What do you do if you see enemy aircraft?

[Silver_Silence]

In one patrol I have my sub at 98% hull integrity. I crippled a small merchant ship and waiting for it to sink, and it is on its way down. Then my watch crew spotted aircraft(s). I didn't see anything, so I simply armed my flak gun. Planes are not difficult to shoot down in the naval academy. I think of it no more as I can't spot them. A little while later, suddenly come a splash and explosion and screaming. Oh I know something isn't right. I lost my flak gunner and my hull integrity come down to 68%, and that would mean I will lose a whole month just to repair to boat. I want stay on patrol as much as possible during happy time. I was really pissed. I drag the lost crew's body into the fore torp room and put up the next cannon fodder to arm the gun. My new gunner eventually shot the 2 swordfish out of the sky.

What do you do if you see enemy aircraft?
What does the flak gunner qualification do? It it worth to upgrade a crewman to a gunner?

Thx

[antikristuseke]

I only engage planes when i have no other choise, in your situation i would have crash dived and continued the wait underwater.

[Paul Riley]

Naturally,it depends on the immediate situation.
Against 1 or more planes you might be able to shoot them down,if you have the twin flak guns.Against more than say 2,I would increase speed to flank and crash dive to about 50m,then as you descend turn towards the plane's last known position.What this will do is give you a good chance to undercut the bomber's run as he comes in.
If the planes are already on you and crash diving is out of the option (due to a fall in speed as you dive) shoot it out with them,and allow them to make their bombing run,trying to also zig zag as they are shooting you.Then as they pass over in front of you immediately bellow "ALAARRRRRM!!" and then make your dive.
I would also recommend staying down until darkness,and if all is clear blow the tanks.
Using this info is probably only useful up to a certain point,as allied aircraft strength increases massively as the war grinds on.
Also,its a good idea to turn on any radar device you have,even Fumo 29,as its intended to detect aircraft.However,having said that,if your course is not facing towards the nearest allied air base then Fumo29 would be a bad idea as it only detects objects to the front and a little to the sides,you are blind everywhere else.I generally use Fumo29 radar during the night and during low visibility,like heavy storms,where it would allow me to still detect things and may also give me SOME cover just in case I was also being tracked by radar.
And probably most important of all,is to have 2 skilled flak gunners and a flak officer to direct them.
You are a wise man indeed to fear planes,they will make your life hell before long!

:ping:

[kranz]

Normally I restart my PC. You must remember that planes very lethal for subs so if you wanna play on realistic level you should avoid fighting with them- but if you cannot submerge safely you must man AA.

[FIREWALL]

Looks like this has been well answered. :up:

Last nite I was rereading Iron Coffins and the Bay of Biscay in the later years was a death zone for uboats.

Even with twin barrel aa guns.

There's even a part about 3 uboats well armed leaveing in a group. BdU thought this a good tactic against air attacks.

WRONG.:D

[Murr44]

I've set the option to submerge when aircraft are spotted. Aircraft are just too fast for me to deal with & I don't trust my flak gunner (even if he's been qualified) to handle them either. I used to stand & fight sometimes when I played stock but I won't try that with GWX. I did it once & got very badly beaten up...:o

[meduza]

If I spot the aircraft on time, I crash dive. If they surprise me and I dont have time to dive, I try to shoot him, and as soon as he's above me, dive before he turns back.

With the stock SH3, I manage to do this (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=923325&postcount=7) :D. Once.

@Paul Riley
Regarding the use of the radar, I like to pretend that it's been thrown overboard, because turning it on will attract all RAF and Royal Navy directly at you. :)

[predavolk]

I dive if at all possible. Although I must admit, with my new pair of dual rapid 20s, and my quad 20, I am feeling rather tempted to try them at least once. Maybe on the way home sometime.

[Paul Riley]

If I spot the aircraft on time, I crash dive. If they surprise me and I dont have time to dive, I try to shoot him, and as soon as he's above me, dive before he turns back.

With the stock SH3, I manage to do this (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=923325&postcount=7) :D. Once.

@Paul Riley
Regarding the use of the radar, I like to pretend that it's been thrown overboard, because turning it on will attract all RAF and Royal Navy directly at you. :)

Well,as soon as I run into problems with the radar maybe I will do the same,and lob it in the sea.As I say,I dont use it during daylight hours and when vis. is good.

Thanks for the tip anyhow. :rotfl:

[Tomcat84]

like heavy storms


Do planes fly and find you in heavy storms? That would seem odd.

I am still in 1940 ATM so i dont know yet :)

[Jimbuna]

Dive.....every time. A punctured pressure vessel is no longer a submarine.

