McCain - Just your average "Every man".

[Enigma]

HA. (http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/campaign-2008/2008/08/22/obama-campaign-presses-the-attack-over-mccains-houses-gaffe.html)

The Republican presidential candidate started the fuss earlier this week when he fumbled a question from Politico about how many houses he owns. He hemmed and hawed, then said, "I'll have my staff get to you."

[Digital_Trucker]

It works both ways,

McCain's advisers are counterattacking by criticizing Obama (http://www.usnews.com/blogs/washington-whispers/2008/06/05/the-gop-takes-on-obama-rezko-online.html)for getting help in purchasing his Chicago "mansion" from a felon.
Their both politicians and they're both wealthy, out of touch with the "common" person and probably have lots of skeletons in closets just waiting to get out. As Steve said not too long ago, there needs to be a "none of the above" on the ballot.

[SUBMAN1]

McCain is an extremely rich man (more than you think). Not an appropriate question I would say.

-S

[Enigma]

Not an appropriate question

!!?

[Enigma]

Their both politicians and they're both wealthy, out of touch with the "common" person and probably have lots of skeletons in closets just waiting to get out. As Steve said not too long ago, there needs to be a "none of the above" on the ballot.

Obama isn't in the same ballpark as Mccain when it comes to being wealthy. But they are both politicians....

Obama made his money selling a book as far as I know.

[Digital_Trucker]

This is true. If I'm not mistaken, though, isn't most of McCain's wealth actually his wife's (the Budweiser heiress). Not that it matters.

[SUBMAN1]

This is true. If I'm not mistaken, though, isn't most of McCain's wealth actually his wife's (the Budweiser heiress). Not that it matters.
Yes. Probably a prenump in there somewhere.

And if Bill Gates was in McCains place, whats the difference? None.

Big Whoop! :roll:

Both guys are rich if you didn't notice.

-S

PS. If you want to start with Repub vs Demo on the richness scale - pull out Congress. I believe it is a 6 or 7 to one ratio in favor of the demo's.

[Enigma]

PS. If you want to start with Repub vs Demo on the richness scale
Yeah, so that's absurd. I'm referring to 2 candidates, and you drew the party lines. Not me. Business as usual....

Also, I thought it wasn't an appropriate question/issue? I guess that only applies to Republicans?

[Platapus]

I really hate being in the position to defend any politician, but I think this whole house question is a no-news story.

The press is making a big deal out of it because the average citizen tries to compare his or her life to McCain. Since the average citizen knows how many houses they own, the expect McCain to know.

McCain's life is not that simple. Both he and his wife are business people also.

He owns houses
His wife owns houses
He and his wife may own houses together
He owns rental properties
His wife owns rental properties
They may jointly own rental properties

For all we know, his wife's businesses and charities may own houses as part of the business/charity.

What is a simple question to the average joe, may not be that easy for someone with complicated real estate businesses and holdings.

There is plenty of better things to slam McCain on. This house issue is non-news. :nope:

[Frame57]

McCain said he would rely on people like Petraeus and Obama would rely on his wife and granny.... My oh my, need we look any further?

[Stealth Hunter]

We can conclude:

A) McCain is too old and forgetful since he can't remember how many homes he owns, and shouldn't even qualify to be president henceforth.

B) McCain has an issue with talking about his personal life on the campaign trail, even though he has no problem bashing Obama's personal life.

:rotfl:

[headcase]

Bottom line. McCain married a sugar-momma. He's got cribs he don't know about. The only beef I've got with it is that I don't have it so well. Show me anyone running for a national office that lives like the rest of us.

[JoeCorrado]

The point of course being that 99.9% of all Americans when asked, know exactly how many houses they (and their spouses) own.

The point of course being that for the vast majority of Americans, the number of homes that they own is quite simply.... ONE.

The point of course is that McCain may have known... but due to his advanced age, he simply forgot.

The point of course being that home ownership is such a forgone conclusion to John McCain that it just isn't a big deal- a home is much like a TV set for most Americans.... how many do YOU own? Did you have to give the answer a moments thought??

