Could be a good move on McCain's part

[Digital_Trucker]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26453942/

Pure speculation, but, what the heck, who knows?

[AVGWarhawk]

He needs to pick Hutchinson from TX. She has a solid record and she would probably sway the undecided Hillary supporters.

[Digital_Trucker]

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/08/29/mccain-vice-president/

Guess he went with the unknown. Time to start researching her record so when the media spins everything out of proportion..........

[Skybird]

It's Palin, from Alaska. the woman that came in from the cold.

Don't know anything about her. "Looks and gender" was the first thought when I saw the news and a picture. In other words: exactly the opposite of McCain! :lol: Call it a compensation move... :D

[UnderseaLcpl]

It's Palin, from Alaska. the woman that came in from the cold.

Don't know anything about her. "Looks and gender" was the first thought when I saw the news and a picture. In other words: exactly the opposite of McCain! :lol: Call it a compensation move... :D


Damn you beat me to it by a few minutes. I was thinking the same thing.

I wonder if what her position is on drilling/mining in Alaska and if it will affect GOP initiatives should she be opposed to them.

[Digital_Trucker]

It's Palin, from Alaska. the woman that came in from the cold.

Don't know anything about her. "Looks and gender" was the first thought when I saw the news and a picture. In other words: exactly the opposite of McCain! :lol: Call it a compensation move... :D

Damn you beat me to it by a few minutes. I was thinking the same thing.

I wonder if what her position is on drilling/mining in Alaska and if it will affect GOP initiatives should she be opposed to them.
She's in favor of it, she's a memeber of the NRA and she's a "pro life feminist". What else could he ask for (other than a few more years experience).

[UnderseaLcpl]

She's in favor of it, she's a memeber of the NRA and she's a "pro life feminist". What else could he ask for (other than a few more years experience).

A date?:D

[Digital_Trucker]

She's in favor of it, she's a memeber of the NRA and she's a "pro life feminist". What else could he ask for (other than a few more years experience).
A date?:D

:o:rotfl:Good one:up:

[AVGWarhawk]

She's in favor of it, she's a memeber of the NRA and she's a "pro life feminist". What else could he ask for (other than a few more years experience).
A date?:D

Good one is right! Nice looking women. I would have to say McCain made a very good choice. Reading up on her record, she stands behind her guns and does not let down. So, Biden, the Obama attack dog will have his hands full. She is very much a unknown and new to the scene. Funny how Obama talks of change then taps an old schooler yet McCain taps someone really new to the Washington way. I foresee the Hillary swing vote going McCains way.

[SUBMAN1]

Sarah Palin? Never heard of her, but she seems to be fairly conservative.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2d/Palin1.JPG/225px-Palin1.JPG

[FIREWALL]

We as americans need to look closely at who will be V.P.


In an instant THEY could be President.

[SUBMAN1]

We as americans need to look closely at who will be V.P.


In an instant THEY could be President.Very true. And if they become as powerful as Cheney, they can act as President when the real President isn't around. So even though she may not be President, she will be making some of the calls.

-S

[tater]

Unlike anyone else (Obama, Biden, McCain) she actually has executive experience.

It's important to remember the way congress critters work. They have a staff, and the staff looks at polls, and who is supporting them ($$$) and helps the Senator decide what to do. There is a long period of debate and back and forth, likely, and the bill then gets out of committee, then more time and a real vote, then it might or might not pass, might or might not get vetoed, etc. Time scale? Months.

Executives don;t have that privilege. Sometimes they do, but often they have to look at the data given them, and pick a path, NOW.

2 years experience like that certainly trumps Obama's meager experience in the Senate (he's missed more votes than he's voted on, I imagine (certainly a lot lately)).

Biden and McCain both have long-term Washington insider experience, which is useful for getting legislation through. Both have the domestic and foreign policy experience you might get in the Senate.

Bill Clinton himself said the other night in Denver that as governor, he had no foreign policy experience (and didn't suggest that was a bad thing).

She's an interesting, and a good choice, IMO.

When Obama, or Bill Clinton, back in the day, do something overtly political—and this choice is just that—they are praised for being consummate politicians. I think this is a cagey political choice. A little risky, but well-played.

[mrbeast]

We as americans need to look closely at who will be V.P.


In an instant THEY could be President.Very true. And if they become as powerful as Cheney, they can act as President when the real President isn't around. So even though she may not be President, she will be making some of the calls.

-S

Whats the phrase; 'a heart beat away from the presidency'? :hmm:

[Enigma]

Sarah who? :o

Stinks of desperation to me. Looking for the moronic "I'm upset it wasn't Hilary" voters...

[Puster Bill]

Sarah who? :o

Stinks of desperation to me. Looking for the moronic "I'm upset it wasn't Hilary" voters...

Actually, it's a very astute move.

First, it will grab away some of those voters who were going to vote for Hilary just because she was a woman. My wife was one, a middle of the road but leans to the conservative independent voter. She was excited about Clinton, and I honestly believe she would have voted for her. She doesn't care for Obama.

Second, it will help to grab in some of the base that has been lukewarm about McCain. Her being an NRA lifer and a hunter helps big time among the gun rights people and the regular sportsmen and women, and her stance on abortion helps with the social conservatives that didn't agree with McCain.

Then, you have the fact that she's held elected office for about the same time as Obama, so she's inoculated from the "not enough experience" attacks, and in fact she has executive experience, something Obama is lacking.

