The Arctic holds 90 billion barrels of oil

[SUBMAN1]

Interesting report.

http://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/2008/3049/fs2008-3049.pdf

-S

[STEED]

I knew that some years ago. :p :yep:

But heres the question, they only have a four month window before the weather closes in so is it worth it?

I suspect when your scraping the bottom of the barrel you got no choice, crap the greenies are going to have a fecking field day over this one.

[FIREWALL]

All I want to know is how I can steal all of it before the Government \ Oil Companies do. :p

[STEED]

All I want to know is how I can steal all of it before the Government \ Oil Companies do. :p

Buy the Arctic and put up a sign.......

TRESPASSER'S WILL BE SHOT & EATEN

[Diopos]

So now you know the real cause of global warming!
Burn oil
Raise the temperature
melt the ice cap
get more oil
with extras: no Arabs around! or on top!
conspiracy theory at its best! :yep:
or not! :huh:
:hmm:

[SUBMAN1]

So now you know the real cause of global warming!
Burn oil
Raise the temperature
melt the ice cap
get more oil
with extras: no Arabs around! or on top!
conspiracy theory at its best! :yep:
or not! :huh:
:hmm:Yeah, the Arabs would be cooked off the Middle East too! :)

-S

[Marriott]

everyday i see another article about someone claiming that there is "undiscovered" oil in the arctic and the media making a huge deal about it. But undiscovered means they havent found it. hmmmm i think i should claim 90 billion barrels of undiscovered oil is under my house and then let all the oil companies have a bidding war over who gets to pay me millions of dollars just to see if theres actually oil. i can dream can i?:sunny:

[SUBMAN1]

everyday i see another article about someone claiming that there is "undiscovered" oil in the arctic and the media making a huge deal about it. But undiscovered means they havent found it. hmmmm i think i should claim 90 billion barrels of undiscovered oil is under my house and then let all the oil companies have a bidding war over who gets to pay me millions of dollars just to see if theres actually oil. i can dream can i?:sunny:The geologists have already been over your land and discarded it! Not fit for exploration! :D

-S

[Zachstar]

Interesting report.

http://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/2008/3049/fs2008-3049.pdf

-S

Oh wow more oil! Just like in the Gulf!

So when do prices fall and then comes the "Welllllll It will take some years to get online"

See um you are a little late. You see truckers need this stuff called diesel ya. And if prices explode again well ya you get the point as transportation is the center of the economy.

[UnderseaLcpl]

All this is good for those of us in the rail transport industry! For years truckers have sabotaged our price-gouging policies by providing goods deliveries at a marginally higher cost and with much more convenience. Thanks to the government-energy complex we can now screw our customers with no fear of competition. I would just like to say thank you to all the environmentalists who made this possible by limiting the supply of crude oil and driving up demand. I woud also like to thank them for promoting ethanol. The ridiculous increase in the need for tank-car ethanol transport has been a blessing for those of us who love to take your money in exchange for a little peace of mind that one is "saving" the earth. Fortunately, we can still look forward to destruction of the environement by nations that don't give a damn whilst simultaneously ruining our economy via "green" policies.

Please continue your pathetic and laughable attempts to reverse problems that may not exist. No matter how clever you think you are, there are people with a vested interest in actually genrerating income that will always be smarter than you.

Sincerely,

The same industry you thought you beat with government anti-trust measures almost a century ago.

[DeepIron]

Well, it at least drilling for it will be easier once all the of Arctic ice has melted... :roll:

[Zachstar]

Well, it at least drilling for it will be easier once all the of Arctic ice has melted... :roll:

Yes and the many tons of Methane released from the permafrost can be used to power the equipment when it isn't adding to global climate change!

[Skybird]

90 billion (barrel of oil)
divided by
86 million (barrel global oil consummation per day)
makes
1046 (days of global consummation)
divided by 365 (days per year)
makes
2.87 (years).

assuming that India, China, america and all the others all of a sudden will stop to increase their thirst for oil, and the middle classes around the globe all of a sudden will stop to increase their demand for comfort and wealth.

What said that editorial here: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=140046 ?
It said:

"Republicans have become so obsessed with the notion that we can drill our way out of our current energy crisis that re-opening our coastal waters to offshore drilling has become their answer for every energy question.

