CHESS: Letum vs Skybird

[Letum]

Ng1-f3

Please keep this thread moves only chaps. At least until the first game is over.

[Skybird]

Aha...!?:D

Ng1-f3

my move 1...Ng8-f6

[Letum]

Pg2-g3

[Skybird]

Pg2-g3
mine 2... b7-b6

[Letum]

Bf1-g2

[Skybird]

Bf1-g2
mine: 3... Bc8-b7

[Letum]

Nf3-h4

[Skybird]

Nf3-h4
my move 4... Bb7xg2

if your move 5. Nh4xg2
then my move 5... e7-e5

[Letum]

Nh4xg2
And
Ke1-g1

[Skybird]

You mean casteling O-O, yes, not a typo for Ke1-f1, yes?

[Skybird]

your move assumed 6. O-O
my move 6... d7-d5

http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/1700/pos10ov8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


My last move for tonight.
.
.
.

[Letum]

Pd2-d4

I wonder how many possible variations there are for any given game of chess.
If I had enough good mathematicians and enough processing power, would it be possible to solve chess for the black or white side?

[Skybird]

Pd2-d4

I wonder how many possible variations there are for any given game of chess.
If I had enough good mathematicians and enough processing power, would it be possible to solve chess for the black or white side?
In theory, yes, in practice: no. The number of possible (by rules) variations has been calculated, but it calculated to a number that is stellar in dimension.

A guy named Allis calculated the number of possible positions to be 5 x 10^52.

Influential Claude Shannon, father of the so-called Shannon-A and Shannon-B strategy in chess programming (basically brute force versus selective algorithms), showed that the number of possibel variations of a complete chessmatch is 10^120. This number is known as the "Shannon number".

If you take estimations of 80 billion galaxies existing in the universe, and count just the hydrogene atoms, an estimated calculation would lead you to ranges of around 10^79 hydrogene atoms in these 80 billion galaxies.

[Skybird]

Pd2-d4

Okay, ow this being my last move of the night. :)

7... e5xd4

Pawns are not indicated by a P in notation, btw. Neither in short nor in long notation. ;)

[Letum]

The mind boggles.


*edit* my move: I'll 'nab your pawn with my queen.

[Skybird]

yours 8. Qd1xd4

mine 8... Qd8-d7

[UnderseaLcpl]

edit- Sorry, I'll shutup

[Letum]

Nb1-c3

[Skybird]

This is tough to calculate. I wish I had a chainsaw to cut back that tree. All options so damn passive.

[Skybird]

Nb1-c3
9... Nb8-c6

Hm. Not totally convinced of this, but all other options seem to have more possible blowbacks. Somehow I was not able to punish your queer opening.:stare:

[Letum]

Qd4-f4

[Skybird]

Qd4-f4
10... Bf8-d6

I wonder if Bc5 wouldn't be better. Tossing a coin...

[Letum]

Qf4-g5


Somehow I was not able to punish your queer opening
I have never studied set moves or openings.
I value my ignorance as a lesson in skinning cats.
Perhaps this early game is a case in point.

[Skybird]

Qf4-g5


Somehow I was not able to punish your queer opening
I have never studied set moves or openings.
I value my ignorance as a lesson in skinning cats.
Perhaps this early game is a case in point.

11... h7-h6

Now its getting interesting. I calculated for an extremely asymmetrical endgame. :ping:

[Letum]

I don't get it. Am I missing something here?

Qg5xg7


*edit*
Fook I am.

[UnderseaLcpl]

:o :o :o :o :-?

[Letum]

Gah...looks like I might have to resign.....

Give me a few moments to think....

Could you post a screenshot of the board please?

[Letum]

*Hands back towel*

Nah, I'm ok. ;)

[Skybird]

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/831/image30mv2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

A bit early to resign, I would say.

And do not trust the formula - that is no Reti opening, really, it is not, in no way.

[Letum]

I thought I saw a horrible checkmate.
but it isn't there. I was just thinking aloud.
Thats a bad habit of mine, even in text.

Your move.

And do not trust the formula - that is no Reti opening, really, it is not, in no way
Formula? Reti opening? WHAT?!

edit:
*googles*
*dies of jargon*

edit2: so the Reti opening is just any opening with the KN? Why does that need a name?!

[Skybird]

yours 12 Qg5xg7

such impertinence needs to be punished - if you think I did not see that, sorry, you were wrong http://www.smileygarden.de/smilie/Frech/smileymania.at_02706.gif (http://www.smileygarden.de)


12... Ke8-e7

[Skybird]

edit2: so the Reti opening is just any opening with the KN? Why does that need a name?!
KN? what's that?