The point of course is that John McCain does not see the world as most Americans do.

The point of course is that John McCain may really, really, really believe that there is no serious problem with the U.S. economy. And from HIS perspective, maybe he is right-

The point of course is that I don't live in John McCain's world anymore than John McCain lives in mine.

And THAT of course, is the point. HE is the one who is not one of us, when "us" refers to an "average" American struggling to make ends meet.

For purposes of "full disclosure" - Barack Obama "owns" one home- and THAT one is MORTGAGED. Now that is something that I can relate to.

In closing, do not be surprised that this one story has the legs to last till election day- just like when George Bush Sr. was asked a similarly innocent question concerning the price of a gallon of milk.

[Digital_Trucker]

The point of course being that 99.9% of all Americans when asked, know exactly how many houses they (and their spouses) own.

The point of course being that for the vast majority of Americans, the number of homes that they own is quite simply.... ONE.

The point of course is that McCain may have known... but due to his advanced age, he simply forgot.

The point of course being that home ownership is such a forgone conclusion to John McCain that it just isn't a big deal- a home is much like a TV set for most Americans.... how many do YOU own? Did you have to give the answer a moments thought??

The point of course is that John McCain does not see the world as most Americans do.

The point of course is that John McCain may really, really, really believe that there is no serious problem with the U.S. economy. And from HIS perspective, maybe he is right-

The point of course is that I don't live in John McCain's world anymore than John McCain lives in mine.

And THAT of course, is the point. HE is the one who is not one of us, when "us" refers to an "average" American struggling to make ends meet.

For purposes of "full disclosure" - Barack Obama "owns" one home- and THAT one is MORTGAGED. Now that is something that I can relate to.

In closing, do not be surprised that this one story has the legs to last till election day- just like when George Bush Sr. was asked a similarly innocent question concerning the price of a gallon of milk.
Okay, so if I read your points correctly we should vote for Obama because he has one house and it's mortgaged? Do you really think Obama is one of "us"? That mortgaged house is worth over a million and a half dollars. He and his wife's net worth is somewhere in the millions. That makes him one of "us"? The only difference in how un-"us" like the two are is the degree. They are both wealthy and have no clue what it is like to be one of "us".

Oh, BTW, I only have one house and it's mortgaged, so I'd like you to vote for me for president. You'll have to write me in though because I'm pretty sure I can't buy my way on to the ballot.

[AVGWarhawk]

This is true. If I'm not mistaken, though, isn't most of McCain's wealth actually his wife's (the Budweiser heiress). Not that it matters.

Yes, his wife is a beer mogal. However, McCain only disclosed his past years earnings when asked. His wifes earnings are of no ones business but her own. I agree. But hey, if McCain gets elected....there can be on hell of a intergalactic kegger on the DC mall:up:

[Frame57]

I am a capalist. I think it is great when anyone reaches what ever level of wealth they work for. I would love to see this question asked of the billionairess' Pelosi and Feinstein. The reply would be their houses or rentals would be in the hundreds. Which is ok too. So I do not see the relevancy this housing question has with the ability to lead a country. McCain is a combat veteran, POW. Long standing public servant. Obama is wet behind the ears and is a junior senator with a shallow voting record. One will rely on seasoned professional for advise. the other has publicly said he will rely on his wife and granny. The choice is clear!

[AVGWarhawk]

The point of course being that 99.9% of all Americans when asked, know exactly how many houses they (and their spouses) own.

The point of course being that for the vast majority of Americans, the number of homes that they own is quite simply.... ONE.

The point of course is that McCain may have known... but due to his advanced age, he simply forgot.

The point of course being that home ownership is such a forgone conclusion to John McCain that it just isn't a big deal- a home is much like a TV set for most Americans.... how many do YOU own? Did you have to give the answer a moments thought??

The point of course is that John McCain does not see the world as most Americans do.

The point of course is that John McCain may really, really, really believe that there is no serious problem with the U.S. economy. And from HIS perspective, maybe he is right-

The point of course is that I don't live in John McCain's world anymore than John McCain lives in mine.

