Help with AI wingmen (IL2)

[onelifecrisis]

Guys, how much hand-holding do IL2's AI wingmen need when you're the squadron leader? If you don't give any orders, do they just follow you around blindly, not reacting to anything until they're shot at? Or will they, for example:
- attack the ground target(s) we've been sent to destroy as soon as we're in range
- attack incoming fighters when we're escorting bombers
- land at the base when we get back

all without you having to order it?
Thanks for any help.

P.S. I'm playing DCG missions, in case that makes a difference.

[Raptor1]

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

AI...that's a good one...

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

[onelifecrisis]

Actual Incompetence? :hmm:

[Raptor1]

Allow me to explain the Il-2 AI:

AI follows leader -> AI sees enemy -> AI tries to shoot enemy ->

Then you have 2 options:

AI rams you or somebody else -> Everybody dies -> The end

AI steals your kill -> looks for something else to kill

Repeat as nessecary

(They might or might not respond to orders, usually not)

[onelifecrisis]

Allow me to explain the Il-2 AI:

AI follows leader -> AI sees enemy -> AI tries to shoot enemy ->

Then you have 2 options:

AI rams you or somebody else -> Everybody dies -> The end

AI steals your kill -> looks for something else to kill

Repeat as nessecary

(They might or might not respond to orders, usually not)

Right. :hmm:
So this really is "dogfighting" in a literal sense.
Hmm. What about my wingman, my #2... surely he'll watch my back... right?
Right?

[Raptor1]

He'll watch it very closely for the right time to slam into it

The AI sometimes helps, but most of the time they are a nuisance

[Dowly]

You can try giving him the "cover me" order, but he usually just goes for the closest enemy, whether he's a threat to you or not. :rotfl:

[Kratos]

awe cut the ai some slack,they have an affliction....there freakin DEAF :lol:

[onelifecrisis]

Oh dear.
I have noticed a tendency for AI planes to fly into each other (and sometimes into me) but I didn't realise they were so... how to put it... badly organised?
Well thanks for the tips. I was wondering whether to bother programming some wingmen commands into my joystick buttons, but if they're really that useless I'll not bother.

[Raptor1]

Oh dear.
I have noticed a tendency for AI planes to fly into each other (and sometimes into me) but I didn't realise they were so... how to put it... badly organised?
Well thanks for the tips. I was wondering whether to bother programming some wingmen commands into my joystick buttons, but if they're really that useless I'll not bother.
Return to Base, that's a good one, often works too

[onelifecrisis]

Rubbish AI seems odd to me given that much older games had AI which was actually pretty good, at least in terms of following orders (I'm thinking of Total Air War). Anyone got a link to an interview in which Oleg is asked whether BoB will address the problem?

[Dowly]

Oh dear.
I have noticed a tendency for AI planes to fly into each other (and sometimes into me) but I didn't realise they were so... how to put it... badly organised?
Well thanks for the tips. I was wondering whether to bother programming some wingmen commands into my joystick buttons, but if they're really that useless I'll not bother.
Return to Base, that's a good one, often works too

ROFL!! That's one they always obey! "Red flight, Ret.." and they're gone. :p

[onelifecrisis]

Oh dear.
I have noticed a tendency for AI planes to fly into each other (and sometimes into me) but I didn't realise they were so... how to put it... badly organised?
Well thanks for the tips. I was wondering whether to bother programming some wingmen commands into my joystick buttons, but if they're really that useless I'll not bother.
Return to Base, that's a good one, often works too
LMAO

[Dowly]

Rubbish AI seems odd to me given that much older games had AI which was actually pretty good, at least in terms of following orders (I'm thinking of Total Air War). Anyone got a link to an interview in which Oleg is asked whether Bob will address the problem?

BoB will contain improved AI, not much more has been told by Oleg.

[onelifecrisis]

Rubbish AI seems odd to me given that much older games had AI which was actually pretty good, at least in terms of following orders (I'm thinking of Total Air War). Anyone got a link to an interview in which Oleg is asked whether Bob will address the problem?

BoB will contain improved AI, not much more has been told by Oleg.

