SHIV less "immersive" than SHIII?

[jamz]

One of the things I really liked about SHIII is that you could look around the command room, and if you wanted to "take over" the navigator's position, you could just click on him and get into his slot- while still being able to see the interior of the boat. Same with the weapons officer, XO, etc. It was wonderful to be able to see the interior from their different angles (without having to resort to Ctrl-F2).

In SHIV, I really miss that ability. I mean, I can't even see a dang compass when I'm in the control room, other than the one on my HUD, but I like getting rid of that for a nicer, more immersive look....you'd think a compass is a pretty important instrument, for a boat commander.

Is there way to take over a certain officer's position in the control room? I know you can sort of do it with the sonar and radar operators, via the buttons on the bottom (not as good) but I'd really like to do the same with the crew in the command room.

A very pretty game, otherwise though, I'm only on my first (patched) patrol, up to 70k tons, en route to rearm and refuel for further patrol.

[Rockin Robbins]

Welcome Jamz! In order to sell enough games to make a profit, games must be able to run on a certain critical mass of machines not of latest and greatest speed. So compromises have to be made.

For SH4, the company decided that the big difference was to be eye candy. Eye candy is very expensive in memory and clock cycles for a computer, so compromises had to be made to allow Silent Hunter the Eye Candy to run on enough machines to make a profit possible. Sacrificing the stuff that you miss was the price that had to be paid.

Actually, for performing the game functions, nothing real was lost. It is just another way of doing things and we have all made peace with the changes long ago. I even think it was a pretty good trade.

It also made SH4 enough different from SH3 that it is worthwhile to continue playing both games. Contrary to Ubi's belief, SH3 is far from an obsolete game, and deserves more than to be given away for $4.95 in a Ubi on-line fire sale. It's a shame when a company doesn't support its own assets. But they're rich and don't have to. PC games are just an idle backwater for them and not where the real action is.

[buddha95]

its like dating a fat chick,,,, just make believe its the only one in the world and you'll be just fine.

[tomoose]

I suppose it depends on what you want out of the game. I find each game immersive in different aspects. DC attacks in SHIII, to me, are more intense and more 'dangerous' than SHIV but I think that kinda reflects the historical aspect in that anti-sub warfare seems to have been more prevalent in the Atlantic than the Pacific. Conversely, the manual targetting in SHIV I find more immersive but that may be because I suck at it, LOL.
I think both games have their respective appeal. I still enjoy both (again, thanks mainly to patches and mods).

[TDK1044]

I think it's in the eye of the beholder. I play Lurker's UBoat Atlantic Campaign mod, complete with a mod for all German crew voices, and I find the game to be very immersive. :D

[jamz]

I enjoy playing IV more than III now, possibly due to being a bit burned out with III and loving the way IV looks, but I really kinda miss the feeling of claustrophobia when all you can do is wander around the boat, going into various compartments, and thinking "finally, some fresh air!" when up on the bridge.

Maybe it's time to start modding. ;)

I think my ideal game is with all voice interface, no HUD, and able to see all the necessary dials from your spot in the command room. Just like being there only without the danger of being crushed! :D

[prince_vlad]

In my opinion SH3 is harder (the AI even on normal are tough) than SH4.SH 4 looks better relatively because of the progress of technology (better graphic cards, effects etc).Still I don't get it why you bother for something worthless : to wander around the boat:D . Is THAT the reason you're playing the game? That's why you bought it mate? The game is made for some other serious reasons.(see the...manual):hmm:

[skookum]

The game is made for some other serious reasons. Dude, it's a game. By definition it's for entertainment (albeit "serious" entertainment). I and others play this game to escape for a while and pretend we're a submarine skipper. Anything that adds to that fantasy and makes it more immersive has value in my opinion. It's not just about making the numbers work, the game has to "feel" right. And it should be fun too. I have a lot of respect for developers who take as much time to add and refine features that improve the feel of the game, as they do to ensure the game is technically perfect.

[Sailor Steve]

Well said skookum! Full interiors are low on my wish list, as I don't think they're necessary for immersive play. But if they end up in a game because people requested them, you can bet your last dollar I'm going to go look at them!

I agree with the OP that it would have been nice to continue right-clicking on the officers and looking at things from their perspective, but I also like the changes SH4 has made, especially the crew management system, with its automatic watch change. I'm looking forward to what the game looks and feels like in another year or two.

