modern day Q-Ships?

[GoldenRivet]

Got to looking into this Q-Ship mod, and i got to thinking about a news story on my home page news about pirates in the waters off Somalia.

Would a Q-Ship not serve as a proper means of addressing the pirate threat?

For example, A pleasure yacht much like this one http://www.find-yachts.com/super_yacht_fos6.jpg could be manned with British or American Sailors. Each Port hole on the port and starboard side could be made to fold down revealing a pop up mini-gun like this ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PInYfRIdKk4&feature=related

for heavier needs, perhaps a small elevator could lift up a tow missile battery from the top of the wheel house area or forward deck.

it wouldnt take a great number of encounters with such a small speedy craft armed to the teeth to discourage piracy altogether.

what do you guys think?

[Platapus]

There might be a legality issue?

[superfecta]

Why not a U-Boat?

[BasilY]

There might be a legality issue?
As long as the bad guys fire first, I don't see a problem here. The real problem is how to deal with the prisoners. Since we can't issue any order that as much hint at not taking anyone alive, the navy must find a place to house, accomendate, and try any person captured in these operations.

If we throw a somalian pirate in prison in the UK or US, that might just encourage more to fly the jolly roger:arrgh!:. Why not? Free food, Air Condition and indoor plumbing are still luxury items in many parts of the world.

GoldenRivet got the right idea though, maybe we should lend the men and equipment to Eqypt or Yeman and encourage them to do it. Surely no one want to spend anytime in their custody...:damn::damn::damn:

[GoldenRivet]

The real problem is how to deal with the prisoners.

what prisoners?

who says you have to fish them out of the water?

im sure there are plenty of sharks off the somali coast

[ivank]

I agree, there should be such ships! maybe not yachts, but merchant ships could fair well. one just has to worry that the pirate is more heavily armed!!:damn::damn:

[Erich dem Roten]

Certainly an interesting idea...I wonder if it's been tried before:hmm: I'm sure international law plays a large role in combating piracy.

I'd love to see the faces of the 3 or 4 guys with their ancient Ak-47's when they're suddenly faced with a popup 120mm cannon and a squad of marines :rotfl:

[baggygreen]

I posted similar in the GT forum yesterday, saying bugger it lets just blow the *****s outta the water.

why do we have to be PC about it? they're terrorizing hostages, costing millions or even billions of dollars in forcing ships to reroute and in ransoms...

blow em out of the water, and then fail to see any survivors. who in their right mind is going to complain if a bunch of opportunistic, vicious scumbags like these pirates are killed?

[richardphat]

Why not cannon with gunpowder and firing iron ball!???:rotfl: :rotfl:
OK i shush:shifty:

[Tango589]

Why not cannon with gunpowder and firing iron ball!???:rotfl: :rotfl:
OK i shush:shifty:

This is why:

http://img.metro.co.uk/i/pix/2008/08b/NavyPoster_450x300.jpg

Look what it's done to this poor chap!

[Jimbuna]

They obviously didn't have a TOW weapons unit....more probably equipped with a Stinger missile system :p

[Paul.Saenger]

Pirates one time thought a Russian BDK (http://flot.sevastopol.info/photos/photo_desant/orsk_03.jpg) to be a freighter and attacked it despite the Russian commander literally shouting "You do not want to do this" at them and even showing the guns. Needless to say, the pirates were blown to pieces.

[Darksun]

Pirates one time thought a Russian BDK (http://flot.sevastopol.info/photos/photo_desant/orsk_03.jpg) to be a freighter and attacked it despite the Russian commander literally shouting "You do not want to do this" at them and even showing the guns. Needless to say, the pirates were blown to pieces.

Don't have a link to a news story about that, do you? That would be cool to pass around to some folks I know.

Reminds me of this story.

http://www.navy.mil/navydata/navy_legacy.asp?id=174US Ship: Please divert your course 15 degrees to the south to avoid a collision.