Also, she has actual experience with "change", being instrumental in getting rid of a corrupt republican governor.

Finally, she's pretty easy on the eyes, which is a pretty stupid reason to vote for one candidate or another, but humans being human we know that image counts (Nixon Kennedy debate, anyone?).

All in all, probably the best pick he could have made, and it certainly helps more than hurts his chances in November.

[Platapus]

I don't know how popular she will be with other Republican politicians.

She rose to power by turning in corrupt Republicans.

But I say give her a chance. The debates are coming, lets see how she does.

[OneToughHerring]

and her stance on abortion helps with the social conservatives that didn't agree with McCain.

Social conservatives? Oh I see, religious people outside USA are fanatics/fundamentalists but in USA they are "social conservatives". I get it now.

[Puster Bill]

and her stance on abortion helps with the social conservatives that didn't agree with McCain.
Social conservatives? Oh I see, religious people outside USA are fanatics/fundamentalists but in USA they are "social conservatives". I get it now.

Whatever floats your boat.

I know plenty of people who aren't religious, nor are they fanatical, but still don't think abortion should be as freely available as it is today.

Do not make the mistake of equating "social conservative" with "religious fanatic". To be sure, there is a considerable overlap, but at best the "religious fanatic" is a subset of the "socially conservative".

Or, more properly, there is an intersection of the two, because there are religious fanatics/fundamentalists who believe in things like liberation theology, etc.

[Puster Bill]

I don't know how popular she will be with other Republican politicians.

She rose to power by turning in corrupt Republicans.

But I say give her a chance. The debates are coming, lets see how she does.

That might not help her with politicians, but it is almost certain to help her with voters, especially ones that want "change".

[Nisgeis]

and her stance on abortion helps with the social conservatives that didn't agree with McCain.
Social conservatives? Oh I see, religious people outside USA are fanatics/fundamentalists but in USA they are "social conservatives". I get it now.

There's two ways to take that. One way is that fanatics outside of the US are ignored as fruitcakes. This you have an issue with as the fruitcakes have a valid point, with which you agree. The alternative is that the you are saying that these fruitcakes are fanatics and you find it incredible that in the US they are considered conservative, when they should be considered extreme.

I couldn't really grasp your use of sarcasm (sarchasm).

Can you explain it to me?

Thanks!

[Peto]

Going on a gut-hunch here: Considering that there is an ongoing investigation of her in Alaska for misusing her position for personal reasons, I believe that McCain just made the dumbest decision he could have.

[mookiemookie]

One of the McCain campaign's strongest weapons was the "lack of experience" card. They just trounced all over that argument by selecting a veep with a year and half of gubernatorial experience. Prior to that she was a mayor of an Alaskan town of 7000. People are going to ask themselves if they want Sarah Palin and her "qualifications" to be one heart attack away from the presidency. Not an unlikely scenario given McCain's age and health.

And I suspect her anti-abortion stance won't play well with the disenchanted Hillary supporters.

Biden is going to absolutely dismantle her at the VP debate. I doubt he'll be afraid of "picking on a woman" because heck, the GOP has been doing it to Hillary for years.

[OneToughHerring]

and her stance on abortion helps with the social conservatives that didn't agree with McCain.
Social conservatives? Oh I see, religious people outside USA are fanatics/fundamentalists but in USA they are "social conservatives". I get it now.
Whatever floats your boat.

I know plenty of people who aren't religious, nor are they fanatical, but still don't think abortion should be as freely available as it is today.

Do not make the mistake of equating "social conservative" with "religious fanatic". To be sure, there is a considerable overlap, but at best the "religious fanatic" is a subset of the "socially conservative".

Or, more properly, there is an intersection of the two, because there are religious fanatics/fundamentalists who believe in things like liberation theology, etc.
I guess non-religious people can be fanatics/fundamentalists as well when it comes to issues although I am yet to see the non-religious hordes who are against abortion in USA. Not saying that you wouldn't know the ones who are. Personally I would call anti-abortionism and it's more extreme variations almost uniformly a religious phenomena in USA.

Oh ok, by that rationale it is still ok to label certain groups of people fanatics/fundamentalists and others as social conservatives, right?

Nisgei,

not sure I follow you there. I'm just trying to distingish the line between fanatics/fundamentalists and social conservatives. Where exactly is the line drawn? Or is it, as I presume, more about something else, like for example the nationality of the said people and the access to power they have etc.

[geetrue]

She's looking better and better to me, except for trying to fire her sisters ex-husband from his job as a State Trooper, other than that she looks good.


Washington, D.C.: I was an apathetic McCain supporter until this. Now, I am energized. She does not have much experience but she is VP not POTUS. She seems smart, tenacious and just what McCain needs to beat the rap of "more of the same." This is definitely not "more of the same."


She does cause a problem with the Obama claim of more of the same.

[tater]

No, Muslim fundamentalists are dangerous. The US has had Christian fundamentalists in positions of power, well, forever. Nothing bad has happened (I'm an atheist, myself, BTW, no dog in the fight).

tater

[OneToughHerring]

No, Muslim fundamentalists are dangerous. The US has had Christian fundamentalists in positions of power, well, forever. Nothing bad has happened (I'm an atheist, myself, BTW, no dog in the fight).

tater
From who's point of view "nothing bad has happened"? I could mention the native Americans, I'm sure they weren't too happy about manifest destiny (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifest_destiny) and stuff.