And THAT of course, is the point. HE is the one who is not one of us, when "us" refers to an "average" American struggling to make ends meet.

For purposes of "full disclosure" - Barack Obama "owns" one home- and THAT one is MORTGAGED. Now that is something that I can relate to.

In closing, do not be surprised that this one story has the legs to last till election day- just like when George Bush Sr. was asked a similarly innocent question concerning the price of a gallon of milk.
Okay, so if I read your points correctly we should vote for Obama because he has one house and it's mortgaged? Do you really think Obama is one of "us"? That mortgaged house is worth over a million and a half dollars. He and his wife's net worth is somewhere in the millions. That makes him one of "us"? The only difference in how un-"us" like the two are is the degree. They are both wealthy and have no clue what it is like to be one of "us".

Oh, BTW, I only have one house and it's mortgaged, so I'd like you to vote for me for president. You'll have to write me in though because I'm pretty sure I can't buy my way on to the ballot.

Good point DT. This nonsense he was brought up poor, yadda yadda yadda is just that nonsense. What is worse is what his family has given to charity with the millions they make each year. In short, about zero. Obama has not lived like the common man for years. In fact, he probably has forgotten what the common man lives like.....basically check to check. I would say he is not in the same reality as the rest of the common man is.

[Frame57]

How many politicians are in the realm of the "common man"?

[AVGWarhawk]

How many politicians are in the realm of the "common man"?

One hell of a question. Your small town mayors and such are still the common man. Very few but they are out there.

[SimNut]

Apples to oranges.

One candidate is on his 40's. He has had less time to accumulate wealth.

One candidate is in his 70's and has had more time to succeed and build a fortune. Don't forget that he spent many years in the military, a job that doesn't pay very well, so he wasn't always wealthy.

If you really think about it, does John Q. Public who owns one house, up to his neck in debt, have the smarts to hold the office of president? Those smart enough to have the job, are smart enough to aquire wealth.

The important part is not that they suffer the same fate as those who can't succeed in life, but that they pay attention to the issues that the majority of people are facing.

By your logic, neither of them could ever make a decision about welfare or unemployment because they don't collect it or don't have a job. So would it be better if the next president was unemployed and collecting welfare? At least he'd be "in touch with the people".

Sorry, I think I'd have to vote for one of the rich guys.

[Frame57]

McCain's family had wealth. He comes from a line of Military career officers. The blueblood type. A patriotic sort but make no mistake they had some serious money.

[Takeda Shingen]

Apples to oranges.

One candidate is on his 40's. He has had less time to accumulate wealth.

One candidate is in his 70's and has had more time to succeed and build a fortune. Don't forget that he spent many years in the military, a job that doesn't pay very well, so he wasn't always wealthy.

If you really think about it, does John Q. Public who owns one house, up to his neck in debt, have the smarts to hold the office of president? Those smart enough to have the job, are smart enough to aquire wealth.

The important part is not that they suffer the same fate as those who can't succeed in life, but that they pay attention to the issues that the majority of people are facing.

By your logic, neither of them could ever make a decision about welfare or unemployment because they don't collect it or don't have a job. So would it be better if the next president was unemployed and collecting welfare? At least he'd be "in touch with the people".

Sorry, I think I'd have to vote for one of the rich guys.

I wouldn't go so far as to label the poor as stupid. Being born into a rich family does not bestow intelligence.

[Digital_Trucker]

I wouldn't go so far as to label the poor as stupid. Being born into a rich family does not bestow intelligence.
So true. Just look at Paris Hilton as a prime example.:D

[Digital_Trucker]

I wouldn't go so far as to label the poor as stupid. Being born into a rich family does not bestow intelligence.
So true. Just look at Paris Hilton as a prime example.:D
Didn't she prove recently that she's at least smarter than McCain ? :lol:

I don't know if "prove" would be the right word:D She certainly demonstrated that she could read a script :yep:

[JoeCorrado]

McCain's family had wealth. He comes from a line of Military career officers. The blueblood type. A patriotic sort but make no mistake they had some serious money.

