Another Russian naval sim in the works!

[Sonarman]

Hopefully this Russo Japanese naval game project is still ongoing as it looks very good, unlike Distant guns this game seems to have a more simulator style approach. Check out the Google translated version of the Russian site here (http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rjwin3d.narod.ru)

Be sure to check out this early batch of screenshots (http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rjwin3d.narod.ru%2Fsc reens%2Fold00.htm&sl=ru&tl=en&hl=en&ie=UTF-8)

[Kazuaki Shimazaki II]

Russians are really masochistic. Why would anyone sane write a sim solely about such a humiliating defeat in their nation's history.

It is kind of like the Americans writing a sim solely about Savo Island or Tassafaronga, except it is even worse since while it might be possible to reverse say Savo Island with the right tactics, it is hard to come up with a scenario where the Russians would have come on top when you count in all their deficiencies in personnel and equipment, so basically a realistic game will find the Russians losing.

[Randomizer]

Thanks for the heads up. Sadly, I found Distant Guns horribly boring, like a bad History Channel doc with impressive CGI recreations. I'll be keeping an eye on this development.

[Maxim]

Did not wish you to upset, but such game will not be. In 2004 on one of Russian forums about war of 1905 the team for creation of this game has gathered. Game planned to make only for itself. It was not the commercial project. Professional developers of games in a team were not.

In the beginning affairs at the project went not badly. But then the team has broken up. Now it is possible to declare precisely, that the project has died.

Russian not masochists. Russian appreciate the errors and defeats also as well as victories. I ask to notice, that it is not enough defeats, and it is a lot of victories.

War of Japan and Russia was time of crisis of the nation, time of the first Russian revolution and full anarchy in the country. The state system did not allow effectively to a message of war and consequently Russia has lost even prior to the beginning of war.

We, russian, have not managed correctly to estimate the enemy and have lost. But Japan has repeated our mistakes in fights at lake Hasan.

We sincerely respect with people of Japan and we recognize his military merits in war of 1905. After in 1945 above Port Arthur Russian flag again has been lifted, honour of the Russian weapon has been restored.

I do not wish to argue, but special problems with arms at Russia were not. But preparation and maintenance of sailors and officers were simply awful. Nobody wanted this war. What benefit could be taken from a victory not clearly.

I wish to tell that estimating a victory over Russia in 1905 as easy you humiliate a feat of the Japanese army and fleet. You offend memory of their victims.

Defeat is not the insult and humiliation. Defeat - the important lesson, is a signal to changes in the country and army.

[Dust]

Did not wish you to upset, but such game will not be. In 2004 on one of Russian forums about war of 1905 the team for creation of this game has gathered. Game planned to make only for itself. It was not the commercial project. Professional developers of games in a team were not.

In the beginning affairs at the project went not badly. But then the team has broken up. Now it is possible to declare precisely, that the project has died.
is there any chance they open source the already created stuff?

would be great if you can help to do it.

[Maxim]

Now a situation such. The project has artists 3d models, but there is no project head and programmers. Artists of models continue work under the plan. Actually except for models at game anything is not present. With despair artists try to understand free-of-charge game engines. This my personal opinion on a situation.

Here a forum of the people who have remained in the project: http://ngd.forum24.ru/

If want, I can help to talk to you to these guys. I shall help with translation on Russian.

[Dust]

i want to invite them to

The Combat Simulator Project
http://csp.sourceforge.net
http://sourceforge.net/projects/csp

The Combat Simulator Project (CSP) is a community united by the common interest to develop a free, open-source combat simulation. Our ultimate goal is to create cross-platform, high-fidelity simulations of large-scale combat scenarios. CSP is open for all to join. We invite everyone with interest in simulators and simulator development to participate and contribute to this project.

we are an active project with programmers!

here is our forum
http://csp.sourceforge.net/forum/

i would love to hear from them. if you would be so nice and help making contact it would be great, because i don't speak russian. :up:

[Maxim]

i want to invite them to

The Combat Simulator Project
http://csp.sourceforge.net
http://sourceforge.net/projects/csp

The Combat Simulator Project (CSP) is a community united by the common interest to develop a free, open-source combat simulation. Our ultimate goal is to create cross-platform, high-fidelity simulations of large-scale combat scenarios. CSP is open for all to join. We invite everyone with interest in simulators and simulator development to participate and contribute to this project.

we are an active project with programmers!

here is our forum
http://csp.sourceforge.net/forum/

i would love to hear from them. if you would be so nice and help making contact it would be great, because i don't speak russian. :up:

I have contacted one of these guys. I personally know him. As soon as he will write the answer, I at once shall translate it on English and I shall inform you.