[Enigma]

It's a hopeful vote grab. Pure and simple. And it exposes McCain's desperation...

[geetrue]

This is what the obama campaign office had to say as soon as the choice was made. In fact his plane was still on the ground.

These various split-second digs took full form in an official campaign statement moments later from spokesman Bill Burton:

“Today, John McCain put the former mayor of a town of 9,000 with zero foreign policy experience a heartbeat away from the presidency. Governor Palin shares John McCain’s commitment to overturning Roe v. Wade, the agenda of Big Oil and continuing George Bush’s failed economic policies — that’s not the change we need, it’s just more of the same.”

That statement arrived just before takeoff (about 9:30 a.m. MDT). Not 30 minutes later, senior adviser Linda Douglass, reading from her Blackberry, gave the traveling press a very different statement, this one from Sens. Obama and Biden:

This is the second message:


“We send our congratulations to Governor Palin and her family on her designation as the Republican nominee for vice president. Her selection is yet another encouraging sign that all barriers are falling in our politics and while we obviously have differences over how to best lead this country forward Governor Palin is an admirable person and will add a compelling new voice to this campaign.”


What happened?

Someone had a change of mind about going after lady Palin.

Now if McCain and Palin win ... the people that we always call they (whoever they really is) can now taught Obama for not choosing Clinton.

[Blacklight]

All I can say is... if McCain picked Palin to try to win the "Hillary" votes as I and a lot of others suspect, He couldn't be farther from the mark. The only thing they have in common is that they're weomen. Palin stands pretty much for everything that Hillary is against. Palin is Anti-Abortion, pro-guns, and pro-big oil. :nope:
She is NOT going to appeal to the Hillary people.

[Digital_Trucker]

I don't think McCain chose her to attract the Hillary anti-gun, anti-oil, pro-abortion vote. IMHO, he chose her for all her anti-Hillary qualities and to attract those voters who would have voted for Hillary just because she is a woman. She also can't logically be attacked by Obamas advisors as being inexperienced because she has more Executive experience than Obama has. She can't logically be attacked as a Washington insider. She can be lauded for her anti-corruption stance. Unless McCain missed something in vetting her that will come back to bite them later (allegedly having future ex-brother-in-law fired), he made a heck of a good choice.

[1480]

And you forgot the most important part, she is seemingly more conservative then McCain is :smug:.

[UnderseaLcpl]

Going on a gut-hunch here: Considering that there is an ongoing investigation of her in Alaska for misusing her position for personal reasons.


:rotfl: All women misuse their power for personal reasons if given the chance!

Heck, if my girlfirend saw me post this it would be "No sex for a month!"

[Thomen]

I don't think McCain chose her to attract the Hillary anti-gun, anti-oil, pro-abortion vote. IMHO, he chose her for all her anti-Hillary qualities and to attract those voters who would have voted for Hillary just because she is a woman. She also can't logically be attacked by Obamas advisors as being inexperienced because she has more Executive experience than Obama has. She can't logically be attacked as a Washington insider. She can be lauded for her anti-corruption stance. Unless McCain missed something in vetting her that will come back to bite them later (allegedly having future ex-brother-in-law fired), he made a heck of a good choice.

That's basically how my wife see's it. When I came home today, she was very excited and the first things she said: "He chose Palin, and boy.. she is a MILF... Oh and welcome honey."

Well.. that certainly raised an eyebrow on my side.

[Peto]

Going on a gut-hunch here: Considering that there is an ongoing investigation of her in Alaska for misusing her position for personal reasons.


:rotfl: All women misuse their power for personal reasons if given the chance!

Heck, if my girlfirend saw me post this it would be "No sex for a month!"

:lol: No argument there!!! And men can be equally guilty (not me of course :shifty: ).

Still--I don't see this playing out well for McCain. Might be a good long-term move on her part though... Everyone will know who she is now.

[AVGWarhawk]

Going on a gut-hunch here: Considering that there is an ongoing investigation of her in Alaska for misusing her position for personal reasons, I believe that McCain just made the dumbest decision he could have.

They all do it. Ask Bush. Wait a minute, he might be listening in on our conversation. A lot goes on concerning power and who knows what. I do not think this is some gross over-indulgence of power. None-the-less, questions were raised and need to be looked into. I do not think that is that big of a deal. I would hope when vetted they checked eveything. You know, if Biden can get past plagarism, I'm sure she can get past this.

[mrbeast]

I think this looks like a gamble on the part of the Republicans. I can't really see the numbers of people who would vote for Clinton just because she was a woman being that high.

If you look at her right-wing credentials all I can see Palin doing is attracting people who on balance would probably have voted Republican anyway.

Still its an interesting move by the GOP and either way the US is in for something different whoever wins the election.

[Platapus]

No, Muslim fundamentalists are dangerous. The US has had Christian fundamentalists in positions of power, well, forever. Nothing bad has happened (I'm an atheist, myself, BTW, no dog in the fight).

tater
From who's point of view "nothing bad has happened"? I could mention the native Americans, I'm sure they weren't too happy about manifest destiny (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifest_destiny) and stuff.


It was the Native American's own fault. They were on our land first.. :doh:

Our euphemism for Ethnic cleansing was "removals". It sounds so much nicer that way.

Lesson 1: It is not good to find yourself between an expansionist country and a coast line. It will not bode well for your future.