Obviously flack qualifications increase the accuracy of your gunners.

[Kielhauler1961]

I concur with jimbuna. Dive as soon as you get the warning "aircraft spotted". Aircraft are worth very little renown in return for the serious damage thay can do to you. Even in 1939-40, when they tend to be Ansons, Swordfish or Hurricanes (GWX) you only have the slow firing, single, C/30 20mm, plus the even slower-fiing 37mm on IX's. It's not enough. By the time the Kriegsmarine flak had caught-up, Coastal Command had moved ahead several notches...

"Dive, dive, dive..!" Discretion is the better part of valour. You don't have to "crash dive" all the time. That can be a little embarrassing, especially in the North Sea or just off the coast of France. Keep the 'shallow depth meter' up while surfaced and go to 'ahead flank' (F5 IIRC) and select 25 metres to start with, and take it from there. You'll get down almost as fast as a 'CD' and without the risk of 'bottoming-out'.

[Paul Riley]

like heavy storms


Do planes fly and find you in heavy storms? That would seem odd.

I am still in 1940 ATM so i dont know yet :)

I think bad weather prevents planes early on,but I think as radar improved and with the addition of the leigh light then maybe that allowed planes to find a uboat in such conditions.I may be wrong.

[STEED]

What do you do if you see enemy aircraft?]

Shat your pants and hope for the best as you crash dive.

[Sailor Steve]

:rotfl: Steed! Well said!

For me:

"Fluegzeug geschistet!"

"ALAAAAAAARRRRRMMMMM!"

I've set the option to submerge when aircraft are spotted.
I keep mine set for 'Maintain Current Orders', but only because I can hit the 'C' key a lot faster than the AI will take it down on a normal dive. I've expressed the wish in the past that 'Crash Dive' was one of the options.

[Task Force]

I usualy zigzag and crash dive. Those little buzzing things are dangerious.:lol:

[Kielhauler1961]

quote:
Shat your pants and hope for the best as you crash dive.

quote:
Steed! Well said!

For me:

"Fluegzeug geschistet!"

"ALAAAAAAARRRRRMMMMM!"


Well, I don't see too much point in dying at 50 metres by ramming the boat into the sea-floor just to avoid getting killed 25 seconds earlier on the surface. But then again I drive a "Duck", nothing goes down quicker except a French...(edited for decency). All a matter of preference and co-ordination I suppose. If you train up your watch crew and stay submerged during daylight from 1939-41, and after that change it around, they see the attacking aircraft before it gets within attack range. I haven't been sunk by an aircraft for as long as I can remember, and I play on 90% (gotta have the event camera otherwise no screenies!)

[Sailor Steve]

Well, I don't see too much point in dying at 50 metres by ramming the boat into the sea-floor just to avoid getting killed 25 seconds earlier on the surface.
:rotfl:

Well, there's always that. I agree, shallow water does present its own arguments; and good ones they are.:sunny:

[Chisum]

Depending the year.
39-40-41-42 and maybe early 43, if you have specialized crew in AA, you can fire against aircrafts.

My system is:

-full ahead
-turn the ship to put the aircraft in your 180°
-let your specialists fired but watch always the aircraft
-makes some 45° right/left regularly to disturb the aircraft but takes care to don't disturb too much your own gunners.
-remember that everytime the planes fired and hit you, your Hull Integrity is affected...

Like this I killed 27 aircrafts in the last campagne, Suntherland, Catalina, Wellington and also Mosquito(but about this one it's better to crash dive !).


After half 1943: crash dive and changing road quickly !

[Jimbuna]

Depending the year.
39-40-41-42 and maybe early 43, if you have specialized crew in AA, you can fire against aircrafts.

My system is:

-full ahead
-turn the ship to put the aircraft in your 180°
-let your specialists fired but watch always the aircraft
-makes some 45° right/left regularly to disturb the aircraft but takes care to don't disturb too much your own gunners.
-remember that everytime the planes fired and hit you, your Hull Integrity is affected...

Like this I killed 27 aircrafts in the last campagne, Suntherland, Catalina, Wellington and also Mosquito(but about this one it's better to crash dive !).


After half 1943: crash dive and changing road quickly !

Aye...before the rockets get you :p

[Chisum]

Aye...before the rockets get you :p

Of course lol !

:p

[Paul Riley]

Err...rockets?! :huh: :o
You must be taking the p*ss here.Seriously?.