Reti is an opening that sees White moving Nf3 as an opening, and that does not later traverse into a different system like queens Indian, which I choosed because as a Reti player with White myself I know how sharp and dangerous it can become. However, Queens Indian like I choosed by b6 (instead b5) sees Black having the plan to block the centre for white by controlling and moving pawns to d5 and e4 and defending them with the bishop on b7, also countering the White bishop on g2 - the diagonal the white bishop tries to support by moving to g2 is one of the keys in this variation. when you exchanged that bishop voluntarily, you directly played into the hands of Black's intention, and also weakened the king'S position. I just do not know Queens Indian good enough to take more longtermed advantage from that strategic error, it never was part of my repertoire 20 years ago. It is said to be a solid defense, but dooming Black to remain passive - something that I have come to see now. While I think I stand better than you, i also never saw any real chance to strike at you without needing to gamble that you would not see the threat I raise. But I consider plans that depend on the opponent cooperating to be weak plans, and thus played more solid. The passivity and lacking offensive chances seem to be the price for that.

[Letum]

Nc3-d5 Check

KN = Knig's knight. The only notation I ever used went:


As seen from white:
QR8,QN8,QB8,Q8,K8,KB8,KN8,KR8
QR7,QN7,QB7,Q7,K7,KB7,KN7,KR7
QR6,QN6,QB6,Q6,K6,KB6,KN6,KR6
QR5,QN5,QB5,Q5,K5,KB5,KN5,KR5
QR4,QN4,QB4,Q4,K4,KB4,KN4,KR4
QR3,QN3,QB3,Q3,K3,KB3,KN3,KR3
QR2,QN2,QB2,Q2,K2,KB2,KN2,KR2
QR1,QN1,QB1,Q1,K1,KB1,KN1,KR1

As seen from black:
KR8,KN8,KB8,K8,Q8,QB8,QN8,QR8
KR7,KN7,KB7,K7,Q7,QB7,QN7,QR7
KR6,KN6,KB6,K6,Q6,QB6,QN6,QR6
KR5,KN5,KB5,K5,Q5,QB5,QN5,QR5
KR4,KN4,KB4,K4,Q4,QB4,QN4,QR4
KR3,KN3,KB3,K3,Q3,QB3,QN3,QR3
KR2,KN2,KB2,K2,Q2,QB2,QN2,QR2
KR1,KN1,KB1,K1,Q1,QB1,QN1,QR1


The advantage being that this notation can be used from both sides of the board and still work.
Perhaps it is old fashioned now or perhaps just English and not used elsewhere. I don't know.


Reti is an opening that sees White moving Nf3 as an opening, and that does not later traverse into a different system like queens Indian, which I choosed because as a Reti player with White myself I know how sharp and dangerous it can become. However, Queens Indian like I choosed by b6 (instead b5) sees Black having the plan to block the centre for white by controlling and moving pawns to d5 and e4 and defending them with the bishop on b7, also countering the White bishop on g2 - the diagonal the white bishop tries to support by moving to g2 is one of the keys in this variation. when you exchanged that bishop voluntarily, you directly played into the hands of Black's intention, and also weakened the king'S position. I just do not know Queens Indian good enough to take more longtermed advantage from that strategic error, it never was part of my repertoire 20 years ago. It is said to be a solid defense, but dooming Black to remain passive - something that I have come to see now. While I think I stand better than you, i also never saw any real chance to strike at you without needing to gamble that you would not see the threat I raise. But I consider plans that depend on the opponent cooperating to be weak plans, and thus played more solid. The passivity and lacking offensive chances seem to be the price for that.

haha...I don't like chess nearly enough to read or try to understand that.
Its enough to make me want to go back to snakes and ladders.

[Skybird]

Nc3-d5 Check



Bad knight.

13... Nf6xd5 smack!

Ah, that makes me wishing that Conan were here. He knew so very well what is best in life.

[Skybird]

Nc3-d5 Check

KN = Knig's knight. The only notation I ever used went:

The advantage being that this notation can be used from both sides of the board and still work.



What advantage is there? All notation works from both sides of the board.

[Letum]

Nc3-d5 Check

KN = Knig's knight. The only notation I ever used went:

The advantage being that this notation can be used from both sides of the board and still work.


What advantage is there? All notation works from both sides of the board.


With your notation white's second line is x2 and black's second line is x7.
With the notation I was taught white's second line is x2 and black's second line is
also x2.

[Skybird]

Nc3-d5 Check

KN = Knig's knight. The only notation I ever used went:

The advantage being that this notation can be used from both sides of the board and still work.


What advantage is there? All notation works from both sides of the board.


With your notation white's second line is x2 and black's second line is x7.
With the notation I was taught white's second line is x2 and black's second line is
also x2.

So...?

[Letum]

Bc1xh6 / QB1xKN6 (or from your point of view QB8xKN2)

[Letum]

Nc3-d5 Check

KN = Knig's knight. The only notation I ever used went:

The advantage being that this notation can be used from both sides of the board and still work.


What advantage is there? All notation works from both sides of the board.

With your notation white's second line is x2 and black's second line is x7.
With the notation I was taught white's second line is x2 and black's second line is
also x2.
So...?

