Do you think I need a sound card?

[sharkbit]

Last couple of days, I've been having a lot of CTD's after 20 minutes or so of play. I downloaded and installed Thomsen Soundpack V3 a couple of days ago while I was in port along with a couple of other mods.
The first time I played afterwards, I seemed to have no problems for about an hour or so and had to exit normally. (Great sound effects, by the way...great mod!!!:rock: )

Yesterday, mid patrol, I started to have multiple CTD's after about half hour or so of play. A couple were only after 10 minutes or so. I got pretty frustrated and did the cardinal sin of disabling Thomsen Sound Mod but I had the same problem.

Before now, I normally can expect a CTD after about an hour or so, but sometimes I can go 4 hours or more before a CTD. I've come to expect and do tend to save a fair amount of time. I just think it might be my computer. It is old and we bought it used from my wife's work for a good deal. It is by no means top of the line and does it's job. I've done a little upgrading(new graphics card and upped the RAM) and it works well with other applications.

Now for the meat of this post:
One thing I've noticed is most of the time that the game crashes, it seems to happen when there is some sound happening(creaks/groans. etc.) and it seems to be stuck on that sound and looping and then I get the CTD.
So I'm wondering if a sound card might be the problem, my computer just is not right for the game, or I have some other issue and the CTD's during a sound loop might be coincidence. I'm stumped.

Can anybody give me any advice?

Sorry for the lengthy post, but I've been pretty frustrated :damn: the last couple of days. I'm thinking of abandoning this current patrol. starting back at port, and disabling Thomsens Sound mod and seeing if that makes a difference. I hate to disable it though, it is pretty awesome, what I've heard so far.

System Specs:
Windows XP with SP2
Pentium 4
2.0 Ghz Processor
1.0 GB RAM
Radeon 9000 Series Graphics card.
Creative Audio ES1371/ES1373 Sound card-came stock with the computer.

I'm playing SH3 with the following:
V1.4b
GWX2.1
SH3Commander
Thomsen's Sound Pack V3
GWX2.1 Mission Orders 1.3
GWX2.1 16km atmosphere
GWX2.1 Lite Harbor Traffic

Thanks for any help.
:)

[Wolfehunter]

Is it an onboard sound card? Most decent motherboard come with a good card. But if not then you should get a nice soundblaster. X-FI are the current mobos and they're pretty good. You can also get maybe some older cards from bargan bins.

Only problem is make sure the sound card is compatible with your motherboard. Some sound cards aren't compatible and you can have issues.

I would suggest more ram dude that would help.

Good luck dude.

Also video ram has a small effect.:yep:

[Reece]

I agree with Wolfehunter, the game is more demanding with so many addons, my Sons computer only has 1gb & he can't play with my setup, however it runs stock ok.:yep:
It could also be a problem with various other mods you have enabled, if you have a corrupt ship install, when the ship comes in contact view you can get a CTD, this applies to sound, land objects etc, but the best bet, IMO, is more ram!:up:

[Kraut]

I don't think it's a sound issue. I think your computer just can't keep up. I have a 2 year old computer that I've built from scratch as a gaming system, and with GWX it goes SLOOOOW. A lot of times when the computer can't keep up and freezes the sound starts looping or stops.

[sharkbit]

Is it an onboard sound card?

I believe it is seperate from the mother board, if what you mean by onboard sound card is an integral part of the motherboard.(Sorry, I'm not hugely computer literate-I've learned a ton in the last year or so. :oops: )

@Reece:
The only mod enabled prior to the many CTD's was Thomesen's Sound Pack.
I've learned to live with the CTD's after an hour or so. Occasionally, I can go 3-4 hours before the crash, but it is usually late at night and it forces me to go to bed and snuggle up with Mrs. Kaleun at 2am. ;) I generally don't have more than an hour or two to play at a time anyways, so the normal CTD's are just a fact of life to me and I have come to a grudging acceptance of them until we get a new/better computer in the distant future.

I upgraded to 1GB RAM a few months ago prior to getting GWX2.1. I think Mrs. Kaleun would have a hard time with me getting another 1GB of RAM right now. :cry:
I'd like to explore other options if there are any first.

Thanks for the replies guys. :)

[Paulverisor64]

I don't think it's a sound issue. I think your computer just can't keep up. I have a 2 year old computer that I've built from scratch as a gaming system, and with GWX it goes SLOOOOW. A lot of times when the computer can't keep up and freezes the sound starts looping or stops.