[nikbear]

Oh yes,they have rockets:nope:once experienced,never forgoten:damn:they can really spoil your day;)

[Letum]

Err...rockets?! :huh: :o
You must be taking the p*ss here.Seriously?.


Only in GWX afaik.

[nikbear]

If I spot the aircraft on time, I crash dive. If they surprise me and I dont have time to dive, I try to shoot him, and as soon as he's above me, dive before he turns back.

With the stock SH3, I manage to do this (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=923325&postcount=7) :D. Once.

@Paul Riley
Regarding the use of the radar, I like to pretend that it's been thrown overboard, because turning it on will attract all RAF and Royal Navy directly at you. :)

Is that true regarding radar:hmm:I've read in some books that it attracted allied planes,but just recently I've read in Martin middlebrooks "CONVOY" The Greatest U-boat Battle Of The War' that the RAF actually gave up trying to find U-boats from there radar and that the ony reason the germans belived otherwise was a captured RAF officer telling them that there subs could be tracked and found from there radar signature,does anyone have the deffinitive answer regarding this matter and which model does SH3/GWX use?:hmm:

[Tomcat84]

I recently read the memoir Iron Coffins by Werner. He says that BDU at some point broadcast all uboats not to use metox anymore cause the allies home in on it.

In the GWX manual it says this was a lie by a captured pilot, in reality the allies had new radar that used wavelengths that Metox didnt pick up.

Dont know what the game does, but I'd like to know :)

[Steeltrap]

Well something like 45-50% of all u-boat losses in WWII were due to aircraft or aircraft operating in conjunction with ships (this includes losses due to air attacks on harbours).

Aircraft were regarded as the single greatest threat to u-boats due to their speed, ability to surprise (related to speed and difficulty in detecting them) and weapons/sensors.

The fact is you should avoid aircraft like the plague. UNLESS you have NO CHOICE (due to prior damage or detecting the aircraft too late, by which I mean closer than about 4-6km) you should immediately dive.

Incidentally, you can edit the 'crash dive' depth so you can use it more regularly. I set mine for 50m.

Another thing: my view is that 'shallow water' means you change your tactics to avoid needing to dive, NOT that you fight on the surface because you can't dive quickly/deeply. Staying on the surface is usually a losing proposition - even early in the war, if you 'defeat' the aircraft you may well suffer significant casualties/damage, so you've still 'lost'.

Your job is to sink ships using your advantage of surprise/stealth. Doing anything else is contrary to that. If I were BdU I'd be asking what you were doing such that you were cornered on the surface by aircraft and you'd better have a good answer...."watching a ship sink" doesn't qualify as a good answer!!!

It was a failure of stock SH3 that people were so blase about aircraft (witness the post where the person shot down 52 in one patrol!!). They were killers, and u-boats rightly feared them (thank goodness the air-dropped homing torpedo isn't included!!). GWX/NYGM correctly altered this so you'll pretty much die regularly if you continue to stay on the surface near aircraft - even being damaged by near misses or air depth charges is better than staying on the surface to be bombed/strafed.

[astak9]

In the earley days I try to take them out (especially the bi-planes) Later in the war crash dives. (be carefull in shallow water;) )

[Task Force]

So far in my current carear with U-45 Ive seen two planes, Both those little bi planes and they are currently setting at the bottom of the North Sea.;)(currently in mid 1940) And weve attacked and sunk all/most of five convoys with over 400,000 tons sunk and seen only two planes.

[Chisum]

A last word: when aircraft is hited be carefull because often he continues his way and tries to explode on your deck !

[nirwana]

Well during daylight i run half surfaced at 7.5m depth which makes it possible to dive normally in time to avoid the negativ sideeffects of crash diving. Everything works the same way then std surfaced except it slows me down about 20% and possibly my accustic signature is higher. If im lucky and the planes are not fast fighters im submerged before being spotted. I engage planes only if my position is too far away from any base for fighters to engage me. Those are the only ones i dont dare to fight.

btw. If i need to stay to make sure my victim(s) are really sinking i do this at periscope depth cause the captain of the ship will call for assistance by radio. If he is in range of an airbase 15-20 min later planes are showing up and looking for me if its during daylight and the wheather permits it.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Well, the first thing that I do when I see an enemy aircraft... is to scream curses at it! :lol:

[nikbear]

Well something like 45-50% of all u-boat losses in WWII were due to aircraft or aircraft operating in conjunction with ships (this includes losses due to air attacks on harbours).

Aircraft were regarded as the single greatest threat to u-boats due to their speed, ability to surprise (related to speed and difficulty in detecting them) and weapons/sensors.

