Detection at TC

[Stingray67]

Hi all.

My alter ego is currently West of Grenada in the Caribbean at 126 m listening to inaccurate DCing. It is June 1943 so I guess I should be happy it is not worse. :-)

Two questions have popped up, not necessarily because if this though.

First: Is it more likely to be detected submerged if you are on TC. There has been a number of occasions where I have slipped the net and the escort(s) are on the way back to the convoy where I have been detected when trying to speed things p a bit (never more than TC 16 or 32 though)
They escort has definitely lost me and ma heading back to herd the flock, but at TC it turns around and start looking for me quite accurately. I don't understand the inner workings of SH3 to see whether my thseis holds water or not, but it would be interesting to hear any input. I run SH3 1.4b+GWX 2.1+SH3 Commander 3.13.

Second: Is there any way to alter the ship classification presented to you when you spot a target through the UZO or periscope. Even on full manual you get "Destroyer", "Tanker", "Cargo" etc. I guess this is hardwired into the game but even this broad classification makes identification a bit easy...especially when you are at the limits of your visual range (10,000 m?)

Happy sailing to you all.

[Kielhauler1961]

Hi Stingray67.

There was big discussion about this over on the Ubi forum recently. I suggested from my experiences that using TC in close proximity to the enemy seems to make you more detectable. Few agreed with me and we all eventually settled for the option that it just makes your crew respond more slowly to events. I'm not convinced however. Trying, while tired, to quickly get away from a Tribal the other day at x8, he suddenly came racing towards me at full speed from a distance of 6000 metres!

I am sure that using high TC makes the boat more visible to the enemy, but I can't explain why. Don't use it until the nearest warship is hull-down on the horizon.

As for your second question, check the "no weapon's officer assistance" and "use manual targetting" boxes in the realism options menu. You are now completely left to your own devices and when you drift the crosshairs over a target, all you will get is "ship"!!! You then have to identify it using the recognition manual. You will also be required to work out angle on bow, speed etc.. Good luck.

[meduza]

I don't think that the TC makes you more detectable, it just gives you less time to react.

For removing the ships' ID, check this (http://www.subsim.com/tips/tip_sh3.php), at the bottom of the page. Backup the file before making any changes.

[Captain Nemo]

I am sure that using high TC makes the boat more visible to the enemy, but I can't explain why. Don't use it until the nearest warship is hull-down on the horizon.

The other day I was submerged at silent speed and was being hunted by a Black Swan class sloop. He was around 1,250 metres away when I decided to speed things up a little because he was dropping depth charges way off target. I increased to 64X TC. Doing this did not make the Black Swan aware of my true position and I escaped without incident. So I'm not sure that TC makes much difference, if any.

Nemo

[Stingray67]

Kielhauler1961:

Thanks for the reply. It is always nice to see that other people have the same gut feeling as you do. We all want confirmation, don't we? :-)

As for checking the boxes, I have. I am going full manual but I am still presented with "general" ID classifications. I don't want those either.

I will try to do it accordning to the link Meduza gave me. Thanks for that BTW.

I'll just get to port (or get killed first). :-?

[danlisa]

Actually the opposite is true.:lol:

TC makes you harder to detect in terms of game coding. Although this may not be noticeable within the game.

Lets use Aircraft as an example:

At 1xTC patrolling aircraft follow a precise course with active sensors covering every degree of their sensor arc. The AC also travel ALL of their allotted course. So AC travel to A > B > C > D > E

At +512xTC aircraft still follow a precise course BUT 'jump' certain distances at predefined intervals while doing this their sensors still cover the same detection arc BUT they are less likely to 'spot' you. So in this instance AC travel A > C > E, skipping point B & D, very handy if you are at point B/D.;)

The same is true of all 'AI' within the game.

So to the OP's question, it may seem that you are detected easier/sooner while submerged but the game does not work that way coding wise. It is just a trick of the mind as time is passing faster leaving you less time to react to or correct your actions.

Clear as Mud? I thought so.

[Stingray67]

Crystal clear all the way. I understand. Thanks for enlightening me to the way this monster actually works.

BUT! There have been several instances where an escort is going away after tiring of looking for me or pounding me with ashcans. They go hellbent for leather to join their convoy or resume their original course. If I leave it at that...no problem. He goes away and I am happy.

In those instances when I have, at this moment, gone to TC16 up to 64 the escort have doubled back, started accurate searches for me and sometimes atttacked me. First time I think I was killed. :-(

All due respect to they way the coding works per your description. I don't see the explanation for what I have experienced. I guess it could be some random search pattern paying off for him, but this is way too much repetition for me to think it is serendipity.

[danlisa]

BUT! There have been several instances where an escort is going away after tiring of looking for me or pounding me with ashcans. They go hellbent for leather to join their convoy or resume their original course. If I leave it at that...no problem. He goes away and I am happy.

In those instances when I have, at this moment, gone to TC16 up to 64 the escort have doubled back, started accurate searches for me and sometimes attacked me. First time I think I was killed. :-(

All due respect to they way the coding works per your description. I don't see the explanation for what I have experienced. I guess it could be some random search pattern paying off for him, but this is way too much repetition for me to think it is serendipity.
No problem.

I too have experienced this.

