How much do you get penalized for refusing BDU's orders?

[Paul Riley]

I have just been assigned a rather ridiculous patrol in grid GR89,and as you know that is about as far down the bloody world as you can get,with no activity down there whatsoever!I thought to myself this cant be right,and I'm not gonna go all that way down there to find nothing,so,what I have decided to do is cut my assigned patrol down a bit and make sail for F.Town instead,and intercept shipping in that area,which is enroute in any case.
Why on earth would BDU send a boat all the way down there in 1942?,its not like they are desperate yet to make even the slightest impact on allied shipping is it?.
Now,i've never refused an assigned patrol yet,so by refusing how much will I get penalized for this transgretion,and will there be any further serious action taken?I imagine in real life there may have been a court martial for this,or worse :o:dead:
What I plan to do is sink as much as I can and earn as much renown as possible,to try and counter the penalty.

:up:

[meduza]

In the stock game, you get 500 renown points for reaching your patrol grid, and 200 points for patrolling it for 24 hours. That's your penalty - you won't get those 700 renown.

With GWX you don't get any renown for reaching or patrolling the grid, so you may as well skip it.

[Paul Riley]

Makes you wonder then what the point of them assigining you a grid in the first place is,may as well just sail where you like,and to hell with em.
And the penalty is quite harsh I think.700?,bloody hell,thats bad :nope:
I dont even think that grid square I mentioned is even valid,do you?.Could this be some sort of bug?.
And how is renown calculated anyway?,is it on ship size?,weight of cargo?etc.

[irish1958]

In real life, of course, you get shot.:dead: :dead: :down:

[baggygreen]

there are bugs in the game, for example one which tells you to patrol the norway-sweden border :lol:

Renown is something to do with tonnage i believe, and going to GR89 in 42 is possibly unrealistic. But, you could look at it from a perspective of a pathfinder for later missions to the area and beyond into the Indian Ocean.:)

[Reece]

I put the renown back, I thought it was better to have it there, however I halved the values, one thing I find in SH3 is that you get promoted too quickly, after a few patrols you have every medal there is, I don't know if this can be adjusted, probably!:yep:

[Paul Riley]

To hell with BDU and their insane ramblings! I aint going to GR89,not this early in the war anyway! :rock: <-- that is the 2 fingered salute in this scenario.
I have also just developed a SERIOUS problem with both the diesels and the electrics,due to the malfunctions tweak in Commander.Another reason why plodding down to the end of the Earth is out of the question!,man it would take years!.
I am managing about 7kts when set to 12kts,and submerged is just totally pathetic,a measly 1-2kts at 1/3.Don't get me wrong,I like this tweak as it has forced me to make some serious decisions for a change,whereas before I didnt have to.
So...for those that are interested in this little tale,I have swung the boat round and decided to try and intercept shipping in AL99,where there is a large convergance in that area.This was the nearest hotspot from my current position barely 100km SW of Lorient.Due to the terrible engine performance I cannot afford under ANY condition to engage warships,and to not even be detected by them,as I wont be able to outrun the DC runs :o .I will probably also order silent every time I dive too during the day,even if no warships are in the area,I just cant afford to take the risk due to a large lack of speed.
I could have opted for a raid on Liverpool too,but with the shallower waters and cramped maneuvering,this would have been suicide with these faulty engines.Deep water is imperative for this patrol!.

Sorry about the rambling,its just plain old enthusiasm :smug:

[baggygreen]

Thats ok...

I just got an IXC/40 in a new career from lorient, and where do they want me to go??

Straight up the st georges canal in late '43!

i'll pass, thanks!

