Further Millitary Action Possible?

[jeremy8529]

Is possible military action possible by Russia in response to the USA building a missile defense network in Poland? I don't think this artical tells enough about the "threat" by Russia, has anyone heard anything new?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080820/ap_on_re_eu/poland_us_missile_defense

""In this case Russia will be forced to react, and not only through diplomatic" channels, it said without elaborating." That is quoted from Fox News

[SUBMAN1]

As I said, we are closer to the brink of nuclear annihilation than at any other point in history. It is coming. I do suspect Russia will launch some day preemptively.

Time to buy more ammo. Time to move away from possible targets. Its coming.

-S

[nikimcbee]

As I said, we are closer to the brink of nuclear annihilation than at any other point in history. It is coming. I do suspect Russia will launch some day preemptively.

Time to buy more ammo. Time to move away from possible targets. Its coming.

-S

Great, 'cause I hate long waits. Time to run up the credit card.:lol:

[SUBMAN1]

As I said, we are closer to the brink of nuclear annihilation than at any other point in history. It is coming. I do suspect Russia will launch some day preemptively.

Time to buy more ammo. Time to move away from possible targets. Its coming.

-S
Great, 'cause I hate long waits. Time to run up the credit card.:lol:You'll be fine in Idaho. Who would want to nuke a potato field???!!! :D :p

-S

[nikimcbee]

As I said, we are closer to the brink of nuclear annihilation than at any other point in history. It is coming. I do suspect Russia will launch some day preemptively.

Time to buy more ammo. Time to move away from possible targets. Its coming.

-S
Great, 'cause I hate long waits. Time to run up the credit card.:lol:You'll be fine in Idaho. Who would want to nuke a potato field???!!! :D :p

-S

The corn lobby!:hmm: Big corn, haliburton,chenyrumsfeldbushexxonshell, you now the usual.:rotfl:

[Happy Times]

Where have they claimed the Patriots are for Iranian missiles?
Maybe their fears of Russia are justfied as Russian threatened to nuke Poland, Poles havent made such threats, Russia is digging a hole it cant get out of.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki II]

Just caught that myself - they hadn't said this one. On the other hand, Patriot is part of the missile defense, but clearly the capabilities of the system is not going to be useful against the unlikely, hypothetical missile from Iran. So, really, who's left?

According to the article, Russia mumbled something about "not only through diplomatic channels", and it became nukes?

Besides, targeting is just that ... targeting. Since you clearly are not an ally, Poland should have expected that Russia will add Polish targets to their to-nuke-in-war list. I frankly don't even see the provocation or meanness in all this - it is just what you expect when you suck up to another Big Brother.

In the unlikely event the Russians do take "military action" against those bases, it'll probably be either a commando or a low-level air raid that aims to make the destruction a fait accompli, similar to the Israelis and the Iraqi reactor in '81 or so.

As for Rice, I just want to howl a bit:
"Missile defense, of course, is aimed at no one,"

Any defense or offense is always aimed at someone. Otherwise you should have saved the money to build a school.

The idea that a defensive system cannot pose a danger to anybody was refuted by the United States in the 90s, when they stopped Cyprus from installing S-300 SAMs.

"It is in our defense that we do this."

Cool. Defense against what? Iran? Then what are these Patriots? Russia. Now at least this is an honest answer...

[Happy Times]

Just caught that myself - they hadn't explicitly said this one.

As

And i thought i was seeing visions when your post had disappeared.:rotfl:

[Frame57]

This is where that firebug on the movie "The Stand" starts to chant about "The Big Fire....":D

[Sea Demon]

Come on folks. Russia's not going to nuke anybody. Not Poland, not the Ukraine, not Western Europe. It's all talk. They can't. They will gain nothing but their own total and complete annihilation. Doesn't sound like a move worthy of their consideration. Looking seriously at it, I'm sure they're miffed at the missile shield in Poland. But they certainly have other options than nuclear warfare. It's worthy to note that an empty nuclear warfare threat will get them the least results to satisfy their concerns over the shield. Mr. Putin needs to realize that.

[jumpy]

According to a polish chap on R4 yesterday, russia has been invited to inspect all of the missile sites to ensure nothing untoward is being done, on an ongoing basis.
Some russian statements mentioned targeting these proposed sited with nuclear missiles. :roll:

As the man said, this in no way shows a polish intent to go to war, indeed polish history is full of invaders, something quoted by a russian source as the reason they (russia) are a bit huffy about the whole missile defence thing... 'cause russia is sooo besieged and have never aggressively annexed land and assets belonging for sovereign nations, oh no, not us... Using that logic you might expect the poles to be more like the russians claim to be. :lol:

Also mentioned by the polish guy was how the mask of russian diplomacy and 'partner states' is beginning to slip, revealing good old soviet suspicion and oppression.