Anyone who looks at the growth of middle classes around the world and their rising demands for natural resources, plus the dangers of climate change driven by our addiction to fossil fuels, can see that clean renewable energy — wind, solar, nuclear and stuff we haven’t yet invented — is going to be the next great global industry. It has to be if we are going to grow in a stable way.

Therefore, the country that most owns the clean power industry is going to most own the next great technology breakthrough — the E.T. revolution, the energy technology revolution — and create millions of jobs and thousands of new businesses, just like the I.T. revolution did.
Republicans, by mindlessly repeating their offshore-drilling mantra, focusing on a 19th-century fuel, remind me of someone back in 1980 arguing that we should be putting all our money into making more and cheaper IBM Selectric typewriters — and forget about these things called the “PC” and “the Internet.” It is a strategy for making America a second-rate power and economy."

One must not be any anti-american at all to see the common sense in that assessment.

Meanwhile in France, a car will launch for mass production early next year. It is driven by - pressured air, has a range of 100 km normally at a speed of 110 km/h max, and can increase the range by use of a small gas-driven compressor creating new pressured air while driving, and then gaining a top range of 800 km/h with one filling for the compressor (1.5 litres). Mass production starts next year, the vehicle is licensed for public traffic.

Made in France 21st century - not in America, 19th century style. Oil is not the future - it is the past.

[Zachstar]

I have serious doubts about this "Air Car" Tho I am trying to keep open minded about it. I have heard rumors about huge losses and large charge times equaling large power bill growth.


My bets are on Zenn and EEstor but we can only win if these two are competing against each other.

[SUBMAN1]

90 billion (barrel of oil)
divided by
86 million (barrel global oil consummation per day)
makes
1046 (days of global consummation)
divided by 365 (days per year)
makes
2.87 (years).

assuming that India, China, america and all the others all of a sudden will stop to increase their thirst for oil, and the middle classes around the globe all of a sudden will stop to increase their demand for comfort and wealth.

What said that editorial here: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=140046 ?
It said:

"Republicans have become so obsessed with the notion that we can drill our way out of our current energy crisis that re-opening our coastal waters to offshore drilling has become their answer for every energy question.

Anyone who looks at the growth of middle classes around the world and their rising demands for natural resources, plus the dangers of climate change driven by our addiction to fossil fuels, can see that clean renewable energy — wind, solar, nuclear and stuff we haven’t yet invented — is going to be the next great global industry. It has to be if we are going to grow in a stable way.

Therefore, the country that most owns the clean power industry is going to most own the next great technology breakthrough — the E.T. revolution, the energy technology revolution — and create millions of jobs and thousands of new businesses, just like the I.T. revolution did.
Republicans, by mindlessly repeating their offshore-drilling mantra, focusing on a 19th-century fuel, remind me of someone back in 1980 arguing that we should be putting all our money into making more and cheaper IBM Selectric typewriters — and forget about these things called the “PC” and “the Internet.” It is a strategy for making America a second-rate power and economy."

One must not be any anti-american at all to see the common sense in that assessment.

Meanwhile in France, a car will launch for mass production early next year. It is driven by - pressured air, has a range of 100 km normally at a speed of 110 km/h max, and can increase the range by use of a small gas-driven compressor creating new pressured air while driving, and then gaining a top range of 800 km/h with one filling for the compressor (1.5 litres). Mass production starts next year, the vehicle is licensed for public traffic.

Made in France 21st century - not in America, 19th century style. Oil is not the future - it is the past.
How is it that we cannot drill our way out of this energy crisis exactly? In America, we have it all at our fingertips. We have it all - more oil capability than in any other place on Earth - 300 years worth for us! So how can we not just start using some of our own resources to fix the problem exactly?

More smoke and mirrors from SB again.

-S

PS. All green energy is substandard at best, and pathtic in power generation at its worst. Nothing beats the good old hydrocarbon (besides nukes of course) - hence why we use it today. Nations that convert to this purely will get left behind.

[Zachstar]

Subman, mixing false statements with crap is not going to get you a win here. Just like the conspiricy crap about GW.

We can't drill our way out for 2 reasons. The exact 2 that has been shown why corn will not save us.