The fact is you should avoid aircraft like the plague. UNLESS you have NO CHOICE (due to prior damage or detecting the aircraft too late, by which I mean closer than about 4-6km) you should immediately dive.

Incidentally, you can edit the 'crash dive' depth so you can use it more regularly. I set mine for 50m.

Another thing: my view is that 'shallow water' means you change your tactics to avoid needing to dive, NOT that you fight on the surface because you can't dive quickly/deeply. Staying on the surface is usually a losing proposition - even early in the war, if you 'defeat' the aircraft you may well suffer significant casualties/damage, so you've still 'lost'.

Your job is to sink ships using your advantage of surprise/stealth. Doing anything else is contrary to that. If I were BdU I'd be asking what you were doing such that you were cornered on the surface by aircraft and you'd better have a good answer...."watching a ship sink" doesn't qualify as a good answer!!!

It was a failure of stock SH3 that people were so blase about aircraft (witness the post where the person shot down 52 in one patrol!!). They were killers, and u-boats rightly feared them (thank goodness the air-dropped homing torpedo isn't included!!). GWX/NYGM correctly altered this so you'll pretty much die regularly if you continue to stay on the surface near aircraft - even being damaged by near misses or air depth charges is better than staying on the surface to be bombed/strafed.

I belive someone is working on a mod for the 'air dropped homing torpedo'!FIDO it was called:o:huh::doh::damn::rotfl:that should spice things up a bit:up:

[Steeltrap]

Ah, no - it should make things deadly.

My recollection is that FIDO was so effective (unlike the initial German version that was rushed into service due to combat pressures before its 'glitches' were ironed out) that the Germans knew nothing of it until after the war - the only boats aware of it were destroyed by it......

NOT something I'd look forward to. I imagine your only real hope would be to shut down your engines and change course/depth....at least it didn't use active sonar.

[Cezbor]

Fast dive and change of course:yep: .....or ..... many stupid manuvers just to trick those @#$%&*@@### flying sons of Albion:nope:

[bookworm_020]

Put my head betwwen my knees and kiss my A$$ goodbye!:dead:

Dive like there's no tomorrow, and if I'm not fast enough, there won't be!:dead:

[Steeltrap]

A follow up to my previous:

"340 [Fido] torpedoes [were] dropped in 264 attacks of which 204 were against submarines. In 142 attacks US aircraft sank 31 submarines and damaged 15; in 62 attacks against submarines other Allies, mainly British, sank six and damaged three. Most of these submarine sinkings were German U-boats in the Atlantic, but five Japanese submarines were sunk by Fidos, one, I-52, in the Atlantic and four in the Pacific. OEG Study No. 289, 12 August 1946, is the main source for this conclusion."Fido was first used successfully by a British B-24 Liberator defending Convoy HX 237 on 12 May 1943, sinking U-456. This was followed by a USN PBY-5A from VP 84 which sank U-640 on 14 May 1943.

I still think it's true the Germans were unaware of it - due to its small warhead (about 45kg torpex) they probably thought the damage was from a near bomb/depth charge.....either way, these stats make it clear it's NOT a pleasant experience for the recipient:

- 27% of attacks lead to damage or destruction of target submarine (18% destruction, 9% damage). So there's a 1/4 chance it will hit you, and a 66% chance that any hit will be fatal.

YIKES!!!!

[Paul Riley]

I recently read the memoir Iron Coffins by Werner. He says that BDU at some point broadcast all uboats not to use metox anymore cause the allies home in on it.

In the GWX manual it says this was a lie by a captured pilot, in reality the allies had new radar that used wavelengths that Metox didnt pick up.

Dont know what the game does, but I'd like to know :)

I have had Iron Coffins for a couple of years,a really good book,and it CAN in fact help you with this game.
Regarding Metox,i'm not sure,but were'nt the emissions really miniscule,and hard for RAF bomber command/planes/ships to detect?.I havent had this device yet,but know a little about it,as it gave the uboat a few vital seconds to prepare for an incoming aerial attack! :o , and also notified the crew that they were being tracked by radar.
It sounds like a very vital piece of equipment to me,better than having nothing!.

[Murr44]

If you're using an early radar system turn it on for very short periods of time & don't forget to turn it off. Leaving it active is a sure fire way to draw some unwanted attention to yourself. One time I was found by a Catalina in the middle of a pitch black night, 100's of miles from the nearest land. I'd forgotten to shut the :damn: radar off! :oops: I escaped but it was a pretty friggin' close one.

[Chisum]

Well, the first thing that I do when I see an enemy aircraft... is to scream curses at it! :lol:
Are you afraid to get a ticket for excessive speed ??