[SteamWake]

I believe that the developers fully intended to include the functions the OP is mentioning. Notice how some of the sailors react when you 'click' on them. I fully believe the developers worked their asses off on this labor of love but...

However as the poem says "Fly endless time", in order to meet production schedules, satisfy financial interests, and simply "Get the damn product on the shelfs" that feature dident make it.

I dont know if any of you played SH4 at release but it was obviously an unfinished product. What we have now is a far sight better albeit still unfinished in some ways.

Its still an excellent game/simulator. Yes it would have been nice to move about the sub. Yes it would have been nice to commandeer a station.

Reality is you can only do so much in so much time and still make a profit.

Yes a profit.

The modders are a wonderful bunch and add alot to the game. Kudos to them. They work wonders within the bounds they have to work with. But they have the luxury of time and no real overhead other than their labor.

Even then occasionaly some jackass comes along culls their stuff and trys to pass it off as their own and trys to make a profit. That would be called stealing. Certinly not a labor of love.

In conclusion, I will have to agree that in some ways SH3 was more immersive than SH4. But in the same spirit SH4 is superior to SH3 in some ways. It must be or I would still be playing SH3 or SH2 or...

Anyhow just my point of view :|\\

[Orion2012]

I believe that the developers fully intended to include the functions.

The modders are a wonderful bunch and add alot to the game. Kudos to them. They work wonders within the bounds they have to work with. But they have the luxury of time and no real overhead other than their labor.


I noticed that they did look at you when clicked on, which to me indictaed that they were intended to be maned.

I agree that in most cases excellent games are games that have basically no-overhead finish time,unfortunatly in a world of corporate mergers, and by that I mean lets just face it, small game companies just don't have what it takes financially and end up being swallowed by larger companies who are primarily Self-Publishing. (Ubisoft being one of them)

As gaming tends to shift into a console dominated world development time just isn't something that that can be a looted. Games move consoles, big games move lots of consoles and MOST hardware manufacturers LOSE money on the console at release. The Xbox360 cost allmost $600 in hardware to manufacture yet was released at $399. How do you recopu that money, GAMES! (and albeit accessories). So in order to make money PC games have been shifted to the back burner or the "backwater" as it was to eliquitly put.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, Dev time= money. Developing a game with "eye candy" inevitably does take longer, so when the development time begins to run a little long, features get cut, and no developer or publisher is going to spend more money on a game then what they will actually make in selling the game.

Just my opinion, take it with a grain of salt.

[prince_vlad]

[/quote] Dude, it's a game. By definition it's for entertainment (albeit "serious" entertainment). I and others play this game to escape for a while and pretend we're a submarine skipper. Anything that adds to that fantasy and makes it more immersive has value in my opinion. It's not just about making the numbers work, the game has to "feel" right. And it should be fun too. I have a lot of respect for developers who take as much time to add and refine features that improve the feel of the game, as they do to ensure the game is technically perfect.[/quote]


No argument about that dude (the game its' for entertainment).I was saying something else;). If you read again his thread it results that SH4 is not a game good enough BECAUSE it doesn't have that silly perspective ( to take "control" of crew and wander in 5 m long). As if SH4 is about wandering on the boat or as if this wouldn't be possible is less entertainment and has LESS "feeling"...Come on, be real dude! SH4 is NOT about all these! SH4 is about hunting the pray,is about crossing fingers when they throw depth charges in the water and about the feeling that you are SMARTER than the enemy making the difference by what you are thinking and doing in the game, it has a lot of feeling (graphic and sound and what they KICK in you , THAT makes the feeling in a game) BUT not because of that "wandering"... Hope you won't get me wrong this time dude:sunny:

[Rockin Robbins]

I want to change the oil in the diesels: all four of them individually!!!!:up:

[SteamWake]

I want to change the oil in the diesels: all four of them individually!!!!:up:

and do it when its hot so you can get 2nd degree burns and call out "MEDIC" :p

[jamz]

No argument about that dude (the game its' for entertainment).I was saying something else;). If you read again his thread it results that SH4 is not a game good enough BECAUSE it doesn't have that silly perspective ( to take "control" of crew and wander in 5 m long). As if SH4 is about wandering on the boat or as if this wouldn't be possible is less entertainment and has LESS "feeling"...Come on, be real dude!