Time and Damage

Drilling in the gulf will take almost a decade at BEST to get something more than a tiny bit on the market. Yet repubs talk like it will save the world now. In that timespan the amount of gas hogs in china will grow greatly. So prices will not drop.

Also oil is mostly dead algae from LONG ago. Trapped CO2 that needs to stay trapped. Getting it out to play will only cause more damage in the future that will continue to eat into disaster reserves. (Note with Corn the damage comes from vastly increased food prices)

You are not going to drill out of this. In 10 years we will have something better anyway. If it be Full spectrum thin film solar, Cheap Wind, or Bussard Fusion.

[Skybird]

I have serious doubts about this "Air Car" Tho I am trying to keep open minded about it. I have heard rumors about huge losses and large charge times equaling large power bill growth.


My bets are on Zenn and EEstor but we can only win if these two are competing against each other.

Search youtube for "Guy Negre", that is the engineer. The material there is not the short report I saw ion German TV today, and the car on Tv looked more ugly, but it is the same inventor. Data varies. One tankload of compressed air is either 100km in rnage, or 200 km, or 200 miles. Tanking air lasts 3-5 minutes, costinging you around 1.50 Euros or 1.50 Dollars (the energy needed to compressor the air) - depends on wether you watch CNN or BBC. costs one year ago were said to be 15.000 bucks, today are projected to be around 3500-5000 bucks.

The car is not an electric car - it does not get charged as you said.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ov4t1P9bdGw&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztFDqcu8oJ4&feature=related

Negre is heavily supported by financial investors. The cars are to go into mass production next year.

[Zachstar]

The term charge is not limited to electric.

I will take a look. It is about time I got updated on it anyway. (Before ZENN kicks its ass)

[Skybird]

The term charge is not limited to electric.

My fault - not my native language. ;) anyway, they say it takes minutes only.

[Zachstar]

I just watched those videos but the 2nd one is rather.. Weird. Which explains the username who uploaded it. You do no favors posting it...

Onboard air generator powered by air to make air to run the car forever? Give me a break!

Anyway I don't think the inventor is making such a stupid claim so ok...

The car looks sound tho for most Americans the Hybrid version will be needed, Tho it seems to be able to go long distances on a single tank of gas so it aint THAT bad.

Overall it seems sound but I question the performance. ZENN with its EEstor battery which is also going to be used for military applications seems much more "likely" with its performance claims.

But to get back on topic with this. Note Subman how tech currently in development is undermining the need for oil. We need our investments in these bits of tech to Beat China or otherwise China will suck down every drop of oil not from our borders.

You aren't going to beat a hyper growing economy like china by drilling for more oil.

[Zachstar]

Ok now that I have done more research I can't say I am too impressed with the progress of this Compressed Air Car.

It seems the project has been off and on for a long time.

It seems the car has been delayed by almost a decade now. Will it beat Duke Nukem? And it seems the best we in the US can hope for is to get orders in by 2010.

It seems that there is about to be a legal battle by two companies.

I had to actually look around to find news. And the newest news item seems to be a clip of the car on MSNBC months ago.

Etc...

Now investing in this sure as hell beats drilling for more oil when you got a large car company supporting it. But I think I will remain a skeptic on it for now.

EEstor technology has better applications. Has the ability to be used in a greater abount of cars initially. Can replace the heavy battery packs on hybrids. Etc...

Also I think EEstor is going to be better for the environment overall. Because when people start converting there is going to be more pressure on Coal plants. And id rather "Sponge" up the electrons than do some conversion which likely has quite a bit in losses.

[SUBMAN1]

Subman, mixing false statements with crap is not going to get you a win here. Just like the conspiricy crap about GW.

We can't drill our way out for 2 reasons. The exact 2 that has been shown why corn will not save us.

Time and Damage

Drilling in the gulf will take almost a decade at BEST to get something more than a tiny bit on the market. Yet repubs talk like it will save the world now. In that timespan the amount of gas hogs in china will grow greatly. So prices will not drop.

Also oil is mostly dead algae from LONG ago. Trapped CO2 that needs to stay trapped. Getting it out to play will only cause more damage in the future that will continue to eat into disaster reserves. (Note with Corn the damage comes from vastly increased food prices)

You are not going to drill out of this. In 10 years we will have something better anyway. If it be Full spectrum thin film solar, Cheap Wind, or Bussard Fusion.
Hahahaha! Not even going to answer this! It shows your ignorance.