:p

[SpeedyPC]

Question:- What do you do if you see enemy aircraft?

Answer:- Easy flush the toilet :yep: (crash dive), hated to get myself stuck in the mud in shallow water :nope: when my conn tower was rip in half :damn:

Anybody got any spare toilet paper :shifty: :doh: to remove the dirty mud when stuck in shallow water.


Edit:- Bernard :nope: order a crash dive too soon in shallow water while the captain (me) is sitting on the loo :damn:, I wish I could shoot him :damn: why? he's my brother :nope: :nope: :damn: :damn: I blame my mother cause I have to look after him.......God Crikey mum I want my gun back.

[Kielhauler1961]

I recently read the memoir Iron Coffins by Werner. He says that BDU at some point broadcast all uboats not to use metox anymore cause the allies home in on it.

In the GWX manual it says this was a lie by a captured pilot, in reality the allies had new radar that used wavelengths that Metox didnt pick up.

Dont know what the game does, but I'd like to know :)


Regarding Metox,i'm not sure,but were'nt the emissions really miniscule,and hard for RAF bomber command/planes/ships to detect?.I havent had this device yet,but know a little about it,as it gave the uboat a few vital seconds to prepare for an incoming aerial attack! :o , and also notified the crew that they were being tracked by radar.
It sounds like a very vital piece of equipment to me,better than having nothing!.

Herbert Werner, like the rest of the U-Bootwaffe, were "suckered" into believing this one. Metox was a 'passive' system for listening-out for signals only. It did not transmit so, therefore, could not be detected. It's like believing your hydrophones are giving your presence away to enemy ASDIC. British propaganda at its best - wonder how many boats were lost because they believed the story and turned the equipment off? The Germans became suspicious of Metox in the summer of 1943 because it suddenly seemed to have stopped working. Boats were being surprised by aircraft in the Bay of Biscay without a "peep" out of the RWR. This was because the Allies had moved to centimetric radar, something the Germans didn't think was possible to make small enough to fit in an aircraft. They were already suspicious of their own equipment and it only needed a little 'nudge' to tip them over the edge.

The main problem the U-Boats had was that they were too 'talkative.' Old technology brought up to date: High-Frequency Direction Finding (Huff-Duff) caught their radio transmissions 90% of the time from mid-43 onwards. That's why I keep 'schtumm' after leaving port.

[Sailor Steve]

Regarding Metox,i'm not sure,but were'nt the emissions really miniscule,and hard for RAF bomber command/planes/ships to detect?.I havent had this device yet,but know a little about it,as it gave the uboat a few vital seconds to prepare for an incoming aerial attack! :o , and also notified the crew that they were being tracked by radar.
It sounds like a very vital piece of equipment to me,better than having nothing!.
Mexox's emmissions were indeed very weak, and pretty much undetectable, but due to quick thinking on the part of a captured Brit the Germans came to think otherwise, and stopped using it.
http://www.uboat.net/technical/detectors.htm

[Puster Bill]

Everytime I see an enemy aircraft, I submerge. Usually it's voluntary, but sometimes it has not been :dead:

[meduza]

I wonder, if you replace your Metox with modern system (like Naxos), will it be able to detect an older type of radar emission?

For example, the Naxos is a S-band detector, but what if the airplane still has a older VHF band radar? Wil you be able to detect it with Naxos?

[Brag]

Obviously, I crash dive.

In shallow water, I keep to decks awash (depth 7 meters). If aircraft is sighted: order periscope depth and flank speed ahead. Begin a turn. Sit on the growler and prepare to S**t.

[Kraut]

Under what circumstances is diving to avoid aircraft not an option. I've never been in a position where I couldn't dive.

[Paul Riley]

I recently read the memoir Iron Coffins by Werner. He says that BDU at some point broadcast all uboats not to use metox anymore cause the allies home in on it.

In the GWX manual it says this was a lie by a captured pilot, in reality the allies had new radar that used wavelengths that Metox didnt pick up.

Dont know what the game does, but I'd like to know :)


Regarding Metox,i'm not sure,but were'nt the emissions really miniscule,and hard for RAF bomber command/planes/ships to detect?.I havent had this device yet,but know a little about it,as it gave the uboat a few vital seconds to prepare for an incoming aerial attack! :o , and also notified the crew that they were being tracked by radar.
It sounds like a very vital piece of equipment to me,better than having nothing!.