More hot air and bombast as usual.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki II]

According to a polish chap on R4 yesterday, russia has been invited to inspect all of the missile sites to ensure nothing untoward is being done, on an ongoing basis.

Does Poland understand that even a completely defensive system can be considered a provocation? Does the United States remember it had decided such at least once?

Some russian statements mentioned targeting these proposed sited with nuclear missiles. :roll:

As long as they don't launch them just for this, I don't blame them one little bit.

Also mentioned by the polish guy was how the mask of russian diplomacy and 'partner states' is beginning to slip, revealing good old soviet suspicion and oppression.

Fake smile or real smile, when you keep kicking someone who's smiling, don't blame him for dropping it.

[jumpy]

Provocation to whom, exactly? Unless russia has unsavoury designs on foreign nations, why does it have to be concerned about poland? (we all know polands propensity for starting wars of aggression and conquest hehe)

Russia doesn't do itself any favours with its 'grumpy soviet bear' attitude and veiled threats against supposed allies.
On a personal note, I wouldn't swallow such a bleeding heart point of view from my own government, and especially not from a country with a history of conquest and subjugation and brutality like russias. Murdering dissidents in foreign countries and point blank refusing to hand over the prime suspects to the appropriate authorities in that country just goes to show that the 'means and architecture' of oppression are still in attendance, even if they are not publicly acknowleged.

Small wonder then that many nations view the former soviet union with fear and distrust, even today when we're all meant to be 'best friends' :roll:


Fake smile or real smile, when you keep kicking someone who's smiling, don't blame him for dropping it.
Perhaps so, but when that someone has a reputation as a totalitarian nut-job which precedes them through the ages, you'd expect such a 'reformed character' to show a little understanding and willingness to go a little bit further to demonstrate their good intent, instead of falling back into the old ways and habits of oppression and warmongering rhetoric.

[Thomen]

Not trying to defend Russia's threats, but it does makes some sense, if you look at it from a Russian point of view.

Base line is this: The Missile defense system basically nullifies the MAD, Mutual Agreed Destruction, that was the status quo during the cold war. Why? Because it leaves Russia and its allies (if there are some) defenseless against first strikes, and decreases their ability to strike back, if an attack should ever come out of the west. And that is, imho what all this noise is about. They see the west developing technology that would make it possible to strike with impunity.

[Happy Times]

Not trying to defend Russia's threats, but it does makes some sense, if you look at it from a Russian point of view.

Base line is this: The Missile defense system basically nullifies the MAD, Mutual Agreed Destruction, that was the status quo during the cold war. Why? Because it leaves Russia and its allies (if there are some) defenseless against first strikes, and decreases their ability to strike back, if an attack should ever come out of the west. And that is, imho what all this noise is about. They see the west developing technology that would make it possible to strike with impunity.

The 10-15 missiles can hardly stop russians from lauching in masse, they are free to develop their own.
I think they should invest heavily on these and some kind of Star Wars project also, as much as they can..:rotfl:

[Thomen]

Not trying to defend Russia's threats, but it does makes some sense, if you look at it from a Russian point of view.

Base line is this: The Missile defense system basically nullifies the MAD, Mutual Agreed Destruction, that was the status quo during the cold war. Why? Because it leaves Russia and its allies (if there are some) defenseless against first strikes, and decreases their ability to strike back, if an attack should ever come out of the west. And that is, imho what all this noise is about. They see the west developing technology that would make it possible to strike with impunity.
The 10-15 missiles can hardly stop russians from lauching in masse, they are free to develop their own.


That seem to make sense, but add the condition the nuclear forces are in and the number of missiles and warheads that are still under Russian control, there are not that many left that ought to make it thru a missile shield.. hehe

[Happy Times]

Not trying to defend Russia's threats, but it does makes some sense, if you look at it from a Russian point of view.

Base line is this: The Missile defense system basically nullifies the MAD, Mutual Agreed Destruction, that was the status quo during the cold war. Why? Because it leaves Russia and its allies (if there are some) defenseless against first strikes, and decreases their ability to strike back, if an attack should ever come out of the west. And that is, imho what all this noise is about. They see the west developing technology that would make it possible to strike with impunity.
The 10-15 missiles can hardly stop russians from lauching in masse, they are free to develop their own.