-S

PS. Search these things before you bother to reply:

Oil Shale

Tar Sands

Gulf Oil

Pacific Oil

Atlantic Oil

Coal to Oil

ANWR

All of these add up to 300 years in our own backyard.

[Zachstar]

Just you saying Coal to Oil ought to raise many red flags. Do you have ANY idea how nasty that process is?

Then again you don't believe in man influenced GW either so you are not on any solid ground to assume my knowledge.

300 years at what cost? 20 dollars a gal? 50? 100?

China is not going to stop and say "We are sorry for growing" People growing up are not going say "screw it" to driving.

Those things are little more than dollar signs to big oil. No thanks.

[SUBMAN1]

Just you saying Coal to Oil ought to raise many red flags. Do you have ANY idea how nasty that process is?

300 years at what cost? 20 dollars a gal? 50? 100?

China is not going to stop and say "We are sorry for growing" People growing up are not going say "screw it" to driving.

Those things are little more than dollar signs to big oil. No thanks.Try $25 for a 55 gallon barrel, with less pollution than converting normal oil to gas.

-S

[Zachstar]

Just you saying Coal to Oil ought to raise many red flags. Do you have ANY idea how nasty that process is?

300 years at what cost? 20 dollars a gal? 50? 100?

China is not going to stop and say "We are sorry for growing" People growing up are not going say "screw it" to driving.

Those things are little more than dollar signs to big oil. No thanks.Try $25 for a 55 gallon barrel, with less pollution than converting normal oil to gas.

-S

*Yawn*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NC8OhWBwDqE

[Frame57]

I agree with Subman on most of this, but i heard that we could have 1000 years of resources if we would just go get it. heard it on the Savage radio show.

[Zachstar]

I agree with Subman on most of this, but i heard that we could have 1000 years of resources if we would just go get it. heard it on the Savage radio show.
Ah Savage!

http://www.cleveland.com/tv/index.ssf/2008/07/independencebased_whk_drops_ra.html

The talk-show host last week described autism as a racket and said 99 percent of autistic children needed fathers to tell them to stop acting "like a moron."
....
Savage, who claims more than 8 million listeners a week, later posted a message on his Web site saying greedy doctors and drug companies were overdiagnosing autism.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/harold-pollack/slaying-himself-with-the_b_115873.html

I'll tell you what autism is. In 99 percent of the cases, it's a brat who hasn't been told to cut the act out. That's what autism is. What do you mean they scream and they're silent? They don't have a father around to tell them, 'Don't act like a moron. You'll get nowhere in life. Stop acting like a putz. Straighten up. Act like a man. Don't sit there crying and screaming, idiot.'

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/07/28/BAOU120FGO.DTL

"Michael Savage's remarks were hurtful to the safety and the well-being of vulnerable children and we want him off the air," said Evelyn Ain, president of Autism United in Long Island, whose 8-year-old son has autism. "If this (KNEW) and other radio stations don't stop carrying Savage's signal, then we will pursue every advertiser until they drop him."

[Zachstar]

To get back on topic a little bit. I have some good news.

http://media.cleantech.com/3174/eestors-weir-speaks-about-ultracapacitor-milestone

Richard Weir, president and CEO of EEStor, told the Cleantech Group his company's certification announcement is significant.
"It certainly allows us to meet present specifications and major advances in energy storage in the future," he said. "It'll meet the voltage, we say that, it'll meet the polarization, saturation, we say that."
EEStor is developing an ultracapacitor which it said will be longer lasting, lighter, more powerful, and more environmentally friendly than current battery technologies.


So the bull**** about "Clean-Coal" "300 year oil" or whatever is unneeded. The rest of the world is moving on. And the coal companies can spend the extra profits as plants go to near 100 percent at night to charge the Car Batteries to invest in Full Spectrum Solar, Solar Heat, Fusion, or wind. Or fail to adapt and fail as a buisness.

[Skybird]

Ok now that I have done more research I can't say I am too impressed with the progress of this Compressed Air Car.

It seems the project has been off and on for a long time.

It seems the car has been delayed by almost a decade now. Will it beat Duke Nukem? And it seems the best we in the US can hope for is to get orders in by 2010.

It seems that there is about to be a legal battle by two companies.

I had to actually look around to find news. And the newest news item seems to be a clip of the car on MSNBC months ago.

Etc...

Now investing in this sure as hell beats drilling for more oil when you got a large car company supporting it. But I think I will remain a skeptic on it for now.

EEstor technology has better applications. Has the ability to be used in a greater abount of cars initially. Can replace the heavy battery packs on hybrids. Etc...

Also I think EEstor is going to be better for the environment overall. Because when people start converting there is going to be more pressure on Coal plants. And id rather "Sponge" up the electrons than do some conversion which likely has quite a bit in losses.

I once again must point at German TV news yesterday. It is father and son, working on it since 14 years and having solid finacial support by inverstors, and the car now finished for serial productioin which is set to begin next year. 14 years for a new technology like this is not much. Also if they are ready for mass production already now, it means that nobody is as far with his homework like they are, or is too dumb to release it now. And the final price is a killer. Note the two videos I linked up are one year old.

However, I do not want to talk you into buying one. ;) And once again, it is no electrically driven car. Battery sizes are not an issue here. the pressured air drives the pistons in the engine directly.

Also remember that this is just a first design, the model T of new ET-optimised cars. The future will bring even more improvements of it, more HP, and even greater range. I would say 800 km by use of onboard compressor already now is totally acceptable. There are gasoline-driven cars don'T reaching that far.

[Skybird]

I agree with Subman on most of this, but i heard that we could have 1000 years of resources if we would just go get it. heard it on the Savage radio show.
Ah Savage!

http://www.cleveland.com/tv/index.ssf/2008/07/independencebased_whk_drops_ra.html

The talk-show host last week described autism as a racket and said 99 percent of autistic children needed fathers to tell them to stop acting "like a moron."
....
Savage, who claims more than 8 million listeners a week, later posted a message on his Web site saying greedy doctors and drug companies were overdiagnosing autism.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/harold-pollack/slaying-himself-with-the_b_115873.html

I'll tell you what autism is. In 99 percent of the cases, it's a brat who hasn't been told to cut the act out. That's what autism is. What do you mean they scream and they're silent? They don't have a father around to tell them, 'Don't act like a moron. You'll get nowhere in life. Stop acting like a putz. Straighten up. Act like a man. Don't sit there crying and screaming, idiot.'

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/07/28/BAOU120FGO.DTL

"Michael Savage's remarks were hurtful to the safety and the well-being of vulnerable children and we want him off the air," said Evelyn Ain, president of Autism United in Long Island, whose 8-year-old son has autism. "If this (KNEW) and other radio stations don't stop carrying Savage's signal, then we will pursue every advertiser until they drop him."

That Savage guy must be a totally incompetent idiot if he is ventilating the compressed air from his brain this way. Disgusting.

Frame, you must not believe everything you've heared. ;)

[SUBMAN1]

*Yawn*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NC8OhWBwDqEThat has got to be the dumbest most uneducated video I have seen in a long time that tries to bill itself as serious.

I banks on the fallacy of greenhouse gases too. *YAWN!!!*

Do you still believe in that???

South America already does this! And they can make it with nearly 0 CO2 if you really care or need to do that. CO2 is a good thing, not a bad thing! Crazy.

-S

PS. Isn't that the Sierra club that made that thing? That explains everything. Radical environmentalists too.

PPS. Tracing this down, they are involved with terrorists environmantalists, like greenpeace. Nice! Came from Green TV in case you care.

[Zachstar]

The Model T was actually a pretty good car even by today's standards with 13-21 MPG

Also there is the problem with the "SUV" factor of these cars. Despite the fact that these tanks split rather than explode. People will still fear that they will "blow up"

I think all and all its a good "Wait & See" but I do not want to invest in it with these delays and problems. And I intend to own a CityZenn in 2009 rather than still be hoping to get one of these in 2010.

I see EEstor as a world changing technology. It's proliferation will encourage the marketing of the means to charge it without relying on coal plants and already maxed out Nuc plants.

Will this change the world? Maybe, But for US market you NEED the large amount of range so getting an aux motor will almost be a requirement. India? UK? Not so much... If it works I will sing its praises for giving the poor a chance to have rides that are better for the environment. However, I remain a skeptic.

[Zachstar]

Subman if you want to be a dino and live in the past that is your choice. However, The rest of the world has moved on.

Do you like have an evil twin that posts on the DU forums total BS about Nucs even tho most everyone else has moved on to accepting that they are needed for now? I swear he has your exact posting style. He even posts conspiricy crap.

Still over there thinking GW is a conspiricy and that people need to "wake up" to clean coal and coal 2 oil?

Have a look around subman. The dinos are losing. People are frakking sick of the lies from the big oil industry keeping us from developing alt energy which could have diverted this crisis.

It is time to move on nobody is buying that BS about Clean Coal 2 Oil except those who have little education or those who have gotten obsessed over their party or political slant.

The so called idea that the Majority of America is in love with offshore drilling is falling apart BTW.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baIwSYpUCWs

[SUBMAN1]

Subman if you want to be a dino and live in the past that is your choice. However, The rest of the world has moved on.

Do you like have an evil twin that posts on the DU forums total BS about Nucs even tho most everyone else has moved on to accepting that they are needed for now? I swear he has your exact posting style. He even posts conspiricy crap.

Still over there thinking GW is a conspiricy and that people need to "wake up" to clean coal and coal 2 oil?

Have a look around subman. The dinos are losing. People are frakking sick of the lies from the big oil industry keeping us from developing alt energy which could have diverted this crisis.

It is time to move on nobody is buying that BS about Clean Coal 2 Oil except those who have little education or those who have gotten obsessed over their party or political slant.

The so called idea that the Majority of America is in love with offshore drilling is falling apart BTW.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baIwSYpUCWsMore stupid videos?

FYI - the majority of America does no think like you. you are in the minority, and thats a good thing. We wouldn't even have a car right now if we thought like you. At least the world gets this right!

-S

[Zachstar]

Subman just to knock it in real good.

90 billion (barrel of oil)
divided by
86 million (barrel global oil consummation per day)
makes
1046 (days of global consummation)
divided by 365 (days per year)
makes
2.87 (years).


That is CURRENT use!

How long will it take to get it online with any kind of production worth it? 5-10 years!

YOU ARE NOT GOING TO DRILL OUT OF THIS!! PERIOD!!!

Sorry for the caps. Just wanted that to be bold and clear.

As for coal. No worries your precious coal will be burned anyway because we idiotically avoided major PV or Wind work for decades. And it is much better burned at the power station with its strict emissions control and possibility of scrubbers than in the tank of a car.

Have you ever heard of the saying that for now on we would have to discover and develop a new Sudi every decade to keep this flow going? Develop! How easily one forgets the costs and schedules to develop a field.

No amount of flag waving or democrat bashing will change this. It's OVER!

[Zachstar]

Subman if you want to be a dino and live in the past that is your choice. However, The rest of the world has moved on.

Do you like have an evil twin that posts on the DU forums total BS about Nucs even tho most everyone else has moved on to accepting that they are needed for now? I swear he has your exact posting style. He even posts conspiricy crap.

Still over there thinking GW is a conspiricy and that people need to "wake up" to clean coal and coal 2 oil?

Have a look around subman. The dinos are losing. People are frakking sick of the lies from the big oil industry keeping us from developing alt energy which could have diverted this crisis.

It is time to move on nobody is buying that BS about Clean Coal 2 Oil except those who have little education or those who have gotten obsessed over their party or political slant.

The so called idea that the Majority of America is in love with offshore drilling is falling apart BTW.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baIwSYpUCWsMore stupid videos?

FYI - the majority of America does no think like you. you are in the minority, and thats a good thing. We wouldn't even have a car right now if we thought like you. At least the world gets this right!

-S

What on earth are you talking about? If the rest of the world thought like me we would all be running around if EVs by now and farms replaced with Hydroponics.

Watch that video again Subman. You might be surprised.

[SUBMAN1]

What on earth are you talking about? If the rest of the world thought like me we would all be running around if EVs by now and farms replaced with Hydroponics.

Watch that video again Subman. You might be surprised.I don't have time for it man. Propoganda videos for the people that want to be told how to think - sorry.

I'm convinced if all Gore said you need to die tomorrow, you'd probably follow his orders and kill yourself. :D You spew whatever they tell you. I see things from both a scientific perspective like they teach you in college (I wouldn't have be allowed to pass some classes without understanding scientific process) and a grain of salt from both sides. You have been fed a pile of goo and you never bothered to check out the back up data, from temp increases on a steady scale to icebergs melting before the use of hydrocarbons, and the rate of melting hasn't been changed before nor after hydrocarbon use! Sorry, I'm coming down on you and I will stop.

The short point - please quit spewing other people lies and actually look at the data for once. Why don't you even use Al Gore's data to work with? If you take Al Gore's 'own' charts and put them together, even these show the icebergs and warming started prior to hydrocarbon use!!! Its funny to see even! :D

Anyway, I don't have time to hold your hand on this one. You must figure it out for yourself.

-S

[Frame57]

I agree with Subman on most of this, but i heard that we could have 1000 years of resources if we would just go get it. heard it on the Savage radio show.
Ah Savage!

http://www.cleveland.com/tv/index.ssf/2008/07/independencebased_whk_drops_ra.html

The talk-show host last week described autism as a racket and said 99 percent of autistic children needed fathers to tell them to stop acting "like a moron."
....
Savage, who claims more than 8 million listeners a week, later posted a message on his Web site saying greedy doctors and drug companies were overdiagnosing autism.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/harold-pollack/slaying-himself-with-the_b_115873.html

I'll tell you what autism is. In 99 percent of the cases, it's a brat who hasn't been told to cut the act out. That's what autism is. What do you mean they scream and they're silent? They don't have a father around to tell them, 'Don't act like a moron. You'll get nowhere in life. Stop acting like a putz. Straighten up. Act like a man. Don't sit there crying and screaming, idiot.'

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/07/28/BAOU120FGO.DTL

"Michael Savage's remarks were hurtful to the safety and the well-being of vulnerable children and we want him off the air," said Evelyn Ain, president of Autism United in Long Island, whose 8-year-old son has autism. "If this (KNEW) and other radio stations don't stop carrying Savage's signal, then we will pursue every advertiser until they drop him."

That Savage guy must be a totally incompetent idiot if he is ventilating the compressed air from his brain this way. Disgusting.

Frame, you must not believe everything you've heared. ;)Read it for yourself at michaelsavage.com

[SUBMAN1]

Read it for yourself at michaelsavage.comI personally don't think there is a 1000 years there, but we may have more than 300 years if the latest ANWR data turns out to be correct. There is apparently a Saudi Arabia worth up there. This doesn't surprise me with all the data coming in from the Arctic lately either.

-S

[Zachstar]

What on earth are you talking about? If the rest of the world thought like me we would all be running around if EVs by now and farms replaced with Hydroponics.

Watch that video again Subman. You might be surprised.I don't have time for it man. Propoganda videos for the people that want to be told how to think - sorry.

I'm convinced if all Gore said you need to die tomorrow, you'd probably follow his orders and kill yourself. :D You spew whatever they tell you. I see things from both a scientific perspective like they teach you in college (I wouldn't have be allowed to pass some classes without understanding scientific process) and a grain of salt from both sides. You have been fed a pile of goo and you never bothered to check out the back up data, from temp increases on a steady scale to icebergs melting before the use of hydrocarbons, and the rate of melting hasn't been changed before nor after hydrocarbon use! Sorry, I'm coming down on you and I will stop.

The short point - please quit spewing other people lies and actually look at the data for once. Why don't you even use Al Gore's data to work with? If you take Al Gore's 'own' charts and put them together, even these show the icebergs and warming started prior to hydrocarbon use!!! Its funny to see even! :D

Anyway, I don't have time to hold your hand on this one. You must figure it out for yourself.

-S

Wow subman you got me all figured out don't ya. Just like Alex Jones followers supposedly did. I was nothing but a person spewing crap from the US gov like say the moon landings were real and The pentagon was not hit by a missile.

It is the same damn thing. I don't believe the fairy tales from the oil companies so that makes me some kind of Al Gore lover. Some kind of ManBearPig believer or something.

Not going to fly SubMan. Because you see people are discovering that the good stuff like say EEstor, PV, Wind, etc.. Is cheaper and god forbid FASTER and heavens forbid more profitable to US than your little Magic Oil and Coal Company enriching 300 year oil and coal. And guess what also? More than likely Obama will be elected and Congress will reject that crap! Who would have thought that!? (Too bad Obama is an A-hole on many other issues but that is outside this topic)

The ship is sinking subman. The alternatives are the future. Solutions are the future. Drill Drill Drill is falling into the past like the idea that GW is false or not man influenced. Or that 9/11 was some inside job. Or the moon landings were fake.

[Frame57]

Moon landings? When did that happen?

[Zachstar]

Read it for yourself at michaelsavage.comI personally don't think there is a 1000 years there, but we may have more than 300 years if the latest ANWR data turns out to be correct. There is apparently a Saudi Arabia worth up there. This doesn't surprise me with all the data coming in from the Arctic lately either.

-S

Got a bridge I want to sell you Subman..

[SUBMAN1]

Read it for yourself at michaelsavage.comI personally don't think there is a 1000 years there, but we may have more than 300 years if the latest ANWR data turns out to be correct. There is apparently a Saudi Arabia worth up there. This doesn't surprise me with all the data coming in from the Arctic lately either.

-S
Got a bridge I want to sell you Subman..Well we know you are good at spewing other peoples lies, so I'm sure you do since its someone elses bridge! :D

-S

[Zachstar]

Moon landings? When did that happen?

1969 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_11

[Zachstar]

Read it for yourself at michaelsavage.comI personally don't think there is a 1000 years there, but we may have more than 300 years if the latest ANWR data turns out to be correct. There is apparently a Saudi Arabia worth up there. This doesn't surprise me with all the data coming in from the Arctic lately either.

-S
Got a bridge I want to sell you Subman..Well we know you are good at spewing other peoples lies, so I'm sure you do since its someone elses bridge! :D

-S
Spewing other peoples lies? Funny, I don't remember saying Man Influenced Global Warming was a lie or a conspiricy. Please refresh me on that one.

You say there is 300 years and a Saudi up there. So why are prices so high when we are tapping into much more than a Saudi now? When the Model T came out in 1908 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Model_T

Why are oil prices not 20 USD? Where is your Magic Oil Subman?

[baggygreen]

I once again must point at German TV news yesterday. It is father and son, working on it since 14 years and having solid finacial support by inverstors, and the car now finished for serial productioin which is set to begin next year. 14 years for a new technology like this is not much. Also if they are ready for mass production already now, it means that nobody is as far with his homework like they are, or is too dumb to release it now. And the final price is a killer. Note the two videos I linked up are one year old.

Are you referring to the "loremo" car, or another vehicle??

[SUBMAN1]

Spewing other peoples lies? Funny, I don't remember saying Man Influenced Global Warming was a lie or a conspiricy. Please refresh me on that one.

You say there is 300 years and a Saudi up there. So why are prices so high when we are tapping into much more than a Saudi now? When the Model T came out in 1908 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Model_T

Why are oil prices not 20 USD? Where is your Magic Oil Subman?Ask the tree huggers. Maybe you should ask yourself! :D

Yawn.

Research the things I told you to research so that we can have an intelligent conversation. Until then... :know:

-S

[Zachstar]

Until you decide to stop posting libel perhaps?

People are Obviously not caring too much about this as they have things called lives they have to worry about outside of sucking the you know whats of oil companies or conspiricy theorists. Or worrying about outright fantasies of energy riches. Good thing too as we will soon start seeing EEstor units on the road. A start on the large and reasonable path towards energy independence and the shutting down of terrorist supporting oil. A REAL way to get off the tit of blood oil.

[Enigma]

Don't feed the super spam robo trolls......

[Tchocky]

Well, this Arctic oil will be very difficult to get. If only there was a way of getting rid of the ice.

[SUBMAN1]

Well, this Arctic oil will be very difficult to get. If only there was a way of getting rid of the ice.Some people seem to think driving SUV's will fix that problem! :D Too bad they are not corect. Mother Nature will probably do it for us though. We are still below average on the 3000 year temp cycle.

-S

[Skybird]

Well, this Arctic oil will be very difficult to get. If only there was a way of getting rid of the ice.Give it a couple of decades or one or two centuries, and it will have taken care of that problem all by itself. ;)