Electric Torpedos and convoys in June 1944...

[Systemlord]

I now have the option to use the electric torpedos and after having used them they still leave a visible trail of bubbles, I thought the whole purpose was to hide the visible trail of bubbles?:hmm: Also getting close enough to a convoy in June 1944 to let loose some torpedos is near impossible now that the destroyers perfectly overlap one another, any tips? I just don't see a way to get close anymore, even using 1 knot with silent running mode doesn't work anymore. I was able to sink a Kongo Battleship lastnight, 6 torps at 27ft running depth. Thank you for any help! :up:

[Peto]

Are you using any mods? That might clear up your stealth question.

I don't think the escorts can see the electric torpedos regardless if you can or not... Personally, I use electrics in the after room and steam up front and am always looking for a nice destroyer to meet the Mk18's. That way, if I miss or get a dud and he starts looking for me at least I'm pointed in the right direction :yep:.

[Frederf]

The destroyers cheat and will automatically turn on their active sonar if you are inside the contact parameters. It's an old coding flaw that won't be fixed. Use narrow aspect to minimize your active sonar potential and you'll get detected a whole lot less.

Do AI ships pick up on the sound of torpedo screws in the water? Do they visibly see shallow running torps even if they are electric?

[SteamWake]

That way, if I miss or get a dud and he starts looking for me at least I'm pointed in the right direction :yep:.

I approve of this message :rock: :rotfl:

[Peto]

The destroyers cheat and will automatically turn on their active sonar if you are inside the contact parameters. It's an old coding flaw that won't be fixed. Use narrow aspect to minimize your active sonar potential and you'll get detected a whole lot less.

Yes. But you have some control of those parameters. Enemy sonar contact parameters are frequently based on your RPM's... I've had unalerted escorts go by me at a thousand yards or less without picking me up many times. Weather is a huge factor.

Do AI ships pick up on the sound of torpedo screws in the water? Do they visibly see shallow running torps even if they are electric?

Maybe and I don't think so. I'm not confident enough to bet the farm on either answer though.

[Peto]

That way, if I miss or get a dud and he starts looking for me at least I'm pointed in the right direction :yep:.

I approve of this message :rock: :rotfl:

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

[Systemlord]

The destroyers cheat and will automatically turn on their active sonar if you are inside the contact parameters. It's an old coding flaw that won't be fixed. Use narrow aspect to minimize your active sonar potential and you'll get detected a whole lot less.

I think that half circle shaped net is inside the contact parameters, What do you mean by, use narrow aspect to minimize my active sonar? I'll try loading the electric torps in AFT section only, with steam torps up front.

[Orion2012]

The destroyers cheat and will automatically turn on their active sonar if you are inside the contact parameters. It's an old coding flaw that won't be fixed. Use narrow aspect to minimize your active sonar potential and you'll get detected a whole lot less.
I think that half circle shaped net is inside the contact parameters, What do you mean by, use narrow aspect to minimize my active sonar? I'll try loading the electric torps in AFT section only, with steam torps up front.
Turn the boat so your bow or stern is facing towards the DD's bow or stern.
The narrower you make the submarine the harder it is for him to detect the return from his sonar.

If you look in this thread, the third diagram, it perfectly demonstartes the whole "aspect" thing.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=104377

As one of the others posted, I too have been well within the contact parameters of the DD's. It seems to be determined on how stealth you were getting into that area, and how quiet you can remain, at least IMO, although I have heard them turn that active sonar on when I'm well below 75 RPM's

[Mush Martin]

Do what I do :arrgh!: either sink em all from outside five thousand yds,
or show your tower above surface to draw the destroyers
onto steady CBDR track and albeit converging on you its steady
and stable situation for long enough so Sink em all, dine on the
convoy at leisure.


more realistically try this,

send off one long range shot into the whole overlapping formation
set it shallow enough to hit anything and launch at extreme long
range fire on the formation at a point about twenty five percent
of its length back from the nose.
as its closing the formation on slow speed move further down
along the the targets track away from the convoy in the same
direction they are close the track if necessary as the torp starts
to close the formation turn your sub into final firing orientation
and hit all stop dont hit silent running your still loading just all stop

in all likely hood your still seven thousand or six thousand yards
out the convoy will gather but the destroyers will break up a
bit and stay fixated for a bit and regathering will have the
convoy on you before they are re screened most versions
the destroyers wont search outside a four thousand yard
circle unless theyve seen you torpedo trails or not, seriously.