That seem to make sense, but add the condition the nuclear forces are in and the number of missiles and warheads that are still under Russian control, there are not that many left that ought to make it thru a missile shield.. hehe

Good for us.

[Platapus]

I don't think it is the limited numbers of intercepters that is bothering the Russians, it is the radars that are associated with it that have coverage over Russian territory. These radars can be used for more than just defensive missiles.

How would America feel if Russia put a big hockin Phased Array radar on Cuba with the justification that it will be used to guard against Mexico launching Ballistic Missiles against Cuba?

I believe that our reaction would be, what is called in international policy circles as, "going apesh!t"

Remember that Russia does not know what the American foreign policy will be in the future. For that matter the US citizens don't know what the American foreign policy will be in the future.

Russia, like all nations, has both the legal and moral right to take protective measures when faced with actual or potential threats. As long as they keep on their side of the fence they can gnash their teeth all they want.

If they invade Poland... well invading a sovereign nation is just wrong ain't it?

We may not like the Russian reaction to our actions, but it is hardly unreasonable if the tables were turned.

[SUBMAN1]

So it is OK to have big friggen monster Radars that are watching the rest of the world, but Russia is a special case? Every country has radars that are watching other countries airspace. Get over it already is what I say to the Russians. It's not like that is going to be much different that a sat flying overhead!

If Cuba put up a friggen monster radar, I don't think anyone would care. The US Airspace is so saturated with RADAR anyway.

-S

[Happy Times]

So it is OK to have big friggen monster Radars that are watching the rest of the world, but Russia is a special case? Every country has radars that are watching other countries airspace. Get over it already is what I say to the Russians. It's not like that is going to be much different that a sat flying overhead!

If Cuba put up a friggen monster radar, I don't think anyone would care. The US Airspace is so saturated with RADAR anyway.

-S

:rotfl:

[Sea Demon]

So it is OK to have big friggen monster Radars that are watching the rest of the world, but Russia is a special case? Every country has radars that are watching other countries airspace. Get over it already is what I say to the Russians. It's not like that is going to be much different that a sat flying overhead!

If Cuba put up a friggen monster radar, I don't think anyone would care. The US Airspace is so saturated with RADAR anyway.

-S
Yep. We do know the Russians don't like that big radar. Part of the significance to them is that it negates their ability to conduct a successful first strike against NATO countries. Lots of Early Warning for us. :up: What Russia doesn't consider is that we already have significant Early Warning capabilities with NORAD radars in North America and redundant space based systems. Mr. Putin, we can already see well inside your country. But if Russia is not hostile, is peaceful, and doesn't intend to conduct a nuclear first strike.......what are they worried about? Like was said above, this system would not be able to stop Russia from throwing a massed nuclear missile strike our way. The Russian's systems may not be as reliable as in the old days, but they are still plenty reliable and in significant enough numbers. What they don't like is our added Early Warning. But it really doesn't add much to what we already have in that area.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki II]

Perhaps so, but when that someone has a reputation as a totalitarian nut-job which precedes them through the ages, you'd expect such a 'reformed character' to show a little understanding and willingness to go a little bit further to demonstrate their good intent, instead of falling back into the old ways and habits of oppression and warmongering rhetoric.

Actually, they tried this stuff for 15 or so years. Poland, Czech ... etc reward them by joining NATO. I can see why they are trying something else now.

Not trying to defend Russia's threats, but it does makes some sense, if you look at it from a Russian point of view.

Base line is this: The Missile defense system basically nullifies the MAD, Mutual Agreed Destruction, that was the status quo during the cold war. Why? Because it leaves Russia and its allies (if there are some) defenseless against first strikes, and decreases their ability to strike back, if an attack should ever come out of the west. And that is, imho what all this noise is about. They see the west developing technology that would make it possible to strike with impunity.

Such considerations were what was behind the ABM Treaty and also behind the US's objection to Cyprus gaining S-300s. Of course, when it comes to Russia ... all such calcs went out the window.

What Russia doesn't consider is that we already have significant Early Warning capabilities with NORAD radars in North America and redundant space based systems.

NORAD radars in North America, thanks to line of sight, can only see missiles as they rise very high, or bombers as they approach. Space based surveillance can spot ICBM flashes as they launch. Neither is comparable to what a high capability radar close to the Russian border can see.

Mr. Putin, we can already see well inside your country. But if Russia is not hostile, is peaceful, and doesn't intend to conduct a nuclear first strike.......what are they worried about?

They are worried about how reducing their options in that direction, and how that affects the balance of power.

And before you laugh, I say again, the US has actually accepted and even promoted this viewpoint with Cyprus, and that's b/w nominal NATO allies.