Hmm. From what you guys are saying, the AI could be "improved" and still be sh!t. No interviewer has ever grilled Oleg on this? Those gamer sites are full of wusses. :roll:

[Dowly]

Rubbish AI seems odd to me given that much older games had AI which was actually pretty good, at least in terms of following orders (I'm thinking of Total Air War). Anyone got a link to an interview in which Oleg is asked whether Bob will address the problem?
BoB will contain improved AI, not much more has been told by Oleg.
Hmm. From what you guys are saying, the AI could be "improved" and still be sh!t. No interviewer has ever grilled Oleg on this? Those gamer sites are full of wusses. :roll:

I cant remember what all is discussed in this vid, but if you havent seen it before, watch it! Mysticpuma gets more answers from Oleg than has ever been said in the forums:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1866144906641648934&ei=hZuxSPDRIpSgiAKSyqHrDA&q=oleg+mysticpuma

[onelifecrisis]

Rubbish AI seems odd to me given that much older games had AI which was actually pretty good, at least in terms of following orders (I'm thinking of Total Air War). Anyone got a link to an interview in which Oleg is asked whether Bob will address the problem?
BoB will contain improved AI, not much more has been told by Oleg.
Hmm. From what you guys are saying, the AI could be "improved" and still be sh!t. No interviewer has ever grilled Oleg on this? Those gamer sites are full of wusses. :roll:

I cant remember what all is discussed in this vid, but if you havent seen it before, watch it! Mysticpuma gets more answers from Oleg than has ever been said in the forums:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1866144906641648934&ei=hZuxSPDRIpSgiAKSyqHrDA&q=oleg+mysticpuma

Watching now!

[Oberon]

So far my wingmen AI in my little island squadron have behaved themselves. One of them even sacrificed his life to kill Dowly who in turn was trying to kill me. I mean, I would have preferred if he'd just shot Dowly down but ya know, whatever works :lol:

[XabbaRus]

I had a bloody wingman take off my Rudder...

Also I told my wingman to come back after tootling off and all the way back to base I couldn't see him. Then as I was turning onto my base leg for landing I hear the loud broom of an engine and see my wingman fly over me...almost taking me out after one of my best flights.

[onelifecrisis]

Grr... I'm getting rather disenchanted with this game.
Is it just me or can an AI plane go faster than the same plane with a human pilot? Are the AI engines immune to overheating? Also, is the AI immune to blackouts?

[FIREWALL]

Hi Guys :sunny: I don't have any of those issues and they always follow the minimal orders I'm allowed in game to give them useing TAB key ect.

It ain't perfect but, it's all there is.:yep:

[Task Force]

Yea the Ai is kind of dum. Ive had wing men take off wings, Shoot me when they were trying for anouther plain,Ect.

The enmy AI is crazy and never stall, they can go at a 90 degree angle and come back down without going into a crasy spin. I had a US carrier based fighter come from above and go less than two meters from the prop infront of my BF 109( shot hem down as he went by):p Apperently the AI dont have a fear of killing there selfs.

[Dowly]

Grr... I'm getting rather disenchanted with this game.
Is it just me or can an AI plane go faster than the same plane with a human pilot? Are the AI engines immune to overheating? Also, is the AI immune to blackouts?

Yup, the AI cant overheat nor blackout. They also manage their engine perfectly. :roll:

[Task Force]

Grr... I'm getting rather disenchanted with this game.
Is it just me or can an AI plane go faster than the same plane with a human pilot? Are the AI engines immune to overheating? Also, is the AI immune to blackouts?

Yup, the AI cant overheat nor blackout. They also manage their engine perfectly. :roll:

Thats cause there superhumans,(and the enemy has a special button that makes them have super planes with suits that keep all there blood from going from there brains):yep: :know:

[Fincuan]

The AI sure does wonderful things, but yesterday I actually witnessed one stall and spin to the ground. I was covering someone who attacked a low-flying Hurricane and overshot, so in I went diving towards the Hurri. Before I got to firing range the Hurri pulled up sharply and spun to the ground. :lol:

See "AI-cheat pack" here (http://www.esnips.com/web/il2) for tracks on a few things the AI does

[Task Force]

The AI sure does wonderful things, but yesterday I actually witnessed one stall and spin to the ground. I was covering someone who attacked a low-flying Hurricane and overshot, so in I went diving towards the Hurri. Before I got to firing range the Hurri pulled up sharply and spun to the ground. :lol:

See "AI-cheat pack" here (http://www.esnips.com/web/il2) for tracks on a few things the AI does
You might want to remove that link if it has anything to do with moding the game unless you want to get thrown in the brig.;)

[Fincuan]

You might want to check the link. A track in this context is an IL-2 "recording" that can be watched with the ingame viewer.

[Task Force]

Oops he he:oops: Ill delete my post and youl delete yours:oops: Ill be over there--->

[Raptor1]

Don't think no one has seen it, mwahahahahahahahahaha!

EDIT: Bah, nevermind

[Task Force]

AAaah crap.:smug: Raptor just had to click this thread.:rotfl: Just to tell everyoue. The only reason I posted that was, Aaah... Oah yea I saw the words Ai and Cheat Pack.

[onelifecrisis]

Well, that explains a lot.
I guess I'll have to restart the campaign again as squadron leader, otherwise I'll just keep overheating my engine trying to keep up with my flight leader, and then blacking out as I try to follow him through a dive. :roll: :nope:

Thanks for the info guys.

[msalama]

Is it just me or can an AI plane go faster than the same plane with a human pilot?

Yes.

Are the AI engines immune to overheating?

Yes.

Also, is the AI immune to blackouts?

Yes.

Sad but true :cry:

[Task Force]

They may have magic planes but I still shoot them down.;) Also Ive noticed that I have shot bullets into the cockpit of a enemy plane and the piolet wasnt killed he just flew away?:huh: But I get killed under the same surcomstanses.

[onelifecrisis]

I restarted my campaign, this time with Overheat disabled and Blackouts disabled. Wow! What a difference it makes to fight the AI on equal terms! Finally I can keep up with my wingmen and follow the AI enemies through their rediculous high-G manouvers! It might be less realistic, but at least its playable this way.

Problem solved AFAIC. :rock:

[onelifecrisis]

They may have magic planes but I still shoot them down.;) Also Ive noticed that I have shot bullets into the cockpit of a enemy plane and the piolet wasnt killed he just flew away?:huh: But I get killed under the same surcomstanses.

I'm pretty sure I've killed the pilot on an AI plane once or twice. In each case it went down with no smoke and no pilot bailed out. Any other opinions on this?

[Task Force]

I restarted my campaign, this time with Overheat disabled and Blackouts disabled. Wow! What a difference it makes to fight the AI on equal terms! Finally I can keep up with my wingmen and follow the AI enemies through their rediculously high-G manouvers! It might be less realistic, but at least its playable this way.

Problem solved AFAIC. :rock:

I find that if you use the magic A button that you can keep up with your squadron and if the G get to high then you can press that button and it can help you get everything stright agian, I dont realy have a problem with black outs. They are normal when I am diveing a Bf 109 at 700 km at a 90 degree dive.:lol:

[onelifecrisis]

I restarted my campaign, this time with Overheat disabled and Blackouts disabled. Wow! What a difference it makes to fight the AI on equal terms! Finally I can keep up with my wingmen and follow the AI enemies through their rediculously high-G manouvers! It might be less realistic, but at least its playable this way.

Problem solved AFAIC. :rock:

I find that if you use the magic A button that you can keep up with your squadron and if the G get to high then you can press that button and it can help you get everything stright agian, I dont realy have a problem with black outs. They are normal when I am diveing a Bf 109 at 700 km at a 90 degree dive.:lol:

Yeah I know about the magic A button, but it only really works for cruising, not really any use in combat - and certainly not much fun in combat. Also, once your engine starts to get hot the A button doesn't seem to have any ability to magically cool it down again, and at that point I start to lag behind my wingmen even while cruising in autpilot.

Ideally I'd like to play with overheat and blackouts but also have the AI subject to the same limitations. But as it is, any prolonged combat will force me to throttle back eventually while all the AI planes around me carry on at full throttle. And I hate being out-turned at high speed by blackout-proof AI planes because they're just plain cheating. :x