[Cezbor]

As for me, I really liked those grid patrols. Sometimes it was scary, sometimes funy but before GWX 2.1 I've never received so stupid map grid like "0" to patrol.:rotfl: ......:rotfl: And I miss that extra renown too:lol:
Speaking of renown ..... it's funy that you receive only 100 renown for reaching your home base especially when you sail through all the Atlantic f.e. from AK or ET grids. Ones I've sailed from Lorient (France), to Capetown, through Good Hope, than near Madagaskar, Sues Channel, all Med., than straight to Gibraltar and finally I docked in home base at Lorient. All that trip (over 60 days of gametime) just for 100 renown:nope: :damn: . Thank's to good Lord Neptun I caught some fishes on my way.:arrgh!:

[Paul Riley]

As for me, I really liked those grid patrols. Sometimes it was scary, sometimes funy but before GWX 2.1 I've never received so stupid map grid like "0" to patrol.:rotfl: ......:rotfl: And I miss that extra renown too:lol:
Speaking of renown ..... it's funy that you receive only 100 renown for reaching your home base especially when you sail through all the Atlantic f.e. from AK or ET grids. Ones I've sailed from Lorient (France), to Capetown, through Good Hope, than near Madagaskar, Sues Channel, all Med., than straight to Gibraltar and finally I docked in home base at Lorient. All that trip (over 60 days of gametime) just for 100 renown:nope: :damn: . Thank's to good Lord Neptun I caught some fishes on my way.:arrgh!:

I agree totally,100 renown for trekking half way across the world and back again seems extremely unrealistic,even more so if you get caught in fierce storms across going across the Atlantic!.
You would have caught more than fishes I think,what about some serious sun stroke?,not to mention cabin fever :o
I would have really liked to have seen renown also based on the size of the journey,say 500 for getting there and 500 back,that would have made making those patrols at least seem feasible and worthy.
Oh well,no point moaning,orders are orders :damn:

[Von Manteuffel]

I put the renown back, I thought it was better to have it there, however I halved the values, one thing I find in SH3 is that you get promoted too quickly, after a few patrols you have every medal there is, I don't know if this can be adjusted, probably!
It's fairly straightforward to adjust the renown and medals values.

Go into C:\Program Files\Ubisoft\SilentHunterIII\data\Cfg folder and open the basic.cfg file there in Notepad, or a text program.

Then just type in the values you want:


[RENOWN]
RenownReachGridObjCompleted= You can set to whatever (GWX sets to 0)

RenownPatrolGridObjCompleted= You can set to whatever (GWX sets to 0)

CompletedPatrol= You can set to whatever (GWX sets to 0)

NEUTRAL=-N.B. This is a MINUS MULTIPLYER, applied to the Renown value of the
neutral ship sunk as given in it's individual .cfg file. Sinking neutrals can
be very expensive! Change as required.

ALLIED=1 This is the renown value gained for sinking an enemy vessel. It's not 1
renown point per gross ton. I think it's a multiplyer applied to the
"Renown awarded =" line in each ship's individual .cfg file

AXIS=-10 This acts the same, but is a minus multiplyer - Beware sinking your
own! Sinking the Gneisenau will cost you 17,000 Renown points !!!!

WrongShipSunk=-5000 This is the penalty deducted from Renown for sinking
"taboo" targets - e.g. Hospital ships.

FirstRankRenown=100 This is a bonus amount of Renown you get when you are
promoted for the first time. Can be changed as required

SecondRankRenown=350 This is a bonus for being promoted for a second time
Can be changed as required

EndCampaign=-5000 This is what you get if you survive the War! Can be changed
as required


The following values can be changed to hasten, or slow the rate of promotion / awards.

[PLAYER_RENOWN]
AcademyBonus=1000
RankLevel0=0; SCORE
RankLevel1=1499; SCORE
RankLevel2=7999; SCORE
RankLevel3=14999; SCORE
MedalSettings0=0.25 (I'm not sure how these work)
MedalSettings1=0.5
MedalSettings2=1
MedalScore0=3000;2 class, SCORE
MedalScore1=7000;1 class, SCORE
MedalScore2=15000; knight, SCORE
MedalScore3=25000; oak leaves, SCORE
MedalScore4=37000;swords, SCORE
MedalScore5=50000;diamonds, SCORE
MedalScore6=80000;all, SCORE

N.B. you only need 1499 Renown points to get promoted for the first time. If you've done well in the Academy and have changed the values above to give yourself a lot of renown per sinking, or per completed patrol, you'll make it after your first outing. It's all a question of balancing the things for which you get Renown with the things which reduce Renown and the things Renown brings as it accumulates.

Here are a couple of completed examples:

1. Superkaleun:

[RENOWN]
RenownReachGridObjCompleted=750
RenownPatrolGridObjCompleted=750
CompletedPatrol=500
NEUTRAL=-1
ALLIED=2
AXIS=-1
WrongShipSunk=-50
FirstRankRenown=2000
SecondRankRenown=4000
EndCampaign=-5000

[PLAYER_RENOWN]
AcademyBonus=1000
RankLevel0=0; SCORE
RankLevel1=999; SCORE
RankLevel2=3999; SCORE
RankLevel3=5999; SCORE
MedalSettings0=0.25
MedalSettings1=0.5
MedalSettings2=1
MedalScore0=1000;2 class, SCORE
MedalScore1=3000;1 class, SCORE
MedalScore2=7500; knight, SCORE
MedalScore3=12500; oak leaves, SCORE
MedalScore4=17500;swords, SCORE
MedalScore5=25000;diamonds, SCORE
MedalScore6=40000;all, SCORE

It's ridiculous. It removes penalties for sinking neutrals / wrong ships and, with the values for completing patrols increased to such a level, plus the reduction in Renown required to advance, or gain awards, you'd get promoted after every patrol - sometimes twice. The medals would also rack up in a very quick time. After 4, or 5 successful patrols you'd have reached the top rank and won every medal going - plus all the twinkly, shiny bits.

2. Am I Getting Anywhere?


[RENOWN]
RenownReachGridObjCompleted=0
RenownPatrolGridObjCompleted=0
CompletedPatrol=0
NEUTRAL=-10
ALLIED=1
AXIS=-20
WrongShipSunk=-10,000
FirstRankRenown=100
SecondRankRenown=250
EndCampaign=-500

[PLAYER_RENOWN]
AcademyBonus=100
RankLevel0=0; SCORE
RankLevel1=5999; SCORE
RankLevel2=11999; SCORE
RankLevel3=17999; SCORE
MedalSettings0=0.25
MedalSettings1=0.5
MedalSettings2=1
MedalScore0=5000;2 class, SCORE
MedalScore1=10000;1 class, SCORE
MedalScore2=1500; knight, SCORE
MedalScore3=20000; oak leaves, SCORE
MedalScore4=40000;swords, SCORE
MedalScore5=75000;diamonds, SCORE
MedalScore6=99000;all, SCORE

Like GWX, this model removes the awarding of Renown for simply getting there, staying there for a while and getting back. It also increases the Renown you need to gain promotion, or win an award, plus it makes sinking neutrals, friendlies, or "wrong" ships definitely career-limiting!

Basically, you need to sink a shed-load of ships before getting a "gong" or taking the next step up the ladder - probably it will take between 10 and 20 patrols.

Both the above examples are, of course, totally unrealistc. If a commander sank the Rodney ( worth 1400 Renown points ) he'd surely get a promotion and a medal. GWX has got it about as right as it can be, making it harder to progress, but keeping promotions and awards attainable.

It's fun to play with these settings though - always remembering to back-up the originals first! I have a range of basic.cfg files which I enable through JSGME, depending on how I feel.

You could also randomise basic.cfg files using SH3Commander, which, by the way, I believe also changes these settings, so if you're going to experiment, don't forget to check there.

Have fun.

[Murr44]

Don't know if you're aware of this or not but you can change your orders (patrol grid) before the start of any patrol in a given career. I do it if I'm being sent to the same area as my previous patrol or if I get sent some place that I really don't want to go to because it has poor prospects.

[Paul Riley]

Thanks for that VM,some really useful tricks there.It definitely is something I may play around with.
Regarding Commander,and how it already randomizes tonnage scores,does it do the same with renown?.What I want,is to remove the penalty for not completing a patrol,due to various conditions like malfunctioning equipment etc,because I dont think a captain should be penalized for having to abort due to poor engines,or some other serious problem.After all,they should be the ones penalized for making bloody defective parts! :stare:
I actually feel sorry for Uboat captians the more I think about it.They had to endure almost impossible odds,and the apparent opinion that BDU had of them annoys me,almost like they were expendible :nope: *poor buggers* I'd like to see them stinking pencil pushers keep their nerves during a DC attack,at night,at about 150-200m.

Any way,cheers mate.

[Paul Riley]

Don't know if you're aware of this or not but you can change your orders (patrol grid) before the start of any patrol in a given career. I do it if I'm being sent to the same area as my previous patrol or if I get sent some place that I really don't want to go to because it has poor prospects.

You mean by way of entering your own grid?,I know mate,I might actually do that sometime.The only reason I let BDU do it is for realism sake,after all,would captians really have the choice to choose their grids?.Maybe it reflects a more 'headstrong' captain,willing to override BDU's strange choice of grid for something more lucrative :know:
Keeping with this subject,was it not uncommon to find a few captains actually decide to abort and choose their own grid mid patrol?,due to the above scenario.I mean,its all good no matter where they sink the ships,they all count.I'd like this flexibility :rock:

[sharkbit]

I play good little soldier-I go where I'm told to for the appropriate length of time and then go hunting at will from there. On the way to those distant grids, I have run across convoys or other target rich environments and got low on torpedoes and returned to base without ever reaching my assigned area which is fine with me. I figure Bdu ordered me into a patrol line and go from there.

March '41-
I got ordered to Freetown in my VIIB, figured I could refuel in the Canaries on the way home and wreak some more havoc on the way home. However, I had engine problems near the Canary islands(malfunctions enabled in SH3Commander) and realized I wouldn't even have enough fuel to make it to Freetown and return to the Canary Islands. I diverted there first, repaired and refueled and headed back towards Freetown to complete my original objective, even though my new patrol grid was "NULL" and I wanted to check the Freetown area out.

Looks like I still won't make it there though. I ran into a northbound convoy which I have made 2 attacks on and am working my way around for a third time to shoot my remaining 3 eels and bag a couple of more ships and then head back to Lorient. :)

I might have to adjust the renown files for completing your objective though. That was one of the little, teeny, minor issues I had with GWX. I might tweek the file like Von Mantueffel suggested and experiment a little-give at least a little renown for reaching and patroling the grid.
:)

[danlisa]

Play how you want.:yep:

But!

There were no medals/acknowledgment/reward given to any Kaleun of any boat for only patrolling his assigned grid. They were orders. RL Kaleuns did not waste fuel in the pursuit of tonnage either. If they found no targets in their assigned grids they moved the adjacent one and did not trapse 1000kms to tanker f'ing alley....

FYI about the renown given by the game. There is no (or ever was) reward given for returning to base. It was broken from day 1. Also, your awarded renown is directly proportionate to your difficulty percentage. This applies to tonnage sunk & grids reached/patrolled.

Happy renown gathering.:up:

[Sailor Steve]

..... it's funy that you receive only 100 renown for reaching your home base especially when you sail through all the Atlantic f.e. from AK or ET grids...All that trip (over 60 days of gametime) just for 100 renown:nope: :damn: .

I agree totally,100 renown for trekking half way across the world and back again seems extremely unrealistic,even more so if you get caught in fierce storms across going across the Atlantic!.
Whatever you do, don't play GWX! There, you get no renown for going to your assigned grid and none for going home again, their theory being that you don't get special rewards just for doing your assigned job. I kind of like it that way. Although I've edited mine so I don't get penalized for sinking neutrals, I like the idea that in the military you have to do something really spectaculare before they notice you. Just make sure it's not spectacularly bad - that kind of notice I don't need!

But then, I never buy upgrades and always take '0'-level crew, so I guess I don't need it, either.

[Paul Riley]

..... it's funy that you receive only 100 renown for reaching your home base especially when you sail through all the Atlantic f.e. from AK or ET grids...All that trip (over 60 days of gametime) just for 100 renown:nope: :damn: .

I agree totally,100 renown for trekking half way across the world and back again seems extremely unrealistic,even more so if you get caught in fierce storms across going across the Atlantic!.
Whatever you do, don't play GWX! There, you get no renown for going to your assigned grid and none for going home again, their theory being that you don't get special rewards just for doing your assigned job. I kind of like it that way. Although I've edited mine so I don't get penalized for sinking neutrals, I like the idea that in the military you have to do something really spectaculare before they notice you. Just make sure it's not spectacularly bad - that kind of notice I don't need!

But then, I never buy upgrades and always take '0'-level crew, so I guess I don't need it, either.

The more I think about it?,the GWX setting for patrol reached/completed does sound about right.An order being an order.
Well earned renown for me is how many ships you sunk on patrol,the size of them,and the cargo they carried (particularly with oil,as this is vital for any war),with extra renown for warships,esp.battleships,which would probably elevate you to 'national hero'.
I know uboats werent designed to engage in duels against warships,but,how about extra renown for fighting them with the DG?,to simulate an extremely brave captain,trying to save his torps for cargo.I think thats a decent idea.

[meduza]

In my opinion, the much more realistic approach would be if you lose some renown for not following your orders. But this would cause problems if you play in the areas without grids, like Black sea or Far east.

[Paul Riley]

In my opinion, the much more realistic approach would be if you lose some renown for not following your orders. But this would cause problems if you play in the areas without grids, like Black sea or Far east.

I agree.
Just to remind you of why I started this post,it all started with my current assignment in grid GR89.As you will discover this is right at the bottom,past Cape Town,and has no activity in that sector at all.And just as I was leaving French waters towards the Spanish coast I developed a serious engine problem reducing my speed to about 7kts.Thus,I have decided to take a risk and head for the lanes west of Britain instead.
This is the first time I have disobeyed an order,and hopefully it will be the last :oops:

[Sailor Steve]

Well, even if you only use renown as an indicator, the powers-that-be tend to be very forgiving if you sink a lot of tonnage. They seem to like that for some reason.

[Paul Riley]

Well, even if you only use renown as an indicator, the powers-that-be tend to be very forgiving if you sink a lot of tonnage. They seem to like that for some reason.

After all,its war Steve,and even the captains themselves may have known more than intelligence back at the bases :know:

[Jimbuna]

At times I thought the Kaleuns in the front lines had more intelligence (the personal kind) than those at Bdu asssigning the patrol areas.

[Paul Riley]

At times I thought the Kaleuns in the front lines had more intelligence (the personal kind) than those at Bdu asssigning the patrol areas.

No s**t mate.
Damn beaurocrats,they're all the bloody same. :damn: :stare:

[Randomizer]

I understand the rationale in game terms for removing the renown merely for reaching the ordered grid, particularly during the good-hunting years where there were tonnage rivalries between the successful commanders.

However for those boats ordered to weather reporting stations, minelaying or escorting blockade runners for example, there were little prospects of making kills even though solid and reliable performance would likely garner official notice over time. SH3 might not simulate any of these but I have always treated those 'stupid' patrol area orders as that sort of thing. It's a luxury to know the reasons why a particular order is given until after the mission is complete and there must have been a lot of commanders who shook their heads in wonder on reciept of instructions but still obeyed.

After May '43, just following orders and coming back alive was a major feat and even if BdU didn't notice, the troops and flotilla staff would think well of a captain who did so even without tonnage success.

Just $0.02

[STEED]

Screw the renown BS. :yep:

There you are sailing back in to port and they tot up your points! What is this? Come on down the price is right crap, this is a war not a flipping game show. :stare:

[Sailor Steve]

At times I thought the Kaleuns in the front lines had more intelligence (the personal kind) than those at Bdu asssigning the patrol areas.
That is always the case in the military. The funny part is that it's not usually the guys at the very top who are the problem; it's the middle-management who think they know everything.

A fine example of a commander who knew how to get it right:
http://www.afa.org/magazine/April2002/0402kenney.html

And a favorite part of the story:

There were even complaints from the field that requests for parts were turned down because of improperly filled out requisition forms. Kenney made clear that he was putting an end to this practice. "You don't win wars with file cabinets," he said.
There is a legend that when Kenney confronted the suppy officer who was causing the problem the guy got huffy and stuffy and insisted the forms be filled out correctly, at which point Kenney told his personal guards to take him outside and shoot him for obstructing the war effort! That got results! Don't know if it's true, but it's a great story.

[Reise]

Is a realistic grid in 42

Take look

http://uboat.net/ops/monsun1.htm

[Jimbuna]

At times I thought the Kaleuns in the front lines had more intelligence (the personal kind) than those at Bdu asssigning the patrol areas.
That is always the case in the military. The funny part is that it's not usually the guys at the very top who are the problem; it's the middle-management who think they know everything.

A fine example of a commander who knew how to get it right:
http://www.afa.org/magazine/April2002/0402kenney.html

And a favorite part of the story:

There were even complaints from the field that requests for parts were turned down because of improperly filled out requisition forms. Kenney made clear that he was putting an end to this practice. "You don't win wars with file cabinets," he said.
There is a legend that when Kenney confronted the suppy officer who was causing the problem the guy got huffy and stuffy and insisted the forms be filled out correctly, at which point Kenney told his personal guards to take him outside and shoot him for obstructing the war effort! That got results! Don't know if it's true, but it's a great story.

A pragmatic guy who got the end result that was necessary :up:

[1480]

@jb amen.

@SS, that man had a pair. Not many of those left.


As a fan of both sh3 (gwx of course) and sh4, I really like what they did with rsrd in that your op orders changed once you completed a task, which is more realistic then just "head over there for 24hrs and rtb." That is my only beef with sh3. I wish there was a way to do this. And yes I have WB's immersion messages mod, it helps a bit but freewheeling after you complete your grid just seems a bit of reach.

That is not meant as a jab, since that is the only thing I would change in the game.

[Von Manteuffel]

I think we’re in danger of confusing a computer game with RL.

Steed has it almost right, but, unfortunately, the wrong way round – this is a game-show, not a war.

The role of the U Boat was very straightforward:

To interdict commercial shipping to and from the UK, thereby depriving Britain of essential materiel and, as a consequence, forcing them to sue for terms.

As Jimbuna says, in reality U Boat commanders didn’t go a-roving for tonnage, or raid harbours. They patrolled their assigned sectors and did such damage as they could before a shortage of fuel / supplies forced their return to base.

U Boat commanders were hugely reliant upon Intel supplied to them by BDU. At best this was patchy and unreliable. M.I.5 rolled up every German spy network in the UK in 1939. Even before America entered the war the FBI was active in suppressing German agents. The Canadian Security Service liaised closely with M.I.5 to restrict intelligence on East-bound shipping and convoys reaching Germany.

At sea a U Boat commander was essentially isolated. He knew only what he was told by his crew, his equipment and his radio.

Many of the patrol orders were based on the old pre-war shipping routes – e.g. the Great Circle route from America to Europe. We need to remember that shipping had limited fuel and the supplies they carried were of great urgency. They couldn’t take a long, meandering route to their destinations, so tended to follow established, pre-war routes.

Essentially, shipping routes were very predictable – given restrictions on fuel and the need to get to where you’re going a.s.a.p. There is, for example, only one route from the UK to Archangel. OK, you can go North-West towards Iceland, but, eventually, you have to head for North Cape.

BDU and the Luftwaffe used this knowledge to concentrate their forces on “choke-points” – places on the map through which shipping bound from A to B had to pass. The allies also used this knowledge. Hence, the basing of the Home Fleet at Scapa Flow is a given. From there, it can command the North Sea, the Denmark Strait and the North Atlantic.

Whoever decided to send the Tirpitz to Norway was a strategic genius. At a stroke, it tied the Home Fleet to Scapa and prevented its wider operations. I believe that the Bismark would have survived if a threat such as the Tirpitz had been present in Norway at the time.

I digress – In effect, for a U Boat commander the only alternative to following orders was to rely on pure luck. Let’s remember that, by following orders a commander had a “get out” for when things didn’t go quite so well, but mainly, modern warfare is based on Intel, not luck.

As far as why, in RL, U Boat commanders followed their orders, I think we’re in danger of investing the characters in SHIII with current morality, ethics and beliefs.

1.The majority of U Boat commanders came from a militaristic and militarised society. Anyone who’s been through Basic Training – in any arm of the military – will understand that its purpose is to supply you with basic skills, but primarily, to teach you to obey orders. You might go in an individual, but the system guarantees you come out as a well-machined cog in the “lean, mean fighting machine.”

2.As young men, the majority of U Boat commanders grew up during the Weimar Republic, when Germany went through a massive politico-economic crisis. Apart from a sense of “Duty” they actually believed in the causes which eventually led to war. In their eyes, their nation had been humiliated and territorially diminished by the Treaty of Versailles. In their view, the Sudetenland was essentially German, as was Danzig. East Prussia had simply disappeared in 1918. Essentially, it was time to re-establish Germany.

God knows I am no apologist for Hitler and the Nazis. Civilisation must never be allowed to forget the utter obscenity that was the Nazi regime. However, the cleverness of the Nazis was in their ability to play on the frustrations, fears and sense of being wronged of the German people. The Nazis would not have been able to carry an entire nation with them without this. They came to power not on a platform of genocide, but on the promise of a “nation reborn.” Essentially, they offered what FDR offered – a “New Deal” - for a country in the depths of economic despair and possessing a sense of being persecuted by the rest of Europe.

None of the above can be modelled into a computer game. Let’s just enjoy SHIII for what it is – a brilliant game, made even better by the efforts of the modders, especially the GWX Team. In many ways, SHIII and certainly GWX are very realistic. In others it’s a very long way from fact.

I think it’s a tribute to the game that people become so immersed and involved that they forget it is a game. However, as a game, it has severe historical limitations which not even the best modders in the world can overcome.

[Task Force]

Myself I just patroal the coasts of Britian. They tell me to go out into the atlanic and I dont (not any easy tonage out there), Ive had some patroals ive gon over to the Belchen (I think thats hou you spell it) Supply ship and I have harrased canada from the 2 floatilla. They have alot of easy tonage there. I once stoped by eastern Iceland and found a convoy with a 44,000 ton liner in it.:D

[Sailor Steve]

As a fan of both sh3 (gwx of course) and sh4, I really like what they did with rsrd in that your op orders changed once you completed a task, which is more realistic then just "head over there for 24hrs and rtb." That is my only beef with sh3. I wish there was a way to do this. And yes I have WB's immersion messages mod, it helps a bit but freewheeling after you complete your grid just seems a bit of reach.

That is not meant as a jab, since that is the only thing I would change in the game.

Part of the problem with the "Patrol for 24 hours" function is that that's not what it really is. SHII's biggest failing was that it had no career at all - just a series of scripted missions. Die and you repeated the mission. Fail to meet the parameters and you repeated the mission. There was no way to start a career in the middle of the war, and once you had played the entire war there was no repeatability at all.

When SH3 was under development they let it slip out that the new sim was going to have an advanced version of the SH2 'campaign', and the community had a fit. So many people said they wouldn't buy it without a dynamic career like the one in AOD that the devs took some polls and then announced that the game would be delayed six months while they rewrote the whole thing.

'Patrol Grid XX for 24 hours' is what's left over from the original system, which had mission orders but no career. I'm glad SH4 has both.

As for myself, I keep my tonnage down to realistic levels by the simple act of staying in my assigned patrol grid, period. If my fuel gets down to 50% and I haven't seen much of anything, then I'll move on and pretend I got orders to do just that. After reading Von Manteuffel's summary of the situation I see why I do it that way. I just needed someone to explain it to me.

[Ariodant]

There was no GPS, so if a skipper dared to, he could report fake positions to BdU:rock: But once he sunk ships, his real whereabouts would eventually get discovered. So yeah, I guess better obey thy orders:)

[Cezbor]

Point well taken Von Manteuffel:up:

[Jimbuna]

Good post VM http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/9708/piratebf4.gif (http://imageshack.us)

[Murr44]

Excellent points VM...

[Drakken]

I stricly respect BdU's orders. I feel like cheating if I go hunt anywhere I want.

I reach the patrol grid and patrol inside it for 24 hours, Then I extend the search to the patrol grids immediately surrounding the one assigned to me. I maintain my search pattern until torpedoes are exhausted or I have only enough fuel to return home.

The only exception is if a convoy is reported nearby. There I take that BdU would order me to attack the convoy. However, when I am done I return to my patrol grid.