I believe you misunderstood my OP. I lamented the absence of feel of a part of the game, I did not declare the game "not good enough"! Otherwise I would not have retired SHIII and been playing SHIV at every available free opportunity. :)

We can both enjoy different pats of the game, Vlad. That's what makes these interactions so interesting! :up:

[Rockin Robbins]

How about we beat on the fact that equipment breakdowns are just not part of the game. Yet, in battle after battle, the outcome was determined or shaped by whose equipment broke and what they did about it.

Hey, I just said something new! Time to shut up.:yep:

[SteamWake]

How about we beat on the fact that equipment breakdowns are just not part of the game. Yet, in battle after battle, the outcome was determined or shaped by whose equipment broke and what they did about it.

Hey, I just said something new! Time to shut up.:yep:

I have stuff 'break down' all the time. Usually due to a lead overdose or close proximity to rapidly expanding devices...

Now tell me, what does spraying water have to do with a broken radio :hmm:

[Orion2012]

I have stuff 'break down' all the time. Usually due to a lead overdose or close proximity to rapidly expanding devices...

Now tell me, what does spraying water have to do with a broken radio :hmm:

The water sprayed the radio :up:

[Rockin Robbins]

I want to change the oil in the diesels: all four of them individually!!!!:up:
and do it when its hot so you can get 2nd degree burns and call out "MEDIC" :p
Yes! With the authentic smell of burning flesh!:huh:

[John Channing]

I want to change the oil in the diesels: all four of them individually!!!!:up:

and do it when its hot so you can get 2nd degree burns and call out "MEDIC" :p


You're in the Navy, Sailor. You'd better call for a Corpsman!

JCC

[SteamWake]

I want to change the oil in the diesels: all four of them individually!!!!:up:

and do it when its hot so you can get 2nd degree burns and call out "MEDIC" :p


You're in the Navy, Sailor. You'd better call for a Corpsman!

JCC

I knew that was comming... :rotfl:

[skookum]

As if SH4 is about wandering on the boat or as if this wouldn't be possible is less entertainment and has LESS "feeling"...Come on, be real dude! SH4 is NOT about all these! SH4 is about hunting the pray,is about crossing fingers when they throw depth charges in the water and about the feeling that you are SMARTER than the enemy making the difference by what you are thinking and doing in the game, it has a lot of feeling (graphic and sound and what they KICK in you , THAT makes the feeling in a game) BUT not because of that "wandering"... Hope you won't get me wrong this time dude

We just have different taste in gameplay. Just because you could care less about a feature doesn't mean others feel the same way. That's why this thread appeared in the first place.

[Rockin Robbins]

I still think the situation is: how much can our average computer put up with before it just chokes and dies? In SH4 eyecandy is the priority and events and features that were not related to putting the enemy on the bottom were jettisoned. People who were having good performance from SH3 STILL had to spend money upgrading systems to enjoy SH4.

You can't make a profit selling a game that you have to buy a $5,000 computer to play. If you can't do it with a $1,000 computer you're going to fail. A good couple of games today beats a perfect game tomorrow because unless the good games of today produce a profit there can be no perfect (or better) game tomorrow. Its development has to be paid for.

The word "profit" is not the moral equivalent of "serial killer." Profits of publicly held companies like say.... the oil companies, don't go to John D Rockefeller any more. They are distributed to their shareholders, predominately mutual funds, 401(k) participants, company pension funds and small private investors. Kill those profits and you kill your own future, especially if you're young and have yet to accumulate any wealth. Have at it! This word brought to you by Barack Obama for President.:rotfl:

In my daughter's words, "That was random!"

[Seminole]

Interiors? Wandering About the boat? Immmersive ? Non-immersive?

It was true buck in Silent Service, or Wolf Pack, or AOD, or Silent Hunter 1, or 2, or 3 and now 4...if you are going to play the subsim game you are going to be pretty much chained to the navigation map for the overwhelming majority of your time.

Nobody I know has ever been able to overcome that limitation...unless of course there is somebody out there with the time and patience to play in real time...:o


...but I do recall someone starting a thread once stating they were attempting it....I can't remember if this guy ever posted more than 1 or 2 updates to his real time adventure....:shifty:

[SteamWake]

Hell even in flight simulator you cant get up and wander about the cabin.

[jamz]

Well, in an airplane, you're really not supposed to get up and wander around! ;)