[tater]

The more I read, the better the choice seems on many levels. As for not meeting her in person many times, so what? You forget, McCain is a Senator. SOP for them is to have staff put together options, and they pick. From everything I've read since yesterday, the first impression most people have of Palin is that she's great. If you've been well briefed on her and her background by your VP vetters, and she wows you on the first meeting... executive decisions sometimes have to be made like that, nice to see he can do that without having to poll for 3 weeks to find out what he thinks.

She locks the conservative base, and energizes them. This secures the Rove electoral strategy that we know works, but only barely (2000, 2004). McCain still has his crossover appeal (uniquely for a Republican), and can get some of the more moderate dems. Her anti-corruption background doesn't hurt. Biden is an attack dog, but in a VP debate, if he attacks hard he'll look mean (sexism double standard, but the right has to avoid being called racist every time they disagree with Obama, too, which is BS)—if she beats him up, Biden looks worse (getting beat up by a girl). She's nothing if not telegenic, too. While she's very conservative, he personal story about not aborting (either with amnio data, or choosing to go against standard of care for a 40+ YO mom and not get amnio) he Downs Syndrome kid is compelling, and something rational women can at least understand, even if they disagree. Attacking her experience is dangerous ground given the top of the Dem ticket's even lower level of experience.

She's a home run for McCain, IMO. VP rarely helps the ticket, but can hurt. She certainly does no harm, and IMO helps him politically.

[Von Tonner]

Going on a gut-hunch here: Considering that there is an ongoing investigation of her in Alaska for misusing her position for personal reasons, I believe that McCain just made the dumbest decision he could have.
I would have to agree with you. IMO McCain had far better choices - some of whom would have been more of a challenge to the Dem ticket. Just can't see Obama or Biden losing any sleep over McCain's choice.


Reporters are already winging their way to Alaska to probe what Alaskans call "Wootengate," the story of the dismissal of former Public Safety commissioner Walt Monegan, who says he was pressured to dismiss state trooper Mike Wooten. Wooten was engaged in a nasty custody fight with his ex-wife, who is Palin's sister. As soon as Palin was selected, the Web was already buzzing with Monegan's claims that Palin is lying about her role in the personnel matter. And the beautifully named Steve Branchflower, the special counsel appointed by the state legislature to probe the mess, has opened a tip line for Alaskans who might know if the governor and possible vice president of the United States abused her power.
Branchflower's investigation won't be completed until after the election, but the facts so far aren't good for the governor. Palin says she had "nothing to do" with the Wooten matter and that she fired Monegan because she wanted to move the department in another direction, but an audiotape of a phone conversation featuring another state official, Frank Bailey, casts doubt on her account. Because the media loves scandal of any kind, especially one involving the potential use of public power to settle private family scores, this story will prove a distraction to the McCain campaign all fall long.

She backs the teaching of creationism in public schools and is against abortion even for incest or rape - that alone will surely make her a hard sell to the majority of women.

"What is it exactly that the vice president does all day?" Palin offhandedly asked CNBC anchor Larry Kudlow in July. Kudlow explained that the job has become more important in recent years.
I think I can hear Biden licking his lips at the sacrificial lamb that has just been thrown into his den.



On the face of it, McCain has failed the ultimate test that any presidential candidate must face in picking a running mate: selecting someone who is unambiguously qualified to be president.
Palin is a talented politician who has both support among conservatives and a compelling personal story. But her short resume in Alaska politics and her nonexistent national track record will make it impossible for McCain to argue with a straight face that she was the most qualified person he could have selected.


Surely the nominee in selecting a VP must ask themselves the "What if" question. When McCain asked himself that question what was he thinking!? How on earth does someone who was no more than a mayor of a town with 7-8,000 people less than 2 years ago be a 'heart-beat' away from leading the free world and convince McCain, who places much emphasis on commander in chief qualities, that she is the one?

[Peto]

Well--I just had a rather interesting conversation on my morning walk to get donuts (donuts off-set the weight-loss from the walk :hmm:)

I live in a Very Republican area. (I'm Independant myself and have worked for candidates on either side--whoever I thought was best for the job). This morning I had a chat with 3 Republican Ladies who are outraged by McCain's pick for VP. One of them is in her early 90's and plans to vote Dem for the 1st time in her life. Why?

They believe that McCain's choice is based on the shallow thought that women will vote for him solely because he put a woman on the ticket. All of them said that may have helped him IF he had picked a qualified woman (their words--not mine). They don't think McCain is giving women credit for not thinking about who they vote for but will vote solely on an emotiional basis. Having looked around the web and by talking to people it appears to me that the group of people most upset by McCain's choice is the same group he hoped to gain...

But it's early. It'll be interesting to see how this all plays out.

[AVGWarhawk]

Well--I just had a rather interesting conversation on my morning walk to get donuts (donuts off-set the weight-loss from the walk :hmm:)

I live in a Very Republican area. (I'm Independant myself and have worked for candidates on either side--whoever I thought was best for the job). This morning I had a chat with 3 Republican Ladies who are outraged by McCain's pick for VP. One of them is in her early 90's and plans to vote Dem for the 1st time in her life. Why?

They believe that McCain's choice is based on the shallow thought that women will vote for him solely because he put a woman on the ticket. All of them said that may have helped him IF he had picked a qualified woman (their words--not mine). They don't think McCain is giving women credit for not thinking about who they vote for but will vote solely on an emotiional basis. Having looked around the web and by talking to people it appears to me that the group of people most upset by McCain's choice is the same group he hoped to gain...