It makes more sense to call the 2nd line, the 2nd line, rather than the 7th.

*edit* to put it more clearly:

It makes more sense to call Black's second line, blacks 2nd line, rather than White's 8th line.

[Skybird]

Bc1xh6 / QB1xKN6 (or from your point of view QB8xKN2)

14... Ra8-g8

Are you missing something important elsewhere, or why are you suddenly trying to commit Harakiri? :huh: Until 12.Qg5 i really felt helpless a bit. Now you brought me into a superior position. It's so extreme a sudden change in your play, I don't understand that.

[Skybird]

It makes more sense to call the 2nd line, the 2nd line, rather than the 7th.

*edit* to put it more clearly:

It makes more sense to call Black's second line, blacks 2nd line, rather than White's 8th line.
Can't follow your logic there. And the international chess scene obviously also does not. I knew that this old notation system existed, and had a tradition in the anglosaxon world, but I never saw it as a loss that precise coordinate-depending notation is dominating.

However. ;)

[Letum]

Remember, this is only the second real game I have played since I have left
secondary school at the age of 16. Thats some 6 or so years ago now.

I am very much a novice and out of practice.

Heres my resignation.

[Skybird]

Remember, this is only the second real game I have played since I have left
secondary school at the age of 16. Thats some 6 or so years ago now.

I am very much a novice and out of practice.

Heres my resignation.
Couldn't remember that since I did not know it.

It was an uncomfortable match for me until after your 12. move, then I just needed to react to the errors you made. I assume you wanted to conduct a flying attack and did not calculate it precisely!?


You want a rematch or want to do an analysis?

[Letum]

Ah, I thought you did.


If you post a screen of the situation after black's 11th move, how about we carry on from there?

[Skybird]

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/6199/image31qf1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

White to move.

[Letum]

Queen to h4

[Skybird]

Queen to h4
12... O-O-O

[Letum]

Queen to h4 12... O-O-O

Now theres some notation I haven't seen before...

[UnderseaLcpl]

Now theres some notation I haven't seen before...

What, queenside castle?

[Skybird]

Queen to h4 12... O-O-O

Now theres some notation I haven't seen before...
Yes, as Lance said, queenside castle. Kingside castle is O-O. Which, as I just researched, is being used in "Descriptive Notation" (that is the name of the old thing you have described) as well.
http://chessnotation.com/descriptive.htm (http://chessnotation.com/descriptive.htm)

There is Long and Short Algebraic Notations as well, the two versions that I use, long for my main moves, short for variations. They are international standard in usage as well as literature today, both internantioanl chess associations make them obligatory, just sometimes the capital letter for major pieces get replaced with small little figurines (symbols like the one in chess diagrams)
http://chessnotation.com/algebraic.htm (http://chessnotation.com/algebraic.htm)


Finally there is "coordinates", which is totally unofficial and not used in any literature at all. It has almost exclusively been brought into play by 7-segment-LED in computer displays of board computers of the 80s and 90s (E2E4). It has never been an accepted or officially used/allowed notation.

And last there is correspondence chess or ICCF notation, which in past times was necessary in order to use number stamps so that in certain nations the delvery costs for postcards could be kept cheaper, for there were special tariffs if only stamped information and no handwriting was used. In ICCF, a1 is 11 and h8 is 88, the move e2-e4 translates into 5254. Special ICCF postcards were - and are - used for this.
http://chessnotation.com/ICCFnumeric.htm (http://chessnotation.com/ICCFnumeric.htm)

the only similiarity between all these notations is that all moves are numbered, always. ;)

I assume you never have filled a match form before, yes?

Additional symbology that is used a lot in literature here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punctuation_(chess (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punctuation_(chess))

[Letum]

Bc1-f4

[Skybird]

Bc1-f4
Ouch, that hurts...!

my move 13... g7-g5

You should feel the effect from it soon.

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/2522/image29cb4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/7796/image30dl4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Letum]

Ack!

I've lost again!

[Skybird]

"Conan - what is best in life?" http://www.smileygarden.de/smilie/Frech/smileymania.at_10391.gif (http://www.smileygarden.de)

[shake-hands]

[Skybird]

P.S.

Qg7 was NOT your loosing move, but the move after that.

You could have tried this enforced variation, which led me to my comment about a "highly asymmetrical endgame"

12. Qxg7 Ke7 13. Nh4 Rag8 14. Ng6+ Ke6 15. Qxh8 Rxh8 16. Nxh8 Qe8 17. Nxf7 Qxf7

that is a kill ratio of 2 rooks and 2 pawns (012 points) against 1 queen and 1 knight (=12 points).

Note that the variation'S moves all are enforced in order to0 keep the material balance - that's why it can be calculated 12 moves in advance.

http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/7872/pos2re7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


Difficult play for both. I have been happier at times.

[Letum]

If I am not too tedious an opponent, your move for the next round?