CND reply: Recommend you divert your course 15 degrees to the South to avoid a collision.

US Ship: This is the Captain of a US Navy Ship. I say again, divert your course.

CND reply: No. I say again, you divert YOUR course!

US Ship: THIS IS THE AIRCRAFT CARRIER USS CORAL SEA, WE ARE A LARGE WARSHIP OF THE US NAVY. DIVERT YOUR COURSE NOW!!

CND reply: This is a lighthouse. Your call.

[SandyCaesar]

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

Then again, if the Russians somehow decided that they want to do something like that, I could imagine a Spetsnaz unit pulling that off. AFAIK, international law doesn't prohibit sailing under false colors before an attack as long as you pull out real colors when you attack.

We really need Q-ships like that off Malacca and Somalia. As for prisoners...screw it, plenty of sharks in those waters.

EDIT: This Friday is International Talk Like A Pirate Day. Hmm...
"Stop your engines and let us board--oh, $#!%--"
BOOM!

[Jimbuna]

Pirates one time thought a Russian BDK (http://flot.sevastopol.info/photos/photo_desant/orsk_03.jpg) to be a freighter and attacked it despite the Russian commander literally shouting "You do not want to do this" at them and even showing the guns. Needless to say, the pirates were blown to pieces.

Obviously blind or very stupid pirates :lol:

[KeptinCranky]

If you're going for arming a yacht... why not go for this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christina_O

for that vintage feeling :D

[GoldenRivet]

it has to be small and unassuming... projecting an aura of vulnerability... but in reality, very fast, very maneuverable and armed to the teeth.

[SandyCaesar]

If you're going for arming a yacht... why not go for this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christina_O

for that vintage feeling :D
Great one! But 'Christina Q' might be more a more appropriate name:up:. Considering most pirates like to approach from astern, maybe it's time to reconsider the idea of depth charge racks.:hmm: And of course, Javelin missiles, maybe a helo concealed somewhere...

[Brag]

Good idea, Rivet.

Some years ago, the Chinese Seamens Union contracted a small mercenary company to deal with piracy in the Straits of Malacca. I never heard what the results were. But, I think the Tsunamy there took care of a lot of pirates.

[Flamingboat]

I am having a problem feeling any sympathy for anyone dumb enough to cruise around anywhere near Africa, let alone Somalia. I mean really. I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer and I know you would have to be a total fool to be floating anywhere near that continent if you were not a part of an armed group.

[Paul.Saenger]

I am having a problem feeling any sympathy for anyone dumb enough to cruise around anywhere near Africa, let alone Somalia. I mean really. I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer and I know you would have to be a total fool to be floating anywhere near that continent if you were not a part of an armed group.
So what about the merchantmen (including my brother) who have no choice but to use that route due to time/money concerns? Furthermore, what makes you think that the Pirates won't simply move their base of operations if the sea lanes get changed (which is impossible for Indonesia and Somalia btw).

But I guess it is just easier to call them dumb.


Pirates one time thought a Russian BDK (http://flot.sevastopol.info/photos/photo_desant/orsk_03.jpg) to be a freighter and attacked it despite the Russian commander literally shouting "You do not want to do this" at them and even showing the guns. Needless to say, the pirates were blown to pieces.
Don't have a link to a news story about that, do you? That would be cool to pass around to some folks I know.

Reminds me of this story.
It was before the advent of the internet. However, in recent news Pirates tried this stunt again (http://www.ipcs.org/Terrorism_kashmirLevel2.jsp?action=showView&kValue=233&subCatID=1014&status=article&mod=g):

Surprisingly warships have also not escaped. For instance, the Russian Federation Navy Ship Nikolai Vilkor, a 3,400 ton Alligator class amphibious vessel was pursued by pirates though it focused its searchlights on its guns to show that it was a dangerous target, and even fired warning shots to deter the doughty pirates. However, the warship was still followed for about an hour.
The Russian commander must have had a nice soothing cup of tea that day.