But it's early. It'll be interesting to see how this all plays out.

This is interesting Peto. To me, picking a woman looked to have been a ploy to get the womens vote. Could possibly be. But as Von Tonner pointed out, this womans view on abortion will certainly turn a lot of women away but, McCain had to pick someone with the same view as his. Somehow in my thinking, if I were a woman, I would feel like my intelligence was discredited just because you put a woman on the ballot and I'm supposed to be led like the lamb as a result. A lot of women who support Hillary see Hillary as a woman of substance. A women who weathered her husbands infidelities, not just once, but several times. Sure, Hillary has a few skeletons in the closet rattling around. Bill has an army of skeletons(IMO, Bill ruined her chances. He should have shut up, his time is over) . Yet, she puts on the smiling face, pulls up the boot straps and attempts to carry on life despite the curveballs thrown. Women respect that in Hillary. Women are bright, no one can argue that point. The Hillary supporters really feel they have been let down by their own party. They feel Obama is not ready and is an empty suit. At this point and 18 months of watching Obama.... IMO these women are right. Clearly, Hillary has the experience. Obama, not so much. Well, not at all IMO. I watched his acceptance speech. Full of flower, color, bright lights and inspirational. So are a lot of sermons I have heard over the years. Obama has not even remotely stated how he plans on financing these grandious ideas he throws out. I'm beginning to think he is telling me what I want to hear. Not the reality of it. Von Tonner thinks Palin is the sheep being thrown into Bidens den. From what I read, Palin is just as much an attack dog as Biden ever was. I think she is intelligent also. At this point, all of this is talk. Debates are needed forthwith and a lot of them!!!! All 4 of them need to go head to head. This will dispell, with any luck, who has a grasp and who is handing out smoke and mirrors. Point blank questions need to be asked. Point blank answers need to be heard. I don't need to hear about growing up in the south side of Chicago anymore. We got the point of disadvantaged right up to the magnate schools and a top college in the country attended. Enough of talking about "ME". That part is over. Time for tough questions and clear answers. Put the smoke and mirrors away. Do not give answers as if you are running for the high school class president. Give us some real substance! The next two months are going to be very interesting.

Oh, and give me a donut. :D

[Enigma]

They believe that McCain's choice is based on the shallow thought that women will vote for him solely because he put a woman on the ticket.

This is right on the money. If I was a woman, I'd be insulted.

Then again, there are alot of morons out there, from what I hear, who want to vote for McCain because they didn't get Hillary, even though they have opposite views on almost everything.

Another day in America....:damn:

[Peto]

A lot of women who support Hillary see Hillary as a woman of substance. A women who weathered her husbands infidelities, not just once, but several times. Sure, Hillary has a few skeletons in the closet rattling around. Bill has an army of skeletons(IMO, Bill ruined her chances. He should have shut up, his time is over) . Yet, she puts on the smiling face, pulls up the boot straps and attempts to carry on life despite the curveballs thrown. Women respect that in Hillary. Women are bright, no one can argue that point.

These must be good points because I agree with all of them ;).

The Hillary supporters really feel they have been let down by their own party. They feel Obama is not ready and is an empty suit. At this point and 18 months of watching Obama.... IMO these women are right. Clearly, Hillary has the experience. Obama, not so much. Well, not at all IMO. I watched his acceptance speech. Full of flower, color, bright lights and inspirational. So are a lot of sermons I have heard over the years. Obama has not even remotely stated how he plans on financing these grandious ideas he throws out. I'm beginning to think he is telling me what I want to hear. Not the reality of it.

I hope you're wrong as he's going to win (IMO). At the same time, I agree with you that so far it's all talk.

Von Tonner thinks Palin is the sheep being thrown into Bidens den. From what I read, Palin is just as much an attack dog as Biden ever was. I think she is intelligent also. At this point, all of this is talk.

I think Palin may surprise a lot of paople. Me included. In fact--if she does well in the run-up to this election, look for her in 4-8 years. Palin vs Hillary? Nothing is out of the question or the realm of possibility. US politics are on the edge of desperation. The deeper in trouble the country gets, the more insanity we can expect to see from all parties.

Debates are needed forthwith and a lot of them!!!! All 4 of them need to go head to head. This will dispell, with any luck, who has a grasp and who is handing out smoke and mirrors. Point blank questions need to be asked. Point blank answers need to be heard. I don't need to hear about growing up in the south side of Chicago anymore. We got the point of disadvantaged right up to the magnate schools and a top college in the country attended. Enough of talking about "ME". That part is over. Time for tough questions and clear answers. Put the smoke and mirrors away. Do not give answers as if you are running for the high school class president. Give us some real substance!

No arguement. Anything less from either party will be a disservice to the whole country (again--my opinion).

The next two months are going to be very interesting.

Amen!

Oh, and give me a donut. :D

Donut is in the mail sent C/O Torsk :up:

EDIT: I saw 2 more Obama signs in my neighborhood this PM that definitely weren't there before. (Repeating myself) This is a traditionally Very Republican area.