Did you remain at the same speed and silent running after you thought the DD was gone? Or did you increase speed and start reloading and then go to TC? I've done this.:lol:

Where there any crippled ships nearby? If so, their sensors are still active and WILL call the DD/Escort back. I've done this too.:lol:

Depending on which version of the game you are using, Stock or Modded, Escorts & DD's can and are scripted to conduct random sensor sweeps whilst protecting convoys. Sometimes these sweeps will almost take them out of visual range of the convoy they are protecting. Now, IIRC, in GWX these random sensor sweeps automatically put the vessel on high alert and therefore all sensors within it's arsenal are active, so it's entirely possible that a retreating DD will double back after picking up contact with you again.

I honestly think that if you recreated the exact circumstances again and provided you stayed at 1kt Silent running and tried at 1xTC, escaping without being detected, and then tried again at 64xTC the outcome would be the same.

[Stingray67]

Danlisa!

I stayed at silent running, same depth, speed and course. I did nothing that would have changed my detectability (not a word...I now :-))

In the cases I can remember it has been solitary escorts, so no herd to protect.

It is SH3 1.4b+SH3 Commander 3.13+GWX 2.1 and the only mods I have are 16 km, Lifeboats 3B, Torepdo Damage 2, GWX Open hatch, 26th April fixes and Armed Trawler fix

[danlisa]

V.Strange.:-?

However, if this vessel was moving away and was at some distance before doubling back after loosing sensor contact with you, something triggered/caused it to reacquire you, that or due to TC it skipped its next waypoint and it's new course actually brought it back towards you & thus established a new sensor lock.

Either way, I shall look for this on my next patrol.:up:

[Stingray67]

Could be.

Will be interesting to hear if you come up with something.

Happy sailing.

[Kielhauler1961]

@ danlisa,

Stingray's experiences mirror my own. It's got to the point where, when I need to sneak away from an escort (with or without convoy) I enable silent running, dive to 200 meters (or whatever I can get away with), point my ass at 180 degrees to his projected course and go down the pub for two hours. I can't risk using TC in proximity to the enemy anymore.

Some weeks back, driving a type II, I was heading westbound through the Orkney - Shetland gap and my sonarman picked up a contact "Warship moving fast, bearing 080, constant distance". I tracked the contact for a time and established he was heading east at a distance of about 10-12 km, at an estimated speed of 15 knots+.

Wishing to complete my transit as quickly as possible, and figuring I was safe from detection (submerged, 25m) and given his speed, distance and course, I increased TC to x64 and the next thing I know is "We're taking damage, Sir!" He somehow detected me at extreme range, but only because I put on TC. It was a V&W class destroyer, all by itself, and it took me four hours to lose him, and then I had to head back to base for repairs.

In my experience, high TC DOES make the boat more detectable. I then re-loaded the previous save: followed the same course, had the same encounter with the same V&W, at the same time, in the same place. Left it on x1 and went down the pub. When I came back he was hull-down on the horizon, bearing 190, hadn't alttered course one bit and making 12 kts. TC does make a difference, from personal experience.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining about it. It is after all an artificial mechanism to get through the "boring bits", but gamers need to be aware of the "X-factor".

[danlisa]

@ danlisa,
Some weeks back, driving a type II, I was heading westbound through the Orkney - Shetland gap and my sonarman picked up a contact "Warship moving fast, bearing 080, constant distance". I tracked the contact for a time and established he was heading east at a distance of about 10-12 km, at an estimated speed of 15 knots+.

Wishing to complete my transit as quickly as possible, and figuring I was safe from detection (submerged, 25m) and given his speed, distance and course, I increased TC to x64 and the next thing I know is "We're taking damage, Sir!" He somehow detected me at extreme range, but only because I put on TC. It was a V&W class destroyer, all by itself, and it took me four hours to lose him, and then I had to head back to base for repairs.
If this situation is indicative of your current findings in TC detection I have a conceivable explanation. I don't think he detected you at all. I think his waypoint path was directly placed on your course and due to you being submerged presumably traveling at slow speeds to conserve battery life, the V&W Class actually caught up with you while you were at TC.

In the Orkney / Shetland gap there is always a scripted patrolling ship (more sometimes), which if you open the SCR layer within the Mission Ed will show as diagonally zigg-zagging this narrow waterway.

In this instance, it is plausible that you, traveling at 3-4 kts (guess), incidentally making a lot of noise at this speed, were in fact traveling slowly enough at TC for the VW Class to come back around on his designated patrol course and for him to actually detect you.

Edit - Unless you have edited your TC settings, something doesn't add up. If you had been detected, your TC would have automatically dropped to either (max) 32x but more likely 8xTC when being hunted.:-?

[Kielhauler1961]

Hi, Danlisa, thanks for the reply.

I was only doing 2kts, hugging the north shores of Orkney. Didn't have silent running on. I have altered my TC values in SH3 Commander: x2 for when being hunted, so he must have been on me in a flash

Like I said, when I re-loaded the save game and did exactly the same transit at x1, the V&W went steaming past, and out of sight (well, it was never in sight in the first place), without any change of course (E). It's not the first time this sort of event has happened. I've been playing the game since it first came out and these high TC "anomalies" date all the way back to 2005.

I may be wrong but have yet to be convinced that high TC doesn't make the boat "louder". The pub's not complaining. Whenever I turn up they figure I'm playing SH3!