M

[Ariodant]

Many times DDs ping me but eventually lose me. At first I was playing the quiet and waiting game, not at all. I simply froze. "OMG, he's pinging me, I'll get DCed, What to do? What to do?" (Ended up doing nothing)

And the DDs sailed away to catch up with the convoy.

My friends were all more seasoned and proactive. "You can't just wait for death, let me show you what you should do. Dive! Turn hard! Ahead flank!"

And he got sunken...

[Peto]

Many times DDs ping me but eventually lose me. At first I was playing the quiet and waiting game, not at all. I simply froze. "OMG, he's pinging me, I'll get DCed, What to do? What to do?" (Ended up doing nothing)

And the DDs sailed away to catch up with the convoy.

My friends were all more seasoned and proactive. "You can't just wait for death, let me show you what you should do. Dive! Turn hard! Ahead flank!"

And he got sunken...

:rotfl:

You did the right thing. Sometimes the best thing to do is nothing. I've had situations where I know an escort has me on active but I remain at silent running and wait for his move. Then he creeps in instead of making a run--seems like he's trying to locate me passively. When (if) he drops dc's they can be well off the mark because he was poking around so slow. And then he goes back to the convoy or loses me. Key word in this paragraph? Sometimes :yep:!

Patience is your friend Ariodant. Learn how to wait and you'll take more boats through to the end of the war.

:up:

EDIT: But I would have gone deep LOL.

[Systemlord]

The destroyers cheat and will automatically turn on their active sonar if you are inside the contact parameters. It's an old coding flaw that won't be fixed. Use narrow aspect to minimize your active sonar potential and you'll get detected a whole lot less.
I think that half circle shaped net is inside the contact parameters, What do you mean by, use narrow aspect to minimize my active sonar? I'll try loading the electric torps in AFT section only, with steam torps up front.
Turn the boat so your bow or stern is facing towards the DD's bow or stern.
The narrower you make the submarine the harder it is for him to detect the return from his sonar.

If you look in this thread, the third diagram, it perfectly demonstartes the whole "aspect" thing.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=104377

As one of the others posted, I too have been well within the contact parameters of the DD's. It seems to be determined on how stealth you were getting into that area, and how quiet you can remain, at least IMO, although I have heard them turn that active sonar on when I'm well below 75 RPM's

I get it, less surface area facing the DD gives them less return.

[Peto]

Yes! You got it Systemlord. It's a very important part of remaining undetected or getting away.

[Systemlord]

Yes! You got it Systemlord. It's a very important part of remaining undetected or getting away.

Wow! I must have played SH3 for 8 solid months and never knew anything about detection methods, no wonder why it seem so random that I would escape. Sometimes changing directions would either kill me or not. I do have another question though, I noticed that my new 5" deck gun only loads anti-aircraft and HE shells, but no AP shells. My two 40mm flak guns can load HE along with AP shells, is there something funny going on here? I do have that bug where I moved my deck gun (from BOW to AFT) and lost my aft and bow deck gun crewman slots, now my gun reload slowly. I could NOT load the game before the bug cause I deleted my old saves.

[Zero Niner]

Yes! You got it Systemlord. It's a very important part of remaining undetected or getting away.
Kind of screwed if there're 2 or 3 escorts actively pinging away. It's not possible to avoid presenting the side of the sub to at least one of them.

How do you escape, apart from going as deep and as slow and silent as possible?

[Systemlord]

Yes! You got it Systemlord. It's a very important part of remaining undetected or getting away.
Kind of screwed if there're 2 or 3 escorts actively pinging away. It's not possible to avoid presenting the side of the sub to at least one of them.

How do you escape, apart from going as deep and as slow and silent as possible?

I go under 310 feet at 1 knot in silent running with a few decoys, this only happens if I am never detected in the first place. You know where there going to look for you, from a 90 degree from where the ship was hit. Don't be there when they come looking for you, slip under the convoy. Its hard to ping a sub with all the ships around. The DD almost all the time go for them and depth charge the heck out of where I left a few decoys. Speaking of decoys, how do they really work? What do they do, make noise?

[Peto]

Kind of screwed if there're 2 or 3 escorts actively pinging away. It's not possible to avoid presenting the side of the sub to at least one of them.

How do you escape, apart from going as deep and as slow and silent as possible?

You're right. When pursued by 3 escorts I don't think much about getting away but focus on surviving until one of them leave. And "typically" at least one will eventually go away.

With 2 escorts it's still difficult but much more possible. I wait for a time when escort A has passed over me and is in the same general bearing as escort B (say they're both within 30-60 degree's relative to me). I'll crank it up and head directly for them in the hope that I can get beneath their active detection zone. I also Hope that I can pull this off when they have their backs turned--ie they don'y hear me doing the sprint with passive sonar. I push it for as long as I dare--seldom over 2 minutes high speed run.

Then when I believe I'm in a good spot--I drift. All Stop and allow my speed to drop to about 1 knot. Hopefully, they will go back in the direction where I was--both searching behind me. That's when I go 20 degrees rudder and set my speed for 1 knot--try to get them both in my baffles and hope it works. Eventually, it does. But it can take many tries before I pull it off.

Notes:
1. Setting speed manually to one knot is quieter than simply hitting Z and using default speed for SR.

2. Unless I'm testing something where I Need external view, I play with it off. Having external View OFF makes the experience of evasion much more intense and feels much more rewarding when you do get away. It can also lead to longer evasion times :hmm: .

[Peto]

Speaking of decoys, how do they really work? What do they do, make noise?

Consider it to be a big Alka Seltzer. It creates a mass of small bubbles which reflects active sonar and moves with the current. Active Sonar was what sub-hunters relied on in WWII much more than Passive. Using Passive Sonar to detect a silent running submarine was extremely difficult under the best of conditions. Active was the norm.

[Peto]

[quote=Peto]I do have another question though, I noticed that my new 5" deck gun only loads anti-aircraft and HE shells, but no AP shells. My two 40mm flak guns can load HE along with AP shells, is there something funny going on here?

I "think" that HE for the 5" is normal. It has enough force behind it to penetrate standard hulls anyway...

[Rockin Robbins]

When pursued by more than two escorts, I'm looking to tag one of them to cause havoc and then creep away in the resulting chaos. In order to do that I'm always looking for the opportunity to come back up from my deep running position to periscope depth to regain the initiative.

My ultimate goal is to find a sneaky escort shut down and listening. I'll give him a newrly 100% probability shot to kill him. An electric torpedo is OK with that but you'll have equal or better success with a Mark 14.

If I have to I'll try a down the throat shot. My experience with Trigger Maru is that a spread of three is no more likely to hit than a single torpedo and three is too high a price for a couple of hundred ton subchaser. I also always shoot Mark 14s on high speed shallowest possible setting on bearing 0º or 180º only. The Mark 18s are so slow that they miss over twice as much. With scope up and moving away from the charging escort, shoot at 400 yards. Down scope, dive and hard left or right immediately. Don't lollygag at the eyepiece looking to see if you have a hit. You'll hear the boom if you hit and you'll need the time if you miss.

Generally I'll turn away from the escort's track 45 to 90º, power down to the thermal at ahead emergency, hit silent running and make a final 90º turn below the layer.

On a down the throat shot I'm perfectly willing to abort the shot if everything isn't perfect and just go deep to try again later. It's hard enough to hit those guys when the shot looks perfect.

[Kloef]

Apart from the Mark 14/18 thing my tactics are the same..

I try to get into the convoy and keep a bearing on one or more destroyers,with the bow of the boat facing the destroyers,keeping a 45 degree angle on the convoy in the path of their zig-zag pattern,so when i see a chance i can attack at least one of the destoyers or try for a convoy ship,if there is no chance,or the risk is too big i dive to the thermal layer,ignoring any safety precautions like silent running or 1/3 ahead,by the time i made my move and the destoryers are making their way to my position i go to silent running and dive as deep as 300 feet,ignoring the thermal layer which doesnt allways seem a safe haven..

Also i have the habit of following any crippled ships that i damaged,so when after a period of time he is left behind by either the convoy or the destroyers i can finish him off..also the situation can occur that one of the dd's stays behind to cover the crippled ships,an excellent time to finish off the dd and the merchant,as it seems the dd stays in a stationary position,easy to sneak away,turn around and surprise him at 1500 feet..

[Urge]

Originally posted by Mush Martin
Do what I do :arrgh!: either sink em all from outside five thousand yds, or show your tower above surface to draw the destroyers onto steady CBDR track and albeit converging on you its steady and stable situation for long enough so Sink em all, dine on the convoy at leisure. M


Do you find that you get a lot less response from the destroyers when shooting at long range? Is it easier to slip away with several thousand yards between you and the destroyers? Urge