[AVGWarhawk]

@Peto,
I too believe Obama is going to win as well. A lot of factors play in Obama's favor and have been for quite sometime. The media has driven his campaign and supported it much more then any other candidate. He really is the media darling. When he went to Berlin I was looking to see what news entity would broadcast his first bowel movement in Europe. Obama speaks well. If he does not win, he should apply for a inspirational orating job. Unfortunate that he speaks of all the country ills but does not speak on how he plans on fixing it(herein is the problem). He could say the sun will be green tomorrow and the stary-eyed would believe it(hand me the Jim Jones juice). Although I stated we need the debates with hard questions and good answers. Obama speaks well enough to waltz around answers. He will appear confident and composed. McCain, not so much if at all. Public speaking is not McCains bag. So, Obama could say he will just ask the Federal Reserve to crank out more dollar bills and disperse it to the people as a way to fix those who are struggling. Sounds insane but Obama will say it in such a way that everyone will believe it. For McCain, the media has done nothing but down play his age. the media has painted a picture of McCain with one foot on a banana peel and his other foot in the grave. As far as the media is concerned, they see McCain keeling over as soon as he accepts the Presidency if he wins. So, we turn our attention to Palin. What does she bring since the media is shoveling the dirt on McCains casket and the general public believe the media is right? Shovel in hand to dump the next load of dirt. We see two old dogs (McCain/Biden) and acknowledge two old school politicians. We then see Obama as fresh faced and not influenced by the old school politics. We see the same in Palin. Really an odd mismatch. It is obvious that Obama picked Biden for his International knowledge (and his cursing ablility as well). Lets face it, the largest issue for Obama is his lack of International knowledge (in domestic IMO as well). McCain has a good grasp on International affairs(although a loose cannon IMO). It is clearly evident that Palin was picked for the womens vote and swinging Hillary supporters. A bold move but one I do not think will work. If these two debate, I will be watching, should be interesting. But, all in all, does the VP really matter? The VP just always seems to be back up if the president is killed or disabled, etc. Not much else. Really, what has Chaney done in 8 years? Last time Chaney was in the news he had blasted off his buddies ear while hunting. Not much more than that I can recall. What did Al Gore do in 8 years as VP. Not much. Hell, Hillary did more then Al every did. So, it looks to me like a write-in vote for me. I think I will pick Hillary and see what it gets me.

[LobsterBoy]

A lot of what was said here is true. She does have executive experience (though not very much), but she has no exposure to national issues. The debate is needed to reveal how much she understands in international issues. I would be extremely concerned with a VP whos international experience is no more than my own. She would need to prove to me that other nations would take her seriously, and that she knows of international issues with more depth than a staffers briefing sheet.

That said she's already better than Bush. The conventions have and will continue to reveal that everyone in politics give speaches better than our current president.

[Thomen]

They believe that McCain's choice is based on the shallow thought that women will vote for him solely because he put a woman on the ticket.
This is right on the money. If I was a woman, I'd be insulted.

Then again, there are alot of morons out there, from what I hear, who want to vote for McCain because they didn't get Hillary, even though they have opposite views on almost everything.

Another day in America....:damn:

What if he did not pick her because she is a woman, but for her accomplishments and because she has more executive experience than Obama and Biden combined?

In my opinion it is even more offensive to make the assumption she was picked first because of her gender, rather then her accomplishment or her integrity.

[Sailor Steve]

What if he did not pick her because she is a woman, but for her accomplishments and because she has more executive experience than Obama and Biden combined?

In my opinion it is even more offensive to make the assumption she was picked first because of her gender, rather then her accomplishment or her integrity.
Candidates don't pick running mates for their experience or skills, but because they think that choice will help them get elected. Way back in 1864 Abraham Lincoln dumped Hannibal Hamlin and went with Andrew Johnson specifically because Johnson was a southern Democrat and would help bring in that vote.

Be offended if you want, but at that level it's all about getting into the office, and not much to do with anything real.

[Thomen]

What if he did not pick her because she is a woman, but for her accomplishments and because she has more executive experience than Obama and Biden combined?

In my opinion it is even more offensive to make the assumption she was picked first because of her gender, rather then her accomplishment or her integrity. Candidates don't pick running mates for their experience or skills, but because they think that choice will help them get elected. Way back in 1864 Abraham Lincoln dumped Hannibal Hamlin and went with Andrew Johnson specifically because Johnson was a southern Democrat and would help bring in that vote.

Be offended if you want, but at that level it's all about getting into the office, and not much to do with anything real.

Oh, I am not offended.I think the whole drama is a total no brainer, because Gender/Race should not be an issue in the first place.

[Sailor Steve]

No, it shouldn't. But it is, and probably always will be, because in politics you don't have to prove your right, just that the other guy's wrong.

Kind of like religion.

[Thomen]

No, it shouldn't. But it is, and probably always will be, because in politics you don't have to prove your right, just that the other guy's wrong.

Kind of like religion.

True words.

[tater]

I would have to agree with you. IMO McCain had far better choices - some of whom would have been more of a challenge to the Dem ticket. Just can't see Obama or Biden losing any sleep over McCain's choice.

Then you really don't have the first clue about American politics.

This was a great choice, and Obama is plenty worried. The point of the VP choice is first and foremost, "do no harm." At best VPs usually help win a tricky State. That's IT. They are picked for entirely tactical/political reasons.

She's a far better pick than any of the other names floated before. She has the base energized—a weakness in McCain since he is not hyper conservative. That was the Rove strategy (which works, but only by slim margins). Energize the conservative base, and win by a gnat's eyelash in a 50/50 election.

Romney would have been accepted by the base, but they were never really jazzed about him.

As for the novelty of a woman, it is NOT about winning a few votes by women, but Obama does have a problem with female voters. He beats McCain among women, but only by a few percent. Democrats normally beat Republicans buy 10-15%, EASY. That was before Palin. McCain is already strong with women for a Republican, so Palin is not a factor.