[Maxim]

I have received the answer. The leader of the people who have remained in a team leaves on two weeks for holiday. After returning it is ready to dialogue. I shall inform his e-mail address.

[Dust]

I have received the answer. The leader of the people who have remained in a team leaves on two weeks for holiday. After returning it is ready to dialogue. I shall inform his e-mail address. ok, so i hear from him in about 2 weeks when he is back. he can also post directly in the csp forum if he wants, no problem. thanks for your help. :up:

[Hitman]

Russians are really masochistic. Why would anyone sane write a sim solely about such a humiliating defeat in their nation's history

Why would someone want to play a simulator as WW2 U-Boat commander? They fought for the nazis and suffered a terrible defeat, so what is the point?

If you had readed more from the russian point of view of the Tsushima battle -which was the final part of a very interesting odyssey across half of the world- you would understand to which extent the russian fleet commander Rozhenstvensky and the sailors excelled in honour and sacrifice. They fought a desperate battle with material that was theoretically not inferior, but had been severely degradated due to lack of proper maintenance in the long voyage. Their main objetive was not even to combat, but to reach Port Arthur and repair before being ready for the true battle. They were intercepted in the attempt, in the worst possible conditions, and hence the defeat. The japanese navy won the battle deservedly, but there was more honour for the russiasn who lost in terrible conditions and yet fought with courage then for the japanese, who won in conditions of superiority.

Many alternative scenarios are possible with this theme, as they should have been in real life, had the fleet been managed properly from the higher stances.

[Maxim]

We had ships, but there was no command for them. The social system in Russia made by admirals of the most notable and rich, instead of talented. After destruction of admiral Makarov the squadron in Port Arthur became useless.

The second squadron from Baltic sea has been strongly loaded by coal. Under weight of coal the main armor belt of battleships has appeared under water. By the ships there was a lot of wood. As a whole the ships of the second squadron have not been prepared for battle. The military commission after war has investigated the reasons of defeat. We have lost because the commander of a squadron could not operate correctly it. Has made many mistakes. A shame for navy became that admiral has surrendered to the enemy.

[Dust]

We had ships, but there was no command for them. The social system in Russia made by admirals of the most notable and rich, instead of talented. After destruction of admiral Makarov the squadron in Port Arthur became useless.

The second squadron from Baltic sea has been strongly loaded by coal. Under weight of coal the main armor belt of battleships has appeared under water. By the ships there was a lot of wood. As a whole the ships of the second squadron have not been prepared for battle. The military commission after war has investigated the reasons of defeat. We have lost because the commander of a squadron could not operate correctly it. Has made many mistakes. A shame for navy became that admiral has surrendered to the enemy.
thanks for the interesting insight.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tsushima

The Battle of Tsushima (Japanese (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_%28language%29): 対馬海戦, tsushima-kaisen, Russian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_language): Цусимское сражение, Tsusimskoye srazheniye), commonly known as the “Sea of Japan Naval Battle” (Japanese: 日本海海戦, nihonkai-kaisen) in Japan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan) and the “Battle of Tsushima Strait” elsewhere, was the last and most decisive sea battle of the Russo-Japanese War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Japanese_War) of 1904–1905. It was fought on May 27–28, 1905 (May 14–15 in the Julian calendar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_calendar) then in use in Russia) in the Tsushima Strait (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsushima_Strait). In this battle the Japanese (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan) fleet under Admiral Heihachiro Togo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heihachiro_Togo) destroyed two-thirds of the Russian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia) fleet under Admiral Zinovy Rozhestvensky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinovy_Rozhestvensky). Historian Edmund Morris (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmund_Morris_%28writer%29) calls it the greatest naval battle since Trafalgar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Trafalgar).[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tsushima#cite_note-0) It was the largest naval engagement of the pre-dreadnought (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-dreadnought) battleship era.
The Battle of Tsushima was the only sea battle in history in which steel battleships fought a decisive fleet action. In addition, much to the Russian Navy's credit, Admiral Rozhestvensky's battleship fleet conducted a voyage of over 18,000 nautical miles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nautical_mile) (33,000 km) to reach the Far East.
Prior to the Russo-Japanese War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Japanese_War), countries constructed their battleships with mixed batteries of mainly 150 mm (6-inch), 203 mm (8-inch), 254 mm (10-inch) and 305 mm (12-inch) guns, with the intent that these battleships fight on the battle line in a close-quarter, decisive fleet action. The battle demonstrated that big guns with longer ranges were more advantageous during naval battles than mixed batteries of different sizes.
Political consequences

