Interesting encounter

[peabody]

Last night I was testing the Japanese Campaign and witnessed my first ever Hedgehog attack. It was quite impressive, especially since I wasn't close enough to feel the effect. :huh:. I am sure a lot of you already know, but for those who don't the Hedgehog launches projectiles much like a mortar off the bow of the ship, in a circular pattern. My scope had just broken the surface when I realized the V&W destroyer was headed my way and suddenly he let go with the hedgehog. Luck was with me, because he was way short. But it suprised me since this was the first time I had actually seen it. It opens you eyes!!!
So, I looked up some info and was very surprised at the advantages.
It doesn't explode unless it hits you, unlike a DC, so the DD can continue tracking you during the attack. What I found MOST interesting is that during a DC attack it can be up to 15 minutes before a DD can track you on sonar, because of the disruption in the water. (probably not modeled in the game)
Another point is that an explosion means a hit, not necessarily a kill, but a least they know they hit something. This is also a drawback because it does have to hit. But one or two will sink you.
Another interesting fact is the percentages given, this is from Wiki, that the hedgehog had a 25% kill ratio compared to 7% for the DC. It was not stated but I would suspect this may be due in part to the fact that with a DC a lot of time they are hoping to get "close enough" to do damage since they know you are in the area, where a Hedgehog probably wouldn't fire unless they thought they knew "Exactly" where you were.
Another advantage listed was the fact that the sub didn't know when to quickly change direction since they gave no warning of when he was going to shoot and they also didn't have to know your depth, since it was a 'contact' weapon.
It goes without saying (but I'll say it anyway:lol:) I didn't keep my scope up to see if they can reload and fire again, so 'in game' I don't know if one is all they can do, or if they can continue firing.

Anyway it was an interesting encounter.

Peabody

I eventually did make good my escape after destroying a Kent and damaging another. But I was a very cool experience to see the Hedgehog in action.

[ridgewayranger]

Hi,
I note with interest your comments on the hedgehog, because I am probably one of the few left that actually trained on and fired H/H, on Castle class corvettes, developed from the Flower class,not during the war, I hasten to add!
To add to what you already know, the spacing in the ellipse, the H/H pattern in the water, was such that if one detonated, they all did, adding to the destructive force. They obviously would detonate on hitting the seabed unless it was soft ooze. The weapon had a fixed firing range of about 230 yards and fired in pairs in a ripple, with each spigot displaced from the centreline to give the pattern. It was in effect a bunch of 24 spigot mortars. Needless to say, reloading was not easy, each bomb being carried to the mounting and gently (very!) lowered onto it's spigot. Each weighed about 35lbs, not a lot, but in heavy weather needing care.
The mounting was also used on M/Ls, and ships with limited deckspace by splitting it down the middle, so that it could be fitted either side of a gun mounting, for instance.
There is a recorded instance of a H/H being fired in harbour, much to the surprise of everyone, especially the local inhabitants, faulty electrics during a circuit test. Fortunately the built in safety prevented detonation.
H/H was superceded by Squid and Mortar Mk 10 (Limbo). If anyone is interested I will explain them another time.
RR

[peabody]

Hi,
I note with interest your comments on the hedgehog, because I am probably one of the few left that actually trained on and fired H/H, on Castle class corvettes, developed from the Flower class,not during the war, I hasten to add!
To add to what you already know, the spacing in the ellipse, the H/H pattern in the water, was such that if one detonated, they all did, adding to the destructive force. They obviously would detonate on hitting the seabed unless it was soft ooze. The weapon had a fixed firing range of about 230 yards and fired in pairs in a ripple, with each spigot displaced from the centreline to give the pattern. It was in effect a bunch of 24 spigot mortars. Needless to say, reloading was not easy, each bomb being carried to the mounting and gently (very!) lowered onto it's spigot. Each weighed about 35lbs, not a lot, but in heavy weather needing care.
The mounting was also used on M/Ls, and ships with limited deckspace by splitting it down the middle, so that it could be fitted either side of a gun mounting, for instance.
There is a recorded instance of a H/H being fired in harbour, much to the surprise of everyone, especially the local inhabitants, faulty electrics during a circuit test. Fortunately the built in safety prevented detonation.
H/H was superceded by Squid and Mortar Mk 10 (Limbo). If anyone is interested I will explain them another time.
RR

Thanks for the additional info, I didn't know they all exploded. Was it from the force of the first explosion that made them explode?