[Flamingboat]

So what about the merchantmen (including my brother) who have no choice but to use that route due to time/money concerns? Furthermore, what makes you think that the Pirates won't simply move their base of operations if the sea lanes get changed (which is impossible for Indonesia and Somalia btw).

But I guess it is just easier to call them dumb.

It is dumb to go anywhere near the African coast, especially Somalia if you are alone or are not armed to the teeth. American special ops got a beat down in 1993 in Somalia, so it's kind of a rough neighborhood.

You brother can cruise on by there all he wants, but if he isn't well armed or well protected, don't come looking for sympathy when some Africans use him for fish food.

[Jimbuna]

It is obviously not the best areas to sail in, but if that is where the charter takes you, then so be it.

At the very least, ships should maintain a hightened state of alert and the international community should share the burdon/responsibility for policing these waters to allow freedom of trade and travel.

[Paul.Saenger]

You brother can cruise on by there all he wants, but if he isn't well armed or well protected, don't come looking for sympathy when some Africans use him for fish food.
That is quite a nice attitude you have there. Really, class act.

I hear driving on the road is dangerous. Obviously, you can drive all you want, but unless you drive a tank, don't come looking for sympathy from me if some drunk driver runs you over.

Don't you know that merchant ships are not allowed to arm themselves?

[Kruger]

There is one thing that I do not understand. Practically it is impossible to climb aboard a ship while it is moving, especially if you are using a small vessel like these pirates do. More than this, all ships have radars. You can take evasive maneuvers (even if you are sailing on a huge container ship), you can call for help, you can increase, decrease speed, etc etc. The boats that pirates use are usually fast and small. They do not have such a long range, meaning that most of the attacks must take place relatively close to shore. I mean....DO SOMETHING, don't just expect them to get away. If you keep zigzagging violently, no ship can get close to you, for it would be rammed.

[Flamingboat]

You brother can cruise on by there all he wants, but if he isn't well armed or well protected, don't come looking for sympathy when some Africans use him for fish food.
That is quite a nice attitude you have there. Really, class act.

I hear driving on the road is dangerous. Obviously, you can drive all you want, but unless you drive a tank, don't come looking for sympathy from me if some drunk driver runs you over.

Don't you know that merchant ships are not allowed to arm themselves?

So I have an attitude for saying it's foolish to go cruising around Somalia with a "rob and kill me" sign on my back. No, we call it common sense where I am from. There are parts of the world, especially Somalia where people will cut your head off with the indifference one would display drinking a soda. Don't be naive.

That is a poor analogy. We are not talking about driving on just any road are we? No, this is Africa, and Somalia at that. I don't need a gunship escort to go to the mall here in New England do I? Well, if I am going to what used to be the mall in Africa, I'm going armed in a group or I'm not going. Somalia is one of the most violent unstable countries in that area that sits in the ocean.

I didn't know merchants can't be armed. I suggest breaking the rules. If I gun down some dirtbags and save my skin then can come sue me.

[Paul.Saenger]

So I have an attitude for saying it's foolish to go cruising around Somalia with a "rob and kill me" sign on my back. No, we call it common sense where I am from. There are parts of the world, especially Somalia where people will cut your head off with the indifference one would display drinking a soda. Don't be naive.
Don't be naive yourself. You seem to be operating under the assumption that people have a choice in this matter. Your knowledge is even poorer than your manners and that is quite an achievement. Heck, read up on the importance of those sea lanes and then get back to this topic.

I didn't know merchants can't be armed. I suggest breaking the rules. If I gun down some dirtbags and save my skin then can come sue me.
Oh yeah, that is a great idea. Just where are they supposed to get the guns in the first place? It is not like you can just order a 4inch gun at amazon.co.uk, you know.
Small arms are no go too - by the time the crew would be armed and ready, the pirates would already have closed to a range where their numerical superiority would make any defense pointless.

Furthermore, any merchant ship that is caught with weapons is in a big pile of trouble. Any captain or mariner caught with installing weapons on his ship would loose his commission and be thrown in jail to boot. Furthermore, every ship is inspected when it reaches any port, so hiding them isn't an option at all.

And to top it all off, nobody becomes a fighter just by handling a gun. Those pirates are killers. Merchantmen are not.

But yeah, it sure is easy making such "suggestions" as "just break the rules", innit?

[Flamingboat]

I see the US Navy shares my views on the matter.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/africa/09/24/somalia.pirates/index.html

British I see. Has to be since you are mocking my lack of manners. I can't deny it, I don't know how to properly hold my fork. I like the Brits, but you are the "former" masters of the sea. Now sit back and let the grown ups handle this. *cough, US Navy *cough.

Your man doesn't have a choice? I didn't know people still used forced slave labor on merchants ships. Facinating. Oh wait. He isn't forced is he? No, he gets paid doesn't he? In that case he has the option to withdraw and work elsewhere. The corporations routinely put human lives behind profits. If the work puts him in senseless danger with an easy remedy "weapons" and just "hopes for the best", he needs to rethink his employment.

[doulos05]

I see the US Navy shares my views on the matter.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/africa/09/24/somalia.pirates/index.html

British I see. Has to be since you are mocking my lack of manners. I can't deny it, I don't know how to properly hold my fork. I like the Brits, but you are the "former" masters of the sea. Now sit back and let the grown ups handle this. *cough, US Navy *cough.

Your man doesn't have a choice? I didn't know people still used forced slave labor on merchants ships. Facinating. Oh wait. He isn't forced is he? No, he gets paid doesn't he? In that case he has the option to withdraw and work elsewhere. The corporations routinely put human lives behind profits. If the work puts him in senseless danger with an easy remedy "weapons" and just "hopes for the best", he needs to rethink his employment.

Wow, dude. Thanks for helping confirm the stereotype of Americans that is so widely held overseas. If it weren't for people like you, I don't know what we would do. Probably be respected members of the worldwide community (where's the fun in that).

You know what though, you've got a point. Consequences be damned, he should just quit his job if it's dangerous. And while we're at it, what about those morons who work as coal miners. Crawling into enclosed, unstable spaces with a flammable substance. How retarded can you be? They deserve what's coming to them if they're dumb enough to keep that up. I mean, if their employer insists on sending them into the MINES to get coal, putting the delivery of coal before their personal safety, they should just quit. I mean, it's not like they need the money, right?

Dangerous jobs are a fact of life. Just because you are lucky enough to not have to work at one, doesn't give you the right to insult those who do. His brother is serving a vital role in the global economy, a role which he signed up for but which should be dangerous because of rough seas and rogue waves, not some jerks with AK-47s and RPGs.

Don't blame the victim for the attacker's crime. By that standard, people who get mugged in, say, downtown Atlanta shouldn't expect any sympathy from the police because they're the idiots walking around downtown Atlanta. "Don't you know there are muggers in Little Five Points!? We had two police officers shot at there last year!"

To our foreign friends, please note that we're not all like this.

[Flamingboat]

Again, I have no sympathy for anyone not forced into labor like your coal miner example. If they can quit anytime they want, then it's their choice.

I'm sorry if I look like a jerk here for stating the obvious. If you are going to the ghetto of the world where the only law is "AK-47's and RPG's" then you need to think for yourself.

You complain about the "rules" that won't allow you weapons, but do you really think the paper pushers who wrote that rule will give a rat's behind when you are getting taken hostage or killed? You would be lucky if they even made the connection that their rule is the reason you are in a world of sh*t.

You can call me a sterotypical American jerk if you want. I am. That is why you won't be seeing my boat on the news covered in blood with a bunch of Africans dancing on it.

My point is no one cares about you like YOU do. If the rules tie your hands, don't be a fool.

[doulos05]

You've apparently never lived in or near a coal mining community. Places like that aren't known for their job diversity. So the options are 1) keep working, 2) quit and either starve or live off the government, or 3) move. But moving 1) costs money, and 2) kinda necesitates a job at your destination. Coal mining doesn't really prepare you for any other job and a lot of them don't have more than a High School education, so where do they get a job? I'm not saying this guys brother can't find a single berth on another ship that doesn't travel through that area, but the selection may be limited and the competition stiff. In that case, he may literally only have 2 choice, keep working or starve.

But the root of this is that what you're saying is the functional equivalent of blaming the victim for the attacker's crime. Not only is that not really sensible (stupid France, they should have known Germany was going to invade and done something about it. It's their fault WWII happened), but it doesn't work in a legal sense either. It is not the merchant's fault that the pirates are there.

As for why the evil corporation insist on sending the stupid merchant so close to somalia, the reason is sea lanes. Don't blame the corporations for driving on the highway. Sea lanes are chosen for a number of reasons, obstacles, shallow/deep water, closer to land (in case of emergency), and efficiency. You don't move a highway just because a bad neighborhood grew up around it. You patrol the highway. But you don't blame motorists who have to drive on that highway to get to work because they don't pack heat in their car either.

[Flamingboat]

You've apparently never lived in or near a coal mining community. Places like that aren't known for their job diversity. So the options are 1) keep working, 2) quit and either starve or live off the government, or 3) move. But moving 1) costs money, and 2) kinda necesitates a job at your destination. Coal mining doesn't really prepare you for any other job and a lot of them don't have more than a High School education, so where do they get a job? I'm not saying this guys brother can't find a single berth on another ship that doesn't travel through that area, but the selection may be limited and the competition stiff. In that case, he may literally only have 2 choice, keep working or starve.

But the root of this is that what you're saying is the functional equivalent of blaming the victim for the attacker's crime. Not only is that not really sensible (stupid France, they should have known Germany was going to invade and done something about it. It's their fault WWII happened), but it doesn't work in a legal sense either. It is not the merchant's fault that the pirates are there.

As for why the evil corporation insist on sending the stupid merchant so close to somalia, the reason is sea lanes. Don't blame the corporations for driving on the highway. Sea lanes are chosen for a number of reasons, obstacles, shallow/deep water, closer to land (in case of emergency), and efficiency. You don't move a highway just because a bad neighborhood grew up around it. You patrol the highway. But you don't blame motorists who have to drive on that highway to get to work because they don't pack heat in their car either.

I'm from Virginia actually and have family from West Virginia. I've seen many of those towns that died when the coal mines ran out of coal. I know all about this. My tag says New England but it was not always so. I moved. Yes it is expensive. Yes, there are no guarantees. Frankly, I had to follow the money to a bigger better market. I have zero regrets. You just have to go where opportunity is. I know it's ugly up here, but she puts out! I miss the pretty mountains down there, but I don't miss 6.50 an hour jobs.

I know it's bad down there. A. Coal Mine B. McDonalds C. Military. No job is worth your life. You can go to West Virginia and see 60,000 dollar cars sitting in front of trailers. Those people gamble with their lives.

As for blaming the victim. I suggest you read The Prince by Niccolo Machiavelli and some Tsun Tzu. My point in mentioning these books is that they have two common themes. Wagging your finger at the bad man and saying "that's not nice" won't do you any good. It didn't save France and it won't saved an easy target off the coast of Africa.

If you want peace, you better be ready for war. Look at that US Navy vessel that fire the warning shots. Does he want peace? Yes. He only got peace because war was an option. It's the way of the world, ESPECIALLY the 3rd world. Those pirates left because they didn't want to die. NOT because they would just be "nice". Those people don't understand nice, they understand power and power only. Now before you get excited I'm not calling out everyone on the continent of Africa in that way. I am only saying that of the men with the guns looking for victims.

We can wax philosophical if you want, but you have to follow the golden rule of the 3rd world. "Do unto others before others do unto you".