Russia's prestige in the eyes of the world was badly damaged and it was a severe blow to the Romanov dynasty (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Romanov). Nearly the entire Russian fleet was lost in the battle in the Tsushima Straits (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsushima_Straits); the fast armed yacht Almaz (classified as a cruiser of the 2nd rank) and two destroyers (Grozny and Bravy) were the only Russian ships to make it through to Vladivostok (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladivostok). One could argue that the political humiliation of the loss of this war was a direct contribution to the 1905 Revolution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Revolution_%281905%29) in Russia.[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)] In The Guns of August (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Guns_of_August) historian Barbara Tuchman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_Tuchman) argues that Russia's loss destabilized the balance of power in Europe, emboldening the Central Powers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Powers) and contributing to their decision to go to war in 1914 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_I).
The battle had a profound cultural and political impact upon Japan. It was the first defeat of a Western power by an Asian country, utilizing full breadth of industrial technology, in modern times. The victory established Japan as the sixth powerful naval power[9] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tsushima#cite_note-Sondhaus-8) while the Russian navy declined to one barely stronger that of Austria Hungary.[9] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tsushima#cite_note-Sondhaus-8)
The victory helped embolden Japan's increasingly aggressive political and military establishment. However, the lopsided Japanese victory at Tsushima also:
"created a legend that was to haunt Japan's leaders for forty years. A British admiral once said, 'It takes three years to build a ship, but 300 years to build a tradition.' Japan thought that the victory had completed this task in a matter of a few years...It had all been too easy. Looking at Togo's victory over one of the world's great powers convinced some Japanese military men that with more ships, and bigger and better ones, similar victories could be won throughout the Pacific. Perhaps no power could resist the Japanese navy, not even Britain and the United States?"[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tsushima#cite_note-Regan.2C_p.178-7) As Geoffrey Regan notes, Tsushima was decisive:
"because the result was so misleading. Certainly the Japanese navy had performed well, but its opponents had been weak, and it was not invincible....Togo's victory [helped] set Japan on a path that would eventually lead her" to the Second World War.[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tsushima#cite_note-Regan.2C_p.178-7)
do you have links in english about the russian view of the battle?

[Hitman]

No internet links, but a very well written book I enjoyed very much is this one: http://www.amazon.com/Tsars-Last-Armada-Voyage-Tsushima/dp/0465057926

I wholeheartedly recommend reading it :up:

[Randomizer]

An older book The Fleet that had to Die by British naval historian Richard Hough provides a sypathetic view of the epic voyage of Admiral Rozhestvensky's Second Pacific Squadron to the Tsushima Straights. That the venture ended in disaster overshadows the major accomplishment of just getting there at all.

I would echo the recommendation of The Tsar's Last Armada from Hitman as it pertains to the Russo-Japanese War. Don't care much for the title though because it implies the efforts of the Russian Navy from 1914-17 were non-existant.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki II]

Why would someone want to play a simulator as WW2 U-Boat commander? They fought for the nazis and suffered a terrible defeat, so what is the point?

A U-boat or a fighter plane simulation, IMO, is a little different. Even in a strategic scene of hopelessness, it is possible for one U-boat or one fighter plane to do well by sheer personal skill (realistically, it isn't the gamer that's that good, it is that he's fighting the AI).

A Battle of Tsushima sim involves an entire fleet and hundreds of guns, a group effort. Which makes individual excellence a lot less relevant. Which means the player finds it almost impossible to make a difference.

If you had readed more from the russian point of view of the Tsushima battle -which was the final part of a very interesting odyssey across half of the world- you would understand to which extent the russian fleet commander Rozhenstvensky and the sailors excelled in honour and sacrifice. They fought a desperate battle with material that was theoretically not inferior, but had been severely degradated due to lack of proper maintenance in the long voyage. Their main objetive was not even to combat, but to reach Port Arthur and repair before being ready for the true battle. They were intercepted in the attempt, in the worst possible conditions, and hence the defeat. The japanese navy won the battle deservedly, but there was more honour for the russiasn who lost in terrible conditions and yet fought with courage then for the japanese, who won in conditions of superiority.

Many alternative scenarios are possible with this theme, as they should have been in real life, had the fleet been managed properly from the higher stances.

So the Battle of Tsushima game is really about good management before the battle?

Because as you said, by the time they actually crawled into Tsushima, a realistic tactical game that factors in the inferiority of men and material by that stage will have been just about impossible to win. That's what makes it so masochistic. If you reduce the inferiority (this is the path taken with a lot of Japanese Great Pacific War re-enactments, where America's 10:1 industrial superiority is pared down to maybe a 2:1) you don't have a realistic game.

[Maxim]

National myths are dangerous to simple people and convenient for aggressive politicians. There is no Russian or Japanese point of view. There are real events and their analysis. Depending on the purposes of the analysis it is possible to draw different conclusions. But in any case the truth nobody is not necessary.

For small Japan the victory over huge Russia was a result expensive and very painful reforms. However, it is a victory has led to defeat in the Second World war. The idea of the national superiority is always dangerous. For Russia defeat in war became one of the reasons of revolution of 1917. After reforms Japan attacked the USSR twice and both of time lost. One of the reasons defeat was a wrong estimation of forces of the USSR.

To imagine other result of battle on the sea in 1905, look the information on fight in Yellow sea on July, 28th, 1904. And if the squadron in Port Arthur has not been attacked by the first? Russia knew about the fast beginning of war. But to Japan are in earnest not. The opinion that these "small monkeys" was possible will win easily and quickly. Also prepares for war it is not necessary.

The same mistake have repeated the USA and the Europe in 1942...

Understand one simple idea, that if there is no overwhelming superiority in forces people battle not only the ships, but also.

[SUBMAN1]

I'm dying for a good Battleship sim. I don't care if its modern (Tico or AB for example) or older (1900? 1944?) doesn't matter. I wonder if I will ever get my wish?

-S

[Raptor1]

I'm dying for a good Battleship sim. I don't care if its modern (Tico or AB for example) or older (1900? 1944?) doesn't matter. I wonder if I will ever get my wish?

-S

http://img353.imageshack.us/img353/804/gnbvv3.jpg

[Dust]

National myths are dangerous to simple people and convenient for aggressive politicians. There is no Russian or Japanese point of view. There are real events and their analysis. Depending on the purposes of the analysis it is possible to draw different conclusions. But in any case the truth nobody is not necessary.

For small Japan the victory over huge Russia was a result expensive and very painful reforms. However, it is a victory has led to defeat in the Second World war. The idea of the national superiority is always dangerous. For Russia defeat in war became one of the reasons of revolution of 1917. After reforms Japan attacked the USSR twice and both of time lost. One of the reasons defeat was a wrong estimation of forces of the USSR.

To imagine other result of battle on the sea in 1905, look the information on fight in Yellow sea on July, 28th, 1904. And if the squadron in Port Arthur has not been attacked by the first? Russia knew about the fast beginning of war. But to Japan are in earnest not. The opinion that these "small monkeys" was possible will win easily and quickly. Also prepares for war it is not necessary.

The same mistake have repeated the USA and the Europe in 1942...

Understand one simple idea, that if there is no overwhelming superiority in forces people battle not only the ships, but also. that was the reason why i asked after the russian view, im pretty sure it changed over the time. the lessons were not learned for the 1st and the 2nd worldwar also afghanistan because the failures were very similar, the fish begins to stink at the head.

[CaptHawkeye]

I tried playing GNB and unfortunantly, it sucked. I never played it back in the day though, so their's no over riding sense of nostalgia to provide GNB with a "get out of Hawkeye's objective analysis free" card. :)

[Raptor1]

I tried playing GNB and unfortunantly, it sucked. I never played it back in the day though, so their's no over riding sense of nostalgia to provide GNB with a "get out of Hawkeye's objective analysis free" card. :)
What about it sucks?

I haven't played it back in the day either (Me being born on the same year the game was released), but I have to find a battleship sim that beats it's campaign and overall gameplay (Thinking about it, mostly the campaign)

[nikimcbee]

The Guadalcanal one was a blast. The only down side was it was a little slow in the beggining. It would have been nice if they had subs in it.

[Raptor1]

The Guadalcanal one was a blast. The only down side was it was a little slow in the beggining. It would have been nice if they had subs in it.

Does that one work on DosBox?

1 does pretty well, 4 and 5 have some serious sound and slowdown problems (I assume you're talking about 2)

[Maxim]

The representative of a team of developers has written such reference. He is afraid that his bad knowledge of English will prevent to correct understanding.


"Hello!

I represent a team of developers of a computer game about war of Japan and Russia per 1905. We plan to make a mix of strategy in real time and a tactical simulator. The player can operate: fleet, a squadron, the separate ship. We wish to make game as much as possible realistic in all aspects: guns and armor, a design of the ship, controllability. The available concept of game. There are models of the ships and the weapon. Programmers are very necessary to us.

Yours faithfully Egor Naumov."

[Dust]

do they want it open source or commercial?

[Naumov]

do they want it open source or commercial?
Unfortunately the commercial.

[Dust]

http://csp.sourceforge.net/ and http://www.gcblue.com/ are both open source.

[Sonarman]

It looks like this promising project may be back on the cards again new video footage (http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fn-g-d.org%2Findex.htm&sl=ru&tl=en&hl=en&ie=UTF-8) & screenshots have appeared recently.