Herbert Werner, like the rest of the U-Bootwaffe, were "suckered" into believing this one. Metox was a 'passive' system for listening-out for signals only. It did not transmit so, therefore, could not be detected. It's like believing your hydrophones are giving your presence away to enemy ASDIC. British propaganda at its best - wonder how many boats were lost because they believed the story and turned the equipment off? The Germans became suspicious of Metox in the summer of 1943 because it suddenly seemed to have stopped working. Boats were being surprised by aircraft in the Bay of Biscay without a "peep" out of the RWR. This was because the Allies had moved to centimetric radar, something the Germans didn't think was possible to make small enough to fit in an aircraft. They were already suspicious of their own equipment and it only needed a little 'nudge' to tip them over the edge.

The main problem the U-Boats had was that they were too 'talkative.' Old technology brought up to date: High-Frequency Direction Finding (Huff-Duff) caught their radio transmissions 90% of the time from mid-43 onwards. That's why I keep 'schtumm' after leaving port.

Its very rare I break radio silence at all myself,the only time I use the radio if I have to,is at night after which I will make a mandatory dive for an hr or so just in case the signal was intrecepted,and when absolutely certain I am clear of any allied radar centres,like the main ones based at Britain for example.I will also use the radio if I need to report a contact that I was unable to sink due to various conditions,and again,I will make the standard dive just after broadcasting.

[Paul Riley]

Obviously, I crash dive.

In shallow water, I keep to decks awash (depth 7 meters). If aircraft is sighted: order periscope depth and flank speed ahead. Begin a turn. Sit on the growler and prepare to S**t.

I like the decks awash tactic myself brag.Pity you cant use the diesels at 8m,with just the tower protruding,7m sometimes IS a bit high still. :nope:
I would have thought,as long as the main opening to the tower was free you could maybe go down 9m?,and still operate the diesels?. *I only wish*

[predavolk]

I wanted to ask in my earlier posts but forgot:

In my IXB, with two dual rapid 20s, and the quad 20s, what are my chances of taking out a single enemy plane with a flak-qualified watch officer, two flak NCOs and a full-ranked sailor? I would think that we could throw up quite the barrier of lead in the sky.

And if it's not suicide, would you recommend firing starting at long or medium range?

Frankly, I'm not keen on the idea, but I thought I'd at least explore the option. There have been times where the airplane emerges (usualy from poor-ish weather) too close for me to crash dive.

[Jimbuna]

Your chances would be fair, but remember, later in the war the crews reach 'elite' status which means they become more proficient at sinking the boats from underneath the feet of daring Kaleuns. http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pirate.gif

[nikbear]

I was wondering Jim,by what percentage do they improve to get to 'Elite' status from when they start in 39':hmm:also as has been mentioned,later in the war allied radio direction finding and chattering U-boats led to alot of them meeting there doom,is that modeled in GWX?...If so I will keep shtum in future;):rotfl:

[Kraut]

I was wondering Jim,by what percentage do they improve to get to 'Elite' status from when they start in 39':hmm:also as has been mentioned,later in the war allied radio direction finding and chattering U-boats led to alot of them meeting there doom,is that modeled in GWX?...If so I will keep shtum in future;):rotfl:

I think it is modeled in GWX. The manual recommends not sending any status reports because of it if I remember correctly.

[Phaedrus]

For those of us playing DiD campaigns (dead is dead!)...


... this really isn't much of a question.



Dive.

Quickly.

Immediately.

[nikbear]

I was wondering Jim,by what percentage do they improve to get to 'Elite' status from when they start in 39':hmm:also as has been mentioned,later in the war allied radio direction finding and chattering U-boats led to alot of them meeting there doom,is that modeled in GWX?...If so I will keep shtum in future;):rotfl:
I think it is modeled in GWX. The manual recommends not sending any status reports because of it if I remember correctly.

Oh cr*p:o:huh::dead:I don't remember reading that in the manual:damn:I really should pay more attention to it:nope:thanks for the heads up,it explains a few meetings I've had in a career thats reached late '43:up:

[Paul Riley]

I wanted to ask in my earlier posts but forgot:

In my IXB, with two dual rapid 20s, and the quad 20s, what are my chances of taking out a single enemy plane with a flak-qualified watch officer, two flak NCOs and a full-ranked sailor? I would think that we could throw up quite the barrier of lead in the sky.

And if it's not suicide, would you recommend firing starting at long or medium range?

Frankly, I'm not keen on the idea, but I thought I'd at least explore the option. There have been times where the airplane emerges (usualy from poor-ish weather) too close for me to crash dive.