She backs the teaching of creationism in public schools and is against abortion even for incest or rape - that alone will surely make her a hard sell to the majority of women.

She does NOT back adding creationism to the schools, sorry. She said that if it comes up in class (say a student asks about it) it should not be forbidden to discuss it (one way or the other, as it is now). She explicitly said she is against adding it to the curriculum.

Abortion? Well, with unmarried women, abortion is a knee jerk issue. It's far more up in the air with married women. I'm in neither camp (I'm pragmatically sort of on both sides at different times in the pregnancy), but I have to say, I was far less pro-choice after even the first sonogram of my daughter at 11 weeks than I was the day before that.


On the face of it, McCain has failed the ultimate test that any presidential candidate must face in picking a running mate: selecting someone who is unambiguously qualified to be president.
Palin is a talented politician who has both support among conservatives and a compelling personal story. But her short resume in Alaska politics and her nonexistent national track record will make it impossible for McCain to argue with a straight face that she was the most qualified person he could have selected.


Surely the nominee in selecting a VP must ask themselves the "What if" question. When McCain asked himself that question what was he thinking!? How on earth does someone who was no more than a mayor of a town with 7-8,000 people less than 2 years ago be a 'heart-beat' away from leading the free world and convince McCain, who places much emphasis on commander in chief qualities, that she is the one?[/QUOTE]

Obama is unprepared to be President. Having executive experience (Governor) is FAR different than being a Senator, much less a junior senator. Obama when asked a simple question suggested the answer was "above my pay grade." As President, you have to make decisions, not avoid them (he votes "Present" in the Senate a lot (and as a state legislator he did), and lately he doesn't even make the votes.).

Harping on her experience is a loser for the democrats, by all means keep at it.

Senatorial decision making is stretched over very long time spans compared to Presidential ones. Senate experience is great, but I'd argue that it takes longer to gain a given level of executive experience in the Senate per unit time than in actual executive positions. It's simple, look at the number of decisions a Senator makes per year. Ignore the unthinking party line votes, or Bills to honor someone. Look at Bills that require actual thought (not just political stuff). Writing bills helps, too. At most maybe a handful of actual decisions per year in the Senate on average (other than deciding how to raise money for reelection). Really active Senators might make a dozen or more decisions a year!

Obama was a not terribly active Senator for 2 years, then went AWOL to run for President. Palin made more decisions her first month as Governor, I'd wager.

[Peto]

Good points tater!!! I would have trouble justifying you wrong on any point you have made.

My "strategic" thoughts about this selection are that the GOP is looking to Palin more long run than short though (which may be Very Smart!). Get ehr into the spot-light now and if she does well with public opinion in general, she can be a serious asset moving forward--even if the GOP loses this election.

My personal feelings about her? I'm trying to be neutral at this time (and doing it well IMO). I want to hear her in debates and with more time, more will be revealed about her leadership capabilities etc. I do believe she's intelligent--she didn't get to this point politically just by being pretty.

She's in the spot light. It's really up to her what happens now...

btw--Good to see you still around tater :up:

Peto

[AVGWarhawk]

Some good points Tater. I would also like to point out on the abortion issue. One can not say Palin does not stand behind her beliefs. She knew her unborn child was to have Downs. Studies show 9 out of 10 women who know their unborn child will have Downs will abort. Palin carried the child full term and delivered. I'm sure quite a few here would be hard pressed to knowingly take on another life that will require extra attention and patience for the rest of their life. I would say she has some true grit when she could have had an easy out of a life long commitment.

Creationism, what she ment and as Tater pointed out, she was fine with teaching it in the classroom but that decision should be made at the local level.

McCain and dying. There once was a great President by the name of Roosevelt. FDR was a victim of polo. Most times he was pictured with his son who would hold his arm and make him steady. Of times pictured behind a desk to hide his wheelchair. He had what most thought as a crack for a VP. That VP was Harry Truman. Harry did a fine job after FDR passed. So, is McCains age and picking Palin really such a bad thing?

[Peto]

FDR was a victim of polo.

He got hit on the head with a mallet :lol:.

(Sorry AVG. I couldn't resist ;) ).

[Platapus]

There once was a great President by the name of Roosevelt. FDR was a victim of polo.

Never being one to leave a nit unpicked.

FDR actually suffered from Guillain-Barré syndrome, not poliomyelitis.

[AVGWarhawk]

FDR was a victim of polo.

He got hit on the head with a mallet :lol:.

(Sorry AVG. I couldn't resist ;) ).

Oops:88) ...but hey you knew what I ment:-?

[Peto]

FDR was a victim of polo.

He got hit on the head with a mallet :lol:.

(Sorry AVG. I couldn't resist ;) ).

Oops:88) ...but hey you knew what I ment:-?

Yes I did! :up:

[AVGWarhawk]

There once was a great President by the name of Roosevelt. FDR was a victim of polo.

Never being one to leave a nit unpicked.

FDR actually suffered from Guillain-Barré syndrome, not poliomyelitis.

Nit picking is ok...unless it is my wife. You get my point though. Is there really an issue with McCains age? I think the cracks who attempt to assasinate are more of a worry for me the McCains age. Let Obama keep up with his political hounds talking of demetia and being lost. Continuing that attack might prove to lose Obama votes.

[AVGWarhawk]

There once was a great President by the name of Roosevelt. FDR was a victim of polo.