And then he cheated on his first wife, wrecked the marriage, and remarried for even more money, more power, more influence... but his thirst is never ending and he has now betrayed even his own morals- selling out to the political right wing of his party....

JUST TO WIN AN ELECTION.


How sad is that?

[Digital_Trucker]

How sad is that?

Just as sad as every other politician that's bought their way into office, which, I believe, would be the vast majority at the upper levels. I may be a cynic, but I don't believe that there is such a thing as a "clean" politician once you get above the small town mayor. They may be clean and have all the best intentions when they start out, but the current political system doesn't allow the "good guy" to hang around for long without being bought out by someone.

[Platapus]

I may be a cynic, but I don't believe that there is such a thing as a "clean" politician once you get above the small town mayor. They may be clean and have all the best intentions when they start out, but the current political system doesn't allow the "good guy" to hang around for long without being bought out by someone.

If you can find a copy check out the book "The Gentleman from Montana" by Lewis R. Foster. It illustrates the very point you made.

[Digital_Trucker]

If you can find a copy check out the book "The Gentleman from Montana" by Lewis R. Foster. It illustrates the very point you made.
Thanks, Platapus, I'll see if I can't dig it up somewhere (although that may be difficult, since the first Google search I did didn't turn up 12 sites wanting to sell it to me:rotfl:)

I can tell already that I would enjoy reading it based on the following quote from a piece done on the movie "Mr Smith Goes to Washington" which was based on the book (which the piece says was unpublished)

The senatorial attack on the film was lead by Senate Majority Leader Alben W. Barkley, who called it "silly and stupid," and said it "makes the Senate look like a bunch of crooks."
from here (http://www.tcm.com/tcmdb/title.jsp?stid=3771&category=Notes)

[Sailor Steve]

John Stossel in one of his books addressed the same point. He was talking about congressmen who swear they'll only serve one or two terms, and never, ever be swayed by a lobbyist. As soon as they get that first free limo ride to that first free $200-dinner, it's "I know what I said then, but God has told me I could do more good if I stay."

[Tchocky]

http://donklephant.com/2008/08/24/yes-john-we-all-know-you-were-a-pow/

Tangential to this issue, but is anyone else fed up of McCain constantly referencing his captivity as a kind of immunity card? A get-out-of-jail-free card.
I mean, the campaign response to the accusations of cheating at Saddleback was ridiculous. I think the the Dems were stupid to press this unprovable claim, but responding with this?
"The insinuation from the Obama campaign that John McCain, a former prisoner of war, cheated is outrageous."

There's an obvious benefit to this; it's a stirring story of personal courage. However, the point will surely come when it loses all currency and resonance. When a man can't answer a question about his favourite song without going on about being shot down, something's wrong. Especially when the answer is historically impossible.

EDIT - This stuff about politicians being an "everyman". Do you really want that?

[Von Tonner]

Agree with you 100% Tchocky. McCain's campaign manager even used his POW status in hitting back at the Obama camp when it criticized him for not knowing how many houses he owned. He said something along the lines that McCain spent x number of years in one house as a prisoner of war. It seems that this is going to be used ad nauseam by them when they have their backs to the wall.

"This is a guy who lived in one house for five and a half years -- in prison," referring to the prisoner of war camp that McCain was in during the Vietnam War.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/08/21/mccain_spokesmans_retort_obama.html

It is even starting to get the goat of his fellow prisoners at the time.

http://www.alternet.org/election08/95825?page=1

[Frame57]

McCain's family had wealth. He comes from a line of Military career officers. The blueblood type. A patriotic sort but make no mistake they had some serious money.

And then he cheated on his first wife, wrecked the marriage, and remarried for even more money, more power, more influence... but his thirst is never ending and he has now betrayed even his own morals- selling out to the political right wing of his party....

JUST TO WIN AN ELECTION.


How sad is that?Sounds more like John Kerry you are describing.

[Tchocky]

It's fun to look over right-wing coverage of John Kerry's campaign - http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/08/22/gigolo/index.html


Whether Kerry wins or loses the presidency, he will still be living like a king. For most people, that would be a blessing. But for someone who wants to be the president of the United States, having such a significant fallback position is actually a curse.
Alas, there is yet one other important consideration that should get us all thinking. Before they married, Teresa Heinz made John Kerry sign a prenuptial agreement. Which begs the question: If his own wife doesn't trust him with her money, why should we trust him with ours?

[Digital_Trucker]

Right, left, middle, it doesn't matter, they're all politicians.

[Frame57]

It's fun to look over right-wing coverage of John Kerry's campaign - http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/08/22/gigolo/index.html


Whether Kerry wins or loses the presidency, he will still be living like a king. For most people, that would be a blessing. But for someone who wants to be the president of the United States, having such a significant fallback position is actually a curse.
Alas, there is yet one other important consideration that should get us all thinking. Before they married, Teresa Heinz made John Kerry sign a prenuptial agreement. Which begs the question: If his own wife doesn't trust him with her money, why should we trust him with ours?What got me about that guy was the droves of Vets who called him on the carpet for lying about his service. All these politicians are filthy rich, so that point is moot to me. You will not be seing veterans enraged with McCain, he was the real deal. But now he is just another politician, like the rest. They will tell us what we want to hear and then perform another agenda altogether.

[Tchocky]

There are a few guys who were in Hanoi with McCain saying that they won't vote (http://www.military.com/opinion/0,15202,164859_1,00.html) for him, and Obama is getting 6 times as many donations (http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080814/military_donations.html) from active-service military.
There isn't an organised, well-funded campaign against McCain's service, like there was against Kerry's.
All there's been so far is Wes Clark telling the truth, and everyone on both sides falling over themselves to knock him for it.

[Sailor Steve]

What got me about that guy was the droves of Vets who called him on the carpet for lying about his service.
I was just the opposite. The questions of Kerry's service were valid, but not proven absolutely. And I didn't mind that he came back and protested the war. Lot's of Vietnam vets did that, myself included. What bothered me was that he ran on his war record, and tried to deny his anti-war record. He was so hard-core against the war, but he wouldn't mention that in his campaign.

That's one of the things that turned me off about Clinton. When the anti-war draft-dodging accusations cropped up the 'hemmed' and 'hawed' and pretended it didn't happen. If he had stood up and said "You're damned right I protested against that war! It was a bad war and I'd do it again!", I might have voted for him.

But we agree about politicians - anyone who is willing to run for president shouldn't be allowed near the job. The only one you can trust is the one who actually doesn't want it, and the last one of those we had was Washington himself.

[August]

Obama is getting 6 times as many donations (http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080814/military_donations.html) from active-service military.
No Tchocky that's not an accurate summation and you know it.

From the article:
The report tracked donations of $200 or more. It found that 859 members of the military donated a total of $335,536 to Obama. McCain received $280,513 from 558 military donors.
1. So how many privates and specialists (who make up the great majority of the army) do you think can afford to donate more than $200 bucks to a political campaign?
2. How does candidate A get 6 times as many donations but only receives a mere 27% more of the total? Saying he tells the truth is like saying you could trust the Russians to give accurate war reports...
3. Could 859 service members who are rich enough to donate that kind of scratch be representative of which candidate will get the most votes in November?

Oh and Wes Clarke is a politician, not a general. Anything he says is biased and slanted to the advantage of his party, the Democrats.

[Blacklight]

*Looks at the title of this thread*
*Spits out drink*
*Laughs histerically*
:D

[Frame57]

There are a few guys who were in Hanoi with McCain saying that they won't vote (http://www.military.com/opinion/0,15202,164859_1,00.html) for him, and Obama is getting 6 times as many donations (http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080814/military_donations.html) from active-service military.
There isn't an organised, well-funded campaign against McCain's service, like there was against Kerry's.
All there's been so far is Wes Clark telling the truth, and everyone on both sides falling over themselves to knock him for it.Wes Clark is IMO lower than Whale ****. I would never salute the man. He is an anomaly in that he made general. He is a socialist in his politics and should be keelhauled with Madelyn Halfbright and slick Willy for war crimes against the Serbs.