Myself,I would open fire at long range against ANY aircraft.Once or twice now I have suffered moderate damage even after what I thought was a well executed dive before the planes closed in.Some of their munitions seem really powerful,so I wouldnt wait til they were practically on you,open fire straight away! :arrgh!:
I cant imagine ANY pilot wanting to fly near a stream of flak,even if they werent hitting him.
Having said that,if your crew is really elite as you said,then maybe you could hold fire until the planes drew closer,increasing your chance of hitting,but this is only practical against bombers,fighter planes are much faster and would also be firing at YOU,and probably even evading your flak.

[Jimbuna]

I was wondering Jim,by what percentage do they improve to get to 'Elite' status from when they start in 39':hmm:also as has been mentioned,later in the war allied radio direction finding and chattering U-boats led to alot of them meeting there doom,is that modeled in GWX?...If so I will keep shtum in future;):rotfl:

There isn't a precise percentage but rather a scripted date where the status change becomes automatic.

I'm unaware of radio chatter assisting the Allies ingame....it was obviously very different in RL.

I could be wrong....tis a while since I've read the manual :lol:

[baggygreen]

Normally i dive, but its my first encounter with an allied aircraft in 2.0 (outside of WaW where i dive automatically.).

I have an IXC/40, so i thought bugger it, i hit flank and manned the flak guns. ordered the WO to engage target and next thing i know the twin 38mms are going bananas, the heavier single shot semi is pounding away, and the bloody deck gun crew has decided they want in on the action as well!!

Managed to throw up enough lead, and accurately enough, that the bastard never dropped a bomb and went down in flame after his second pass. Scored a few MG hits though, did a littl damage.. what have those catalinas got?? 50x 0 calibre MGs?!?:lol:

will be diving in future though.:know:

[Murr44]

Currently on my 3rd patrol with U-73 out of Salamis. During this "feindfahrt" we've been pestered by a Catalina & a Wellington (I think: it was nearly pitch black when the 2nd attack happened) that came out of nowhere. The Catalina inflicted some minor damage (flak gun) that was easily repaired. The Wellington(?) hosed our turm & deck but didn't wound or kill anyone as we went "downstairs" as soon as it was spotted. No damage that time either...I wonder when our luck will run out. Nasty things these "bees"!:o

I only send a patrol report when I'm on my way home & close to the base.

[predavolk]

Thanks for the answers. One BIG reason to stay on the surface and fight it out is realism. This was indeed what Doenitz ordered boats to do for quite some time in the later stages of the war, coasting a lot of them their lives. Diving whenever you see an airplane may be wise, but it's not realistic. So I'm going to try to fight it out at least once I think.

[predavolk]

Thanks for the answers. One BIG reason to stay on the surface and fight it out is realism. This was indeed what Doenitz ordered boats to do for quite some time in the later stages of the war, coasting a lot of them their lives. Diving whenever you see an airplane may be wise, but it's not realistic. So I'm going to try to fight it out at least once I think.

[BasilY]

The simple answer to your question is --- DUCK (hard turn and dive)! You submarine is NOT designed to attack planes, while those planes are designed to attack you.

However, if you want to fight, as I did in one of my careers this is what you need:
1. A conning tower with 3-4 flaks,
2. specialised flak crew (2-4 trained Warrant officers and Watch Officer)
3. flak guns with fast firing rate (320/min)
4. a good repairing team standing by.
5. A engine compartment with full efficency (to make fast turns)
6. Willingness to loss a few crews once in a while
7. enough H/I to last through the fight.

Even with all the aobve, NEVER fight if there are more than 3 planes.

During the career that I have all the above, I got a grand total of 7 planes... Many times a wounded plane (more than 20+) will excape back to base. My submarine obviously is in no position to chase down a plane, even a wounded one.

The conclusion is, DUCK!

[Jimbuna]

The simple answer to your question is --- DUCK (hard turn and dive)! You submarine is NOT designed to attack planes, while those planes are designed to attack you.

However, if you want to fight, as I did in one of my careers this is what you need:
1. A conning tower with 3-4 flaks,
2. specialised flak crew (2-4 trained Warrant officers and Watch Officer)
3. flak guns with fast firing rate (320/min)
4. a good repairing team standing by.
5. A engine compartment with full efficency (to make fast turns)
6. Willingness to loss a few crews once in a while
7. enough H/I to last through the fight.

Even with all the aobve, NEVER fight if there are more than 3 planes.

During the career that I have all the above, I got a grand total of 7 planes... Many times a wounded plane (more than 20+) will excape back to base. My submarine obviously is in no position to chase down a plane, even a wounded one.

The conclusion is, DUCK!