Peabody

[Sailor Steve]

Thanks for that input, Ridgeway; it always helps to hear from someone who actually handled or was near the weapon.

Another advantage hedgehog gave was that depth-charging was always done 'blind', in that contact was lost before the moment of drop; hence the later Hunter/Killer tactic of having one escort shadow the submarine and guide the rest in.

A side-note: years ago I was involved in a discussion on another forum that became one of those "us vs them" things. One of the British posters was pointing out that most Americans seemed to think that Hedgehog was an American development, whereas it was actually British. I said then that I had never thought about it before, but it should be obvious just from the name - if we Yanks had made it first it would have been called 'Porcupine'!

[peabody]

Thanks for that input, Ridgeway; it always helps to hear from someone who actually handled or was near the weapon.

Another advantage hedgehog gave was that depth-charging was always done 'blind', in that contact was lost before the moment of drop; hence the later Hunter/Killer tactic of having one escort shadow the submarine and guide the rest in.

A side-note: years ago I was involved in a discussion on another forum that became one of those "us vs them" things. One of the British posters was pointing out that most Americans seemed to think that Hedgehog was an American development, whereas it was actually British. I said then that I had never thought about it before, but it should be obvious just from the name - if we Yanks had made it first it would have been called 'Porcupine'!

If we had built it, it would have been called way toooooo expensive!!!!!:rotfl:.
Wiki says it was British.

Peabody

[SteamWake]

I remember the first time I saw these in action in the game..

I was like holy smokes what is that!?

boom... glub glub.

[peabody]

I remember the first time I saw these in action in the game..

I was like holy smokes what is that!?

boom... glub glub.

It suprised me !! But like I stated I was lucky, he shot in the wrong place, I don't know what he was shooting at but it wasn't me.

Peabody

[SteamWake]

I remember the first time I saw these in action in the game..

I was like holy smokes what is that!?

boom... glub glub.

It suprised me !! But like I stated I was lucky, he shot in the wrong place, I don't know what he was shooting at but it wasn't me.

Peabody

I actually saved a replay of it. I really dident know what hit me till I looked at it later.

Gained alot of respect for the escorts that day.

[Task Force]

That is why it dosent pay to have a type IX. couldnt they bomb proof the decks of U boats, or curve them in a way it deflecit the explosion/ make a device that messes with the detionator that bows it up after entering the water/makeing it not explode, Like a strong magnet on deck.:hmm:

[SteamWake]

That is why it dosent pay to have a type IX. couldnt they bomb proof the decks of U boats, or curve them in a way it deflecit the explosion/ make a device that messes with the detionator that bows it up after entering the water/makeing it not explode, Like a strong magnet on deck.:hmm:

Those round decks are awfully hard to walk on. :rotfl:

[peabody]

That is why it dosent pay to have a type IX. couldnt they bomb proof the decks of U boats,

They tried 12 inches of reinforced concrete but it didn't float very well. :rotfl:

Peabody

[ridgewayranger]

Hi Again,
Just to clarify the situation.
The detonation was caused by inertia, a delicately balanced weight was released under spring pressure if the bomb decelerated suddenly, only active afer a small impeller driven by passage through water, released the safety.
A large magnet would of course negate the degaussing already set up in the boat to minimize threat from magnetic mines.
The shock wave from the first explosion was sufficient to dislodge the weight of the next bomb, and so on. A form of chain reaction I suppose.
Finally, there is a lot of info in ASK.com under Hedgehog a/s weapon, in particular www.mikekemble.com/ww2/hedgehog (http://www.mikekemble.com/ww2/hedgehog)

RR

[SteamWake]

a delicately balanced weight was released under spring pressure if the bomb decelerated suddenly,

RR

So even a glancing blow would set them off. So much for the round hull idea.