Kraut; I have the identical problem that you have. This is driving me bonkers because I should have more than enough power under the hood to run this game.

[Wolfehunter]

Is it an onboard sound card?

I believe it is seperate from the mother board, if what you mean by onboard sound card is an integral part of the motherboard.(Sorry, I'm not hugely computer literate-I've learned a ton in the last year or so. :oops: )

@Reece:
The only mod enabled prior to the many CTD's was Thomesen's Sound Pack.
I've learned to live with the CTD's after an hour or so. Occasionally, I can go 3-4 hours before the crash, but it is usually late at night and it forces me to go to bed and snuggle up with Mrs. Kaleun at 2am. ;) I generally don't have more than an hour or two to play at a time anyways, so the normal CTD's are just a fact of life to me and I have come to a grudging acceptance of them until we get a new/better computer in the distant future.

I upgraded to 1GB RAM a few months ago prior to getting GWX2.1. I think Mrs. Kaleun would have a hard time with me getting another 1GB of RAM right now. :cry:
I'd like to explore other options if there are any first.

Thanks for the replies guys. :)My computer is over 6 years old don't worry. Ram is your biggest issue but untill then here is a guide that can help you learn how to take control over your OS.

Also that site shows you how to tweak various games and programs to suite your needs.

http://www.tweakguides.com/TGTC.html

So read up dude and learn how to ration your resources.

Good luck dude.:up:

WH

[u_tommy]

Very unlikely a sound issue. Sure a sound card will take some of the strain that may be caused on the cpu by onboard sound... but i doubt it would affect these issues.

I'd think it was overheating....Give your rig a thorougher clean inside.. get a compressed air canister... clean all the fans... cpu, gfx & mobo, i bet that does the trick :up:

[nirwana]

I can confirm that overheating is the mainsource for ctds, loadingprobs etc. My old P4 was running with 98F due to the stresslv sh3/4 caused. The new gfxcard acted in the same way until i disabled smart fan and let it run with full throttle all the time.

[Wolfehunter]

Thats pretty hot dude. I find it odd that it heats up so much?

Once a year I do a major cleaning of my system to remove dust within the heat sinks and fans.

Also I have an open case which seems to help keep the temp down.

If you plan to clean your computer innerds then make sure the power is off and disconnect any power cable to the machine.

Ground yourself. If possible and if your confendent enough try to clean the contact between the CPU and heatsink. You can get the heatsink compount in most computer stores. You apply it on the heat sink once its clean. Their about a buck or two depending on the quality.

Goodluck.

WH

Oh last thing did you overclock you CPU. That adds to CTDs and extra heat.

[Reece]

Oh last thing did you overclock you CPU. That adds to CTDs and extra heat. Agreed! I used to work on main frame computers (Digital, ICL etc) back in the 80's, it was imperative that the rooms be kept between 23 & 25 degrees C, these machines, though monsters would run 24hrs a day, & had a life of 15years! Our PC's are much the same, the main problem is heat, and another is stopping and starting them, the IC's heat up the cool down, heat up then cool down, day in day out, this will reduce it's life to only a few years!:oops: The first thing I do when I get a new machine is replace the CPU & video card cooler with better quality ones, then after the PC has been on for awhile I carefully place the back of my little finger (first knuckle) on various IC's, if any are hot I purchase thermal adhesive heat sinks and place on them, also make sure that the box is well venilated, with usually the addition of extra fans (thermostatically controlled if possable), I also have a filter on the main case fan (5 1/2" high speed)!:yep:
Paranoid maybe, but I like to protect my investment, and I usually get many reliable years out of them!:up: Checkout this site: http://coolpc.com.au/catalog/

[Wolfehunter]