You forgot to mention the lucky rabbits foot :p

[Sailor Steve]

Thanks for the answers. One BIG reason to stay on the surface and fight it out is realism. This was indeed what Doenitz ordered boats to do for quite some time in the later stages of the war, coasting a lot of them their lives. Diving whenever you see an airplane may be wise, but it's not realistic. So I'm going to try to fight it out at least once I think.
It's only realistic if you want your career to end now. Yes, they were ordered to stay surfaced and fight it out. And they died. Even the much-vaunted U-Flak was fairly easy prey to a small, fast target.

With guns.

Lots of guns.

And rockets.

If you're playing GWX you might want to re-think that plan.

[predavolk]

Oh, I'm not saying it's a healthy idea to stay and fight, but many people here are striving for realism (isn't that what GWX is all about?). Given that many people also like to play Dead-is-Dead, I thought I'd mention that DiD is a lot less DiD if you ignore reality and avoid airplanes. Avoiding airplanes is, from a realism and difficulty viewpoint, about the same as reloading after dying from a tough convoy attack IMO. For the record, I ignore both (DiD and Doenitz's orders- I wanna live!).

[BasilY]

Oh, I'm not saying it's a healthy idea to stay and fight, but many people here are striving for realism (isn't that what GWX is all about?). Given that many people also like to play Dead-is-Dead, I thought I'd mention that DiD is a lot less DiD if you ignore reality and avoid airplanes. Avoiding airplanes is, from a realism and difficulty viewpoint, about the same as reloading after dying from a tough convoy attack IMO. For the record, I ignore both (DiD and Doenitz's orders- I wanna live!).

Doenitz also mentioned, in the Laconia Order, that the first priority of a Uboat skipper is the safety of the boat and crew. In the real world (for the sake of realism), your crew might very well mutiny if they think you are exposing them to un-necessary danger (maybe they will make you walk the plank:nope:). So here is a compromise for you, and myself (doing DiD), fight the first aerial encounter out (I just did, in my latest career, with HI 80% left). Then, with the danger of air attack and futility of fighting back etched on the mind of everybody in the boat, duck the rest.

[Sailor Steve]

You act like the crew and boat are real. Like there's something really at stake in the way you play.

I like that. Back when I played SH1 I would do a lifeguard mission, then imagine what it was like for the poor flyboys to be cooped up in my boat for a few weeks.:sunny:

[bigboywooly]

If the aircraft is too close to avoid by diving I man the guns for the first pass
Once the plane has passed the sub then I order a crash dive

I prefer to dive first though
The rockets make a real mess quick later in the war even on first pass

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h22/bigboywooly/ScreenHunter_057.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h22/bigboywooly/ScreenHunter_215-1.jpg

[spike12]

With me...well... ALARRRRMMMM,ALL AHEAD FLANK,HARD TO PORT/STARBORD(dedends on where the plane's coming from as I like to turn towards it)and finally,DIVE AWAYYYYY DIVE AWAYYYYY !!!!!!!!!!!:p

[Schöneboom]

Imagine this scenario: You're in shallow water, hardly more than periscope depth. Caught on the surface by a bomber squadron -- and they kill your whole flak crew. You can either replace them with guys who won't be any better (more likely worse) -- or you can dive at flank and turn. Either way, time to start praying! :o

[Task Force]

I dont take on those things in late war, With GWX those bullets can cause some serious damage, They can easly kill your entire crew.:yep: They should be your biggest fear, even higer on the totem pole than distroyers.;)

[predavolk]

That's a good solution BasilY. And I'm chasing your 2,000,000 career tonnage mark, but I might fall short. It depends on what I can do with my XXI now. I just had to try one out for kicks. But for pure tonnage, I probably should've stuck with my IXB and the Caribbean.

[PappyCain]

We put a bikini clad blow up doll on the bridge. Really works. One time the boys used helium and she shot skyward and the pilot freaked out ...

[Von Manteuffel]

If you have enough water under your keel - Dive and turn at ahead flank, changing the direction of your turn as soon as you hit periscope-depth and are no longer leaving a visible wake on the surface.

If you can't dive - Ahead flank and do what you can with the flak guns. Twist and turn to present the least favourable target to the attacking plane - running at flank broadside on to the line of attack is often the best choice agaisnt bombs. Head on agaisnt a strafing attack presents the smallest target to the plane's forward-pointing guns but if they get lucky they walk their rounds the full length of your boat - So, even though it's a bigger target I usually try to get broadside on to the attack - but only when I have no other choice and only until I can dive.

Against aircraft, my rule is avoid if humanly possible.