. THEN we would be paying them to do what we need for a truly great simulator.

Until then we're installing screen doors on submarines.

:har: (wipes a tear from his eye) Ah, where would we be without "experts"?

[Rockin Robbins]

:har: (wipes a tear from his eye) Ah, where would we be without "experts"?

Outside, getting some sun and exercise:yeah:.

[GREY WOLF 3]

Its took years to get sh3 with the mods which is now :up: :up: :up: :up: :up: :up:
How can they bring out sh5:har: :har: :har:
WHEN SH4 is why behide SH3 with GWX3

[Munchausen]

You want a game that is constantly improved and just gets better and better for all players? Play an on-line MMORPG!

Or play a game created by one programmer. Somebody who is devoted to his own brainchild and more willing to maintain support for it. Somebody who constantly visits his "offcial" forum, listens to suggestions, and does his best to make improvements. Somebody who cranks out "fixes" long, long after the game has been released.

[Scotty]

I hope they make it as said abve, use any submarine of any nation in WWII.. even beter have working playable surface ships, so we can have big gun sea battles..

if they claim to be using a new engine for the sim, I'll hope the use something like the Crysis engine, great graphics and outstanding physics.. more important is realisim than eye candy thoguh. Lets hope for the best.
scotty

[Jimbuna]

You want a game that is constantly improved and just gets better and better for all players? Play an on-line MMORPG!

Or play a game created by one programmer. Somebody who is devoted to his own brainchild and more willing to maintain support for it. Somebody who constantly visits his "offcial" forum, listens to suggestions, and does his best to make improvements. Somebody who cranks out "fixes" long, long after the game has been released.

Like the Grey Wolves perhaps :yeah:

[The General]

Guess someone thinks/knows it gonna be U-boats again!!

KaleunIf Sh5 is the same leap forward that SH3 was from 2, we could be in for a treat! :shucks:

[aanker]

from:
http://www.subsim.com/nucleus/index.php?blogid=4

SUBSIM DEVELOPMENT STATUS

| Silent Hunter 5 | Ubisoft | All new code; U-boats in the Atlantic | Q4 09 | Underway |

Well, that's depressing. I "get it" but I won't buy it.

Lemme see: SH2, SH3, the SH4 add-on, and now it looks like SH5 too!

Happy Hunting.........

Art

[Jimbuna]

Actually, I don't think there will be that many disappointed this time round.

I'm predicting another giant leap forward....taking on past lessons and the ideas of people into the bargain.

[Kapitan_Phillips]

SH5 will likely be the final turn of the screwdriver in making the worlds best WW2 simulation.

Until SH6 of course.

[AVGWarhawk]

I bet you SH5 has submarines in it:D

[Jimbuna]

I bet you SH5 has submarines in it:D

This has got to be the best opportunity ever to combine both the ATO and PTO from the outset :yep:

[Turbografx]

I don't care really what theater the game starts out with, whats important is that it's moddable. SH4 can be modded pretty well but ti takes some work, if they designed the game to be easily modded from the beginning that would be awesome.

That way we could have mod teams implement forces which don't get a lot of love: The Brits, Dutch, French, Russians, Japanese, Italians etc.

[Frame57]

Looking forward to it, as i am getting bored with these at this point. maybe if I pay a modder some dough, they could come up with Nemo's nautilus so i could ram things and fight off that huge squid...:up: