Russia is taking the mick now big time!

[Konovalov]

Russia seizes US vehicles while holding Georgian serviceman at gunpoint blindfolded: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-seizes-us-vehicles-902432.html


Several hours later, an Associated Press photographer saw Russian trucks and armored personnel carriers leaving the port with about 20 blindfolded and handcuffed men riding on them. Port spokesman Eduard Mashevoriani said the men were Georgian soldiers.

The Russians also took with them four Humvees that were at the port awaiting shipment back to the United States after taking part in earlier US-Georgian military exercises.


I had a tiny bit of understanding for the initial actions of Russia. However their continued dodgy hijinks such as these really crosses the line. :down:

[Dowly]

I'm really starting to think that some of the decision makers at Russia's end have gone nuts. :hmm: Especially after yesterday's speech from Medjedev, who said pretty much "Russia/Soviet Union has never attacked anyone first". Oh yeh, sry, Winter War was still started by Finnish mortars attacking the Soviet side, nevermind the fact that the Finns had no mortars/artillery in the area at that time. :lol:

[Bruno Lotse]

Are these really US Humvees
or Humvees delivered by US to Georgian army like these ones
http://www.ljplus.ru/img4/p/e/peniol/gryzuny3.jpg

If these are really US Humvees, I suggest Russians are taking them in custody to protect US property from pillaging by locals.
And they do help themselves whenever they can.

Should US ask return them, will see how Russians would react.

[Happy Times]

I'm really starting to think that some of the decision makers at Russia's end have gone nuts. :hmm: Especially after yesterday's speech from Medjedev, who said pretty much "Russia/Soviet Union has never attacked anyone first". Oh yeh, sry, Winter War was still started by Finnish mortars attacking the Soviet side, nevermind the fact that the Finns had no mortars/artillery in the area at that time. :lol:

The national bolsevist silovikis are choosing a path for their country and people into suicide.:rotfl:

[Digital_Trucker]

Are these really US Humvees
or Humvees delivered by US to Georgian army like these ones

<picture snipped for irrelevance>

If these are really US Humvees, I suggest Russians are taking them in custody to protect US property from pillaging by locals.
And they do help themselves whenever they can.

Should US ask return them, will see how Russians would react.

See the second sentence of the quote in the original post. They were US and were awaiting shipment back from US-Georgian military excercises.

And I'm really sure they're "protecting them from harm":rotfl:.

[Bruno Lotse]

I'm really starting to think that some of the decision makers at Russia's end have gone nuts. :hmm: Especially after yesterday's speech from Medjedev, who said pretty much "Russia/Soviet Union has never attacked anyone first". Oh yeh, sry, Winter War was still started by Finnish mortars attacking the Soviet side, nevermind the fact that the Finns had no mortars/artillery in the area at that time. :lol:
So Finns say.
Your words against Their words:rock:

[Happy Times]

I'm really starting to think that some of the decision makers at Russia's end have gone nuts. :hmm: Especially after yesterday's speech from Medjedev, who said pretty much "Russia/Soviet Union has never attacked anyone first". Oh yeh, sry, Winter War was still started by Finnish mortars attacking the Soviet side, nevermind the fact that the Finns had no mortars/artillery in the area at that time. :lol:
So Finns say.
Your words against Their words:rock:

Well remember that, what comes around goes around.:up:

[Bruno Lotse]

Are these really US Humvees
or Humvees delivered by US to Georgian army like these ones

<picture snipped for irrelevance>

If these are really US Humvees, I suggest Russians are taking them in custody to protect US property from pillaging by locals.
And they do help themselves whenever they can.

Should US ask return them, will see how Russians would react.

See the second sentence of the quote in the original post. They were US and were awaiting shipment back from US-Georgian military excercises.

And I'm really sure they're "protecting them from harm":rotfl:.
Read me post.
Should US ask Russians to return US property, we'll see.
I have a hunch there would not be a problem
if there's still no war between them.:stare:
(The US Navy is asking Turkey to enter the Black Sea)

[Bruno Lotse]

I'm really starting to think that some of the decision makers at Russia's end have gone nuts. :hmm: Especially after yesterday's speech from Medjedev, who said pretty much "Russia/Soviet Union has never attacked anyone first". Oh yeh, sry, Winter War was still started by Finnish mortars attacking the Soviet side, nevermind the fact that the Finns had no mortars/artillery in the area at that time. :lol: So Finns say.
Your words against Their words:rock:
Well remember that, what comes around goes around.:up:
Do you have another Petsamo?

What, only bogs and trees?
Heck, Russians have the whole Siberia to play with the trees.

[Sea Demon]

Putin is truly leading his country into isolation. Both militarily and economically. It may be good for temporary "pride" in Russia. :roll: But in the long term, this is suicide for them. It's going in the opposite direction. Putin is stupidly taking Russia into strategic isolation and irrelevance. You'd have

So now they have US (paid for by the taxpayers) Hummers? ope they enjoy them? For what they've given us in terms of more NATO partners and missile defense....they can have them. Not exactly going to make many friends or save face using these stupid and useless tactics?

[Happy Times]

I'm really starting to think that some of the decision makers at Russia's end have gone nuts. :hmm: Especially after yesterday's speech from Medjedev, who said pretty much "Russia/Soviet Union has never attacked anyone first". Oh yeh, sry, Winter War was still started by Finnish mortars attacking the Soviet side, nevermind the fact that the Finns had no mortars/artillery in the area at that time. :lol: So Finns say.
Your words against Their words:rock:
Well remember that, what comes around goes around.:up:
Do you have another Petsamo?

What, only bogs and trees?
Heck, Russians have the whole Siberia to play with the trees.

Finland and China negotiating their new border, its going to be roughly in the Urals.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCet6LPDBA0

[Sea Demon]

Should US ask Russians to return US property, we'll see.


No.

[Konovalov]

Are these really US Humvees
or Humvees delivered by US to Georgian army
I think that the article indicates very clearly that they are US Humvees awaiting return shipment to the US having participated in joint US-Georgian exercises.

If these are really US Humvees, I suggest Russians are taking them in custody to protect US property from pillaging by locals.
And they do help themselves whenever they can.

Should US ask return them, will see how Russians would react.
There are Georgian police to enforce law and order in their own country but from what I have seen the Russian army have done everything possible to stop the Georgian police from doing their job.

[SUBMAN1]

For the Russian soldier, there is no greater souvenir from a war like this. That just ticks me off that it would seem Russian soldiers seem to be under their own command.

This just shows that Russia has no real control over its soldiers. They are disorganized. If America were to ever go to battle with them, this would be a quick defeat for Russia.

-S

[Bruno Lotse]

If something happens with those vehicles whos gonna be blamed for that?
Georgian police?
Pleeeese, give me a break.

Russians are doing the smart thing. Now nobody can exploit in their propaganda this
Humvees.
Should US asks them returned, I think, they'll get them.
But the US Navy in the Black Sea can bring about something
that could prevent this return happen:arrgh!:

[Happy Times]

This just shows that Russia has no real control over its soldiers. They are disorganized.



They are more like organized crime.:rotfl:

[SUBMAN1]

If something happens with those vehicles whos gonna be blamed for that?
Georgian police?
Pleeeese, give me a break.

Russians are doing the smart thing. Now nobody can exploit in their propaganda this
Humvees.
Should US asks them returned, I think, they'll get them.
But the US Navy in the Black Sea can bring about something
that could prevent this return happen:arrgh!:Let the conspiracy theorists live on!

[Bruno Lotse]

Putin is truly leading his country into isolation. Russians are learning the art of RealPolitik.

They are coming to realization that there ARE only two allies (friends) of the Russian people
They are:
the Russian Army
and the Russian Navy.

That's it.

Russian gas they could sell either westward (Europe), or eastward (China), or south (India).

[Digital_Trucker]

Read me post.
Should US ask Russians to return US property, we'll see.
I have a hunch there would not be a problem
if there's still no war between them.:stare:

I did read your post. I even quoted your post. You asked a question (see first part of your post), I answered it (see second sentence of quote in first post of thread which negates the need for the question and the needless picture to begin with).

I'll agree with you that there will probably be no problem regarding 4 lousy Humvees:D

The more important question, I believe, is, if they are pulling out (as they claim), why are they even there and dragging blindfolded soldiers around at gunponint and "protecting" the vehicles to begin with?

[Dowly]

I'm really starting to think that some of the decision makers at Russia's end have gone nuts. :hmm: Especially after yesterday's speech from Medjedev, who said pretty much "Russia/Soviet Union has never attacked anyone first". Oh yeh, sry, Winter War was still started by Finnish mortars attacking the Soviet side, nevermind the fact that the Finns had no mortars/artillery in the area at that time. :lol: So Finns say.
Your words against Their words:rock:

Nah, it's been stated by Soviets themselves some 20yrs ago that it was them. But that's enough of the OT. ;)

[Happy Times]

Putin is truly leading his country into isolation. Russians are learning the art of RealPolitik.

They are coming to realization that there ARE only two allies (friends) of the Russian people
They are:
the Russian Army
and the Russian Navy.

That's it.

Russian gas they could sell either westward (Europe), or eastward (China), or south (India).

What could be the reason that they dont have better friends..:hmm:
And they really are just learning they jumped the gun too early, maskirovka is off.

[Konovalov]

If something happens with those vehicles whos gonna be blamed for that?
Georgian police?
Pleeeese, give me a break.

Russians are doing the smart thing. Now nobody can exploit in their propaganda this
Humvees.
Should US asks them returned, I think, they'll get them.
But the US Navy in the Black Sea can bring about something
that could prevent this return happen:arrgh!:
You are starting to sound like محمد سعيد الصحاف‎. Some perspective and reality may help you. :down:

[Tchocky]

There Are No American Humvees In Georgia!

[Bruno Lotse]

Putin is truly leading his country into isolation. Russians are learning the art of RealPolitik.

They are coming to realization that there ARE only two allies (friends) of the Russian people
They are:
the Russian Army
and the Russian Navy.

That's it.

Russian gas they could sell either westward (Europe), or eastward (China), or south (India).
What could be the reason that they dont have better friends..:hmm:
And they really are just learning they jumped the gun too early, maskirovka is off. Sure,
the Russians are suspect of 'friends' like Finns.

Those Finns in 1941 were fighting allied with Germans
and then in 1944 (when Finns got in a pinch) started shooting Germans in the back
and called it the great lapland war!!!

Nice "friends", indeed:down:

[Happy Times]

Putin is truly leading his country into isolation. Russians are learning the art of RealPolitik.

They are coming to realization that there ARE only two allies (friends) of the Russian people
They are:
the Russian Army
and the Russian Navy.

That's it.

Russian gas they could sell either westward (Europe), or eastward (China), or south (India).
What could be the reason that they dont have better friends..:hmm:
And they really are just learning they jumped the gun too early, maskirovka is off. Sure,
the Russians are suspect of 'friends' like Finns.

Those Finns in 1941 were fighting allied with Germans
and then in 1944 (when Finns got in a pinch) started shooting Germans in the back
and called it the great lapland war!!!

Nice "friends", indeed:down:

We asked them to leave nicely, but they attacked and fired the first shot:p
Some countries are funny like that.

[SUBMAN1]

I bet some people here would say that the US did this, not Russia! This is the conspiracy stuff I am reading today!

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article4566892.ece

But it was in Poti - Georgia’s key oil port city - where Russia flexed its military muscle most visibly.


Russian forces blocked access to the city’s naval and commercial ports this morning and towed the missile boat Dioskuria, seen as the flagship of the Georgian navy, out of sight of observers. A loud explosion was heard minutes later.

Must have been a US sub that blew up that boat. Hahahahaha!

-S

PS. Knowing Russia, I bet some particular difficult Georgian men were part of that explosion.

[SUBMAN1]

Russia is on a rampage. Animals.

-S

...An AP television crew has seen Russian troops in and around Poti for days, with local port officials saying the Russians had destroyed radar, boats and other Coast Guard equipment there. Russian troops have also been busy at the nearby Georgian military base in Senaki.


Convoys of Russian trucks and armored vehicles moved in and out of the base all day yesterday. Late in the afternoon, three separate blasts appeared to destroy the base’s runway and shook the leaves off trees up to a mile away....

[Bruno Lotse]

The more important question, I believe, is, if they are pulling out (as they claim), why are they even there and dragging blindfolded soldiers around at gunponint and "protecting" the vehicles to begin with?

While politicians do their job - talking and promises
(talk is cheap, as you know)
military does its job called "psychological warfare".

They are showing to all Georgians to see who is the boss.
They are showing that their Saak government is impotent,
police is impotent, Georgian Army
Hm...
Where the heck is so called georgian army????

[SUBMAN1]

While politicians do their job - talking and promises
(talk is cheap, as you know)
military does its job called "psychological warfare".

They are showing to all Georgians to see who is the boss.
They are showing that their Saak government is impotent,
police is impotent, Georgian Army
Hm...
Where the heck is so called georgian army????Any power can do what these people are doing. Its not psych warefare in the slightest. If America went in there, the result is the same.

What is really going on is a warning about joining NATO.

Quit defending people who are nothing more than mere animals.

-S

[Skybird]

NATO meanwhile delivered a serious payback, saying that it will be no business as usual. Medwedew was said to have raised an eyebrow in - well, they are still undecided what it was, maybe it was concern. Different to him, Putin just looked like always. At the same time while NATO defended it's strong and tough role on the stage of world politics and landed its coup, Russian millionaires are said to have sacked four US Humvees for their private collection.

Sounds like a promising joint venture between the US and Russia. Send more, please.

[Sea Demon]

Any power can do what these people are doing. Its not psych warefare in the slightest. If America went in there, the result is the same.

What is really going on is a warning about joining NATO.

Quit defending people who are nothing more than mere animals.

-S

Right. It's about Russia believing that they can push and shove sovereign nations into being wholly subservient to Russia's interests. Putin didn't count on the fact that these nations consider themselves sovereign states that have the right to join any alliance they wish and serve their own security interests. I think Putin is surprised that some of these sovereign nations are choosing the opposite now as a matter of security for themselves. And in very strong terms. Russia will get theirs in the end. Their own actions have helped bring more people into NATO's sphere of influence and quicker action in regards to missile defenses and the big radars that go with it. Putin truly is not all that bright.

[Bruno Lotse]

While politicians do their job - talking and promises
(talk is cheap, as you know)
military does its job called "psychological warfare".

They are showing to all Georgians to see who is the boss.
They are showing that their Saak government is impotent,
police is impotent, Georgian Army
Hm...
Where the heck is so called georgian army????Any power can do what these people are doing. Its not psych warefare in the slightest. If America went in there, the result is the same.

What is really going on is a warning about joining NATO.

Quit defending people who are nothing more than mere animals.

-S
Nope, I am not defending Georgians in this conflict.
They started it, now VAE VICTIS.

However amongst Georgians always been and hopefully would be great people.
Have you heard of Operation Bagration?
Who was Bagration?
Knjaz Bagration is the great Russian war hero of Georgian descent.
Do you know who was Stalin ethnically speaking?
Do you know who was Beria - the chief of NKVD (ChK)?
Georgians!!! (Mengrel part of it)

[Sea Demon]

NATO meanwhile delivered a serious payback, saying that it will be no business as usual. Medwedew was said to have raised an eyebrow in - well, they are still undecided what it was, maybe it was concern. Different to him, Putin just looked like always. At the same time while NATO defended it's strong and tough role on the stage of world politics and landed its coup, Russian millionaires are said to have sacked four US Humvees for their private collection.

Sounds like a promising joint venture between the US and Russia. Send more, please.

4 Hummers vs. many more Eastern nations in your sphere of influence, candidates for equal partnership in NATO all, missile defense is a sure thing now, and the Iranian question has become alot easier. Russia is no winner here. Putin screwed himself and his nation big time.

[SUBMAN1]

Nope, I am not defending Georgians in this conflict.
They started it, now VAE VICTIS.

However amongst Georgians always been and hopefully would be great people.
Have you heard of Operation Bagration?
Who was Bagration?
Knjaz Bagration is the great Russian war hero of Georgian descent.
Do you know who was Stalin ethnically speaking?
Do you know who was Beria - the chief of NKVD (ChK)?
Georgians!!! (Mengrel part of it)Nice twist, but I'd be really surprised if anyone is dumb enough here to actually buy it.

You know i am calling Russia the animals. Referenced them more than once above.

-S

[Bruno Lotse]

You know i am calling Russia the animals. Referenced them more than once above.

-S
That's the point.
No matter what Russians do , no matter what Russians be
they won't be 'nice guys' for Americans - 'animals', 'mongol hordes', whatever.

So, they are coming to European envention called 'RealPolitik'.

Russians have only two friends and two protectors of the people of Russia
the Russian Army and the Russian Navy.

You don't like it - do something against friends of the Russian people.

[SUBMAN1]

...Russians have only two friends and two protectors of the people of Russia
the Russian Army and the Russian Navy....There is a reason for this. Georgia is a prime example.

-S

[Bruno Lotse]

Yeah, it's RealPolitik.

They are showing Georgians their place in the global balance of power.
Small nation = small place.

[Randomizer]

I wouldn't be too quick to attribute Russia's actions with stupidity or a penchant for national suicide.

http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/real_world_order

Good Hunting

[Bruno Lotse]

I wouldn't be too quick to attribute Russia's actions with stupidity or a penchant for national suicide.

http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/real_world_order

Good Hunting
Good Hunting , good dreaming.

[Sea Demon]

Yeah, it's RealPolitik.

They are showing Georgians their place in the global balance of power.
Small nation = small place.

Actually they are showing more about themselves than they are about Georgia. They are also demonstrating alot to their former client states that have responded strongly in NATO's favor recently. I think the USA is looking at Russia in a different light as well. This won't be good for Russia at all.

[SUBMAN1]

Yeah, it's RealPolitik.

They are showing Georgians their place in the global balance of power.
Small nation = small place.
Oh yeah? Well I think Russia falls into the 'small nation = small place' catagory too. Know why? Because they are feeling so small that they have to prove to another small nation that they can still beat them up, for no other reason. A truely powerful nation does not need to do this. People just know.

This shows that Russia has truely got an international identity crisis and no one really thinks they are all that strong anymore.

Open your eyes to the bigger picture.

-S

[Sea Demon]

This shows that Russia has truely got an international identity crisis and no one really thinks they are all that strong anymore.

Open your eyes to the bigger picture.

-S

Correct. Russia has delusions of itself as greater than what they truly are. Russia cannot hope to compete militarily, economically, or any other way with the many nations encompassing NATO including the ones he pushed closer to it. The picture in the long term is what I see, and Russia's options don't look too good if they continue down this path.

[Bruno Lotse]

Talk is cheap.

How about acting for a change?
What US could do? Keep talking?
Well, US Navy is trying enter the Black Sea. The world becomes an interesting place to watch from another planet.

[SUBMAN1]

Talk is cheap.

How about acting for a change?
What US could do? Keep talking?
Well, US Navy is trying enter the Black Sea. The world becomes an interesting place to watch from another planet.That sounds like a nuke threat. The US would lose some people taking on Russia, but it is clear who the victor would be. Nukes is the only thing left in Russia's deck of cards.

-S

[Bruno Lotse]

And this is the ace!

[Konovalov]

Ok Comical Ali. Stop it with the fantasy please.

[SUBMAN1]

And this is the ace!Big whoop. :roll: As said above, Russia is finished if this is all they have.

-S

[Bruno Lotse]

It was not really 'comical' in Cuba crisis.

Russia also has natural resources and happy buyers in the West, East, and South.:yep:

[Rockstar]

Back in the day of the Soviet Union what was Russia surrounded by? Maybe Russia percieves a threat (IMO rightfully so) down south like Iran or a future United Islamic nation. By controlling Georgia they have once again have a 'buffer state' and control who they can do business and be friends with. Historically it's the Russian way of doing things, isn't it?

Maybe the reason too why nobody in the west is doing too much about it.

[Jimbuna]

Have you ever considered the possibility that Russia becomes a pariah on the world stage with fewer and fewer allies.

Hence the increased need to appease the Chinese (who we all know are difficult to get on with long term).

What happens next is a weakening further of the Russian state who will spend increasing amounts of time, effort and energy in trying to maintain cordial relations with said Chinese.....lest the outcome be that Russia finds herself totally disenfranchised from the rest of the world.

Be in no doubt, China will sense and exploit any weaknesses they see in the Russian world stage position.

Russias ivasion of Georgia was always going to be a one horse race.

I had sympathy for them initially in the context that they never cast the first stone.

But now....enough is enough....they have achieved what they initially set out to do and should return back to their borders and give the politicians a chance to fix this awful mess.

[Rockstar]

Have you ever considered the possibility that Russia becomes a pariah on the world stage with fewer and fewer allies.

Not when they got control of your #2 home heatin' fuel they won't. They'll have all sorts of friends this winter.

I think they are looking closer to home, today Iran is the center of gravity

[Bruno Lotse]

Have you ever considered the possibility that Russia becomes a pariah on the world stage with fewer and fewer allies.

There's no allies for Russia.
There are buyers, sellers, patsies.

As long as Russians can satisfy demands of their buyers, then business as usual.

If anyone tres rob Russian people taking their resources
to make Russians 'some kinda pariah'
Russian people have their permanent friends - the Russian Army and the Russian Navy.

China occupied and is keeping Tibet.
So what?
Olympic games...

[Sea Demon]

Not when they got control of your #2 home heatin' fuel they won't.

I think they are looking closer to home, today Iran is the center of gravity
Energy is their last and only link of influence to the West. They ain't gonna screw that one up. Especially since without that money, they truly have nothing. Although Putin has shown an incredible lack of judgement recently and an inability to see obvious outcomes. :hmm:

[Digital_Trucker]

Although Putin has shown an incredible lack of judgement recently and an inability to see obvious outcomes. :hmm:

Unfortunately, for politicians obvious outcomes aren't very obvious.

[Happy Times]

Where is Putin? Anyone seen him?

[Sea Demon]

Where is Putin? Anyone seen him?

Nope. Not lately. The only thing I can think is that he's somewhere trying to figure out how to undo his idiotic and unnecessary damage that he's brought to himself and his nation. Or he's in some bunker in a fit of rage planning further attacks against Georgian cities as a means to show "Russian relevance".....even if he further buries himself and alienates his country even more. I'm not sure we're dealing with a mentally fit fellow here.

[Happy Times]

Where is Putin? Anyone seen him?

Nope. Not lately. The only thing I can think is that he's somewhere trying to figure out how to undo his idiotic and unnecessary damage that he's brought to himself and his nation. Or he's in some bunker in a fit of rage planning further attacks against Georgian cities as a means to show "Russian relevance".....even if he further buries himself and alienates his country even more. I'm not sure we're dealing with a mentally fit fellow here.

Or another power struggle, hence the anarchy in Georgia, they have had one earlier.

This allready sounds like cold war, this is fun.:rotfl:

[Sea Demon]

this is fun.:rotfl:
Well all joking aside, I don't find any of this fun. I was real hopeful when NATO offered Russia a seat at the NATO table as an observer. Too bad Putin is an idiot and screwed that up.

[Konovalov]

this is fun.:rotfl:
Well all joking aside, I don't find any of this fun. I was real hopeful when NATO offered Russia a seat at the NATO table as an observer. Too bad Putin is an idiot and screwed that up.
Yeah well the only seat now that NATO will offer Putin and Russia will be at the naughty kiddies table. ;)

[Bruno Lotse]

Where is Putin? Right here
http://content.foto.mail.ru/list/t34ssmirnoff/illustrations/i-1655.jpg

Putin mounted Saakashvili

Geee-spot! Geee-spot!

[SUBMAN1]

There's no allies for Russia.
There are buyers, sellers, patsies....

Yep, same goes anywhere and Russia is looking like the biggest Patsie of them all!

-S

[Happy Times]

Where is Putin?
Right here


Putin mounted Saakashvili

I doubt it, its not his style.

http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2006/07/07/putin_wideweb__470x351,0.jpg

[Konovalov]

That is Garry Glitter judging by the photo, not Putin.

[Sea Demon]

There's no allies for Russia.
There are buyers, sellers, patsies....
Yep, same goes anywhere and Russia is looking like the biggest Patsie of them all!

-S
Exactly. Russia lost more elsewhere, than they gained in Georgia. They've opened themselves to NATO expansion to their West, lost the ability to effectively influence their former client states in any way, have helped Bush get missile defense deals inked, and have ruined their role in any Iranian issue.

And this is the ace!
And talking nukes is stupid. We have nukes as well. Lots of them. We can shower Russian cities with many nuclear warheads if necessary, so that is not even an issue here. That Russian General who tried to cower Poland (and it obviously didn't work) thinks we live in the 1960's here. Who the hell is advising these people?

[Happy Times]

There's no allies for Russia.
There are buyers, sellers, patsies....
Yep, same goes anywhere and Russia is looking like the biggest Patsie of them all!

-S

Exactly. Russia lost more elsewhere, than they gained in Georgia. They've opened themselves to NATO expansion to their West, lost the ability to effectively influence their former client states in any way, have helped Bush get missile defense deals inked, and have ruined their role in any Iranian issue.

And talking nukes is stupid. We have nukes as well. Lots of them. We can shower Russian cities with many nuclear warheads if necessary, so that is not even an issue here. That Russian General who tried to cower Poland (and it obviously didn't work) thinks we live in the 1960's here. Who the hell is advising these people?

Guys like him..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksandr_Dugin

[Bruno Lotse]

Some people still live in the Middle Ages.
Ask your guys fighting Taliban.

[Bruno Lotse]

That is Garry Glitter judging by the photo, not Putin. What, you mean its' Americans who really f**ed prez Saak up?
Hm. You might be right thogh...
Patsy is patsy, anyways.

[Sea Demon]

Guys like him..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksandr_Dugin

Very eye-opening. Thanks.

[Happy Times]

Guys like him..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksandr_Dugin

Very eye-opening. Thanks.

No totally sure what the current situation is, but he has been/is the leader of Russias geopolitical institute and one of Putins foreign policy advisers. Feel better?:D

[Sea Demon]

No totally sure what the current situation is, but he has been/is the leader of Russias geopolitical institute and one of Putins foreign policy advisers. Feel better?:D
Well, if he advised these "Unilateral" Russian actions, he might be up for execution. Or at least a long stay in a prison cell. If he's worried about Ukraine going NATO......well his advice just pushed the rest of the neighborhood in that direction as well.

But no, people like that don't seem to be of sound mind, nor will they actually advise Russia into a good position. This guy is kind of nutty.

[Happy Times]

No totally sure what the current situation is, but he has been/is the leader of Russias geopolitical institute and one of Putins foreign policy advisers. Feel better?:D
Well, if he advised these "Unilateral" Russian actions, he might be up for execution. Or at least a long stay in a prison cell. If he's worried about Ukraine going NATO......well his advice just pushed the rest of the neighborhood in that direction as well.

But no, people like that don't seem to be of sound mind, nor will they actually advise Russia into a good position. This guy is kind of nutty.

Now we come to the realisation that Russias foreign policy has been irrational for long periods in the past centuries..:rotfl:
Hope they can analyze that in the CIA and Pentagon..

[Digital_Trucker]

I'm not sure we're dealing with a mentally fit fellow here. Not unlike the guy currently occupying the oval office then :D

No politician can be considered mentally fit, can they?:D

[Bruno Lotse]

There Are No American Humvees In Georgia!
I guess you're wright.
All Humvees are taken by Russians by now.
VAE VICTIS !

[Jimbuna]

Where is Putin?
Right here


Putin mounted Saakashvili

I doubt it, its not his style.



LOL :lol:

[Bruno Lotse]

:up:

[sergbuto]

I'm not sure we're dealing with a mentally fit fellow here.
Not unlike the guy currently occupying the oval office then :D
Funny :lol:

[Skybird]

NATO meanwhile delivered a serious payback, saying that it will be no business as usual. Medwedew was said to have raised an eyebrow in - well, they are still undecided what it was, maybe it was concern. Different to him, Putin just looked like always. At the same time while NATO defended it's strong and tough role on the stage of world politics and landed its coup, Russian millionaires are said to have sacked four US Humvees for their private collection.

Sounds like a promising joint venture between the US and Russia. Send more, please.

4 Hummers vs. many more Eastern nations in your sphere of influence, candidates for equal partnership in NATO all, missile defense is a sure thing now, and the Iranian question has become alot easier. Russia is no winner here. Putin screwed himself and his nation big time.

Yes, sure. Now hoosh-hoosh to bed, and sweet dreams. Tomorrow is another day to play cowboys and indians again. Or Albanians and Serbs. Or Georgians and Ossetians. And look under your bed before turning off the light. Maybe there is a little evil Putin underneath. Kiss.

[Kapitan]

For the Russian soldier, there is no greater souvenir from a war like this. That just ticks me off that it would seem Russian soldiers seem to be under their own command.

This just shows that Russia has no real control over its soldiers. They are disorganized. If America were to ever go to battle with them, this would be a quick defeat for Russia.

-S

Dont under estimate one mans love of his country you will find most russian soldiers dont need a command to kill they will do it any way sounds disorganised it is but theres a great injection of patriotism within the services heck they even fight themselves to see whos the best as happend in red square 1997 i think it was.

I dont think personally the US stands much chance against the russian army simply because of numbers and the stockpiles of mothballed millatry equipment it could lay its hands on in a day (theres a storage facility near nizhney novgorad it houses atleast 12000 tanks and other vehicles and thats just one of many)

I think the USN would win if it went head to head with russia and the US airforce has a ok chance in air to air the only true advantage the USA have is thier stealth jets which would sway the ballence.

All in all though i think it may be a sort of lopsided yet level battle with both sides taking heavy losses but its something we may not know just yet but it would be very intresting my money oddly enough is sort of swayed towards the USA favour.

[Sea Demon]

Yes, sure. Now hoosh-hoosh to bed, and sweet dreams. Tomorrow is another day to play cowboys and indians again. Or Albanians and Serbs. Or Georgians and Ossetians. And look under your bed before turning off the light. Maybe there is a little evil Putin underneath. Kiss.

An utterly stupid and impotent response. :shifty:

[SUBMAN1]

Dont under estimate one mans love of his country you will find most russian soldiers dont need a command to kill they will do it any way sounds disorganised it is but theres a great injection of patriotism within the services heck they even fight themselves to see whos the best as happend in red square 1997 i think it was.

I dont think personally the US stands much chance against the russian army simply because of numbers and the stockpiles of mothballed millatry equipment it could lay its hands on in a day (theres a storage facility near nizhney novgorad it houses atleast 12000 tanks and other vehicles and thats just one of many)

I think the USN would win if it went head to head with russia and the US airforce has a ok chance in air to air the only true advantage the USA have is thier stealth jets which would sway the ballence.

All in all though i think it may be a sort of lopsided yet level battle with both sides taking heavy losses but its something we may not know just yet but it would be very intresting my money oddly enough is sort of swayed towards the USA favour.I forgot! A T64 is way superior to an M1! And it takes 10 MK48's to sink a Russian Akula, but only 1 Russian 53cm to sink a Seawolf.

We aren't going to have one of these conversations again are we? :D

-S

[SUBMAN1]

Yes, sure. Now hoosh-hoosh to bed, and sweet dreams. Tomorrow is another day to play cowboys and indians again. Or Albanians and Serbs. Or Georgians and Ossetians. And look under your bed before turning off the light. Maybe there is a little evil Putin underneath. Kiss.
An utterly stupid and impotent response. :shifty:I agree. :down:

-S

[Skybird]

Yes, sure. Now hoosh-hoosh to bed, and sweet dreams. Tomorrow is another day to play cowboys and indians again. Or Albanians and Serbs. Or Georgians and Ossetians. And look under your bed before turning off the light. Maybe there is a little evil Putin underneath. Kiss.

An utterly stupid and impotent response. :shifty:
Ah, that matches, for it reflects the grotesque quality and 180° distorted sense of realism of your postings perfectly. ;)

[SUBMAN1]

Yes, sure. Now hoosh-hoosh to bed, and sweet dreams. Tomorrow is another day to play cowboys and indians again. Or Albanians and Serbs. Or Georgians and Ossetians. And look under your bed before turning off the light. Maybe there is a little evil Putin underneath. Kiss.
An utterly stupid and impotent response. :shifty: Ah, that matches, for it reflects the grotesque quality and 180° distorted sense of realism of your postings perfectly. ;)Of course you can do no wrong. Your sense of the world is perfect. Please forgive me for questioning it.

-S

[bookworm_020]

Dont under estimate one mans love of his country you will find most russian soldiers dont need a command to kill they will do it any way sounds disorganised it is but theres a great injection of patriotism within the services heck they even fight themselves to see whos the best as happend in red square 1997 i think it was.

I dont think personally the US stands much chance against the russian army simply because of numbers and the stockpiles of mothballed millatry equipment it could lay its hands on in a day (theres a storage facility near nizhney novgorad it houses atleast 12000 tanks and other vehicles and thats just one of many)

I think the USN would win if it went head to head with russia and the US airforce has a ok chance in air to air the only true advantage the USA have is thier stealth jets which would sway the ballence.

All in all though i think it may be a sort of lopsided yet level battle with both sides taking heavy losses but its something we may not know just yet but it would be very intresting my money oddly enough is sort of swayed towards the USA favour.I forgot! A T64 is way superior to an M1! And it takes 10 MK48's to sink a Russian Akula, but only 1 Russian 53cm to sink a Seawolf.

We aren't going to have one of these conversations again are we? :D

-S
Brings to mind the old joke

One russsian tanker meets another russian tanker in paris and remarks "By the way, who won the air war?":hmm:

I don't think it will get any futher military than it has got, but there will be political fallout for along time yet. Both sides have handled this poorly.:nope:

[Bruno Lotse]

[quote=SUBMAN1]
Brings to mind the old joke

One russsian tanker meets another russian tanker in paris and remarks "by the way, who won the air war?":hmm:
:up:

[August]

One russsian tanker meets another russian tanker in paris and remarks "Where did you get captured?" :lol:

[Happy Times]

One russsian tanker meets another russian tanker in paris and remarks "Where did you get captured?" :lol:

"St Petersburg"

"Oh, they got me in the Moscow."

[August]

they got me in the Moscow."

:lol: :up:

Is that like the Moscow side of a northbound mule?

[Jimbuna]

An attempt to inject a little humour.

With the tense stand off between Russia and Georgia, France's president today announced an unconditional surrender just in case !

[Steel_Tomb]

If the **** hit the fan I think the NATO forces would be superior in the air, mainly because Russian aircraft obey orders from ground controllers without any option to use their initiative. NATO pilots are trained to take the initiative and act according to situations instead of blind mission orders. I have no doubt that the Russian air force would inflict some heavy casualties on some of the older airframes, especially with their IR technology... but the west has a very effective command and control system, with new AMRAAM missiles coupled with new fighters like the Typhoon and F-22 may just tip the balance in NATO's favour. Saying that, the Russians have some bloody good SAM systems, and would be a royal pain in the arse for any attacking force. So I think there would be heavy losses to these forces.

[baggygreen]

An attempt to inject a little humour.

With the tense stand off between Russia and Georgia, France's president today announced an unconditional surrender just in case !:rotfl: quote of the thread!

[Platapus]

An attempt to inject a little humour.

With the tense stand off between Russia and Georgia, France's president today announced an unconditional surrender just in case !:rotfl: quote of the thread!


Good one Jimbuna. I don't often literally laugh out loud but you got me on that one. My dog is giving me one of her "what the hell?" looks. :up:

[Zero Niner]

As an observer from the other side of the world, I think Putin has really overplayed his hand. Instead of scaring the former Eastern Bloc countries back to Russia's fold, the exact opposite has happened - witness Poland's quick agreement to the missile defense treaty after goodness how long of dithering.

The smart thing for Putin to do now is to pull back completely & quickly, at least to the borders pre-Aug 9. The West will be easily mollified. By delaying it just builds up suspicions of Russia's true intentions not only in the US and Europe, but the rest of the world.

Whatever moral high ground they had in invading Georgia proper has been lost.

[Jimbuna]

One more...last one :lol:

Overheard today at the airport check in desk, from a loud American couple-

" Ma'm, are you sure it is still safe to fly to Atlanta? Only we hear that the Russians have been attacking Georgia."

[Bruno Lotse]

Never mind,
sooner or later some kinda rock star makes some kinda kinky stuff
and you'll all forget about Georgia.

[Happy Times]

Never mind,
sooner or later some kinda rock star makes some kinda kinky stuff
and you all forget about Georgia.

Many of us wont, keep digging.

[Platapus]

I don't know if we have any Walt Kelly "Pogo" fans here (it helps if you are very very old).

In "Yes Santa Claus there is a Georgia",
One of his plot lines was centered around when Albert (the alligator) noticed, when looking at a map of the USSR, that there was a Georgia in the Soviet Union. Clearly the Russians must have stolen "our" Georgia and the inhabitants of the swamp started an adventure to steal it back.

I used to really enjoy that comic strip

[Digital_Trucker]

I don't know if we have any Walt Kelly "Pogo" fans here (it helps if you are very very old).

In "Yes Santa Claus there is a Georgia",
One of his plot lines was centered around when Albert (the alligator) noticed, when looking at a map of the USSR, that there was a Georgia in the Soviet Union. Clearly the Russians must have stolen "our" Georgia and the inhabitants of the swamp started an adventure to steal it back.

I used to really enjoy that comic strip

Pogo was a classic:up: They sure don't make 'em like that any more. Oh good grief, I'm starting to sound like my parents did:yep:

[Zero Niner]

Keep going Putin. The very thing you fear most will come to pass.

Russia's neighbours go their own way



Among the countries of the Commonwealth of Independent States (CIS), which 20 years ago were constituent parts of the USSR whose loyalty to Moscow was automatic, Russia has won remarkably few endorsements. Some Central Asian states have sent in aid to South Ossetia. But on the whole the response has been decidedly muted.
To be fair, Georgia too has drawn criticism. But gone are the days when Moscow could rely on satellite states to speak up for it. For Russia's leaders to declare that Russia was and always will be the "guarantor of stability" in the Caucasus is now a risky statement that could repel as well as draw regional backing.





Link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7575813.stm

[Jimbuna]

Keep going Putin. The very thing you fear most will come to pass.

Russia's neighbours go their own way



Among the countries of the Commonwealth of Independent States (CIS), which 20 years ago were constituent parts of the USSR whose loyalty to Moscow was automatic, Russia has won remarkably few endorsements. Some Central Asian states have sent in aid to South Ossetia. But on the whole the response has been decidedly muted.
To be fair, Georgia too has drawn criticism. But gone are the days when Moscow could rely on satellite states to speak up for it. For Russia's leaders to declare that Russia was and always will be the "guarantor of stability" in the Caucasus is now a risky statement that could repel as well as draw regional backing.





Link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7575813.stm

Good post :up:

As we say in the uk.....'What goes round, comes round'

[Bruno Lotse]

Keep going Putin. The very thing you fear most will come to pass.

Russia's neighbours go their own way



Among the countries of the Commonwealth of Independent States (CIS), which 20 years ago were constituent parts of the USSR whose loyalty to Moscow was automatic, Russia has won remarkably few endorsements. Some Central Asian states have sent in aid to South Ossetia. But on the whole the response has been decidedly muted.
To be fair, Georgia too has drawn criticism. But gone are the days when Moscow could rely on satellite states to speak up for it. For Russia's leaders to declare that Russia was and always will be the "guarantor of stability" in the Caucasus is now a risky statement that could repel as well as draw regional backing.





Link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7575813.stm

As long as Russians could waltz with these guys
http://content.foto.mail.ru/list/t34ssmirnoff/illustrations/i-1549.jpg


Russians could afford LOTS of things in the Caucasus.

You know who are they?