Oh last thing did you overclock you CPU. That adds to CTDs and extra heat. Agreed! I used to work on main frame computers (Digital, ICL etc) back in the 80's, it was imperative that the rooms be kept between 23 & 25 degrees C, these machines, though monsters would run 24hrs a day, & had a life of 15years! Our PC's are much the same, the main problem is heat, and another is stopping and starting them, the IC's heat up the cool down, heat up then cool down, day in day out, this will reduce it's life to only a few years!:oops: The first thing I do when I get a new machine is replace the CPU & video card cooler with better quality ones, then after the PC has been on for awhile I carefully place the back of my little finger (first knuckle) on various IC's, if any are hot I purchase thermal adhesive heat sinks and place on them, also make sure that the box is well venilated, with usually the addition of extra fans (thermostatically controlled if possable), I also have a filter on the main case fan (5 1/2" high speed)!:yep:
Paranoid maybe, but I like to protect my investment, and I usually get many reliable years out of them!:up: Checkout this site: http://coolpc.com.au/catalog/:up: Agreed!:yep: Also place the fans properly. There is an arrow indication on the fan case showing the wind direction. So you can place the fans correctly to give a circulation in the tower. I have the fans blowing air in from the front and exiting from the back.

Most important thing to keep your PC alive long is a very good powersupply. Many cheap $20 power supplies will fry your system when a storm hits, power spikes, bad lines etc. You can bet on it that the odds of you melting components is very high. I've seen it happen alot to clients. If anything you want to spend big bucks on is a very good high quality powersupply. Even without a powerbar a good PS can save you alot of headaches.

Here is a test program that can give you a guestimate on the size of the power supply you would need to properly operate your system. Also it helps you spend your money more wisely not going crazy with a 1000w PS.

http://extreme.outervision.com/index.jsp

Good luck dude.

[nirwana]

:-? There are still ppl out there who run their babies with the $1.25-$1.50 powersupplies they were equipped by the manufactors (i found those crap even in +$1500 highend gamersetups) ?? :doh:

[Reece]

Yes, trying to find a decent powersupply can be a problem, the symptoms can be very ranging often causing HDD errors and lockups, these seem to be the most common areas hit!:-? If I suspect any problems I check the +5v & +12v lines, if the +5v line drops below 4.75v you will have logic level problems & on the +12v line drops below 10.5v your HDD's, DVD drives etc will have problems coming on line, usually show up with a cold boot error! Also I use a CRO to check the power supply lines for induced frequency harmonics that a poor switchmode supply can induce, you would be surprised at the poor quality a lot of powersupplies on the market are!:doh:

[Wolfehunter]

Your right Reece. Many people overlook the powersupply as an important feature for a computer. Its alway about the power of the CPU or Video card or how much ram you need. What about the heart that runs it all? Need a good steady beat to keep it pumping. ;) Bad heart means, risk of stroke and a heart attack. Bad for the health and takes years off your system. :88)

[u_tommy]

true.. and you can tell its a good one because it cost 10 times what cheapest ones cost... but worth every penny! If i remember correctly i spent about £80 on my power supply.

[Kraut]

I would disable the 16km atmosphere. It might help a little.

[sharkbit]

Thanks for the help everyone! :)

I think I'm going to go down the cooling road.
I'm going to clean the case as has been suggested.

I have also noticed that the power supply fan is not running. I'm assuming that it should be. I'm going to replace the power supply with a more powerful unit.(Currently have a stock 250W. Will install a 300W.)

Also there is no case cooling fan installed. I'm going to install one.

Hopefully, these actions will help.
:)

[Redwine]

Onboard Sound cards are "resourses eaters"...

I solved in the past my FPS problems installing an X-Fi, and disabling my onboard one.

Good if you can add a PCI dedicated sonund card, you will save lot of CPU resources.

:up:

[Reise]

Do you have error reporting enable ?

If XP is automatically rebooting you, do this: Control Panel > System > Advanced > Startup & Recovery > Untick Automatically Restart. Doing this will tell you whether XP is at fault or whether Sh3 is at fault because you should get an error report following the failure of SH3 - thanks to danlisa for above post

Now see post below of SH3 error
Might be a fix for you problem :up:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=765771&postcount=7

[Kraut]

Also, something to keep in mind with power supplies is that wattage is energy consumption not energy output. So look at the 12V amp rating of the power supply. For that older system I'd look for something with at least 18 amps on the 12V rail.

Onboard Sound cards are "resourses eaters"...

I solved in the past my FPS problems installing an X-Fi, and disabling my onboard one.

Good if you can add a PCI dedicated sonund card, you will save lot of CPU resources.

:up:

I personally disagree with that. I benchmarked my computer with an Audigy 2 ZS and onboard audio. There was no difference in FPS. I ended up selling the card and I'm happy with onboard. On a modern computer I think the amount of processing power used for onboard audio versus a hardware sound card is very small.

[Wolfehunter]

Also, something to keep in mind with power supplies is that wattage is energy consumption not energy output. So look at the 12V amp rating of the power supply. For that older system I'd look for something with at least 18 amps on the 12V rail.

Onboard Sound cards are "resourses eaters"...

I solved in the past my FPS problems installing an X-Fi, and disabling my onboard one.

Good if you can add a PCI dedicated sonund card, you will save lot of CPU resources.

:up:

I personally disagree with that. I benchmarked my computer with an Audigy 2 ZS and onboard audio. There was no difference in FPS. I ended up selling the card and I'm happy with onboard. On a modern computer I think the amount of processing power used for onboard audio versus a hardware sound card is very small.

I have to disagree with you dude. Actually the X-fi hi end ones do save CPU and Ram as a resource. I have the X-fi Elite pro with 64meg of XRam fully juiced up. I've gained at least 15% more power from my system. Plus games sound truly awesome in a 5.1 Dolby system. I used to have a sound blaster Audigy 2 gamer and it was amazing but nothing like a X-Fi. The two are night and day different.

It really depend on the card your using and the Mother boards. Results may vary.

[u_tommy]

I personally disagree with that. I benchmarked my computer with an Audigy 2 ZS and onboard audio. There was no difference in FPS. I ended up selling the card and I'm happy with onboard. On a modern computer I think the amount of processing power used for onboard audio versus a hardware sound card is very small.

If your cpu has extra/lots of capacity.. i.e. is not running flat out you wont notice it.

However onboard sound does use the cpu to process it's processes and therefore does add strain on the system. Beside onboard sound sounds crap too :p

[Kraut]

Gain in performance and better sound? That's what Creative wants you to think. Because it really takes so much processing power to play .wav files that you need an add-on card. :roll:

[danlisa]

Apples & Oranges......

If your system is being taxed by a game like Modded SH3 and you are using MOBO sound then a 3rd Party Sound Card (with onboard processor) will help. It's between 5-10 FPS (in SH3) provided you remember to disable the MOBO sound in your BIOS.

Important Points:
Many Sound Cards DO NOT have dedicated processing. This will not help you.
Always disable the MOBO sound processing. If you don't your PC is still crunching the data even if you can't hear it.

[Redwine]

Apples & Oranges......

If your system is being taxed by a game like Modded SH3 and you are using MOBO sound then a 3rd Party Sound Card (with onboard processor) will help. It's between 5-10 FPS (in SH3) provided you remember to disable the MOBO sound in your BIOS. [quote]

It is true if you have a top end processor, and you use a low demand game, you will have lot of CPU resources free. Then the diference in FPS may be not too much.

But every day, games and simulators demand more CPU. And you never know when you can need your CPU>

In my old computer, a NothWood 3.4, with an ATI 800 XT PE, and 3Gb RAM, using the onboard sound card, in the most critical situations, explosions with particles at 100%, my FPS droops down at 3 FPS, when i normally have about 30 in external view on sea surface, and about 60 in control room.
After install an X-FI (with no dedicated RAM) in the most critical moment (bottle necks) the FPS nevers droops under 30, it is 10 times more in bottle necks, and having about 50/55 in external view overs sea surface, about 100 into control room if not remember bad.

Now i am using a Q6600, nVidia 8800 GT OC, and 2 GB RAM G-Skill 800, 4-4-4-12, i have no problems now even using the dense port trafic of UWAC 3.0, i can sail at port at good time compression.

But ...what in the future ? what with another games ?

Like X-Plane ?

Always is good to have not your CPU consumend if it is not necesary.

It is good to have the most quantity of resources of your CPU ready to use.


[quote=danlisa] Important Points:
Many Sound Cards DO NOT have dedicated processing. This will not help you.
Correct, you need one with own hardware processor, and if you can one with its own memory.

Always disable the MOBO sound processing. If you don't your PC is still crunching the data even if you can't hear it.
Yes... always disable in the bios the things you dont use.

:up::up::up:

[sharkbit]

Amazing what a little cleaning in the computer and an aid in cooling can do-
Blew out the dust and have been running with the side cover off and have logged about 10 hours of playing over the last 4 days without a single hiccup or CTD. :D
Life is good(although my wife might not think so :D ).

I installed a case fan yesterday evening and replaced the side cover. Played a short time with no problems, but not long enough for a real test. I'll see this weekend hopefully.
:)