Never being one to leave a nit unpicked.

FDR actually suffered from Guillain-Barré syndrome, not poliomyelitis.

I looked up Guillain-Barre Syndrome....it is a nasty disease. Yet, FDR ran a country!

[Von Tonner]

I would have to agree with you. IMO McCain had far better choices - some of whom would have been more of a challenge to the Dem ticket. Just can't see Obama or Biden losing any sleep over McCain's choice.
Then you really don't have the first clue about American politics.

This was a great choice, and Obama is plenty worried.

Less than 12 hours after Obama accepted the Democratic presidential nomination, McCain introduced Palin as running mate, surprising the political world.
So far, according to the poll, 4 in 10 Americans are not familiar with Palin; 38 percent of those questioned viewed her favorably and 21 percent unfavorably.
Men appear to have a slightly more favorable opinion of Palin than women; 41 percent of men view her favorably, five points higher than women.
Americans seem evenly divided on whether McCain made a wise choice in selecting Alaska's first term governor, who's been in office for less than two years.
Fifty-two percent rate the selection of Palin as excellent or pretty good; 46 percent rate it as fair or poor.
Is Palin qualified to be president?
Fifty percent say she's not qualified to assume the presidency if that becomes necessary; 45 percent say she is qualified.
In recent history, the only running mate to earn less confidence from the public was Vice President Dan Quayle in 1992.
Ultimately however, the Palin pick may have minimal effect on the race for the White House.
Almost 6 in 10 Americans say Palin's selection as McCain's running mate will have no effect on their vote. One in five say it makes them more likely to vote for McCain; one in five say it makes them less likely.
Three quarters of all voters think McCain chose a female running mate specifically because he thought adding a woman to the Republican ticket would help him win in November.
"If McCain was hoping to boost his share of the women's vote, it didn't work," Holland said.
"Women now appear slightly more likely to vote for Obama than they did a week ago, 53 percent now, compared to 50 percent. But McCain picked up a couple of points among men. "More important, McCain solidified his party's base with the Palin selection, dropping Obama's share of the Republican vote six points to just 5 percent now. The Palin selection did not help among women -- that may come later -- but it did appeal to Republican loyalists."
These latest stats IMO would appear not to support either of your two assertions above.

[STEED]

Heres some input from a phone in radio station talking about this.

American women now living in the UK and is a Democrat

"Thats just great he will most likely have health problems and even drop dead before full term letting in this no body who will blow us all to hell when Russia coughs over the USA".

American man on holiday in the UK swing voter
"This has to be one hell of a Ace card or the biggest joker ever."

British women
"Have they all gone stark mad over there!"

British Man
"She may not have the know all but when it comes to war she knows what direction to point a gun."


Over all I would say most callers gave the thumbs up. And even one said America could have there first Margret Thatcher is she dose a grand job and stands at the next presidential elections.

[Jimbuna]

I heard one recent quote referring to them on UK tv...."They'll have all the gear but absolutely no idea"

[Zero Niner]

I have a relative living in Hawaii, and is a registered Republican. She thinks that McCain made a bad choice in selecting Palin as VP.

[Sea Demon]

No matter what, the media will bash Palin. But the fact they're so vocal about it, kinda gives me the clue that they're worried about it from the standpoint that it may help McCain. I personally am not moved either way. As I only give a passing interest in who the VP will be. I've never seen so much buzz surrounding VP picks in Presidential politics. Someone's gotta ask why. Elections for President have never been decided by VP choices. The ones I care about are at the top of the ticket, and Obama is not even an option for me. The Democrat nominee gets worse every election. This particular one is so awful, I really don't think this choice hinders McCain at all. If the McCain campaign properly highlights Obama's glaring weaknesses, and keeps the focus on Obama's own lack of experience, we may yet avoid an Obama Presidency. Come November, nobody will pay any attention to the VP slots on either side....as usual.

[Tchocky]

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/front/la-na-earmarks3-2008sep03,0,284198.story

He he he.

Taylor Griffin, a McCain campaign spokesman, said that when Palin became mayor in 1996, "she faced a system that was broken. Small towns like Wasilla in Alaska depended on earmarks to take care of basic needs. . . . That was something that Gov. Palin was alarmed about and was one of the formative experiences that led her toward the reform-oriented stance that she has taken as her career has progressed."

Palin, he said, was "disgusted" that small towns like hers were dependent on earmarks.

Public records paint a different picture:

Wasilla had received few if any earmarks before Palin became mayor. She actively sought federal funds -- a campaign that began to pay off only after she hired a lobbyist with close ties to Sen. Ted Stevens (R-Alaska), who long controlled federal spending as chairman of the Senate Appropriations Committee. He made funneling money to Alaska his hallmark.

On a more serious note - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QG1vPYbRB7k

Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right also for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders, are sending them out on a task that is from God, that's what we have to make sure that we're praying for, that there is a plan and that plan is God's plan.

[Platapus]

http://ccinsider.comedycentral.com/cc_insider/2008/09/jon-stewart-ann.html

Jon Stewart did not even have to work hard to make this clip.

Ya just gotta love politicians.

[mrbeast]

http://ccinsider.comedycentral.com/cc_insider/2008/09/jon-stewart-ann.html

Jon Stewart did not even have to work hard to make this clip.

Ya just gotta love politicians.

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Brilliant clip:up:

[Peto]

:rock: :up: :rock: