High seas tactics...?

[Bulkhead]

What is your approach to attack a ship or convoi in ruff seas?
I am talking about manual targeting and high realism.

I just wanna hear the different opinions/ways to do this.

I find it very hard to do for more than one reason.
Difficult to make a distanse to the target because it goes up and down in the waves.
Water that washes over the periscope and causes me to loose the lock-on-target.

I have given up and dont bother trying:damn: , i just follow under surface or at radar distance.

Any tips and tricks?

[Bulkhead]

One time i got lucky with the bearing and target speed, and i fired 2 torpedos. When the torps are about to make impact the bow goes up and the torpedo missed, the other torpedo comes at the stern and when the bow goes back down the stern goes up and that one misses too. Both of them because they went too far under the ship hull.

[Peto]

I'll give a short answer for what I do in weather with winds 12 MPS or higher:

I track the convoy until dark and attack on the surface. I can typically get into 1000 yards on the surface in these weather conditions without being spotted (using RFB).

[JHuschke]

I'll give a short answer for what I do in weather with winds 12 MPS or higher:

I track the convoy until dark and attack on the surface. I can typically get into 1000 yards on the surface in these weather conditions without being spotted (using RFB). Sometimes I do that or I'll just stalk them until clear weather.

[seaniam81]

Plus shooting torpedo's in rough weather could be dangerous. I have heard of torpedos coming out of the water and having there gyros tumble and the start to make wild turns. (of course not modeled in the game)

[Pisces]

My tip might not be of any use, since it depends on how you found the target. I presume contacts reported on the map. If you found it from a map-report and intercepted it you can use the time since the message, and a rough range/bearing-line to target on the map, to get a distance moved since then. That is often accurate enough to turn into a speed. If not, shadow him further (at safe distance) while you try to get on his beam. You'll have to insert the value manually in the TDC/positionkeeper.

Getting course isn't as easy when he's on your beam, unless he moved very far since the mapreport. I mean, draw a bearingline on the map from the map report to the line representing the visual sighting (as best range as you can determine/guess) and see which degrees fit best. Range does not have to be accurate, but would obviously work best. Your best position for getting his course is ofcourse right infront of him or right behind him.

This doesn't give you range. But if you have the above, and only one range/bearing the solution has all it needs.

To sum it up, try to use all the info the map can provide you. Even that which is not immediately appearant. Use the 'memory' it contains.

[Hylander_1314]

Wait for good weather. THe fish are too dodgey to waste in rough weather. I avoid attacking in anything over light chop and winds.

[Sledgehammer427]

when i'm attacking in stormy weather i end around the convoy or ship and attack it submerged... generally the time of day dictates how close i can get to it or them before they spot me...so generally i just think what the japanese must see and i go on that....but i always attack submerged, because the TBT/UZO just moves too much to get any use, i have RFB on with 100% realism, so i don't have stabilise sights on. i'd much rather get like 3 readings from a swamped periscope than try to manage a stadimeter with the target going up and down out of my line of sight...just my personal opinion

[Bulkhead]

Yes, very useful. I was thinking some of you too dont attack in ruff seas and just stalk the target and wait for weather improvment.
Thanks guys:)

[Arclight]

You can use active sonar for ranging, and a bearing can be entered from sonar station as well. Pretty handy if you can't get a reading from the scope. ;)

Active sonar can be a bit dodgy with warships around however; they can pick up on the sound.

[Seminole]

Most of the time I just tough it out. In 15 meter seas you can manage with snap caluclations. Often you can incrementaly decrease your depth in rough seas ,without being detected, just enough to make observations possible.

Another possibility is just stay under and do a sonar approach. I was surprized at how effective these can be once I worked up the nerve to try them. I save these for unescorted single ships mostly. It is possible with multiple contacts but much more of a hassel keeping straight just which echo is your pidgeon.BTW- If you have 1.5 the special ability of Perfect Pitch makes sonar attacks really a piece of cake...though it does feel like you are using a cheat.

Yet another possibility is to just do nothing. Cut speed to zero and ride out the storm without attempting intercepts. Unlike SHIII where storms could last for seemingly months those in SHIV seldom last more than a couple of days. When I'm feeling especially lazy I choose this option.:yep:

[Bulkhead]

Torpedo attack without using periscope i find very hard, but i guess i just need som practice. Havent figured it out yet on how to do it.

[kylania]

Torpedo attack without using periscope i find very hard, but i guess i just need some practice. Haven't figured it out yet on how to do it.

Here's a video that shows sonar only targeting:

http://files.filefront.com/WernerSobe+Sonar+Only+Tutlwmv/;8914579;/fileinfo.html

[Bulkhead]

Great video, have to watch it a couple more times... But one thing that wasnt mentioned. Would it not be this accurate if the sub is moving? I guess the best is if the sub is stationary...?

[Arclight]

Well, it should be pretty accurate if you use the position keeper. Get all the data for a solution, activate the position keeper and quickly update the solution. But you're right; if the sub is moving, ranging accuracy will deteriote faster.

[The Fishlord]

My tactics in bad weather are generally to go in on the surface, all hands at battle stations and fire at least two torpedoes point blank at anything I find. If it has good visibility but bad waves, then I just poke up the scope a little. If the destroyers see me I just sink them, and resume the convoy stalking.

[Bulkhead]

Thanks, very helpful guys:)

[ntz]

servus, i can provide little log from current patrol .. weather was terrible, 66% of patrol was rough sea and the rest opposite .. surface like mirror ..

probably more annoying was calm sea with absolute visibility .. at the daylight there was very hard to approach target underwater, because they alwayes spotted my periscope and started evading .. successfully .. thus that i managed to sink all my targets at high sea .. i have following approach:

1) when I encounter target i just check his course and estimated speed from hydrophone (no measuring is possible :P, speed completely, AOB is visible from close as well as range to target is wild-guessed when below 1000m) and maintain some aggresive aproach triangle

2) approaching underwater in 25m deep and carefully checking messages from hydrophone guy .. i have also scheduled very short oversighting with periscope once per say 3-5 minutes when closer, just if AOB fits to my triangle solution

3) in meanwhile i prepare my weapons, switching to impact only (normally I use in 95% of cases magnetic trigger)

4) fun starts with final phase of approach .. i have almost all set except of exact range, which I determine by an eye seconds before attack .. i come close underwater at rough seas (distance to target 300-600m) .. i keep an eye on hydrophone and i am prepared to attack in 355-005 .. when target climbs from say 340->352 i go to periscope depth, raise periscope and finaly set AOB, estimated speed and range (the best is to attack ships you know .. where you can off hand a distance and other dimensions by an eye) ..

5) when I have set torpedo itself, AOB, some speed i just switch the locker for direction targeting via attack periscope .. open tubes and let fishes come out to water at usual angle of 355-005

actually everything is calculated on da fly and by an eye .. i don't bother with attempting to do it via notepad tools hence i'm approaching very close and target always the middle of the ship, now back to the story:

i wasted 10 torpedos for 3x 2kT and 1x 4kT frighter cargos (sunk all of them) and only 2x T1 and 2x T2 lasted in my tubes .. i was also short of fuel and was thinking about plan B if can't reach my docks .. then i saw yet another 4kT grenville type frighter in perfect course .. i decided last attack before getting back to base .. i badly estimated approach triangle and it resulted in my final periscope raise when target was ideally at 90aob but about 1200-1400m far away .. there was just one chance .. i fastly finalized my both T1 torps and put them to water .. in supposed time of target hit was my angle to target ~ 25 and growed fast (too much) .. both torps missed or gone below (dunno, 100% realism with no way to check) .. my last chance was gone, but ..

i started turning nose to target again and very furiously set both T2s (which i never use at rough sea and carry them for different scenario) .. dunno why, but i did get it a try .. i fired first t2 at fixed course and second one on the same spot but with even added more target speed to correct delay .. well, they are pretty slow .. my most fortunate double hit occured after looooong while .. both T2s (even second one corrected via target speed) hit the bastard and make him gone instantly .. i never since this hit attempted to use T2s on rough seas again ..

summary:

rough sea, 2x T2, datas taken by an eye and slow approach triangle resulting in tareting this way relatively small ship at 1200m == super lucky hit :)

regards, ntz

[raygamhu]

What I learned here on the forums:
1. rough sea torpedo set to contact, calm sea torpedo to magnetic( after mid 1943 when duds are more rare).
2. after periscope depth, raise the sub 2-4 feet to avoid the big waves, and you can check more precise the range/AOB. (In rough seas probably AI also can see your scope harder).
3.plotting is a must to determine the speed.
4. usually a salvo of 2-3 fish, instead of 1-2 is needed.

[Bubblehead1980]

Heavy seas can make things difficult.I run TMO RSRD, run 100 realism. Guess the thing that the boat wont actually broach in heavy seas and the torpedoes will run true.Now, be advised a ship may sit higher out of the water in heavy seas so have to watch depth setting on torpedoes. Night surface attack is definitely the preferred method here but if not possible.Say in later war when they have radar or too much moonlight etc, change how you approach a bit.For example, in TMO RSRD and stock periscope depth is 60 feet(should be 64) and if seas are heavy, you wont see much.Order 55 feet, it usually helps, if needed 53, once hit 52 Gato's conning tower comes out of water too much.Other classes will just have to fool around with to figure out different depths. Use visual, sonar, and radar to get your solution.

Rough seas are blessing if you have to attack submerged, especially in not so deep waters, it makes sonar conditions horrible, they usually have a tough time staying with sub or finding in first place.

Definitely makes attacks tougher, but not impossible.Now in a storm, its just not worth wasting torpedoes.I have attacked convoys in storms via a radar/sonar only approach but was low on fuel, hadnt found many targets and they would be pulling into Tokyo Bay soon so I went for it, sunk two ships without visual, speed and angle is key there, without visual angle is a lot of guesswork.

[Armistead]

My best attacks are in stormy weather, fog and rain, but not sure if you're just concerned about heavy seas.

The radar mod with TMO certainly helps. Still I try to approach so I'm shooting at overlapping targets. Course, before radar you can blast convoys on the surface with your deck gun in storms by getting close and shooting down the bearing.

[Aktungbby]

Thanks, very helpful guys:)
One ship one eel-Silent Otto: Always attack from in front of the convoy; Set all eels 4-5 meters and on impact for rough seas making sure the eelmann has max passive skills against pre detonation and preheat the eels; enter the convoy to get very close but mind the 300 meter arming distance and go for dead-on bow or stern hits to severely disable the vessels; This has the added advantage that the freighter engines mask yours and the escorts must turn into the convoy to pursue which increases your time-frame for mayhem. Have the bosun assisting with quick loading. Use the advanced depth scale to rise to 9 meters (Das Boot)to clear the scope and be in the con-any higher and escorts and armed freighters can get hits. Exact as much damage, dive and escape quietly and reposition to repeat or wait safely and pick off any cripples with the deck gun or eels as necessary; mind there are usually some escorts which will rush back to assist the cripples but not usually in time to prevent you from completing the business at hand. VON CLausewitz.: "In war everything is simple but some times the simple thing becomes difficult." hence get close, aim the boat and LOS! viel gluck kaleun. When rising inside the convoy, remember Oberteil Nicht Zuschlagen-don,t slam the topside... against a hull bottom like the Americans.

[magic452]

Heavy seas can make things difficult.I run TMO RSRD, run 100 realism. Guess the thing that the boat wont actually broach in heavy seas and the torpedoes will run true.Now, be advised a ship may sit higher out of the water in heavy seas so have to watch depth setting on torpedoes.

Had just the opposite thing happen, the torpedo broached just as it reached the target. The freighter was going down and the torpedo was going up and hit the superstructure just above the main deck and that is where the game showed the damage. This was way back in stock 1.4 i think.

Magic

[Rockin Robbins]

One ship one eel-Silent Otto: Always attack from in front of the convoy; Set all eels 4-5 meters and on impact for rough seas making sure the eelmann has max passive skills against pre detonation and preheat the eels; enter the convoy to get very close but mind the 300 meter arming distance and go for dead-on bow or stern hits to severely disable the vessels; This has the added advantage that the freighter engines mask yours and the escorts must turn into the convoy to pursue which increases your time-frame for mayhem. Have the bosun assisting with quick loading. Use the advanced depth scale to rise to 9 meters (Das Boot)to clear the scope and be in the con-any higher and escorts and armed freighters can get hits. Exact as much damage, dive and escape quietly and reposition to repeat or wait safely and pick off any cripples with the deck gun or eels as necessary; mind there are usually some escorts which will rush back to assist the cripples but not usually in time to prevent you from completing the business at hand. VON CLausewitz.: "In war everything is simple but some times the simple thing becomes difficult." hence get close, aim the boat and LOS! viel gluck kaleun. When rising inside the convoy, remember Oberteil Nicht Zuschlagen-don,t slam the topside... against a hull bottom like the Americans.

Head on zero or 180 AoB attacks give you the smallest possible target and if the target changes course you'll miss. Putting an American boat at 9 meters, 28' or so, means your boat is on the surface. In the game destroyers will fire at you when you are inside the convoy. They will kill you quickly. I wouldn't run any shallower than 50' for submerged approach and even at that in very rough sees you'll broach the surface every once in awhile.

There's no way to have the bosun assist in loading in the game and he'd just get in the way of highly trained loading crews anyway.

The Americans, on average, handled their boats much better than German crews. There was never a case where a slightly damaged American submarine surfaced and surrendered. There were dozens of German crews who did so. In fact it was so common that Admiral Daniel Gallery assumed it would happen in his attack plan for the successful capture of U-505.

[Aktungbby]

Head on zero or 180 AoB attacks give you the smallest possible target and if the target changes course you'll miss. Putting an American boat at 9 meters, 28' or so, means your boat is on the surface. In the game destroyers will fire at you when you are inside the convoy. They will kill you quickly. I wouldn't run any shallower than 50' for submerged approach and even at that in very rough sees you'll broach the surface every once in awhile.

There's no way to have the bosun assist in loading in the game and he'd just get in the way of highly trained loading crews anyway.

The Americans, on average, handled their boats much better than German crews. There was never a case where a slightly damaged American submarine surfaced and surrendered. There were dozens of German crews who did so. In fact it was so common that Admiral Daniel Gallery assumed it would happen in his attack plan for the successful capture of U-505.Exactly: it is possible to lead slightly at close range with the scope to compensate for minor vagaries in the convoy target's course.. those little rangers are shifty. Read 'Steel Hearts Iron Boats' by the crewman who surrendered with the U-505 and, may have left the scuttle plate too near the drain which enabled the US squad to save the boat from scuttling, moved to Chicago, and gave tours at he museum until his recent demise. We own much to Admiral Gallery, who trained a squad for the capture, and was instrumental in having the IX saved for posterity. I attended school there in the 70's, and have been to see it.:arrgh!: